BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Barry Finn
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 09:35 AM

Donuel, "New Hobo Society"?
See the thread on tent cities? They're becoming the new home grown population in the counntry's public parks. It's (Hobo Society) already here. It's been been here for awhile & it's just growing faster.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 09:34 AM

Where the trillion went?

Most of it went to the people who, six weeks or six months or a year ago (or whenever), sold the stock to those who sold it yesterday.   Some of will go to those who sold short in the last few weeks or so.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 09:09 AM

Yesterday billions of trades sold their shares at a loss which means they bought high and sold low. The money they lost can be added up to a trillion.2 dollars.

A relatively small 40 million trades were made while the value of the shares were going up.

Both Google and Apple are now at half of their all time high value.

The loss of money is real to the people who sold.

The people who did not sell but have a colection of shares in a money market account are now holding a less valued portfolio but can wait for value to someday return before cashing in.

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 08:50 AM

I agree with Dick G. I wonder where that trillion went....was it just on paper, or did that amount move from one set of hands to another.

I KNOW that if one bank buys another bank for 3 Billion, someone in the bought bank is gonna be pretty comfortable, no matter what happens to the depositors.

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 08:37 AM

Barry, keep an eye on the pirating of the ship carrying Soviet Tanks and ammo. It is a rich source of practical experience you could use.



What was that thread name last summer "surviving a Depression'?



A new hobo society could evolve that would need food chores and shelter in churches and private homes.

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 08:25 AM

"preferably located on large South Pacific island"

Personally, if you insist on living on Pacific islands, I say you either gotta be about 200 ft above current sea level or be able to breathe underwater...

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 08:22 AM

What I always wonder is, if the market lost a trillion dollars yesterday, who made the trillion?

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: SINSULL
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 08:19 AM

Barry - make it a mano o' war and we'll all sing shanties as we force our hostages to bail.

I brought it up at work and suggested we could all livetogether like on Walton's Mountain. From a cubicle far away came "I'd rather live under a bus."

My family - Nana + her 8 children and their families all lived in one huge house and survived the depression. They had to pool all their salaries. My mother worked for the phone company - meaning she went to work every day and if there was a console free, she worked and got paid. If not...

I am prepared to live in the "It is." and manage.

Maybe the House of the Setting Sun will happen after all.

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 04:41 AM

According to Dennis Kucinich, the bottom doesn't have to fall out...

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/29/is_this_the_united_states_congress

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 03:51 AM

Thanks Al....That made even me smile!!
Still.... I suppose most people would rather see a Jehovah's Witness on their doorstep, than a New Labour canvasser....Eh?....:0)

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 03:39 AM

You ought to join the Jehovah's witnesses, Ake.

You'd be brilliant at turning up on peoples doorsteps saying, the world is in awful state at the moment. Have you ever wondered what it can all mean? Where is it all leading?

Don't let your daughter wear tight jeans, or have a blood transfusion and you'll be 'quids in' with Jesus. Can I sell you Watchtower? Its a great magazine and will answer all your questions.

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 03:32 AM

They accused you of 'negativity'.

The bastards! Whatever CAN they have meant?

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Paul Burke
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 03:29 AM

I wonder what the Romano- British were discussing in 400AD? The Roman Empire seemed set to last forever; within 10 years Britain had fallen into the Dark Ages. The Western Roman Empire itself lasted less than a hundred years more, though Byzantium was effective for another 700 or so.

One major problem with a "bailout" is that the assets have been wildly overvalued. Eother the value has to drop, or inflation has to catch up with them, so the main effect of a crude financial get-out-of-jail-free could be hyperinflation. Oh, and forget about that pension.

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 02:57 AM

Well....We've all bought into this shitheap, to a larger or smaller extent.
Those who tried to sound a warning were accused of "negativity"
We still discuss Obama and McCain as if either can solve anything.
Both are completely powerless...simply window dressing.

The bottom HAS fallen out and the sooner we come to terms with that the better.

Sure , a taxpayer bailout may work for a few months...a year? but how long can the taxpayer continue to support a section of the community which robs them blind.
Capitalism needs optimism and belief that the machine is capable of delivering, but people have looked under the hood and they don't like what they see. A clapped out, leaky, polluting engine, pulling the worlds biggest overloaded trailer....and running on EMPTY......Ake

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Bert
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 02:10 AM

Barry, I nearly pissed myself reading your post (psst!!! if you DO start a hijacking business, give me a call, I'm on your side.).

As a WWII baby I am used to rationing and people growing cabbages in window boxes.

As SRS says, we will certainly be planting a veggie garden next year, crash or not.

You're right Amos, a full collapse is hard to envision, but there will certainly be a lot of hardship for everyone to recover from that past eight years.

Another thing to consider is that we have to work together with our neighbors to overcome whatever adversity we face.

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Barry Finn
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 12:45 AM

Yes, we have discussed it & my wife does not agree with me & my siblings. She thinks it's a bad idea to steal a heavily armed Navy vessel & start hijacking oil tankers just outside US waters & ranson them off to their owners. We figured that paper money won't be worth the wheel barrow you carry it in so we'll be looking for the deeded rights to their overseas beachfront properties, preferably located on large South Pacific islands. We'll also be taking all of our canned goods with US.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Amos
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 12:23 AM

We've had the conversation, but we did not get far into it, because a real collapse is hard to envision when you have had orderly supply lines all your life.

A

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Bee
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 12:18 AM

I so very much hope that ordinary lives will not become so difficult, although it is of course important to consider. I was reading several articles today about the state of Canada's economy, and while it is true that we will take a hit with the rest of the world if the American economy completely tanks, it will be only a secondary shock - we are in a lucky position wrt to debt, well-placed to move on pretty smoothly, by all accounts, despite our economic ties with the US. And since Canadians by nature tend to be a a little on the pessimistic side, I think this is likely true.

I have wondered sometimes if Americans can see themselves as outsiders see them. It has been like watching a train fast approaching a curve you're sure it can't make. You can't do anything about it, just hope no one gets hurt too badly.

Good luck, neighbours, and I hope that train gets slowed right down in the very near future.

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 11:48 PM

I'm being more diligent in what I sell on eBay. Trying to keep a supplemental income coming in for as long as it will come.

I've had that thought about my neighborhood, though. Most of my neighbors are retired and on fixed incomes. I think we need to have a talk this fall about what each of us will plant in our veggie gardens next spring, and about how we can assist each other regarding things like driving (share rides) and general assistance (ie., house repairs) when needed.

SRS

Subject: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Janie
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 11:40 PM

My parents, sister and I are starting to talk about what we might need to do and consider if the whole economic ball of wax does melt. Not in an alarmist way, but just a general discussion of our options as a family. My parents both grew up during the Depression, and their experience has largely informed the budding dialogue among us.

We are a small, but close family that gets along quite well. If need be, we could combine resources and households - not seamlessly or without bumps - but with good grace and optimism that among us, we could take care of ourselves and each other. So, while we are all concerned, we are not frightened or excessively worried about our ability to keep a roof over our collective heads and food on the table, in the event worse comes to worst.

We ARE concerned about our collective ability to insure adequate health care for all of us if the bottom falls out, but especially for my elderly parents, who are already finding it a challenge to afford the medical care and medications they need.

We recognize we are fortunate to have the functional, resourceful, close-knit family that we do, and are mindful that our experience is not universal.

I'm curious to know if others are having similar conversations.

Janie