Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions

Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 11:13 AM

Ironic in what way?

You are right about Seeger on DVD. I believe he has done a few instructional DVD's for Homepsun, but there really aren't that many commercially available documents of his style.

Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 10:41 AM

Well no Ron, that's precisely what I was saying. there are no dvds showing the whole range of what Seeger does.

i suppose some of that is down to Pete's discursive style and you tend to get what's on his mind this week - rather than a determined effort to show you his full range of capabilities.

i remember writing to Pete in the 70's saying I'd tried everywhere to get a hold of a copy of Sourwood Mountain, and he wrote me a charming note back, but the music remained unavailable for quite a while - til long after my interest had wained.

He's one of your best folksinger/instrumentalists and it's a pity.

I'm not dismissing Bruce Springsteen's work, just saying that its sort of ironic

Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 09:58 AM

I just want to clarify one thing before it gets taken out of context. I am demeaning the work of the "purists". I think that there is an important reason to listen and enjoy the traditional styles.   That is what attracted me to this style, and that is why I still listen.   

What I resent is the attitude that immediately dismisses anything that differs from the original source.   No one is painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa. The original remains for all to enjoy. The spirit of folk music is that is a music that was meant to be "alive". People were MAKING music that would fit their life. To deny modern musicians and audiences the opportunity to do that runs against the spirit of the music and I find it hypoctrical when I hear such complaints.   That doesn't mean you have to enjoy it, quite the contrary. Everyone has an opinion. However, to simply dismiss something because it isn't what you are used to shows a preconceived notion and does not allow the music to truly live.

Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: Janie
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 09:55 AM

Heard cuts on NPR. I want one!

Janie

Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 09:39 AM

I call it a folk "error" because there was a tremendous amount of jumping on the bandwagon and many saw a quick way to make a buck. While there was a lot of great music, and the time inspired many people, I think it was a time that divided and saw the genre implode on itself. Commercialism has a tendancy to do that - some look to get rich off of the hotest trend, and the opposite side of the spectrum looks down at anything that isn't "pure" - a sense of snobishness and ownership that runs against the spirit of the music. Too many people fell on one side or the other - the purists versus the songwriters. Too many people forgot the joy of sharing music.

"Elmer Fudd" in his post said "Who knew "John Henry" could be a pleasure to listen to once more". Well, that song and many others became cliche and I feel it is because of all the division among the fans and the overcommercialism.   Hearing someone like Trini Lopez sing that song without any feeling or thought to the words created a terrible image of the style. Songwriters would feel a song like that would be beneath them. Purists, if they would sing such a popular song at all, would turn it into a museum piece and argue about the style in which it was performed.   No wonder people did not want to sing it anymore!

What Springsteen has done is EXACTLY what should have happened 30 or 40 years ago. He has captured the spirit, the fun, and made it enjoyable to sing. You can see that the musicians are enjoying themselves and in turn the audience will join in the celebration. Nothing has been lost and everything has been gained.

Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: Pauline L
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 12:43 AM

I preordered the CD from Amazon.com (at a good price), and I'm really eager to get it. I keep checking the status of my order. I listened to the sound clips on Amazon.com and loved them. Just after listening on April 4, 2006, I wrote about it in a previous Mudcat thread, and I was disappointed that no one followed up. Wake up and welcome to the real world, folks.

As I said in the earlier thread, in an interview, Springsteen said So much of my writing, particularly when I write acoustically, comes straight out of the folk tradition. Making this album was creatively liberating because I have a love of all those different roots sounds... they can conjure up a world with just a few notes and a few words. I can hear that in Springsteen's own music. I agree completely with the opinion that folk music is a living tradition and Springstreen should play it Springsteen's way, not Seeger's way. I feel that Springsteen's versions of the songs are in keeping with the "spirit" of the songs (whatever that means).

Ron, what do you mean by the same error of the 1950's & 1960's (the folk scare)?

Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: Elmer Fudd
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 11:39 PM

I'm with Ron: this is a wonderful recording that carries on the torch of the folk tradition. Who knew "John Henry" could be a pleasure to listen to once more, sung with such verve and spirit? Kudos to Springsteen. That's one helluva steel drivin' man!

Elmer

Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 09:35 PM

I do not know of any DVD's of Pete doing these songs, except for the release of several episodes of Rainbow Quest on Shanachie.

There is always choice!

Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 09:33 PM

NPR's All Things Considered had an interview with Springsteen this evening. It's online here, along with additional material, including sound samples of both Pete's and Bruce's versions of a few songs.

Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 09:26 PM

Is there a dvd of Pete seeger doing the songs as an alternative?

so we have the choice.

Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: Once Famous
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 05:30 PM

I agree with you, Ron.

These are really folk songs that the Boss is doing.

I am glad they are not being done so authentic and traditional.

getting these songs out in front of people again even if they do sound over-produced to the purists is much more meaningful than trying to get them out there in a style (such as braying and warbling) that will end up turning off people to thse fine songs.

Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 05:23 PM

"could this be the beginning of another "folk scare?". "

I certainly hope not. If this develops an appreciation for the songs that would be a blessing, but I would hate to see the same error of the 1950's & 1960's occur again.

Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: Maryrrf
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 05:19 PM

I listened to some samples. While I'm glad he's getting the songs out to a wider audience I will not buy the album. It just isn't to my taste. But...could this be the beginning of another "folk scare?".

Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: fat B****rd
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 03:40 PM

I've only heard "Shenandoah" but I'll be checking out more.

Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: GUEST,s.s
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 03:35 PM

I agree with Ron. Great stuff !

Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 03:31 PM

"In a way this is the problem with seegers efforts. Yes people do enjoy him his playing and the songs today but he really has not been as widely popular outside of his moment in time at the top of the charts. I credit this failure to the over politicization of folk music. Red scare was an important factor and limited the growth of the music of liberals and social thinkers.....perhaps with less politics we would have seen it prosper a bit more."

Check out the songs Conrad.   Aside from Mrs. McGrath and We Shall Overcome (which I don't see how you can argue with its popularity) these are not political songs. I think your image of Seeger is focused soley on his politics, and if you ever had the chance to see Seeger perform you would realize that politics was only a portion of his presentation. Seeger lets the music speak.   These are traditional songs that Seeger played a role in making popular, and I think people who are not remotely involved with folk music will recognize songs such as John Henry, Old Dan Tucker, Buffalo Gals and Froggy Went a Courtin. That is a huge part of Seegers story for which he is not given enough credit. He spent years sharing these folk songs in summer camps, schools and concert stages.

Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 03:27 PM

"In not convincing springsteen to join the folk tradition "

I think that what Springsteen did IS in the folk tradition and that is the point of what Seeger has ALWAYS been about.   Seeger has preached the beauty of MAKING music and making it true to the singer. That is EXACTLY what Springsteen does on this album.

"...the feeling that the songs are being sung in your kitchen you will not find it as you could never fit springsteen and his band and sound equipment....."

SURPRISE! That is EXACTLY what Springsteen did. The recordings where made in a farm house on Springsteens property in NJ.   Of course there was a lot of equipment, and the horns had to be out in the hall, but the recording captures the sound of music being CREATED, which again goes back to what Seeger has always preached.

Pete Seeger did NOT perform the songs in the same style as the original. Seeger used instruments and arrangements that were comfortable to him and allowed him to share the spirit of the song. Springsteen is doing the same exact thing.

I think we concentrate too much on the frame and not enough on the painting. It is not the instrumentation that makes something "folk" - it is the spirit in which it was created.

Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: Ernest
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 01:53 PM

I don`t think Bruce Springsteen wanted to copy Pete Seegers style (he would have had to learn the banjo for it...funny thought). For what reason should he: there are lots of folky versions available. I think his idea was doing the songs in his own way to show his (rock)listeners how great they are - and a good song will stay that even in a different arrangement: real good songs are indestructable ;0)

It might bring the songs into view of people who otherwise wouldn`t hear them at all.

Definitely something for my list...

Regards
Ernest

Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 01:42 PM

it presents the songs but not the folk style of seeger
more a tribute to the songs than to ole pete
would have been much better had springsteen made a tribute to the style of seeger as well as just playing the songs in his own style.

If seeger convinced springsteen to do the songs then it is a bit of atribute but if you are looking for folk style- the feeling that the songs are being sung in your kitchen you will not find it as you could never fit springsteen and his band and sound equipment.....

In not convincing springsteen to join the folk tradition as far as performance as a music integrated into the lifeway then this is a tribute to the failure of seeger.

In a way this is the problem with seegers efforts. Yes people do enjoy him his playing and the songs today but he really has not been as widely popular outside of his moment in time at the top of the charts. I credit this failure to the over politicization of folk music. Red scare was an important factor and limited the growth of the music of liberals and social thinkers.....perhaps with less politics we would have seen it prosper a bit more.

But if the cd keeps the songs in view it will have done something productive.

Conrad

Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: GUEST,Mrr
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 09:59 AM

Hmmm - I'll have to get it for myself, than, and just play it for her (*sigh*)...

Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: Brian Hoskin
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 06:29 AM

This is the track listing for the dual disk version (which has two 'bonus tracks'):

1. Old Dan Tucker
2. Jessie James
3. Mrs. McGrath
4. O, Mary, Don't You Weep
5. John Henry
6. Erie Canal
7. Jacobs Ladder
8. My Oklahoma Home
9. Eyes On The Prize
10. Shenandoah
11. Pay Me My Money Down
12. We Shall Overcome
13. Froggie Went A-Courtin'
14. Buffalo Gals (bonus track)
15. How Can I Keep From Singing (bonus track)

Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: GUEST,TJ
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 08:37 PM

I've only heard a couple tracks on the radio, but it sounds great and I'm looking forward to getting a copy. Pete's mission was always to get the songs out there, and Bruce is certainly doing that, to an audience FAR larger than any folkie could ever dream of. Good luck to him.

Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: GUEST,Texas Guest
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 07:02 PM

So, what art the songs on the CD? Thanks.

Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 06:58 PM

I've never met your Mother Mrrzy! :)

Seriously, my guess is that she won't like it, but if Springsteen was aiming to "sell" this to your Mother or to appeal to any pure folkie, the CD would not have been true to his vision. The idea behind his vision is that folk music is not locked in to one time or style. The music was meant to be a tool and the celebration is in the creation of music. He hit the target.

Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: Chris Cole
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 06:48 PM

But why did they have to go into all that twaddle about Shep Wooley after playing the record of the week track on Radio 2 today? Shame on you BBC. Unacceptable behaviour but NEVER challenged if it relates to anything even slightly folkie. And then people asky why folk music is not popular?

Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 06:20 PM

Will my mother, who loves Pete Seeger but not "boom boom music" as she calls it, like this?

Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 01:20 PM

Great stuff..

ifor

Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: Chris in Wheaton
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 12:36 PM

I have heard some of it, and it has a lot of spirit and makes for good listening. But it is hard to understand the words at times. Is the Tom Waites-like voice really necessary?
I think the Guthrie/Leadbelly Vision cd was better, although Bruce was a bit overboard there too with Vigalante Man.
But if helps keep the old songs alive that's great. There was a lot of hokie-folkie in the folk boom years - and this is not in that vein - it is a good tribute to Pete and the power of the songs.

Chris in Wheaton

Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: jeffp
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 11:15 AM

OK, this one is definitely on my want list.

Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: M.Ted
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 11:04 AM

Ron is exactly right about this--it an amazing effort designed to bring folk music back into the mainstream of rock and pop music. The thing is that he performs folk tunes in a way that rock bands can use--if this album goes anywhere, expect to hear bar bands playing folk music, for the first time in a long time--

For guitar teachers, it is going to be great--

Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 10:26 AM

They were featuring it on Radio 2 yesterday - it sounds like a fantastic album - apart from it meant that a banjo was played on mainstream radio!

LTS

Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 10:23 AM

I missed it, but I was told that Springsteen was on Good Morning America. Did anyone see it?

Subject: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 09:08 PM

Having spent part of the weekend listening to this new CD, and having watched the DVD that accompanies the disc, I have to say - this is a superb recording. While the folk elders will surely start to quibble about the arrangements, the use of instruments, and probably the song selection, I think they will be missing the point. Folk music is a living tradition, and Springsteen has breathed new life into this standards and "recontextualized" (a word that Bruce used) the songs for a contempary audience.

While it is important that we remember the original settings and history behind the songs, it is also important that the songs continue to have a life and relate to contemporary themes. This is what happened during the "folk revival" of the 50's and 60's - people interepreted these songs in settings that spoke to the time and style.   Now in 2006, Springsteen is doing the same.

Watching the DVD you will see the sheer joy and the conviction that the musicians give to these songs.    This is not an album of "cover songs" or an attempt to "sell out" the music. It is a celebration of the songs, something that Pete Seeger has taught to generations of audiences. Now, Springsteen is doing the same as a tribute.

The CD goes on sale tomorrow.   I hope some of you will give it a chance. I know Mudcatters can be a tough crowd, but I hope you listen with an open mind and recognize the beauty behind this recording.

This is a historic recording.