BS: SARS

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River
Date: 28 Jun 03 - 10:51 PM

What are you? Stupid or sompn'? Sars is a illness you retread! Them guys in Newfieland have probally got a soar back and a soar knee. Better than a soar you-know-what, eh? Get a job you looser!

- BDiBR

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: Raptor
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 03:57 PM

2 New cases of sars in St.Johns NFLD Today at the Hospital

Buddy came in with a sar back and a sar Knee.

Raptor

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: black walnut
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 10:36 AM

(Just to be clear, the WORST part of all this is that the newborn twin isn't allowed into the hospital, which means that my niece is VERY limited on how long she can stay with her sick baby.)

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: black walnut
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 08:25 AM

THE NEW NORMAL ISN'T NORMAL ("The New Normal" is what they are calling the increased restrictions due to SARS):

The twins are almost 2 weeks old. The baby boy has had heart surgery and will be in hospital for several more weeks. Because of the SARS restrictions at Toronto hospitals, only 2 people (parents or caregivers) are allowed to visit any one child. Obviously in this case, the two parents are the visitors. The other twin isn't even allowed in, so my niece, who is breastfeeding, has to seriously limit her visiting time with the twin who is in the hospital. The sick baby needs to be held, rocked, and sung to, but parents (who do not live in Toronto) can do very little of it, and the rest of us who live in the city and could do it are not allowed in!

That's "The New Normal". In this case it is very harsh and seems very wrong.

~b.w.

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: black walnut
Date: 10 Jun 03 - 12:50 PM

Thanks mink
(and Kat)
(and Steve)
~b.w.

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: GUEST,mink
Date: 10 Jun 03 - 09:16 AM

Congrats & best wishes to all concerned, Walnut.
Hope the poorly one is soon on the mend and that it won't be long til you can visit & have a cuddle.

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: black walnut
Date: 10 Jun 03 - 07:39 AM

Well she had them!!!!, and her husband was able to be with her (he hadn't been allowed in to any of her appointments during pregnancy because of the SARS restrictions). Twins, 7lb 11 oz EACH, and one of them is in Sick Kid's Hospital now awaiting heart surgery. I wish we could visit, but we aren't allowed in!!!!!
(Yes, SARS does still affect some of us in Toronto).

~b.w.

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: black walnut
Date: 09 Jun 03 - 11:38 AM

SARS. Ugh. My niece is delivering twins at Mt. Sinai Hospital in Toronto today. Some of you are up-to-date on SARS and will know how seriously enormous that is.

~b.w.

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 26 May 03 - 02:48 PM

Heard someone on the radio today suggesting that our Minister for Health doesn't know his SARS from his Ebola.

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 26 May 03 - 01:30 PM

From Today's IRISH TIMES

It has emerged that a suspected SARS case is reported in Donegal A possible case of the SARS virus is being monitored at Letterkenny General Hospital.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 26 May 03 - 01:07 PM

Three new deaths and eight new cases reported in Toronto, Monday May 26.

Excerpts from:

Wall Street Journal

FRIDAY, MAY 23, 2003

Theories about the origin of SARS:

At a recent conference, a member of Russia's respected Academy of Medicine stated that the SARS virus was a man-made cocktail of mumps and measles, according to Russian news reports.

The Jamestown Foundation, a Washington-based think tank, has written that "...there are compelling reasons, however unsettling, to at least ask whether there might be any linkage between SARS and China's biological-warfare efforts."

Nobody yet knows exactly where SARS comes from, it has been traced to southern China's Guangdong province, where millions of birds, farm animals and people live in close proximity, creating a potential breeding ground for new viruses such as SARS.

Mr. Wickramasinghe is a professor of applied mathematics and astronomy at Cardiff University in Britain, and his SARS theory is being published in the Lancet, an august scientific journal.

"With respect to the SARS outbreak, a prima facie case for a possible space incidence can already be made," Prof. Wickramasinghe and his colleagues write in a letter published Friday in the Lancet.

In explaining the origin of SARS, Prof. Wickramasinghe suggests that the virus hitched a ride on a comet and then drifted down to Earth. He notes that two years ago Indian scientists launched a high-altitude balloon and recovered a large amount of bacteria from a height of 41 kilometers (25.4 miles). But attempts to culture several of the "unusual" bacterial strains failed. "The conclusion is that micro-organisms are coming from space," says Prof. Wickramasinghe, who is also director of the Cardiff Centre of Astrobiology.

He has now expanded on those findings to explain SARS. "A small amount of the culprit virus introduced into the stratosphere could make a first tentative fallout east of the great mountain range of the Himalayas, where the stratosphere is thinnest," he and his colleagues write in the Lancet.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: black walnut
Date: 26 May 03 - 10:40 AM

There must be a huge number of people in your situation. It must be very frustrating. Keep trying the 'hotline'. I hope you get through soon. Hang in there!

~b.w.

(P.S. People reading from outside Toronto may not know that the Scarborough General is just one of the hospitals affected.)

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 26 May 03 - 09:57 AM

Well, it turns out that the new outbreak has people who have visited Scarborough General Hospital between May 12 and 23 isolating themselves and calling a hotline. I was there twice. I'm at home, although I can't afford the time off work and I've been dialing the "hotline" for 2 hours and can't get through.

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: black walnut
Date: 25 May 03 - 03:23 PM

Don't forget West Nile Virus! I think I'm going to have to build a mosquito proof hut in the garden.

At least the news isn't only about SARS anymore.

~b.w.

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: Burke
Date: 23 May 03 - 06:58 PM

An animal source for the virus may have been found, masked palm civets — a catlike animal that is served as food.

Andrea, how were your other half's travels? How crazy is it in China? Ari, what about Singapore?

What about Toronto with the new suspected cases? Or is Mad Cow the new disease of the week?

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: mouldy
Date: 10 May 03 - 04:18 AM

The other half is starting back from Bankok to Shenyang today, but is detouring after all via Shanghai, as he has heard Beijing airport is about closed down. T'will be interesting to find out if the rest of his project members are still there when he gets back!

Andrea

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: GUEST,ari
Date: 09 May 03 - 12:48 PM

hey all

from singapore (yes sars country i know...)

been pretty bad around here with a food distribution center hit and all, but things are starting to look up. M praying all this bad news is over and done with soon

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 May 03 - 12:21 PM

According to new estimates, less than 1 percent of patients aged 24 or younger die. This rises to 6 percent for those aged 25 to 44, 15 percent for those aged 45 to 64 and more than 50 percent for those aged over 65. Associated Press

The Spanish Influenza, with an eventual toll of about 22 million, had a fatality rate of 3%.

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: black walnut
Date: 08 May 03 - 08:23 AM

I've been thinking how easy it is in our culture to dismiss the seriousness of an illness by saying that it mostly affects 'the elderly'. (Not that you're doing that, Doug - it's just a comment in general). As I near the age of 50, I find it a bit squeamish that they are talking this week about the serious effect of SARS on 'the elderly', meaning a high risk (death rate of 50%)for those over 60. 60?!?! I used to think that the term elderly referred to people in their 80's and 90's. But even if the label was only referring to the most senior of senior citizens, I'd still think it was a pretty terrible way to have to suffer or die.

~b.w.

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: Doug_Remley
Date: 07 May 03 - 09:29 PM

Peg's reference to flu mortality rates is most apt. It is likely the press has reported this on a different proportion than other "flu" type outbreaks because they have not gotten expected answers from national and world health organizations, as in the past. SARS has not shown normal affect in culturation with a producable vaccine and this has led to medical care facilities to follow stringent bio-security measures in that any average patient population is already at risk of furthur infection, and, often at a weak immune level.

It seems too often that when simple sound-bites cannot further be ground into pablum for the six-o'clock news the press invents its own good news-bad news horror stories for the all important advertising dollar. Yes, SARS is bad news in that it has not been controlled, and we are forced away from loved ones in their time of need. If there is good news, the overall rate of mortality is the same as any bad flu. But, as with any bad flu, it is havoc on the elderly.

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: Bagpuss
Date: 07 May 03 - 11:35 AM

A New Scientist article which looks at the death rates from SARS particularly as it affects different age groups.

Bagpuss

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: mouldy
Date: 07 May 03 - 02:33 AM

Latest news (on BBC Radio) from Hong Kong mentions a possible 20%.

Andrea

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 06 May 03 - 08:17 PM

4% says you GUEST? Are you a credible source?

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=570&ncid=753&e=6&u=/nm/20030506/sc_nm/sars_deathrate_dc

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: Jeri
Date: 06 May 03 - 05:47 PM

SINCE NOVEMBER??!! I wonder if they've changed what they think the incubation period is, although I don't know many (any?) respiratory viruses that take 6 months to make you sick. I wonder what the disqualifying time limit is in the US. I'm out of the blood-donor loop too. Although I used to give regularly (they used to call me up and make an appointment because I have a slightly uncommon blood type), I don't these days because I get a migraine almost every time I donate.

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: sian, west wales
Date: 06 May 03 - 10:29 AM

I went in to give blood last Tuesday and, after going through all the usual questions about general health and sexual activity, they tacked on "have you been to A, B, C or Toronto since November 2002". November???? Well, yes, I had been home for Christmas so landed in Toronto, and also took a day shopping there ... so I got sat behind a special screen for a nurse to 'speak' to me.

As it happens, this nurse is also Canadian so we had a good gab. Seems that, until the previous Friday, they were only quizzing for people who had been in Toronto (or other infected area) in the last 4 weeks. Red Cross had upped the stakes only in the last 4 days. If I had had ANY sort of cough, cold or flu-like illness since returning, I would have been PERMANENTLY excluded from giving blood!

Coincidentally, I had only just been thinking that I had somehow got through the winter without my usual cold.

Seems to me that permanent exclusion is a bit drastic! I have bog-standard blood so I'm always being asked to come in. If I'd had even a sniffle - as I usually do - they'd have one less donor. There must be a better system.

(Already am permanently excluded from giving in Canada because I've lived in the UK.)

Sheesh.

sian

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: GUEST
Date: 06 May 03 - 08:31 AM

96 people out of a hundred will survive the illness. Think positive and get early treatment. There are worst things out there than SARS

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: mouldy
Date: 06 May 03 - 08:13 AM

Well my other half is out in the thick of it all at the moment. He mailed me from China about 11 days ago to say that paranoia was sweeping through Shenyang, where he works, and that he still reckoned the Chinese authorities were lying about the scale of things. He took himself off to Thailand for 2 weeks to escape, and is still there, due to return to China at the end of this week. This was an already planned trip over the (now cancelled) Chinese public holiday, and just brought forward a week or two. Now from his latest mail it looks like he may have to be quarantined for 2 weeks when he gets back, as his route in takes him via Beijing. The EU people on his project have pulled out, leaving no guidelines (it's an EU funded project), and his own company aren't issuing any either. So he is being pragmatic about it, and is quite prepared to be quarantined, he says, and put up at the EU's expense! He said he was fully expecting to get back and find that everyone had gone home!

Andrea

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: Burke
Date: 05 May 03 - 09:27 PM

Interesting analysis, but hard to view the page. See the New Scientist article mentioned near the beginning.

This site recalculated death rates by leaving out all those still sick (as suggested by the article) & come out much, much higher. The expectation seems to be that once all cases are resolved the death rate will be @10%

A couple of statements seem important to me:
The global CFR has risen steadily since the start of the epidemic but this is to be expected, say epidemiologists contacted by New Scientist. Early in an epidemic, a significant proportion of the total number of cases have neither recovered nor died. Some will eventually die and so move from the denominator to the numerator of the CFR, raising its value. The CFR moves towards the true value as time passes, unless the number of new cases explodes.

With many cases still unresolved, a better current estimate of the deadliness of SARS may be the number of deaths as a proportion of resolved cases. Those numbers for Hong Kong, Canada and Singapore are 15.8, 18.3 and 13.7 per cent. But these too could be misleading if, for example, it takes longer to recover from a disease than to die from it.

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 05 May 03 - 08:50 PM

I dunno. I'm not sure how dismissive of this event I should be on the grounds of media hype. After all, if you get this thing, you have a one in seven chance of dying. The virus can live for four or more days outside the body. The growth rate has not been brought under control. The mutation rate may be high. Now of course I don't think the sky is falling, but Bejjing, a city of 14 million, is almost shutdown. India has been inspired to say it has no cases when it used to have 19.

No, of course this isn't anything like AIDS or Ebola, but the death rate is far, far higher than West Nile, and the economic impact is already staggering, and growing.

Anyway, the only reason I meant to post was to point out a cite which has fascinated me since this thing started, although I have no undersatanding of its sponsor:

http://lassesen.com/sars/history.htm

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 May 03 - 05:25 PM

Thanks, beadie. I appreciate the explanation. Sorry if I was too pedantic.:-)

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: Forum Lurker
Date: 01 May 03 - 05:21 PM

I think the very lack of a vaccine suggests that it's not a weapon. Anyone working to weaponize microbes works on getting a cure, and a killed-virus vaccine would be about as easy to make as the weaponized virus itself.

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: beadie
Date: 01 May 03 - 08:57 AM

Kat, et al.

   My rant was not about the way in which the professionals are handling this disease so much as it is about the way the popular media is blowing it into a much more sensational crisis than it needs to be (hence, the "selling newspapers" bit). I apologize if my meaning was obscured.

I have a great deal of respect and trust for the health guardian organizations (WHO, CDC) and the local agencies (with, perhaps, the exception of the Beijing Health Department) seem to be doing a terrific job of informing the public of what is being done and what individuals need to worry about or not.

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: SINSULL
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 09:14 PM

Scientists have been warning for years that certain farming conditions found in places like China were an accident waiting to happen. I read an article years ago about the danger of a virus jumping species from swine to duck, for example, due to the practice of allowing both species to use the same pond. Duck ingests pig droppings and under the right conditions nature takes it course.

Most recover from this one so stay healthy and we'll see.

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 08:58 PM

Similar to the suggestions thta AIDS was the result of an American biological warfare experiment that went wrong.

And equally convincing...

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: Burke
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 08:24 PM

The fact that the genome of the SARS virus is different enough from other known viruses that there is at least some speculation that it is comes from a Chinese biological weapons experiment gone very wrong. See SARS CRISIS: DON'T RULE OUT LINKAGES TO CHINA'S BIOWARFARE from the Jamestown Foundation, which draws heavily on Russian speculation. It's been picked up by some news media; I found it first in a newspaper in India.

I know nothing about this organization. I even hesitate to mention it, but I think the 2nd & 3rd hand reports will be further digested by the news media with less of the conditionality than is in the Jamestown Foundation report.

Here is part of the conclusion:
As of late April, it remains impossible to conclude from the reported scientific research that the SARS virus is related to a man-made, or indeed, a military program. The key remaining question in this context involves the precise animal origin of this virus. If that animal source cannot be determined, then Kolesnikov's suggestion that it is man made deserves investigation.

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 08:04 PM

I'm not sure that in this context references to moose droppings when referring to the deaths in Toronto (this being "an analogy to a particular animal indigenous to that nation") would go down too well either.

Anyway, look after yourselves Toronto Mudcatters. The impression seems to be that things are under control.

I was a bit uneasy reading reports of politicians wading in, and sounding more concerned about the financial costs of a travel embargo, rather than whether it just might reduce the danger.

I'd have thought the last thing you'd want when you are trying to avoid a possible epidemic would be a load of stragers coming in and out, and distractions like that, making it necessary to take extra precautions to cut out additional risks of spreading something that isn't fully understood.

Shades of "Jaws" or "An Enemy of the People"...

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: Li'l Aussie Bleeder
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 07:42 PM

A certain Canadian Musician almost cleared a maquee of festival-goers last weekend at a festival in Western Australia, by telling them that he caught 'The SARS Express' from Toronto via Hong Kong to Australia. He omitted to mention that he came here at the beginning of March before all this business became such a scare. Now going back to Toronto via Hong Kong, that could be another matter!!!

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: SINSULL
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 07:26 PM

50 suspected cases in NYC.
Several Chinese officials have been fired for covering up or minimizing the outbreak.

No known cure but you may avoid infection by washing your hands.
Sounds like a plan to me.

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 04:03 PM

The spirit of Hester walks!!¦¬]
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 03:57 PM

beadie, I just wish you'd said it that way in the first place, I mean what you just said as an explanation of them not knowing it was so contagious, etc. I know it may seem overly-sensitive, but intimating ignorance by joking about them slipping on pando poo and hitting their head on a rock seemed a slur to Chinese to me.

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: GUEST,Forum Lurker
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 03:55 PM

A virus is a set of pieces of protein, which does absolutely nothing on its own. Once it gets into your cells, it takes over the cellular machinery, forcing your cell to make duplicate virii until there are so many the cell bursts. This is how they inflict damage. Bacteria are independent cells. Many bacteria do not need a host for any reason, and are not harmful. Those bacteria that are dangerous produce some toxic substance, either as a byproduct of their digestion process or as part of their cell wall. A virus is smaller, which is why some precautions are ineffective; antibiotics only work on bacteria, because they are targeted at the bacterium's cell wall.

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 03:41 PM

Some guy on the radio says that it's a virus so masks are a waste of time. My son's a virologist, and I still don't understand the difference between a virus, and a bacterium. Only explanation I got was that one can live on its own, and the other requires a host. Me I'm out if guests call.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: beadie
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 05:15 PM

Kat:
   Since when is referring to a geopolitical entity as the source of the offending bug a racist slur? And, for that matter, which of the myriad races that reside in China was I slurring?

   I doubt that the healthcare workers who were first infected and made ill or killed by the bug were all that careful, as the virulent nature of the disease was not known at the time. As in most epidemics spawned by new organisms, the first to contact it are hardest hit. More's the pity, but that only goes to demonstrate the danger of ignorance. These folks were ignorant (not a slam, just recognizing that they had no understanding of the bug) of the danger and were victimized. How many healthcare workers are being infected today? Considerably less, I would suppose, because of the tendency to use (dare I reprise) proper hygiene, hand washing, common sense, symptomatic treatment and judicious use of antibiotics where appropriate.

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: black walnut
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 02:15 PM

Toronto's door is open again to visitors. Certain wings of hospitals are allowing health workers to take off their masks again. It's a beautiful sunny day here with the trees just beginning to burst into bits of green. Spring has sprung! Gloom be gone.

~b.w.

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 02:06 PM

beadie, I still don't see why it requires an analogy to a particular animal indigenous to that nation... the whole statement just seems like a racial slur which served no purpose, but that's just my opinion.

I am sure the benefit of your experience would have been of great interest to the very careful healthcare workers who have either died of SARS or been made very ill by it. Sheesh!

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: beadie
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 01:45 PM

WHO. like CDC, puts out a whole lot of advisories that never make the front page, largely because of the fact that the subject isn't amenable to sensationalism. When the papers and broadcasters decide that an issue like SARS can be used to good advantage, watch out! I would suggest that there is a substantial amount of editorializing, enhancing, emphasizing, and general massaging to make the story sexier between the time that the WHO advisory is released and when the next edition hits the front porch. It is stories like this that turn normally respected media into clones of the Enquirer (SARS Made Bigfoot Rape Me and Father My Lovechild!).

   SARS is, undoubtedly, a significant public health problem, especially for a public that is woefully uninformed about management of such problems. But it is no more likely to be the end of the world as we know it than was AIDS, Ebola, West Nile, Anthrax, Yellow Fever, Polio, Swine Flu, or any other you might name.

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: black walnut
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 01:32 PM

I'm not sure I understand what the WHO gets out of the selling of newspapers. But I'm pretty sure that the effects of WHO advisories is big news.

~b.w.

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: beadie
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 10:05 AM

kat:
    Sorry about the dysfunctional post above.

    My apologies to all of the pandas who may have been offended by my earlier comment. (Seriously, when making a comment about China that requires an analogy to a particular animal indigenous to that nation, what better than the panda?)

After spending thirty years in various and sundry emergency rooms, ICUs, infectious disease wards and the like, I cannot help but be put off by the public's inordinate fear of these bugs. Hygiene, hand washing, common sense, symptomatic treatment and judicious use of antibiotics where appropriate will deal with the problem (Anthrax, what Anthrax?).

. . . . But it sure is a great way to sell newspapers . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: beadie
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 09:56 AM

kat:

Subject: RE: BS: SARS
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 04:26 PM

I think it is important to hear from people who are in thick of it, so to speak, such as black walnut, than to go on about what we perceive from news sources, only.

beadie, was it really necessary to include a racial slur in your posting? "Panda poop & hitting their head on a rock?"