BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave

27 Jun 08 - 10:02 AM (#2375558)
Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave
From: eddie1

"The Bravest of the Brave, The Most Generous of the Generous, Never Had a Country More Faithful Friends Than You!" These are the words inscribed on the Gurkha War Memorial in Whitehall.
On Tuesday I, along with some 100 members of the Gurkha community from in and around Reading (UK), was at a meeting of Reading Borough Council who unanimously passed a resolution asking the Government to grant retired Gurkhas the same rights as Commonwealth soldiers. This means the right to live in the UK, the same pension and access to benefits and health care.
The Gurkhas have served this country for over 200 years, taking an oath of allegiance to The Queen and this country. They have won 13 Victoria Crosses and more than 6,500 other decorations and battle honours.
After a lot of pressure, last year the Government extended these rights to members of The Brigade of Gurkhas who retired after 1st July 1997. Why that date? because up to then the Brigade HQ was in Hong Kong and was then moved to England. Not that the move made any difference to Gurkhas serving in the field! Those who retired prior to that date receive a pension of about £100 - £125 per month.
A Gurkha couple in Reading live in a 2-room flat, the rent paid by their son who is serving in the British Army. They had to buy crutches and a wheelchair for the wife who had a leg removed as the result of cancer because she doesn't qualify for help under the NHS. They pay £2 bus fare per day for their daughter to go to school as she doesn't qualify for a bus pass. They get by with the help of street charities and The Royal British Legion.
A group of five retired Gurkhas live together in one room which is all they can afford. They and the couple mentioned earlier have been waiting about two years for a decision on whether they can remain in this country!
Last year, an 82 year-old holder of the VC who was blind and suffered from diabetes, both conditions being brought on by his 20-years military service, was refused admission to the UK because it was not felt that "his ties to this country were not strong enough"!!!!! After a petition attracted thousands of signatures he was allowed admission and now lives in an old folks' home with his only income being his £125 monthly pension!
Reading Council is sending a copy of the resolution to every Local Authority in the UK with the hopes that more will try to bring pressure on the Government to help a group to which this country owes so much, a group which, as illness and old age take their toll, gets smaller and smaller.
I am not trying to glorify war – far from it, but the Gurkhas were there when we needed them. For UK Catters, if you hear of any action being taken in your area, please support it. If not, ask why not!
I was doing some interviews for Community Radio and was presented with a silk scarf, called a Khada, as a token of their gratitude for my support.
I never quite understood what "feeling humble" meant until then.

Eddie

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There were two threads on this subject, so I combined them at the request of the thread originators.
-Joe Offer-

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27 Jun 08 - 10:25 AM (#2375567)
Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave
From: alanabit

If you know of an online petition, please let us know. I am certainly not the only one here, who agrees with you 100%.

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27 Jun 08 - 10:38 AM (#2375576)
Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave
From: eddie1

Thanks for that alanabit. There is a petition at

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Gurkha-soldiers/

Calling on the Government to grant British citizenship to retired Gurkhas. It's not everything but it's a start.
It already has 25,000 signatures

Eddie

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28 Jun 08 - 05:58 AM (#2376076)
Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave
From: Teribus

Very well said Eddie1, I had the honour to serve alongside the Gurkhas in the Far East and have the greatest respect for them. Undoubtedly among the best in the world.

I agree 100% with you and have always supported the campaign for equal pay, rights and privileges for Gurkha troops and their families. They wear, and have worn, the uniform of the Queen in the service of this country, to welcome them wholeheartedly to our country is the least that we can do to show our gratitude and appreciation. To do otherwise is to demonstrate a meanness of spirit that beggars description.

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28 Jun 08 - 06:15 AM (#2376079)
Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave
From: Liz the Squeak

I've never served in any armed force (except the Brownies and they frowned on actual weaponry), but I researched many war stories when I worked in a military museum, many about the Gurkha exploits. As Teribus says, it's the very least we can do.

LTS

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28 Jun 08 - 07:25 AM (#2376089)
Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave
From: Lox

With you all the way.

Just as any Ghurka would be.

No Ghurka friend or ally would ever let you down

The Ghurkas have never let Britain down.

Yet Britain is letting them down.

Words cannot express how revolting this betrayal is.

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28 Jun 08 - 08:26 AM (#2376094)
Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave
From: alanabit

Thanks eddie 1. There will soon be 25,001 signatures on that petition.

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28 Jun 08 - 12:39 PM (#2376188)
Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave
From: gnu

Already is.

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28 Jun 08 - 03:06 PM (#2376269)
Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave
From: Little Hawk

They are extraordinary warriors without a doubt, and they should be fully honored and rewarded for their past services to the British Empire.

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28 Jun 08 - 05:39 PM (#2376348)
Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave
From: Teribus

For their past and present services LH.

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28 Jun 08 - 07:02 PM (#2376362)
Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave
From: Little Hawk

Righto.

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28 Jun 08 - 07:21 PM (#2376367)
Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave
From: Zen

I'm not a military type but will support this petition too.

Zen

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28 Jun 08 - 07:26 PM (#2376371)
Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave
From: Zen

25003 at least now.

Here's a blue clicky Ex-Gurkha Soldiers Petition

Zen

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29 Jun 08 - 03:53 PM (#2376850)
Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave
From: Peace

Eddie, I went to sign the petition but they accept only 'signatures' from folks in the UK. Good on you, though.

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16 Sep 08 - 09:10 AM (#2441940)
Subject: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: Jean(eanjay)

Why do we all in the UK have to put up with the likes of Abu Hamza but the Gurkhas are having to fight for the right to retire here?

My father was in the British army and he had such respect for the Gurkhas; they were brilliant. We owe them.

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16 Sep 08 - 09:11 AM (#2441943)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: Rapparee

I dunno. Why?

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16 Sep 08 - 09:21 AM (#2441954)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: Jean(eanjay)

Tony Blair should have resolved this issue so he goes even further down (a bit like the FTSE) in my estimation.

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16 Sep 08 - 09:56 AM (#2441995)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: Liz the Squeak

There was a thread earlier this year with a link to a petition. I suspect the closing date has long gone, but basically it was petitioning the government to give proper equal pension rights and the right to live in the UK to members and former members of the Gurkha Regiment.

Look up Gurkha Rights on Google and see what they don't get.

LTS

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16 Sep 08 - 10:12 AM (#2442011)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: Jean(eanjay)

Liz, thanks for that. I missed that thread at the time and when I searched before starting this thread I couldn't find anything. I've googled it and managed to find a site where I got a message from McAfee saying that they had blocked a Trojan! There doesn't seem to be much.

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16 Sep 08 - 10:19 AM (#2442020)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: Jean(eanjay)

I've managed to find the Tony Blair murderer petiton thread though! Since I've got a down on him at the moment I thought I'd just pop in a link :)

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16 Sep 08 - 10:20 AM (#2442022)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: bubblyrat

As an ex-serviceman, I am naturally biased in favour of the Gurkhas, for whom I have great admiration and respect. They put the fear of God up the Argentinian soldiers during the Falklands War (apparently), and I'm not surprised---their reputation as fighters,especially at close quarters,is legendary. They should all get the same rights as anyone else who has fought for this country , irrespective of when they left the army---Tony Blair is a miserable ,penny-pinching twat,and should be exiled forever. The Gurkhas are far more deserving of our gratitude, in the form of full British citizenship,than 99 percent of the dross we have to put up with in our Labour Party- inspired role as Rectum Mundi. So there !!

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16 Sep 08 - 10:34 AM (#2442036)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: Jean(eanjay)

their reputation as fighters,especially at close quarters,is legendary

Not only brilliant fighters but very loyal as well. Love your post bubblyrat.

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16 Sep 08 - 10:49 AM (#2442044)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: Liz the Squeak

I've never served in any military capacity (except as a Brownie, but that's another story) but I worked in a Military Museum for a while.

The stories set out in the Regimental Diaries from soldiers who served with Gurkha soldiers defy all descriptions and are far more chilling than any modern day thriller story.

A Brigadier of the Dorset Regiment once confided to myself and my colleagues that he'd rather have a squad of Gurkhas than a whole battalion of regular Army personnel. He was fortunate enough to command one of the Gurkha battalions during WWII and owed his very life to their bravery and skill.

LTS

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16 Sep 08 - 11:01 AM (#2442053)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: Jean(eanjay)

Tribute to the Gurkhas

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16 Sep 08 - 12:05 PM (#2442128)
Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave
From: eddie1

I see another thread has appeared re today's activities and someone was looking for this thread - perhaps they can be amalgamated if a friendly elf is nearby.
Don't know if the petition is still up.

Eddie

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16 Sep 08 - 02:27 PM (#2442293)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: GUEST,Catch away, O

Just as a matter of interest, and considering that both Sikhs and Gurkhas (and Scots and Irish, but that's another story) were allowed or encouraged to serve in the armies of the British State and Empire, why wasn't there any similar attempt to get the Zulus roped in as well? Had policy changed between the 1840s and the 1880s, or did they defeat the Brits just TOO convincingly at Isandhlwana?

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16 Sep 08 - 03:21 PM (#2442350)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: GUEST,lox

Thanks for dedicating your liives, risking them and even in some cases losing them for us ...

... Thanks for the sacrifice of your Husband/Father ...

... here's some pocket money so you can buy some sweets ... (not very many mind) ...

... we meant in Nepal ... not here ...

... thanks then ... bye ...



It is criminal.

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16 Sep 08 - 03:30 PM (#2442354)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: skipy

It's more than just criminal!
it's ********* ****** **** ********* **** to say the least.
However there is a way around it, they only need to get a ferry to France & come back in or under a wagon & Hey! presto they can have anything they want & more!
Skipy

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16 Sep 08 - 03:56 PM (#2442374)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: beardedbruce

Agreed, Lox.

But the US has no room to make any comment- Look at the First Nation men who fought for the US in WW II, and how we have treated their peoples.



Sonnet 27/09/04 On the Opening of NMAI CMXXXIII

I listen to the songs of life, as told
By dark-eyed beauties, hair the color of
True wisdom: Quiet words that power hold
To speak of family, work; hopes, tears, and love.
I see the flash of fire in eyes, that tell
Of old injustice, but a smile for all.
What have we done, to past redeem, or spell
Out what we owe for what greed let befall?
I feel the beat of drums: Power to move
Both feet and hearts. What will the future show?
How can this nation honest fairness prove
Unless we make amends for what we know?
We have no reason, now, to debt deny:
How will our conscience to this call reply?

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16 Sep 08 - 04:16 PM (#2442401)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: Jean(eanjay)

I see from this thread that you wrote that sonnet. I love it.

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16 Sep 08 - 04:52 PM (#2442435)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: beardedbruce

Thanks!. I just wish we (the US) did something to acknowledge First Nation contributions , given how we ( the US) have treated them.

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16 Sep 08 - 05:17 PM (#2442471)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: eddie1

The petition is still on-line here

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Gurkha-soldiers/

Unfortunately only British citizens/residents can sign.

Eddie

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16 Sep 08 - 05:26 PM (#2442477)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: Jean(eanjay)

eddie 1, Thanks for that link. I've just signed. I'll check tomorrow to make sure my name has been added to the list.

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16 Sep 08 - 05:51 PM (#2442493)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: GUEST,lox

BB,


I assume by first nation you mean what I have referred to as Native American.

I knew of the "comanche code" in the pacific during the war against the Japanese, (I think it was Comanche anyway - correct me if it wasn't) and I've seen a programme about a guy who went back to france to see if he could find some diamonds he and his Sioux (I think) friend buried in a forest during WWII. The story and the partnership with the friend (who was killed) clearly meant more to the guy than the diamonds ever could, but they represented proof of an adventure they had shared alone.

I'll try to find a link.

But beyond that my knowledge of the "first Nation" contribution is non existent.

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16 Sep 08 - 06:00 PM (#2442500)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: GUEST,lox

Looks like there's a book here


Sorry folks ... I'm done hijacking ...

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16 Sep 08 - 06:04 PM (#2442504)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: GUEST,Elliot Lurie

No, they have neither right or reason to remain in the UK. They amount to nothing more than paid migrant workers.

I am sick of hearing we owe a special debt to soldiers. They are not out in the Middle East acting on my behalf. A soldier accepts the terms and conditions that come with the job, this includes being shot at.

We have enough nationalities weighting our little isle down without these Gurkhas adding to it. We are at last seeing the UK government deal with migrant worker numbers, please don't add to it.

XOX
EL

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16 Sep 08 - 06:05 PM (#2442505)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: artbrooks

As US citizens and soldiers, members of any of the Indian Nations who served in any branch of the US military are entitled to all of the benefits of any non-Indian who served at the same time.

Lox, the most well known group of "Indian Code Talkers" were Navaho...as an Army veteran, my own read on why they are the best known is that they were in the Marine Corps, and everyone knows that every Marine squad has its own PR agent. (BG) There were a number of other nations whose members participated in this program, which basically involved using native languages (which no member of the Axis could understand) to communicate by radio.

For us non-Brits, could someone summarize the Gurkha issue (or provide a link to an unbiased summary)?

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16 Sep 08 - 06:08 PM (#2442507)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: irishenglish

Yes lox, the codes was one area they were famous for. The other was Ira Hayes, also the subject of a movie.



Beware the trolls

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16 Sep 08 - 06:22 PM (#2442522)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: GUEST,lox

The Ghurkas, from Nepal, are a regiment within the British Army who have been relied on for their unrivalled bravery and loyalty for more years than need to be accurately specified.

They receive less in pensions than "regular" British Soldiers and do not have right of residency in The UK, just the right to die for the crown.

So sad

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16 Sep 08 - 06:28 PM (#2442531)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: GUEST,lox

Art,

Thanks - I guessed I had remembered wrong but carried on anyway with my disclaimer to protect me ;-)

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16 Sep 08 - 06:57 PM (#2442562)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: artbrooks

The USA has its own sad history of poor treatment of colonial soldiers. There were a lot of Filipinos in the US Army during WW-2, and many of them ended up in POW camps. They are eligible for US veterans benefits but, except for the Philippine Scouts and those who were in the "regular" military, Filipino veterans living in the Philippines are paid exactly half of the amount paid to other vets. They have no emigration or citizenship preference.

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16 Sep 08 - 07:07 PM (#2442569)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: GUEST,lox

I can see the similarity art, but if I may enquire, I am curious about what could be perceived as a possible key difference:

Did those Filipinos fight solely in WWII in the south pacific or is there a permanent Filipino regiment in the US army?

The Ghurkas have gone everywhere from Afghanistan and Iraq to the Falkland Islands in their 200 year history with the British army.

They don't serve to protect their own homeland but have unqualified allegiance to the UK.

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16 Sep 08 - 07:16 PM (#2442578)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: artbrooks

That is the key difference, Lox - and I'd say that there are rarely exact correspondences between nations.

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16 Sep 08 - 07:34 PM (#2442593)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: Sorcha

Somebody needs to start a 'war'. Maybe that Nick Cleg can.

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16 Sep 08 - 09:51 PM (#2442667)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: Rumncoke

After WWII there were men repatriated to Hong Kong after serving in the British merchant fleet on convoy duties. They had been recruited from various British shipping lines, mostly sailing from Liverpool.

They were, in some cases, married and had children here, but there were no exceptions.

The British government has a long tradition of betrayals - the treatment of former Commonwealth Citisens is similar. Those who moved to Britain, or arrived as children when their parents were invited to come and work in our factories, lost their right to live here if their countries were granted independance.

Anne

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17 Sep 08 - 02:29 AM (#2442788)
Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave
From: Penny S.

The petition is open until the 26th.

Penny

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17 Sep 08 - 02:55 AM (#2442794)
Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave
From: Backwoodsman

Tou forgot the November, Penny! 26th NOVEMBER, 2008.

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17 Sep 08 - 02:56 AM (#2442795)
Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave
From: Backwoodsman

You! Dyslexic fingers! D'oh.

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17 Sep 08 - 03:57 AM (#2442820)
Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave
From: open mike

who and where is gurka?

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17 Sep 08 - 04:04 AM (#2442824)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: open mike

the video on you tube explains that they are from Nepal.

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17 Sep 08 - 04:17 AM (#2442829)
Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

Thanks for refreshing this thread; I was looking for it yesterday. I signed the petition last night.

I see another thread has appeared re today's activities and someone was looking for this thread - perhaps they can be amalgamated if a friendly elf is nearby.

I'll pm Joe and ask if the threads can be amalgamated.

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17 Sep 08 - 04:19 AM (#2442831)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: GUEST,Elliot Lurie

Yes,and that is where they will be going back to. Our government has to take a stand. I wrote to my MP regarding this matter and received an assurance that the government will not back down over it. Why in God's name should these people receive special treatment ? They were hired help, no different than a overseas cleaner or a nurse. They held a position and received a wage for doing so.

End of story.

EL
XOX

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17 Sep 08 - 04:33 AM (#2442843)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: Jean(eanjay)

"The Bravest of the Brave, The Most Generous of the Generous, Never Had a Country More Faithful Friends Than You!" These are the words inscribed on the Gurkha War Memorial in Whitehall.

I have taken the above from the thread that was started in June by Eddie1 - "Bravest of the Brave". I have asked Joe Offer if it is possible to combine these 2 threads.

Elliot Lurie, they are a lot different from some. Their courage, bravery, loyalty and service to this country goes beyond that of many others. They are the one group of people that we do owe something to. We're busy supporting some who have done nothing for this country and criticise and condemn it for no reason at all. You have your opinion but I don't agree with it.

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17 Sep 08 - 04:46 AM (#2442850)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: Jean(eanjay)

Also, don't bank on any assurances from this government!

LOL

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17 Sep 08 - 04:59 AM (#2442859)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: Teribus

The British (East India Company) first fought and defeated the Gurkhas in Nthe Nepalese war of 1815. They had such a tough time doing it that the East India Company incorporated them into their private army.

Nepal provides Gurkhas to the armed forces of the UK, India and to the Sultan of Brunei. The deal that the Gurkhas had with the Government of the UK was made with the Government of Nepal. The reason that they were not given the same pensions, etc as the men that they fought alongside in the British armed forces was because the Nepalese Government did not want these men returning home "rich" enough to upset the apple cart back home in Nepal.

My own personal take on it is that they are the best light infantry in the world bar none, having served alongside them in Borneo. Having served the crown they should by right be entitled to British citizenship, with identical pay and pension rights as any other British serviceman. They are contributers to any society or community that they find themselves in and the Crown, the British Government and the British people should be ashamed of the way that these men have been treated.

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17 Sep 08 - 05:13 AM (#2442864)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Megan L

I didn't see a link to this on the thread if its there forgive me. I agree they deserve fair treatment and the petition is something but we can give practical help right now till our governament gets of its backside. Ghurka welfare

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17 Sep 08 - 07:14 AM (#2442914)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Backwoodsman

"Why in God's name should these people receive special treatment"

Well, we give special treatment to terrorists and supporters of murderous regimes who sponge off our social system whilst preaching sedition against us, why not give the same special treatment to honourable, brave men who fought and died in order that we might be free.

You're a tit, Elliot.

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17 Sep 08 - 07:21 AM (#2442916)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

Megan L, thanks for that link; it hadn't been given on this thread before. It does give us the opportunity to give practical help. £240 sponsors a veteran for a whole year but people can give smaller (or larger) amounts of course.

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17 Sep 08 - 07:30 AM (#2442925)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

The protest culminated with a powerful symbol of their sense of injustice, when they handed back their hard-earned medals to the government.

The above is taken from the link given by Lox. Giving their medals back, what a sad day!

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17 Sep 08 - 10:23 AM (#2443051)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Bra
From: GUEST,Elliot Lurie

If you care to read the press today backwardman you will see Britain as an island will become over populated and there are calls for the government to do something about it now. And a plank like yourself wants to add to it with hired Asian soldiers! They were paid, fed and educated. End of story, the gravy train stops the day they leave the regiment.

EL
XOX

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17 Sep 08 - 10:28 AM (#2443061)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Megan L

Ok Elliot tell you what can I have a dozen Gurkhas here please we would quite willingly club together to pay your ticket there in exchange my dear only I dont think that would be fair on their local community.

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17 Sep 08 - 10:57 AM (#2443080)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

There is no doubt that Britain as an island will become over populated. We are keeping terrorists in luxury and we're frightened to say anything against them because of their human rights or in case they sue us.

The government has allowed this to happen BUT they want to turn away people who SHOULD be ENTITLED to stay, people who DESERVE to stay. Instead they seem to be intent on TURNING AWAY the BEST and pampering the worst.

It's a disgrace.

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17 Sep 08 - 11:16 AM (#2443093)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

I've just checked the petition and there are 29,733 signatures on it. A lot of people have signed since my name was added last night.

I know that a link has already been given earlier in the thread but I thought I would give it again.

PETITION

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17 Sep 08 - 11:36 AM (#2443103)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Bra
From: GUEST,Elliot Lurie

Oh my dear Magan I am BRITISH ! so no problems here. I just emailed my MP who agrees they have no right to citizenship and told him of a very successful and well supported petition in favour of these ex soldiers NOT being allowed to remain in the UK. He just replied and has passed the news on.

EL
XOX

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17 Sep 08 - 12:40 PM (#2443143)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: GUEST,lox

EL

"Our government has to take a stand"

Oh really ...

... against the Ghurkas ...



what a courageous stand that would be eh?


I stand in awe of your delegated bravery ...


BTW

Just to clarify the crux of my view,

The Ghurkas sacrificed and achieved more in the name of my liberty than you could ever remotely pretend to with your jumped up phony nationalism.

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17 Sep 08 - 12:52 PM (#2443154)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: eddie1

I have no wish to give this, I feel, ignorant character the recognition of a reply so I will address this post to everyone else.
To repeat and perhaps clarify what I said in my original posting of 28 June, the group we are talking about are members of the Brigade of Gurkhas who retired prior to 1st July 1997 when the Brigade HQ moved from Hong Kong to England. Those who retired after that date DO have the right to British Citizenship, the right to remain in this country and full benefit and pension rights. This was agreed by the Government last year so whatever thingy and his MP are talking about escapes me.
Those who retired prior to 1st July 97 can apply to stay in this country but each case is treated individually. The motion passed by Reading Borough Council in June referred specifically to this group and pressed the Government to grant this group – one growing ever smaller – the same rights as those who retired after 1st July 97.
Many others have written of the reasons why we owe them. I don't need to repeat them.
Can I say that the one opinion expressed here, differing from everyone else doesn't make me angry. Just kind of sick!

Eddie

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17 Sep 08 - 12:57 PM (#2443163)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

I suspect that it is a direct result of having a government in which NO member has EVER served in ANY of our Armed Forces...

The above is taken from the Have your say section on this page. Is that correct? It had never crossed my mind to consider that.

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17 Sep 08 - 01:06 PM (#2443185)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: beardedbruce

TOMMY
by Rudyard Kipling (1865-1936)



I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!

---

17 Sep 08 - 01:12 PM (#2443198)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

That poem reminded me of this.

---

17 Sep 08 - 01:14 PM (#2443200)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Bra
From: GUEST,Elliot Lurie

Maybe a few of you would like to head out Nepal or whatever corner of the forest they came here from and bang on about human rights, freebies or benefits and see how generous they are to you.

Thankfully the days of "Soft Touch Britain" are coming to an end.

Please drop the subject because the government and people like myself are not for turning.

EL
XOX

---

17 Sep 08 - 01:22 PM (#2443211)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

Maybe a few of you would like to head out Nepal or whatever corner of the forest they came here from and bang on about human rights, freebies or benefits and see how generous they are to you.

I didn't fight for their country so I wouldn't expect anything. I think you are confusing the scroungers in this country with people who have the RIGHT (IMO) to British citizenship.

Also, the government will turn whenever it suits it and you and I won't be considered!

---

17 Sep 08 - 03:29 PM (#2443354)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Backwoodsman

"If you care to read the press today backwardman"

Aaahh, all is explained - it's you again, you gormless piece of shit. No wonder a Billy-No-Mates like you has to spout al, this crap to get someone to notice him. Back to the bog with your wank-mag, little man.

---

17 Sep 08 - 04:35 PM (#2443425)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Penny S.

I don't know whereabouts in Britain Mr Lurie resides, but I am thankful that I have not met any one I know to share his views. My parents brought me up to be proud of our long inheritance of Britishness, but I also grew up with a sense of the honourable behaviour that that demands.

It is not honourable to use people's lives and then discard them. That goes for our own military, too, but to exclude the Gurkhas in the way that has been done is mean. Meanness may be a part of our national character at certain times and in certain places, but it is not an estimable one, or one to be encouraged.

Penny

---

17 Sep 08 - 04:59 PM (#2443439)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: beardedbruce

an aside: if you want to be correct,

"Historically, the Britons (sometimes Brythons or British) were the P-Celtic speaking indigenous peoples inhabiting the island of Great Britain south of the river Forth. They were speakers of the Brythonic languages (also called P-Celtic) and shared common cultural traditions. In terms of language and culture, much of north-western Europe was mainly Celtic during this period. The inhabitants of Ireland, the Isle of Man and Dál Riata were Gaels or Gaelic Celts who spoke Goidelic languages.

A number of scholars argue that the unknown Pictish language was Brythonic, but in Sub-Roman Britain the Picts were distinguished as a separate group, as were the Gaels of Dál Riata. Therefore, the term "Briton" traditionally refers to the inhabitants of ancient Britain excluding the Picts, because many Pictish cultural traits (for example their sculpture, pottery and monuments) differ from those of the Britons and because ancient writers clearly distinguish the two peoples."

Anglo-Saxons and Normans need not apply....

However:

"Britain has been intermittently inhabited by members of the Homo genus for hundreds of thousands of years and by Homo sapiens for tens of thousands of years. DNA analysis has shown that modern man arrived in Britain before the last ice age but retreated to Southern Europe when much of Britain was ice covered, with the remainder being tundra. At this time the sea level was around 127m lower than today so that Britain was joined to Ireland and to the continent of Europe.

After the end of the last Ice Age (around 9500 years ago) Ireland became separated from Britain and later (around 6000 BC) Britain was cut off from the rest of Europe. By 12,000 BC Britain had been reoccupied, as shown by archaeology. By around 4000 BC, the island was populated by people with a Neolithic culture.[1] However, none of the pre-Roman inhabitants of Britain have any known surviving written language. No literature of pre-Roman Britain has survived, so its history, culture and way of life are known mainly through archaeological finds. Though the main evidence for the period is archaeological, there is a growing amount of genetic evidence which is still changing. There is also a little amount of linguistic evidence, from river and hill names, which is covered in the articles on Pre-Celtic and Celtic."

"The first distinct culture of the Upper Palaeolithic in Britain is what archaeologists call the Creswellian industry, with leaf-shaped points probably used as arrowheads. It produced more refined flint tools but also made use of bone, antler, shell, amber, animal teeth, and mammoth ivory. These were fashioned into tools but also jewellery and rods of uncertain purpose."

"Beaker pottery appears in England around 2475–2315 cal BC[8] along with flat axes and burial practices of inhumation. With the revised Stonehenge chronology, this is after the Sarsen Circle and trilithons were erected at Stonehenge. Believed to be of Iberian origin, (modern day Spain and Portugal), Beaker techniques brought to Britain the skill of refining metal."
"There was some debate amongst archaeologists as to whether the 'Beaker people' were a race of people who migrated to Britain en masse from the continent, or whether a prestigious Beaker cultural "package" of goods and behaviours (which eventually spread across most of western Europe) diffused to Britain's existing inhabitants through trade across tribal boundaries. Modern thinking tends towards the latter view. Alternatively, a ruling class of Beaker individuals may have made the migration and come to control the native population at some level. Genetics suggests that there was only a small infux of people to Britain at this time, around a few percent."



"There is evidence of a relatively large scale disruption of cultural patterns which some scholars think may indicate an invasion (or at least a migration) into southern Great Britain circa the 12th century BC. This disruption was felt far beyond Britain, even beyond Europe, as most of the great Near Eastern empires collapsed (or experienced severe difficulties) and the Sea Peoples harried the entire Mediterranean basin around this time. Some scholars consider that the Celtic languages arrived in Britain at this time."



So even Celts are newcomers....


By 600 BC, British society changed again. Often termed the "Celtic culture", it had by 500 BC covered most of the British Isles. The Celts were highly skilled craftsmen and produced intricately patterned gold jewellery and weapons in bronze and iron. It is disputed whether Iron Age Britons were "Celts", with numerous academics such as John Collis[9] and Simon James[10] actively opposing the idea of 'Celtic Britain', since the term was only applied at this time to a tribe in Gaul. However, placenames and tribal names from the later part of the period suggest that a Celtic language was spoken, for example the people were said to be "Pretanni". The term "Celtic" continues to be used by linguists to describe the family that includes many of the ancient languages of Western Europe and modern British languages such as Welsh without controversy.[11]



So, who is claiming to be a "native"?

---

17 Sep 08 - 05:36 PM (#2443471)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: beardedbruce

So, anyone whose family was not already in Britain when the Beaker people came in is an immigrant and should be aware of it.

---

17 Sep 08 - 05:52 PM (#2443486)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Bra
From: GUEST,Elliot Lurie

Penny, I am proud of my heritage and I am also sick sore and tired of our wonderful country going down the pan with an influx of migrant so called workers or illegal immigrants standing with their hand out and receiving the money they beg for.

So many hard working young British couples are struggling to make ends meet, this young generation is our future, these people are born and reared British. I am sorry if some of you are too dammed thick to see it, but these Nepal blokes received a wage for a job they did, end of story. So what about the Asia nurses and cleaners looking after my granny in a care home ? Should we slip them a note telling them that because they wiped asses in the UK they can look forward to a weekly handout courtesy of the British taxpayer when they decide to stop working ?

The government are putting the breaks on and it's jolly well about time.

EL
XOX

---

18 Sep 08 - 03:52 AM (#2443791)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

I'm sure that a lot of people (me included) are pleased that the government are putting the breaks on .... BUT they have got it WRONG here.

What possible moral case exists for saying that a Gurkha discharged in 1996 after 15 years' service is any less entitled to come here than one discharged a year later, after five years in the Army? For some Gurkhas falling outside the cut-off date who are already living in Britain, sometimes in penury, it means the prospect of deportation.

It is extraordinary that the authorities are prepared to deport someone who fought in our Army, yet last week the Court of Appeal ruled that under an EU directive, an Italian who served nine years for robbing a pensioner - and had a string of other convictions - could not be ejected because he did not pose a serious threat to the security of the nation.

Pre-1997 Gurkhas are not able to stay or settle because the Home Office says they cannot demonstrate "close ties" to this country. Even serving Gurkha soldiers are not treated equally. Their children are regarded as foreign students and must pay fees of up to £13,000 a year if they want to attend university. Only when citizenship is granted after a lengthy application period once they leave the Army are their children regarded as home students in the UK.

All of this is particularly galling when you consider the mess the Government has made of our immigration system. Over the past 10 years, it has allowed hundreds of thousands of people who have no claim to settle here to do just that.

That is taken from here.

Let us not confuse different groups of people and lump them all together under one heading!

I just hope that the High Court in London rules in their favour. That would be JUSTICE!

---

18 Sep 08 - 04:20 AM (#2443793)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Bra
From: GUEST,Elliot Lurie

eanjay, Please don't select certain professions as "elite" or imply one persons job is more important than another's.

I am sick of television programmes about Ambulance Drivers, Firemen, Nurses, Life Guards and soldiers. All are paid positions of employment and come with risks and dangers.Everyone's job is important.

This can also be said for the regiment of the British army, it's a paid job. These guys get the chance to leave their country, receive a good wage, a trade or profession and see a lot more of the world than if they stayed at home. If their so loyal, why come over here, why not stay in their own country ?

Listen, they were paid and when the job is over send them home, end of story, for Christ sake we have been the feeding cup for for too long for every Tom, Dick and Gurkie.

The government says they drew a line in the sand at 1997. ACCEPT IT.

EL
XOX

---

18 Sep 08 - 04:29 AM (#2443800)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: GUEST,ted

This goverment should be ashamed of the treatment of these great soldiers and also ashamed that this has been allowed to go on and into court

---

18 Sep 08 - 07:26 AM (#2443888)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

Please don't select certain professions as "elite" or imply one persons job is more important than another's.

Elliot,your words not mine!

You are either not understanding what I am saying or you are twisting my words.

---

18 Sep 08 - 07:28 AM (#2443892)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

30,366 names on the petition when I just looked :-)

---

18 Sep 08 - 09:12 AM (#2443968)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: artbrooks

Thank you, Lox and others, for the information. I wish I was eligible to sign the petition.

---

18 Sep 08 - 10:50 AM (#2444028)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: sapper82

Elliot, as an ex-squaddie and a committed Tory of the Thatcherite persuasion, I have two words to say to you.
The second word is Off.

---

18 Sep 08 - 11:03 AM (#2444041)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Bra
From: GUEST,Elliot Lurie

Ah, as promised the walking failure arrives in the form of that publicly disgraced Royal Engineer. Sorry old boy, we are discussing line regiments on this thread, that qualifies me, not you. Please push on back to the workshop !

EL

XOX

---

18 Sep 08 - 11:07 AM (#2444044)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

Oh dear!

---

18 Sep 08 - 02:08 PM (#2444197)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: CET

I have signed the petition, by virtue of having been born in Britain, though I have been a Canadian for lo these many years. There are a couple of Gurkha soldiers serving on the same camp as me here in Afghanistan.

I, too, grew up with stories about the Gurkhas from my father, who knew them in Malaya.

I don't believe that the troll calling himself Eliott Lurie ever served in the British Army. No real soldier would ever say the things he has said about the Gurkhas. And no real infantryman would express contempt for Engineers. Any one in a real line regiment knows they are first in and last out, and just as tough as any rifleman.

---

18 Sep 08 - 02:10 PM (#2444201)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: beardedbruce

And no real infantryman would express contempt for Engineers.

Same for the US.

---

18 Sep 08 - 04:33 PM (#2444365)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: beardedbruce

"During the last ice age, a group of people crossed the land bridge from the continent and decided to settle in the green and pleasant land they found."


Immigrant! Your forebearers came in and displaced the resident Neanderthal population!

What your five- and sixbearers did I don't want to think about!

---

18 Sep 08 - 04:41 PM (#2444374)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: beardedbruce

Sites such as Boxgrove in Sussex illustrate the later arrival in the archaeological record of an archaic Homo species called Homo heidelbergensis around 500,000 years ago. These early peoples made Acheulean flint tools (hand axes) and hunted the large native mammals of the period. They drove elephants, rhinoceri and hippopotami over the tops of cliffs or into bogs to more easily kill them.

The extreme cold of the following Anglian Stage is likely to have driven humans out of Britain altogether and the region does not appear to have been occupied again until the ice receded during the Hoxnian Stage. This warmer time period lasted from around 300,000 until 200,000 years ago and saw the Clactonian flint tool industry develop at sites such as Barnfield Pit in Kent. The period had produced a rich and widespread distribution of sites by Palaeolithic standards, although uncertainty over the relationship between the Clactonian and Acheulean industries is still unresolved.

This period saw also Levallois flint tools introduced, possibly by humans arriving from Africa. Finds from Swanscombe and Botany Pit in Purfleet support Levallois technology being a European rather than African introduction however. The more advanced flint technology permitted more efficient hunting and therefore made Britain a more worthwhile place to remain until the following period of cooling Wolstonian Stage, 352,000–130,000 years ago).

However, there is little evidence of human occupation during the subsequent Ipswichian interglacial between around 130,000 and 110,000 years ago. Meltwaters from the previous glaciation cut Britain off from the continent for the first time during this period which may explain the lack of activity. Overall, there appears to have been a gradual decline in population between the Hoxnian Stage and this time suggesting that the absence of humans in the archaeological record here was the result of gradual depopulation.


[edit] Middle Palaeolithic
(from around 180,000 to 40,000 years ago)

From 180 to 60 kya there is no evidence of human occupation in Britain. From 60 to 40 kya Britain was grass land with giant deer and horse, with woolly mammoths, rhino and carnivores. Neanderthal man had arrived in Britain by around 40,000 years ago."

---

18 Sep 08 - 05:48 PM (#2444441)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Lox

Art - no worries.

BB

I like the direction you are taking this thread.

But I think you may be wrong to argue that EL's ancestors replaced the neanderthals.

---

18 Sep 08 - 08:05 PM (#2444556)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: artbrooks

Everyone else's replaced his?

---

19 Sep 08 - 07:32 AM (#2444887)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

31,181 names on the petition.

---

19 Sep 08 - 08:10 AM (#2444909)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Bra
From: Stu

"Immigrant! Your forebearers came in and displaced the resident Neanderthal population!"

You've obviously never met my family : )

---

19 Sep 08 - 10:50 AM (#2445038)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Mississippi Saxaphone

Joanna Lumley is prepared to give back her passport and become an Indian national if the veteran soldiers lose their battle to stay in Britain.

---

19 Sep 08 - 10:54 AM (#2445041)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: beardedbruce

I make no judgement about anyone's ancestors- but if you claim to be anti-immigrant, be sure you evolved where you are living, or you need to remove yourself.

I stated my position re the Gurkhas early on: it has not changed.

---

19 Sep 08 - 11:20 AM (#2445075)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: sapper82

Oh dear Elliot. you've just proven you have never been in the forces.

---

19 Sep 08 - 11:40 AM (#2445100)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: sapper82

Damn! Rose to the bait again!
I really do think that Eliot is a trolling shit and that we ought to just ignore the turd!

---

19 Sep 08 - 11:45 AM (#2445104)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Mississippi Saxaphone

BTW, I've signed the petition.

---

19 Sep 08 - 07:49 PM (#2445527)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

100

---

22 Sep 08 - 08:48 AM (#2447174)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: beardedbruce

refresh

---

22 Sep 08 - 09:11 AM (#2447198)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

I'm pleased to see that there are now more than 32,000 signatures on the petition.

I have always been a Joanna Lumley fan but I admire her even more now with the support she is giving to the gurkhas.

The media coverage has (IMO) been a little thin when you consider the unnewsworthy things we are bombarded with on a daily basis; some of them for an extended period of time too.

---

22 Sep 08 - 09:30 AM (#2447216)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Bra
From: Charley Noble

We follow this petition with great interest and support from across the Great Pond.

I'm pleased to see such unified support from Mudcat members, and almost all guests, for this petition and the issues it's responding to.

I do wonder what pensions were provided the various German mercenaries who were hired by the Crown to put down our little rebellion. I believe it was pretty much a flat-rate payout based on whether they survived, what limbs they might have been lost, or whether they were killed. There is certainly an entire history of such injustice to the troops and no nation has a monopoly on such injustice. Another case in point would be the status of Iraqies hired as translators in the Bush Administration's current adventure.

Good luck on this petition effort.

Charley Noble

---

29 Sep 08 - 01:39 PM (#2453039)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

Gurkhas fighting for the right to retire in the UK will hear tomorrow if they have won their legal battle. Judge Mr Justice Blake will rule on the High Court case heard last week. Here

33,640 signatures

---

29 Sep 08 - 04:03 PM (#2453158)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Backwoodsman

nd mine's one of 'em. And Mrs. Fenswoman's.
Fingers crossed, Eanjay, although I'm not holding my breath.

---

30 Sep 08 - 06:25 AM (#2453606)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

Definitely got my fingers crossed today.

I enjoyed reading this: Pendletoday .

33,722 signatures

---

30 Sep 08 - 07:11 AM (#2453624)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Bra
From: GUEST,Lauro

The UK is not a charity, nor is it a free loaders paradise. I wrote to my MP and made my feelings clear that they MUST NOT be allowed to remain in the UK. What kind of message would it send out if they were allowed to live here ? I am glad to say there is strong feeling here against these people receiving special treatment.

I see in the press they are now coming up with crap to stay in the UK, this is low, still it won't work. We are not a feeding bowl.

"47 ex-British Army Gurkhas are on "death row" awaiting kidney transplants they can never afford after the Government turned its back on them. Lawyers acting for the former soldiers believe many have kidney problems because they did not get enough water while serving Britain in hot climates".

I never read such hock in my life.

Each served at least 15 years before returning to poverty-stricken Nepal.

---

30 Sep 08 - 07:13 AM (#2453625)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: GUEST,beardedbruce

Gurkhas await High Court ruling on right to stay in Britain

23 minutes ago



LONDON (AFP) - Former Nepalese Gurkha soldiers were on Tuesday awaiting a High Court ruling on their demand for the right to settle in Britain, which could effect the future of 2,000 such veterans.

A lawyer for the old soldiers voiced hope that the verdict -- the climax of a two-year legal battle for Gurkhas who retired before 1997 and thus do not automatically have the right to live here -- would go their way.

"The decision... will be historic, the culmination of a hard-fought two-year legal battle seeking justice for some 2,000 Gurkhas whose only fault was to retire prior to July 1, 1997," said solicitor Martin Howe.

"I sincerely hope that the court's judgement will strike down the government's policy barring from Britain a class of loyal Gurkhas who stood by this country and risked their lives and limbs for the freedoms and values that we all enjoy," he added.

Gurkhas who retired after 1997, when their base was moved from Hong Kong to England, can stay in Britain.

But those who retired earlier and whose individual cases were decided by visa officials in Kathmandu and Hong Kong must apply for permission to stay and may be refused and deported.

All other foreign soldiers in the army have a right to settle in Britain after four years of service anywhere in the world.

Around 200,000 Gurkhas fought for Britain in World Wars I and II, and about 3,500 currently serve in the army, including in Afghanistan and Iraq.

More than 45,000 have died serving Britain.

The Gurkhas, who are renowned for their bravery and ferocious fighting skills, have also struggled for many years for equal pension rights as their British army counterparts.

Tuesday's ruling was expected around 2:00 pm.

---

30 Sep 08 - 09:30 AM (#2453728)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

Excellent news; this has made my day.

It is the RIGHT decision.

---

30 Sep 08 - 09:35 AM (#2453733)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

another link

---

30 Sep 08 - 10:10 AM (#2453767)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: eddie1

From the BBC News website:

'Gurkhas win right to stay in UK

A group of retired Gurkhas fighting for the right to settle in Britain have won their immigration test case, their lawyers have said.
Five ex-Gurkhas and the widow of another Gurkha veteran took their case to the High Court in London.
They were challenging immigration rules which said that those who retired from the British Army before 1997 did not have an automatic right to stay.
The judgement could affect some 2,000 former Gurkhas.
The regiment moved its main base from Hong Kong to the UK in 1997 and the government had argued that Gurkhas discharged before that date were unlikely to have strong residential ties with the UK.
That meant those who wanted to settle in the UK had to apply for British residence and could be refused and deported.

'Common sense'
The judge, Mr Justice Blake, said the Gurkhas' long service, conspicuous acts of bravery and loyalty to the Crown all pointed to a "moral debt of honour" and gratitude felt by British people.
Laywer Martin Howe said: "Today we have seen a tremendous and historic victory for the gallant Gurkha veterans of Nepal.
"This is a victory that restores honour and dignity to deserving soldiers who faithfully served in Her Majesty's armed forces.
"It is a victory for common sense; a victory for fairness; and a victory for the British sense of what is right." '

Thank God for common sense!

Pete Seeger said "Working for peace is like adding sand to a basket on one side of a giant scale, trying to tip it our way despite enormous weight on the opposite side; but if we get enough people adding sand with teaspoons, even if everybody else is laughing at us, we can tip the scales."

We were working for something else here but, in signing the petition we were adding our teaspoon!

Eddie

---

30 Sep 08 - 12:11 PM (#2453869)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: sapper82

Good news indeed!

---

30 Sep 08 - 04:07 PM (#2454124)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Bra
From: Charley Noble

Amazingly good news!

Three cheers for justice, and one for the Queen!

And ship the naysayers overseas where they can earn their right to a Royal British Army pension.


Cheerily,
Charley Noble

---

30 Sep 08 - 05:12 PM (#2454178)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: GUEST,lox

Fantastic.

I am smiling from ear to ear.

What a great day.

The British have given themselves good reason to be proud and call their nation great.

---

30 Sep 08 - 05:13 PM (#2454179)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: GUEST,Ivan

This is great news!

Can't believe that this government refused to allow more than 2,000 Gurkhas to settle here, who had SERVED and FOUGHT FOR this country, while at the same time having allowed at least tens of thousands of fundamentalist Muslims from Algeria, Saudi, Somalia, etc. to come here, who then FIGHT AGAINST this country!

---

30 Sep 08 - 05:15 PM (#2454185)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: GUEST,lox

"tens of thousands of fundamentalist Muslims from Algeria, Saudi, Somalia, etc. to come here, who then FIGHT AGAINST this country!"

Gosh - I'm amazed that this didn't get on to the news ...

---

30 Sep 08 - 05:45 PM (#2454207)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Teribus

Absolutely fantastic news - Certainly made my day.

---

30 Sep 08 - 06:21 PM (#2454240)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Bra
From: GUEST,Oakville

I saw it on the news tonight. I saw that old tart Joanna Lumley RAF (Rough as F**k) who is normally fond of young men moving among them. Is an old Gurkha slipping her one ?

---

30 Sep 08 - 06:22 PM (#2454241)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: McGrath of Harlow

Great news.

Good to have something on which we can all agree, whatever our differences about other things. (I set aside that odd GUEST a couple of posts back.)

---

30 Sep 08 - 06:25 PM (#2454243)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: McGrath of Harlow

Actually it was a dozen posts back.

---

30 Sep 08 - 07:17 PM (#2454280)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jack Campin

: As an ex-serviceman, I am naturally biased in favour of the Gurkhas, for whom I have
: great admiration and respect. They put the fear of God up the Argentinian soldiers
: during the Falklands War (apparently), and I'm not surprised---their reputation
: as fighters,especially at close quarters,is legendary.

The way I had this episode described: they went over the battlefield at Goose Green slitting the throats of wounded and defenceless Argentinian soldiers while wearing Walkmans to drown out the screams.

Maybe no more murderously ghoulish than much of what British soldiers have done in the last couple of decades, but let's cut this sanctificatory crap. They were hired killers in it for the money just like the rest of the British Army.

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01 Oct 08 - 04:32 AM (#2454522)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Bra
From: GUEST,Lauro

Ah isn't that nice. Thanks Jack for that gem of information.


"The way I had this episode described: they went over the battlefield at Goose Green slitting the throats of wounded and defenceless Argentinian soldiers while wearing Walkmans to drown out the screams".

They will do well in Britains knife society. I think we are around three a week in London, four a week in Manchester and twice that in Bradford.

Great, more leeches, and leeches that can use a blade !

---

01 Oct 08 - 04:33 AM (#2454523)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Penny S.

Joanna Lumley was involved because her father was an officer with the Gurkhas. Having met her in the village where her parents lived, the description above is pretty nasty. She would go round the village with a binbag picking up other people's rubbish. She was very sympathetic to my sister, when she was heavily pregnant with twins and had to rest at some local do. She's a very nice person.

And I agree with the decision, and the judge's opinion about honour.

I gather that our own nationals also used rather nasty methods to deal with the Argentinians. Nasty business all round. As is the way that most nations deal with ex-military.

Did anyone notice the name of the barrister put up by the government to oppose the case? Very indigenous.

Penny

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01 Oct 08 - 05:15 AM (#2454543)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Bra
From: GUEST,Lauro

Penny,if an older guy favours much younger women, he tends to get called a dirty old man. When an old rough one like this woman chases young guys people like yourself tend to ignore it.

Sorry I strongly disagree with the decision and these cutthroats as Jack pointed out are no assest to us.

You say her father was an officer in the regiment, was he a Tiddy Wink ?

---

01 Oct 08 - 05:17 AM (#2454545)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

A statue as a tribute to the Gurkhas' bravery, courage and loyalty will be unveiled in Maidstone tomorrow.

Well, slagging off Joanna Lumley makes a change from slagging off mudcat members! LOL. No need for any of it though.

Wars are terrible things and atrocities happen on both sides. My father worked with the Gurkhas and his experiences with them are different to those that were described to Jack Campin.

hired killers in it for the money just like the rest of the British Army.

No, that is not a fair description of the British Army.

---

01 Oct 08 - 06:48 AM (#2454585)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Bra
From: GUEST,Lauro

Nice to see so much support for men who take up arms and kill. So cutting throats is okay with you guys ?

---

01 Oct 08 - 07:17 AM (#2454600)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Mississippi Saxaphone

Great news indeed. Common sense has prevailed.

---

01 Oct 08 - 05:57 PM (#2455183)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Teribus

"The way I had this episode described: they went over the battlefield at Goose Green slitting the throats of wounded and defenceless Argentinian soldiers while wearing Walkmans to drown out the screams."

Taking the first one Campin Jack, I think that they would have a bit of trouble doing that, don't you? For a start to slit someone's throat, whether wearing a "walkman" or not, you would first and foremost have to be there.

From account of the action at Goose Green:
The British force consisted of three rifle, one patrol, one support and the HQ company of Lieutenant-Colonel Herbert 'H' Jones' 2nd Battalion the Parachute Regiment (2 Para) which had the following support: three 105mm artillery pieces with 960 shells from 29 Commando Regiment, Royal Artillery; one MILAN anti-tank missile platoon; Scout helicopters, and at dusk, air support was provided by three Royal Air Force Harriers later in the battle. HMS Arrow shelled the Argentine advanced positions. Lieutenant-Colonel Jones commanded the battalion.

Account of Initial Landing:
The 4,000 men of 3 Commando Brigade were put ashore as follows: 2nd battalion of the Parachute Regiment (2 Para) from the RORO ferry Norland and 40 Commando (Royal Marines) from the amphibious ship HMS Fearless were landed at San Carlos (Blue Beach), 3 Para from the amphibious ship HMS Intrepid were landed at Port San Carlos (Green Beach) and 45 Commando from RFA Stromness were landed at Ajax Bay (Red Beach). Notably the waves of 8 LCUs and 8 LCVPs were led by Major Ewen Southby-Tailyour who had commanded the Falklands detachment only a year previously. 42 Commando on the liner SS Canberra was a tactical reserve. Units from the Royal Artillery, Royal Engineers etc. and tanks were also put ashore with the landing craft, the Round table class LSL and mexeflote barges. Rapier missile launchers were carried as underslung loads of Sea Kings for rapid deployment.

By dawn the next day they had established a secure beachhead from which to conduct offensive operations. From there Brigadier Thompson's plan was to capture Darwin and Goose Green before turning towards Port Stanley. Now, with the British troops on the ground, the Argentine Air Force began the night bombing campaign against them using Canberra bomber planes until the last day of the war (14 June).

Any mention there of 1st Battalion of the 7th Gurkhas Jack?? They were the only ones down there, so how did they manage to wander around slitting the throats of wounded men??

Gurkhas by the bye were deployed when they did land to West Falkland where there was no fighting at all, on the advance to Stanley they took part on the advance on Mount William on the right flank of the Scots Guards who fought to take Mount Tumbledown, 45 Commando Royal Marines were on their left flank.

"Maybe no more murderously ghoulish than much of what British soldiers have done in the last couple of decades, but let's cut this sanctificatory crap. They were hired killers in it for the money just like the rest of the British Army."

Here is the position on that bit of arrant nonsense - Under international law, according to Protocol 1 Additions to the Geneva Conventions of 1949, Gurkhas serving as regular uniformed soldiers are not mercenaries.

---

01 Oct 08 - 09:47 PM (#2455310)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Penny S.

Would the remarks about the army being hired killers be by comparison with some other state where the army is drafted? Perhaps armies should be doing it for nothing. The criticisms don't somehow sound as if they come from a pacifist.

Penny

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01 Oct 08 - 10:04 PM (#2455317)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Penny S.

More on Joanna. She has a long marriage with a man 8 years younger than her - doesn't sound like a particularly revolting age gap to me. And she runs her life, according to an interview in the Guardian on the principle of kindness.

"She's not a Buddhist, though. Does she believe in God?

'Decca,' she laughs. 'I believe in virtually everything. I do, I do. But most of all, kindness. All you have to be is kind. That's all you need. Once you've got that it virtually rules out everything else.'"

She's a decent person, and undeserving of crude invective.

Penny

---

02 Oct 08 - 08:18 PM (#2455994)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Bra
From: Charley Noble

There's a whole lot in the above posts that doesn't translate across the Great Pond, if that's important.

I do appreciate the effort Teribus has made to correct the record of where the Gurkas were in the battle to retake the Falklands, and I do assume his facts are correct. We often disagree on policies but he is a good historian.

I do take heart that many Gurkas will eventually benefit by this ruling.

Charley Noble

---

03 Oct 08 - 03:34 AM (#2456154)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: CET

Teribus, congratulations on your ongoing attempts to drill facts into the heads of some of the ignorant bigots that hang around this forum. (And I'm not referring to people who people who just differ from me politically) I sometimes think you are tilting at windmills, but more power to your elbow.

That Jack Campin would put forward "The way I had this episode described" as evidence in support of his position gives you a good idea of its quality.

I hadn't realized that other foreign soldiers had the right to settle in Britain after four years service.

Edmund

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03 Oct 08 - 06:07 AM (#2456221)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

I hadn't realized that other foreign soldiers had the right to settle in Britain after four years service.

I did wonder about that too and asked Eddie1 about it in a pm. He clarified it for me and hopefully he'll post a reply here.

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03 Oct 08 - 06:11 AM (#2456224)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Bra
From: GUEST,Salford Sue

And why not eanjay. Every other whaf and stay can come to the UK and enjoy our National Health system and benefits. Let them all in, with their police records that we never hear bout, or their mental health problem we never hear about either. Oh we hear about them in court after they have taken a life.

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03 Oct 08 - 06:13 AM (#2456225)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

Wow! That was quick :)

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03 Oct 08 - 06:16 AM (#2456227)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Peace

"or their mental health problem we never hear about either"

I quote that from the Guest without comment, but I have a half dozen on the very tip of my tongue.

---

03 Oct 08 - 06:21 AM (#2456230)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

If you look at my post on 16/09/08 9.10am, you'll see that I too do not want the likes of Abu Hamza in this country living in luxury when several million people here who have paid taxes, NI etc. all their adult life are living in fuel poverty.

I am not getting into all of that in this thread - it is a different issue.

---

03 Oct 08 - 06:23 AM (#2456231)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

My reply was to the Guest post

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03 Oct 08 - 06:29 AM (#2456235)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Peace

The Gurkhas have been remarkable. The thought of NOT allowing them citizenship is disgusting. Reminds me of those bastards who buy puppies then set them loose when the puppy grows a little. I don't think the British are like that. Guest does his/her best to tell us otherwise, but hey, the world has lots of arseholes in it. IMO.

---

03 Oct 08 - 12:03 PM (#2456483)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: eddie1

I'll try to clarify the situation once more.

Retired soldiers from Commonwealth countries who served in the British Army for more than four years have, and have had for some time, the right to UK citizenship, full army pension, health care etc.

After considerable pressure, the Government extended this last year to Gurkhas who retired after 1st July 1997 - the date the HQ of the Brigade of Gurkhas moved from Hong Kong to the UK.

Those Gurkhas who retired prior to that date had to apply on an individual basis to remain in the Uk and even the few who were granted permission, based on the strength of their "Contact to th UK" were still left with a pension which was a mere pittance compared with those who retired after this magic date. This group - around 2000 and getting fewer as old age and failing health take there tolls - is what the current action is about.

A lot of Mudcatters with better wordskills than I have said why they feel the existing, hopefully now to be remedied, situation is totally wrong. If however, as a result of these test cases being successful we are faced with hordes of Gurkha pensioners rushing round robbing, mugging and slitting throats while listening to Walkmans (or is it Walkmen?) Then I will admit I was wrong from the outset.

Eddie

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03 Oct 08 - 12:09 PM (#2456485)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Backwoodsman

"If however, as a result of these test cases being successful we are faced with hordes of Gurkha pensioners rushing round robbing, mugging and slitting throats while listening to Walkmans"

It'll never happen, except in the cesspit of Lauro's (a.k.a. Windsor Knot?) unhinged mind, Eddie!

---

03 Oct 08 - 12:12 PM (#2456489)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

If however, as a result of these test cases being successful we are faced with hordes of Gurkha pensioners rushing round robbing, mugging and slitting throats while listening to Walkmans (or is it Walkmen?) Then I will admit I was wrong from the outset.

Brilliant, I love it.

LOL

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03 Oct 08 - 12:37 PM (#2456513)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

I have taken this from the Daily Express today:

The Gurkhas successfully overturned immigration rules which gave them no automatic right to stay in the UK if they retired from the British Army before 1997.

In an embarrassing U-turn, Home Secretary Jacqui Smith agreed to review all Gurkha immigration cases by the end of the year.

But Joanna fears the Government's commitment may be short-lived and she is urging people to sign a petition on her website www.gurkhajustice.org.uk which she plans to present to Gordon Brown.

Joanna 62, whose father fought alongside the Gurkhas in the Second World War, has promised to take her fight all the way to the steps of 10 Downing Street.

SIGN JOANNA'S PETITION TO ALLOW ALL GURKHAS TO STAY IN THE UK NOW!

"There is a real danger that the Government will fudge this opportunity and bring in new rules that still discriminate against pre-1997 retirees," she told the Daily Express yesterday.

"I want to make sure the Government changes the law immediately."

I have just joined this campaign. I have been unable to make a link straight to Joanna's petition but there is a link that works here.

36,915 signatures on the other petition.

---

03 Oct 08 - 12:50 PM (#2456524)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

managed it :-)

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03 Oct 08 - 04:05 PM (#2456656)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Bra
From: GUEST,guest eerehs

have just signed - it is not the sort of thing i would normally do but after reading some of the sanctimonious (probably the wrong spelling but i am sure you all know what i mean)CRAP that a certain person has poured into this post i felt that i had to join with you all and say loud and clear that they should be allowed to live in our country after the way they have helped to protect our freedom and way of life and if a certain person is not happy with this then may be he should be the one to leave and take his poison with him!!

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03 Oct 08 - 04:16 PM (#2456667)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: eddie1

Thanks eerehs

Eddie

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04 Oct 08 - 03:16 PM (#2457249)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

I think the response from Teribus was a response to what Jack Campin said. You are of course right, it was an excellent response and very interesting too.

Lauro, I hadn't realised that the government are appealing the case, do you have a link to that?

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04 Oct 08 - 03:55 PM (#2457269)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

I can find this link where David Cameron has urged the government not to challenge the ruling but I cannot find anything that says they are going to. A link I gave yesterday said that in an embarrassing U-turn, Home Secretary Jacqui Smith agreed to review all Gurkha immigration cases by the end of the year.

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05 Oct 08 - 04:16 AM (#2457523)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Peace

Andy Kim was a writer/singer from the late 1960s. I met him once. Nice guy.

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05 Oct 08 - 05:51 AM (#2457558)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

The British High Court judge in the case condemned a government policy that allowed Gurkhas who had served in the British army after July 1997 to settle in the UK, but denied that right to those who had retired before that date, as "irrational and confusing". The judge gave the British Home Office three months to carry out an "urgent revisiting" of the policy. He also awarded costs against the government.

If this government has any sense (not holding my breath on that one) they most definitely will not appeal anything. They should be looking at positive ways of improving Britain. Lets just hope that they do not mess up this chance they have been given by the High Court.

---

09 Oct 08 - 09:00 AM (#2461001)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

Having joined Joanna Lumley's campaign I have received this email. Sorry I cannot link it but I hope that people will read it all.

Thank you so much for signing the Gurkha Justice petition, and joining our campaign.

Already, over 33,000 people have signed: an extraordinary response in support of an extraordinary group of people. We've had great coverage for the campaign in the media across the world, and with excellent support from our UK papers.

We must be clear. We're not looking for a Government "review" of cases of ex-Gurkhas. We're not looking at a slight amendment in the law, a way of getting around the High Court's terrific judgement last week.

We demand the full, fundamental change in law that will allow all retired Gurkhas the right to live here.

In November, I plan to go to Downing Street and present the Gurkha Justice petition to the Government on your behalf. I want the petition to be so big, so huge, that they simply can't fail to listen.

To make the biggest possible impact, we really need more people to sign: lots more. I want this to be one of the biggest petitions ever handed to the Government, to show our support for the Gurkha cause.

Your support for the campaign is a fantastic boost: thank you so much. But, if possible, I need to ask you to help in two other ways, to encourage others to sign.

Firstly, ask all of your friends and colleagues to sign up to the Gurkha Justice Campaign at www.gurkhajustice.org.uk - please do forward them this email, or email or contact them directly yourself.

And secondly, you can now download a petition form for signing from
www.gurkhajustice.org.uk/gurkha_campaign_petition_form.pdf. Please download and print some copies, and ask friends and colleagues who have not signed on line to sign up. Please do pass it round (some friends of mine have run street stalls asking people for their signatures - I'm not asking you to go that far!) and return completed sheets to me at the address on the form by the end of October.

Finally - thank you again for your support. Together, we can finally right this wrong.

With warmest good wishes,

Joanna Lumley
for the Gurkha Justice Campaign

She really is a remarkable person.

37,652 signatures on the government petition for which links have already been given [many times :)].

---

25 Oct 08 - 07:54 PM (#2476138)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: GUEST,AlexTiefling

Let's hope none of the Gurkhas were waiting for medals. I see on the world press this morning that a British Royal Marine stole medals from his colleagues at their barracks and sold them through his uncle on ebay.

It is hard to believe a British soldier could stoop so low as to steal the one thing any soldier holds dear, his medals. One would have thought a Royal Marine would have had some morals, clearly not.

The British Royal Marine Craig Firth was told by Judge Paul Darlow, "It is difficult to put into words how despicable his conduct was. The judge said what he did "lifts it beyond the normal breach of trust."

Craig stole the medals from fellow marines at Bickleigh Barracks, Plymouth, between 2005 and last year.

Both him and his uncle pleaded guilty to the theft of medals from fellow marines and the theft of another package of 31 medals belonging to the Ministry of Defence.   

It didn't stop there, they also admitted stealing a computer, digital camera and sat nav, as well as other items from the stores of 42 Commando Royal Marines.

The judge said the value of the medals was £25,000 to a collector. But he added: "It does not begin to reflect the value to those men who earned these medals. They are incapable of value."

He said Firth had "plundered" his colleagues' "treasured possessions."

---

26 Oct 08 - 06:12 AM (#2476309)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: GUEST,Hogspear

Pretty bad all round.

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07 Nov 08 - 11:17 AM (#2487629)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: eddie1

I received the following e-mail from Joanna Lumley today (yes, she and I are very close!)

"I have some great news about the Gurkha Justice campaign that I want to update you on.

Firstly, we now have over 120,000 online signatures with over 20,000 returned in the post. If you haven't done so already, please spread the word to all your online contacts and ask them to sign up online too at www.gurkhajustice.org.uk

Second, there have been some exciting steps forward in the House of Commons.

Earlier this week the Home Affairs Committee of the House of Commons considered the right of Gurkhas to settle in the UK. The committee considered evidence from a range of different people, including our lawyers, a submission from me, and representatives from a number of Gurkha organisations.

I'm so pleased to be able to tell you that they agreed with us entirely, and have sent a letter to the Home Secretary urging her to take "urgent action to redress the currently unfair situation by extending settlement rights in the UK to all Gurkhas". You can read the full text of the letter at http://tinyurl.com/5ou59q

This is a big step forward, with an influential cross-Party committee of MPs backing our cause. This is on top of the High Court's ruling in late September that the Government's action was "unlawful and unfair".

But just unbelievably, the Government has still not changed the law, and has still not yet agreed to offer a fair deal for Gurkhas.

In this week in particular, when we have seen the tragic death of a Gurkha serving in the British Army in Afghanistan, and four soldiers from the Royal Gurkha Rifles awarded the Military Cross, we need to redouble our efforts to make the Government see sense.

Please do whatever you can to ask as many people as you can to sign the petition at www.gurkhajustice.org.uk - I want to take a simply huge petition to Downing Street on the 20th November.

And I'd like you to join me in Parliament Square, Westminster, at 11am on Thursday 20th November, before we hand in the petition. I want to stand together with you and our Gurkha heroes and show just how strong the support for the Gurkhas cause is. Will you join me? I hope to see you there.

Finally, especially for those who can join me on the 20th of November, you can buy Gurkha Justice t-shirts, sweatshirts, bags and more from our online shop with Spreadshirt at http://gurkhajustice.spreadshirt.net. Wear yours with pride - I certainly do - and for the next few days only (until this Sunday), Spreadshirt are offering free postage on all items to show their support for the campaign. Simply use the coupon code GURKHAFREE when ordering, and the postage for your items should be free.

With warmest good wishes,

Joanna
www.gurkhajustice.org.uk

PS. On Sunday, millions of us across the Country will be honouring those who fought and died for us on Remembrance Sunday.

One hundred thousand Gurkhas fought in the First World War. They served in the battlefields of France in the Loos, Givenchy, Neuve Chapelle and Ypres; in Mesopotamia, Persia, Suez Canal and Palestine against Turkish advance, Gallipoli and Salonika. One detachment served with Lawrence of Arabia. 250,000 Nepalese Gurkhas served in the Second World War.

It's time to repay our debt of honour to them. www.gurkhajustice.org.uk"


If you you agree with this petition and haven't already signed, please do so now although it looks like it's well on the way to succeeding already!

I noticed that last Tuesday, the 122nd British soldier was killed in Afghanistan - a private in the Ghurka Rifles!

A big thankyou to all Mudcatters who have shown their support.

Eddie

---

24 Apr 09 - 02:15 AM (#2617526)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: eddie1

Finally, finally, finally! Six months after the decision by the High Court to give the Government until the end of 2008 to right the injustice perpetrated against retired members of the Brigade of Gurkhas, we can expect a statement from the Home Secretary today.

Let's hope the news is worth the wait!

BBC News Website

Eddie

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24 Apr 09 - 02:24 AM (#2617532)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Peace

Indeed.

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24 Apr 09 - 06:06 AM (#2617632)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: eddie1

The British Government is at it again

BBC News Website

It seems they are trying to wriggle out of a High Court ruling and now restrict the right to UK residency to only certain Gurkhas -

"We will be more generous where there has been valour, long service and where there are medical conditions as well.

"It has never been a proposition that all Gurkhas pre-1997 should be given grants or settlements. Along with their spouses and close dependants, that would be around 100,000 people."

Where on Earth does he get his figure of 100,000?

"In September, Mr Justice Blake ruled that instructions given by the Home Office to immigration officials were unlawful and needed urgent revision.

He said the Gurkhas' long service, conspicuous acts of bravery and loyalty to the Crown all pointed to a "moral debt of honour" and gratitude felt by British people."

The government promised to revise its guidance, but in March 2009, the Gurkhas returned to the High Court to try and enforce the ruling."

It would seem that the Government is trying to replace one set of unlawful instructions with another set, equally unlawful and discriminatory.

I have just talked with a retired Gurkha officer (English) and we both feel quite ashamed to be British.

Eddie

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24 Apr 09 - 09:57 AM (#2617753)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

These rules on the eligibility of Gurkha veterans to live in the UK have taken the government months to come up with and they are a disgrace. It is clear that Joanna Lumley feels angry about them and I feel the same.

Have they deliberately come up with ridiculous criteria that hardly anybody can satisfy?

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25 Apr 09 - 04:57 AM (#2618385)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Teribus

Brown and his clowns will not be in power for much longer. Hopefully this will be put right by the next Government in power.

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25 Apr 09 - 05:25 AM (#2618388)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Eric the Viking

This is a national disgrace. We (Our government) let any rag tag and bobtail bunch of scroungers, thieves and parasites from anywhere in the world in by their thousands yet refuse entry to the very people who fought side by side with British troops and continue to do so. It shows just how much loyalty to Britain is worth !!Some git minister said on TV last night "that we don't want possibly thousands of them as new immigrants". I'd sooner have thousands of Gurkhas and their families than the shite that's here and keeps coming.

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25 Apr 09 - 07:14 AM (#2618408)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: GUEST,AlexTiefling

I back the government on this one. We are an island. We are running out of space as it is. There is no automatic right. They were well paid to do a job. The job is over and that is the end of the story.

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25 Apr 09 - 07:31 AM (#2618415)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: eddie1

I find it really difficult to back a Government that takes six months to come up with one sheet of paper.

Eddie

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25 Apr 09 - 08:21 AM (#2618428)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

What the British government is doing here is shameful.

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25 Apr 09 - 09:08 AM (#2618443)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: GUEST,AlexTiefling

No it is not my dear. What it is doing is thinking of you and I and not setting a trend for Tom, Dick and Harry to make claims and make themselves comfortable in the UK.

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25 Apr 09 - 09:29 AM (#2618455)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Eric the Viking

I'm sorry? "What it is doing is thinking of you and I and not setting a trend for Tom, Dick and Harry to make claims and make themselves comfortable in the UK".

I thought we had the commonwealth and the European union. Anyone from those states can come here and does freely. No end of illegal immigrants of many nationalities as well.Strikes me that we haven't been too choosey in the past.We should welcome those who show commitment no matter what race, colour or religion, but we don't want those who don't reciprocate. Lets kick out some of them instead.

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25 Apr 09 - 12:50 PM (#2618544)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: WalkaboutsVerse

As a respectful tourist, I enjoyed the following VISIT to Nepal, and hope some Nepalese can enjoy a VISIT to England. Further, I'm glad they have recently become a republic, and hope and pray that England will soon follow. As both Tibetans and Nepalese have a name for it, I've use the English one...

Poem 23 of 230: ABOVE EVEREST

When flying from Nepal to Thailand,
    I was given a "good-side" seat;
And, as I looked out the plane window,
    The view I saw was really neat.

For breaking through a thick sheet of cloud
    Were the high Himalayan peaks;
And, rising the highest of them all,
    Mount Everest - heaven bespeaks!

From walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com
Or blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse

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29 Apr 09 - 08:40 AM (#2621136)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

Gordon Brown is climbing down and these ridiculous rules should be reviewed in a few weeks. He has had a lot of pressure from many MPs including some from his own party.

Joanna Lumley has been wonderful with her commitment to this.

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29 Apr 09 - 12:17 PM (#2621288)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

good news

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29 Apr 09 - 05:40 PM (#2621492)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: eddie1

This is wonderful news. I'm almost beginning to believe we live in a democracy after all.

BBC News


I would loive to say more, but crusty old hardass that I am, I have tears in my eyes.

Eddie

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29 Apr 09 - 07:30 PM (#2621560)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: GUEST,lox

I couldn't help laughing at David Cameron -

"Hey ... look at me ... I'm on their side too ... ask me a question ... take a picture of me with my arm around Joanna Lumley"

I'll be voting for the liberal democrats next time.

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30 Apr 09 - 12:17 AM (#2621662)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: eddie1

I see that on the Justice For Gurkhas website
Justice For Gurkhas
where they have been mounting a petition calling for that justice
it states, "Signatures so far: 200640 at 04:45 BST on Thursday 30 April 2009."
Maybe someone from the Government should have read that before their sad efforts.

Eddie

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30 Apr 09 - 01:01 AM (#2621680)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Bra
From: TRUBRIT

Tried to post this before and was told I am not connectedto the Intenet so trying again I am a military brat and haven't done any research but I know the Gurkhas were revered by my parents..........just revered, My father called them the bravest of the brave.....

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30 Apr 09 - 05:22 AM (#2621761)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

My father was in the army too and he spoke so highly of the Ghurkhas. They most certainly do deserve to live in this country. The government got this one totally wrong. All those months it has taken them to come up with that pitiful one sheet of paper.

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21 May 09 - 09:29 AM (#2637552)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Leadfingers

Looks like the petition had a good effect !!

          Reply

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21 May 09 - 03:49 PM (#2637864)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)

This is excellent news.

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28 May 09 - 01:27 PM (#2642881)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: eddie1

I'm a bit late coming in on this as I'm in Germany and have only just got access to a pc. All I have to say is:-

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But, and it's quite a big but, what about pension rates?

Eddie

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28 May 09 - 01:32 PM (#2642887)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: katlaughing

That IS good news!!

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13 Oct 10 - 06:58 PM (#3006421)
Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)

Just an update on this story, the Gurkhas were back in court again today.

Nepalese Gurkha veterans lost the latest round of their legal battle in London with the Ministry of Defence over their British army pensions.

A test case, which would affect some 25,000 veterans, is seeking equal pension payments with soldiers who retired after a July 1, 1997 cut-off date, when the Gurkha headquarters was moved from Hong Kong to Britain.

They are paid a third of the pension that Gurkha veterans who retired after the 1997 date receive, which is on a par with their British colleagues.

The case was dismissed at the High Court earlier this year, but the British Gurkha Welfare Society then took it to the Court of Appeal.

However, the appeal was rejected today.

The Gurkhas, recruited from Nepal, are a long-standing part of the British army, with a reputation for ferocity and bravery.

Retired Major Tikendra Dal Dewan, chairman of the British Gurkha Welfare Society, expressed his disappointment after the appeal rejection and said he would consider taking the case to the European courts.

"There is a cost benefit to the UK in resolving this issue, let alone the moral obligation of ensuring a respectable quality of life for these elderly Gurkhas and their families, all of whom have given great and devoted service to the UK's armed forces," he said.

About 200,000 Gurkhas fought for Britain in World War I and World War II and more than 45,000 have died in British uniform.

Around 3,500 now serve in the British army, including in Afghanistan. Gurkhas have won 13 Victoria Crosses, the top military award for valour.

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