BS: How shall we use the first time machine

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: bobad
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 10:09 AM

Maybe water was involved:

"A new radar that's measured ice deposits on Mars indicates that there's enough frozen water there to cover the entire planet to a depth of about 11 metres."

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2007/s1874092.htm

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 10:19 AM

There is evidence of collosal floods of water rushing across the surface of Mars all at once.

Imagine most of Mars oceans dragged into space and eventually raining down as ice on Earth. Jeez it'd be enough to rain for 40 days and nights.

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 10:20 AM

I wonder if they used the bistatic radar method by which we* demonstrated the presence of water ice in the craters at the Lunar south polar region?



* I was Data Manager on the Clementine program, in the late 1980's.

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 10:26 AM

WOW

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Scrump
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 10:31 AM

The thing that worries me about it is, if it breaks down, who do you call?

If you travel into the past, you won't have any cover, and if you go too far into the future, it will be out of warranty, and not supported any more - they'll just try to sell you another one.

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Desdemona
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 10:34 AM

This is something I've thought about a lot since I was a little kid, it's such a compelling idea. I particularly recall being very taken with Daphne Du Maurier's novel "The House on the Strand". As a medieval/early-modernist, I'd definitely want to have an up close and personal look at England from the 11th through the 17th centuries ...I'd almost certainly find that everything we learn about Middle English pronunciation is complete bollocks, ditto for the Early Modern period! I imagine I'd take a number of trips of varying duration (especially if I wound up in a plague year!), and keep a tight hold on my return ticket!

Fun to think about...

~D

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Bee
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 10:53 AM

One of my favourite books as a child was a thin volume called The Fog People, about a child summering on the shore (of Maine, I think) who makes friends with people in a nearby foggy coastal village, eventually discovering that she can only visit them when it is foggy, and that they only existed in the past.

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 10:53 AM

OK, I misremembered- ( or was it the time machine?) Clementine was the mid 90's- RME was the late 80's, followed by LACE... Too much data...



News Release
Tuesday, December 3, 1996
Subject: Clementine Spacecraft Program


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


MEMORANDUM FOR CORRESPONDENTS

After interpreting data and pictures taken during the Clementine spacecraft mission, a joint Department of Defense and NASA program, scientists reveal that deposits of ice could exist in permanently dark regions near the south pole of the Moon. Initial estimates suggest that the ice deposit area is the size of a small lake (60-120 thousand cubic meters), comparable to four football fields 16 feet deep. The ice is suggested to be in a lunar crater which has a depth of one-and-a-half times than the height of Mount Everest with a the rim circumference twice the size the island of Puerto Rico.

Originally sponsored by The Ballistic Missile Defense Organization the Clementine mission was designed to test new technology that would track and intercept hostile missiles, using celestial bodies such as the Moon. Clementine made history on January 25, 1994, by being launched in half the time at a quarter of the cost of other comparable satellites. Several advanced lightweight cameras onboard Clementine recorded approximately 1.5 million images of over 99.9 percent of the Moon's surface, including laser radar measurements which produced a topographical map of the lunar surface.

The discovery of ice on the Moon has enormous implications for a permanent human return to the Moon. Water ice is made up of hydrogen and oxygen, two elements vital to human life and space operations. Lunar ice could be mined and disassociated into hydrogen and oxygen by electric power provided by solar panels or a nuclear generator. This hydrogen and oxygen is a prime rocket fuel, giving the space program the ability to re-fuel rockets at a lunar "filling station" and making transport to and from the Moon more economical by at least a factor of ten. Additionally, the water from lunar polar ice and oxygen generated from the ice could support a permanent facility or outpost on the Moon. The discovery of this material, rare on the Moon but so vital to human life and operations in space, will make human expansion into the Solar System easier and reaffirms the immense value of the Earth's Moon as the stepping stone into the universe.

The Clementine mission was sponsored and managed by the BMDO. The satellite was designed and integrated by the Naval Research Laboratory and the sensor instruments were integrated by the Lawrence Livermore Laboratory. The science team was sponsored by NASA who also provided the Deep Space Network of antennas to receive Clementine's image transmissions to the Earth. Clementine was launched aboard a Titan II missile from Vandenberg Air Force Base, Calif.

- END -

http://www.silvereng.com/dspse.htm

http://www.pxi.com/clementine/index.html


http://www.pxi.com/clementine/image_gallery/JPEG/Moon_Mosaic.JPEG

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: John Hardly
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 11:01 AM

"(Nothing at all greedy about you, JH. :) Just think: That dampness in that cave has been saturating those instruments all these years... Poor guy."

Heck, I'd play the instruments for the poor. Heck, I'll play for anyone who can afford a ticket.

Actually, in the right spot in most caves, the instruments would probably fare pretty well. Better that dried out in some attic.

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 11:10 AM

Georgian Silver,
I would argue that in our 3 dimensional space, cars, trains and planes are in essence a time machine, saving us time etc.
Indeed high velocity does change the time in a relative way and extreme velocity changes time a lot.

BUT imagine a lifeform who has mastery of 4 dimensional space and can travel in 4 dimensional vehicles that can locally warp space time and hop to a place time rather than push through space in a linear line.

With such technology things like fences, prison cells and safes would serve no purpose. You could hop in and out at will.

A society with such technology would have to be ethicly advanced to use it respondsibly.

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 11:17 AM

"A society with such technology would have to be ethicly advanced to use it respondsibly."


Yes, but that does not imply that a society that has that capability is using it responsibly, only that if it WAS using it responsibly, that society would be ethically advanced.

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Scrump
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 12:00 PM

Actually, in the right spot in most caves, the instruments would probably fare pretty well. Better that dried out in some attic

You'd need to make sure the cave was woodworm-proof, or you come back and find a pile of rusting strings and machine heads :-)

Why not follow my advice, win the lottery and buy all the instruments you want?

And all the beer you want, all the (insert your favourite item here) you want...

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 12:08 PM

So many options. So much time.

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 12:10 PM

lol

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: The Walrus
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 12:46 PM

GUEST, Grimmy

"...I'd go back to 1 second before the Big Bang - what a show!..."

If you did that, it's possible that you would cause the Big Bang.!

W

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Skivee
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 03:00 PM

POOF*-Don't Do It!!! You'll be cayught in an reflexsive causality loop and-*POOF

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Skivee
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 03:00 PM

POOF*-Don't Do It!!! You'll be cayught in an reflexsive causality loop and-*POOF

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Skivee
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 03:01 PM

POOF*-Don't Do It!!! You'll be caught in an reflexsive causality loop and-*POOF

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Skivee
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 03:02 PM

POOF*-Dan't Doe It!!! You'll be cryught in an reflexsive carusality loope and-*POOF

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Skivee
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 03:03 PM

POOF*-Doen't Doe It!!! You'll be crayught in an reflexsive causality loope and realitoy will bebegine toe change*POOF

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Skivee
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 03:04 PM

POOF*POP*POOF

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Skivee
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 03:07 PM

Wow, that was weird. I thought I would never get out of tha*POOF*

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Mooh
Date: 17 Mar 07 - 09:22 AM

Sure could solve crimes, win lotteries, and for me, take my foot out of my mouth before the fact.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: GUEST,Seiri Omaar
Date: 17 Mar 07 - 09:58 AM

I'd like to go back a few hundred years and listen to some musicians in the highlands of Scotland. Oh, the music!

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: GUEST,jOhn
Date: 17 Mar 07 - 11:08 AM

I would go back to dinosaur times, and eat a few, and see waht they taste like.

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Mar 07 - 11:19 AM

"eat a few", huh? Maybe you could write a cookbook.

"build a bonfire in a pit 80X100....spit dinosaur on trunk of tree....roast for 3.5 days...."

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Becca72
Date: 17 Mar 07 - 11:27 AM

I'd teach the Eloi how to fight back...

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 06:48 AM

Three things that I would like to do (I'm assuming here that having arrived in a certain year I can stay for a couple of years and travel about a bit). I would like to:

- See the countryside of my native part of Eastern England, just before it was enclosed (early 19th century). Perhaps I might meet the poet John Clare as a child/teenager. He was to go on to record the effects of enclosure on the countryside around his native village of Helpston.

- Go on a botanical ramble (c. 1820s to 1850s) with some of the Working Class botanists of South Lancashire. I would particularly like to meet Richard Buxton, a botanist and impoverished shoemaker from the Ancoats district of Manchester.

- Go on a folk song collecting expedition with one of the great Edwardian collectors. I suppose if I had to choose it would be with Cecil Sharp in Somerset. But, oh to be with Vaughan Williams and to meet and hear sing Henry Burstow, Charles Potipher, Harriet Verral, James Carter etc., etc., etc.!

It's not going to happen - but thanks, Donuel for giving me the opportunity to dream!

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 08:04 PM

Bill D, IT tastes like chicken with a whisper of fish.

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Grimmy
Date: 19 Mar 07 - 10:44 AM

"GUEST, Grimmy

"...I'd go back to 1 second before the Big Bang - what a show!..."

If you did that, it's possible that you would cause the Big Bang.!

W"


Hey W, what if I prevented the Big Bang?

(I'm trying to get my head round the implications of that one)

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: The Walrus
Date: 19 Mar 07 - 09:02 PM

"...Hey W, what if I prevented the Big Bang?..."

Now that's the ULTIMATE Grandfather paradox !

W

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Mar 07 - 09:13 PM

I'd like to be bombadier under Captain Jimmy Stewart and guide our B-24 over Duseldorf to the exact spot where Prescott Bush* was inspecting his German ammunition factory...and release the bombs.

*W's Grandfather.

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Scrump
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 10:13 AM

I'd go back in time to before when this thread was started, and then start it myself, just to wind up Donuel :-)

Then I'd probably go back to the 1960s and buy up the entire stock of Dobell's records in Charing Cross Road, London, England, and then come back to the present time and flog them all on ebay, and live happily ever after on the proceeds :-)

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 11:35 AM

please delete this thread

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Scrump
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 05:24 PM

Like a twist on the genie's 3 wishes, how should we use the first time machine.

Here's the rub, some theorize that the time machine can never go to a time before its creation. Others say that it may be possible to go back father than first thought.
So lets assume that going backwards will work as well as going forwards but it can only be used 3 times.

I am blocked and can not come up with 3 meaningful or even funny missions.

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: rock chick
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 11:53 AM

Mmm I would go back and knowing all the s... that was coming up I would change it for a different outcome, not necessarily a better outcome but one that would stop any further s... happening in the future, and as for going forward... I would hope my previous actions would stop anyone else suffering. But hey that's in an ideal world, and well that just does not exist in any shape or form.

rc

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Scrump
Date: 22 Mar 07 - 08:47 AM

Like a twist on the genie's 3 wishes, how should we use the first time machine.

Here's the rub, some theorize that the time machine can never go to a time before its creation. Others say that it may be possible to go back father than first thought.
So lets assume that going backwards will work as well as going forwards but it can only be used 3 times.

I am blocked and can not come up with 3 meaningful or even funny missions.

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 07 - 10:52 AM

I get it...


_______________________________________________________________

Notice how people choose a very personal use for the time machine rather than a use that would benefit all mankind, not that good intentions are any guarantee to help all mankind.
The road to hell is paved with the best intentions.

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Grimmy
Date: 22 Mar 07 - 11:20 AM

It's a tricky one, Donuel. If we went back and changed things then the (unintended) results could be catastrophic.

However, if we went forward and 'did some good', then maybe that wouldn't be so bad - or would it?

My head hurts.

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Scrump
Date: 22 Mar 07 - 11:31 AM

Well, if the object is to do something to benefit mankind, we could do these things:

- go back in time and slip a contraceptive pill into Mrs Hitler's tea (or do likewise for your dictator of choice)

- go back in time and destroy the blueprints for the internal combustion engine, thereby saving the world from global warming

- go back in time and get loads of dosh as mentioned for mersonal use in posts above, but bring it back to the present and use it for charitable works to improve the lot of poor people worldwide

- go back in time and persuade everybody that you are their god, and that your dearest wish is that they will never start fights on your behalf, and that world peace is a central tenet of your/their religion.

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 07 - 11:33 AM

Perhaps a 4 dimensional lifeform with a four lobed brain would find these questions as elemental as our # dimensional kindergarden games, but questions that 11 dimensional conundrums pose, would make their brain hurt.

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 07 - 11:42 AM

I think Dr. Who tried to pose the various ethics of time travel.

It is such an important question that many new vehicles for this theme will be created by the mind of humans for as long as we can think.

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 22 Mar 07 - 12:11 PM

1) Go back hundreds of years and look for Anon
2) Go back to 7th July 1977 and cause "me" to fail my driving test (it was the start of putting on weight, as I went everywhere on the bike before that).
3) Go back to 27th February 1973 (meeting Nessie) and do it all again

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Mar 07 - 12:14 PM

If there are an infinite number of parallel Universes and timelines all existing simultaneously (as some have theorized), then it wouldn't matter where you went and what you did...except to those who were in that particular Universe and timeline, of course.

It is linear thinking that gets people asking these kind of questions. What if existence is not really linear at all, but holographic?

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 07 - 12:44 PM

A 3D cube is sensed immediately with only its interior in question.

It took me countless months to visualize a hyper cube of 4 dimensions.

I can concieve of a hyper holographic universe but I can not see it.

Here is an interesting title 'The reference beam of the Universe'

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Mar 07 - 12:51 PM

Beats me how you even could visualize a 4-dimensional cube after months of focusing on the idea, Donuel.

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Grimmy
Date: 22 Mar 07 - 01:00 PM

If you happen to be travelling back in time and you meet somebody coming the other way, then it's probably best to avoid eye contact.

And DON'T SIT WITH YOUR ELBOW STICKING OUT OF THE WINDOW! Trust me on this one.

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Mar 07 - 01:30 PM

I have an inspired idea: Maybe a Mudcatter could conceive of and build a 'fast forward' machine. With it we could see how our current activities and conditions play out in real time. Then we could come back and change the impetus.

Brilliant, what?

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: rock chick
Date: 22 Mar 07 - 01:52 PM

"Notice how people choose a very personal use for the time machine rather than a use that would benefit all mankind, not that good intentions are any guarantee to help all mankind.
The road to hell is paved with the best intentions"
------------------------------------------------------------


Humans will be humans, well most of the time! other times well we could use a four letter word for some, but most humans have some form of kindness to others, it just needs digging deep, very deep in some cases, but we all have some form of self preservation, after all that's how our species has survived. So your little comment above should not be aimed at anyone, but their replies taken as part of being a member of the human race, there again maybe is wasn't 'aimed'

Subject: RE: BS: How shall we use the first time machine
From: Grimmy
Date: 22 Mar 07 - 02:12 PM

I foresee time-machine traffic jams. With bottlenecks during the 17th century. Signs saying "Give way to traffic merging from the French Revolution". Time machine traffic cops lying in wait during the Jurassic period. Cones everywhere and every time.

And we'll certainly need some kind of breakdown service -

"Yes sir, what appears to be the trouble?"
"Uh huh, and where are you exactly, sir?"
"Uh huh, and WHEN ARE YOU?"
"Thank you, sir, one of our mechanics will be with you 5 minutes ago"

Man, I can't wait.....