The meaning of 'acoustic'

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 08:53 PM

As Humpty Dumpty said to Alice
"A word means just what I want it to mean, no more, no less."

"But", said Alice...

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: greg stephens
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 09:25 AM

Scrump: at the risk of being seriously repetitive, I dont have the slightest desire to go back to things being 100% acoustic. Amplification is fine. I just wish that acoustic could be used to mean unamplified, which is what it used to mean. That would make the world a lot simpler.
I dont wish to change one bit of how people choose to play music. Sitting in my kitchen playing a few tunes, acoustic is fine. Playing on stage at Glastonbury, amplification is fine. I just think that a bit of precision in the words we use to describe things is often a good thing.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Scrump
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 05:17 AM

I remember when Bob Dylan released an "Unplugged" album in the 1990s, I remarked "Blimey, I can remember him before he was plugged!" ;-)

Interesting discussion. I'm afraid as Greg says, it is a losing battle, and probably has been since Dylan, Ashley Hutchings et al started folk rock back in the 60s and 70s. Would we really want to go back to the days when everything was 100% acoustic though? I doubt many would.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: greg stephens
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 05:11 AM

I have noticed that keyboards and electric basses are all deployed within this field of "acoustic" music.
   I am in the middle of discussions at the minute about organising a really acoustic festival next year. I wonder if there would be many takers. It would not be a quiet do with lots of people strumming guitars though. It would have samba drum, New Orleans jazz, and many forms of music which have evolved while being played acoustically, and I think it would be interesting for audiences to hear evrything played in thatway.
   In this thread, by the way, I have been trying to discuss the meaning of the word, and how it is used. I have not been making value judgements, I think electric guitars are great. I just think that sometimes there's a time and place for real acoustic music, because there is a special magic when muscians are hearin each other, and the audience is hearing them, without any intermediate activity.
   And I think the word "acoustic" used to mean that kind of music, and it would be nice if it meant that again, so that a poster saying "Acoustic Music" was unambiguous.. But that is a losing battle, I think.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 08:25 PM

Well, that might be able to be guaranteed - who wants to put the axe thru the power feed?

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: JamesBerriman
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 04:19 PM

Well, here's one to put the cat among the acoustic pigeons (Just down the road for Greg). I'd be intrigued to see a few of these performing 'acoustically'.

The 'Acoustic (un-plugged) Festival of Britain'

I spotted the poster in Morrisons this afternoon.

From the web page:

An eclectic programme of Unplugged and Acoustic music from the genres of Folk, Roots, Celtic, Blues, Pop, Rock, Ska and much more set in rural South Cheshire. A great family day out, with 3 Music Tents, Stalls, Craft Displays, Juggling Schools, Beer Tent, Wine Bar, Enormous Marquees, Exotic Foods, Harry Ramsdens Chip Shop and a Record Fair.

Bristling with icons and music legends from 5 decades over 6,000 music fans each day will be enjoying 34 artists over 2 days on 3 stages including. The Stranglers, Steve Harley, Glenn Tilbrook from Squeeze, Elkie Brooks, The Animals, Paul Jones and The Blues Band, Pauline Black with acoustic supergroup 3MEN+Black, Mike Peters (The Alarm), Dennis Locorriere (the voice of Dr. Hook), Tom Hingley (Inspiral Carpets), Hayseed Dixie, Ezio, Waking the Witch, Ed Tudor Pole (ex Tenpole Tudor & Sex Pistols), Jackie McShee's Pentangle, Chumbawamba (acoustic) Ian McNabb (Icicle Works) The Cheshire Chord Company, and Sandi Thom.

JUST CONFIRMED American Grammy Award winning Bluegrass legend, Del McCoury and his band are making their ONLY UK festival appearance in the Sunday lineup - BOOK NOW !

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 08:47 AM

An accoustic instrument would be one that doesnt require the presense of electrical amplification to allow it to be played.
Amplified and Accoustic are not oposites are they?
I prefer the smaller venues were people have gone to listen to the music and the organisor/steward chucks em out if they wont shut up.
But in our area we have pubs that sell more beer by having nights when there is aa PA available and anyone can come along plug in and or sing.
There are also nights for sing arounds or even the dreaded sessions
there is no PA and the players just stand or sit and play in turn.
I enjoy both but as Said prefer listening and playing unamplified.
Pianos of the electric variety are capable of being played without PA so what is the problem.
If you define an accoustic night as one were no pa is available and you can still play your instrument isn those conditions whats the problem?
Villans club is great and the PA is kept to a minimum and there is no rule to say you have to use it.
Is the performers choice innit?

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: frogprince
Date: 03 Jun 06 - 10:02 PM

And had I had the opportunity to chat with him, I would have been tempted to suggest an experiment in sexual self-satisfaction for him, even though I realize it's physically impossible for at least most people. Anyhow, I agree with you totally about over amplification, and never more so than in this instance.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Jun 06 - 08:09 AM

ROFLMAO...

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Keef
Date: 03 Jun 06 - 07:24 AM

Well FP, you could perhaps have had a quiet chat with the sound engineer.
He would be able to advise you on sex and travel.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: frogprince
Date: 02 Jun 06 - 09:44 PM

OK, Keefe, get this: I went with a number of friends to see the Carpenters live, in Chicago. The amplification was turned up past the threshold of pain. It had to be the worst case of totally inappropriate use of a sound system I've encountered yet. That beautiful voice, for sure, but the idiots made it impossible to enjoy it.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Keef
Date: 02 Jun 06 - 06:48 PM

I blame Eric Clapton!
Pretty sure that he was the first to use "unplugged" for an album.
He did at least use an acoustic guitar.
Since then "unplugged" nights have been plugged a lot!!
Oh well
Plug the lot of em!
I just watched a rerun of the Karen Carpenter story.
She only ever sang in a whisper and with the microphone almost touching her lips. But what a beautiful voice though.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: JamesBerriman
Date: 02 Jun 06 - 06:24 PM

I'm reminded of a truly surreal experience at the Keele Folk Club some years ago. For the Christmas Party, posters were put up advertising 'Acoustic Jam'. A large contingent of the regular folk club crowd turned out with their acoustic instruments, ready to party the night away.

Imagine the scene, then, as an electric band took to the stage and started hammering out 70s and 80s rock music to the accompaniment of a drum machine. The lead singer looked like a refugee from Spinal Tap. Their name, much like their performance, was evidently a joke.

The whole event swiftly degenerated into a row between two factions - the serious folkies who were all for kicking the band out and having a singaround versus the other half of the room who had evidently mistaken the Pig and Rat (or Barnes Bar as it was once known) for the Students Union disco. A riot was only narrowly averted.

Ah, how those memories come flooding back. Excuse me while I wipe the tears from my eyes...

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 02 Jun 06 - 05:35 PM

One of the unsung bastions of real acoustic music (in the US, at least) is the house concert. Some of these have provided the finest listining I've encountered in decades.

And, of course, you get to see the musicicians, without peering round a cluster of shiny microphones.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 02 Jun 06 - 01:41 PM

Acoustick is what you bash heifers with.

Cheers all

Jim

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 07:21 PM

I always thought acoustic was the thing you shot billiards with or could also be used by say, oh, Midchuck for instance, to bash over Clinton's head.

Spaw

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Pistachio
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 06:55 PM

My husband - who does not care for 'my type of singing' reckons that accoustic is 'au naturel' the sound of the voice(s) and the sound of the instrument(s).
If I have ever been 'encouraged' to use a microphone I have been lucky to have just enough 'power' applied to lift my voice to the back of the venue. I detest the over-loud amplification that is cranked up.Venues do not need the power. the listeners might just have to pay attention!
Goodnight.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Keef
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 06:34 PM

I was in Ireland a few years ago, midsummer and pubs all very crowded.
Some places had a mike hanging above the table where the session players gathered. That was only a very low powered amp and did a good job.
I still think that you cannot improve on the natural acoustics of a good room. The subtle harmonies that can seem to float around the room just don't happen when amplification is used.
My gripe is against UNNECCESSARY amplification. I know of several "folk clubs" which do have an attentive audience, held in quite a small room that does have good acoustics but short of an act of god like a power failure the organisers will insist on stuffing around with microphones and also put on background music in between just in case you might be tempted to have a quiet chat with your friends during the break.
This is a bit off subject but I have been in accapella choirs for a long time, when we perform acoustically in halls, it is always good. When we do an outdoor performance and are all strung out in a line with a shared mike for each section of the group..it is almost always a disaster. Only the singer closest to the mike is heard, we can't hear the blend in the foldback and the sound engineer keeps turning up the gain until it is at the point of howling feedback.
Anyone got any tips to improve that situation? I think we usually have the wrong type of microphone (designed for up close use) whereas what we probably need is a central mike that can pick up the overall sound.
Problem with that is that type of mike is more prone to feedback if amp turned up too high.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 12:55 PM

noisy, ignorant bearded wazzocks....lets be fair, not all the women going to folk clubs are like that.

you will be alarming all our friends across the water whom I have just got interested in starting folk clubs. Cool it man....you might got a gig there.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: redsnapper
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 11:05 AM

Don't agree Keef.

I run a regular "acoustic blues" jam with modest use of a PA (OK... maybe we crank it up a bit at the end!). It hasn't prevented audience participation at all and audience ambient noise at such events tend to be a little more than when a knowledgeable and reverential folk audience is listening to, say, Martin Carthy or a classical audience as in Wilfried's Segovia example.

At the trad session I run in the same venue, it is always unamplified and those who come to listen to that are generally aware of, and sympathetic, to that.

The problem comes, and I have run a folk club in the UK in the past for five years, in the type of situation WLD describes. There is, unfortunately, a habit/tradition at some FCs (but by no means all) of noisy heckling as I mentioned above. In those situations, light use of a PA can be useful if the venue demands it. I certainly do not want to lose my voice or trash an expensive instrument because of some ignorant noisy bearded wazzocks in the audience.

RS

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 May 06 - 09:23 PM

Yeh its okay if you've got a nice respectful audience, but even folk clubs are pretty partisan - they are pretty grudging as to whom they will grant respect.

A couple of years ago I saw a room ful of people cheated out of an evening of listening to Wizz Jones because a few noisy herberts outside decided it wasn't really folk music - not being about vital up to the minute subjects like pretty mill girls being deserted by their soldier laddies, and chasing the fox. Some people had travelled long distances to see Wizz.

I remember my favourite guitarist of all time - the late Gerry Lockran going through an eveing of solid shit like that one night in Sutton Coldfield. And I swear to this day that very few people who claim to worship the ground Martin carthy stands on actually understand what a brilliant musician he is, cos like someone says you can't hear picking all that well unamplified. Its a quiet instrument.

So I say use anything that enhances your hearing of the acoustic sound. For two reasons - first there is a long tradition of complete noisy inattentive arseholes getting in to see the best guitarists. This goes right back to the days of Django Rheinhardt - who was never really an electric guitarist - he was forced to go electric by noisy audiences.

Secondly there are creative possibilties in processing the acoustic sound. Last weekend I saw a guitarist accompanying Vikki Clayton at Belvoir Castle - Chris Conway. he is wonderful. I wonder if he gives lessons.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: 282RA
Date: 31 May 06 - 08:56 PM

I think "acoustic" comes from the Greek word "akouo" or "akouei" which means "listen."

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: frogprince
Date: 31 May 06 - 08:33 PM

Perhaps if I saw the actual situation Keef is talking about, I would get his point. In my own experience, I couldn't begin to count the times when I've been in settings, ranging from just big enough that a mike and modest PA was called for to large open ampitheaters where major systems were essential, in which the audience has joined in loud and strong at every opportunity.
To the degree that amplification is cranked up beyond what is needed to hear the perfomer properly, to that degree it will wall off the audience as non-participants. (Unless you count incoherent screams as audience participation).

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 31 May 06 - 08:06 PM

Keef,

"Acoustic" musical performance has inherent limits on the number who can hear and participate - when you want to turn it into a music making industry selling thousands of tickets, then you kill it.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Keef
Date: 31 May 06 - 07:59 PM

Problem that I have with PA is that it kills the chorus. I love to sing anything with a rabble rousing chorus and I can almost always get the whole crowd to belt out "midnight special" or "16 Ton" (folk???)
Do the same thing with a PA and the participation drops way down.
I went to the beer tent at a recent festival and the performer (amplified) was moaning cos nobody was joining the chorus...well I couldn't even hear if I was singing in tune unless I put my hand on the side of my head (very folkie that!) so I gave up too.
I think that amplification creates a performer/audience divide and the audience goes back to passive/apathetic mode.
I've been to many a festival where the power went off temporarily and the audience and performer were having a great time for several numbers, then the power came back on and it was back to normal and not half as enjoyable.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: GUEST,DB
Date: 31 May 06 - 03:08 PM

I blame Music Industry marketing tossers for any confusion. To these simple-minded money-grubbers anything 'acoustic' must be 'Folk'.

'Folk Rock' and 'Celtic Military Bands' are also 'Folk', of course -

incapable of thinking it through, aren't you, you tossers?!!

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: GUEST
Date: 31 May 06 - 02:07 PM

My band plays acoustic, even if we're asked to amplify. Begged...in some cases.

Don't have a problem with other folks doing it, we just don't.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Ernest
Date: 31 May 06 - 01:35 PM

Thank you Wilfried,
I did know about the German-Irish Society loossing their home (I am on their mailing list since an - amplified - concert of the Sands Family a few years ago thet they hosted), but never know about the Trompetchen. I will check it out when I get the chance!
Best
Ernest

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 31 May 06 - 11:26 AM

Ernest- I'm from Friedberg, about 30 km north of Frankfurt a.M.
We have a pub called Trompetchen; every second friday of the month there is a jazz session. The pub is in a small cellar, amplification would deafen the audience.
The Friedberg Society for German-Irish Understanding has sometimes folkies playing Irish music (solo to trio ore more). They had to leave their home and are meeting now in a pub called Galerie until they find a new club home.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Ernest
Date: 31 May 06 - 11:00 AM

Wilfried: are there any pubs that fit your description in your parts? I would love to find one...
Here in Berlin there are 2, the Celtic Cottage (due to troublesome neighbors) and the Union Jack (very small)
Best wishes
Ernest

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: JennyO
Date: 31 May 06 - 10:40 AM

Most of our folk clubs in Sydney are similar to the UK clubs, and are mostly unamplified. The one that is different from the others, and is amplified, is called....


































ALMOST ACOUSTIC!

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: melodeonboy
Date: 31 May 06 - 10:32 AM

It's not really a matter of whether amplification is good or bad; it's "horses for courses". If you need it, use it; if you don't, don't.

It really comes down to using the language accurately so that we say what we mean. I too have been baffled by seeing the word "unplugged" on recordings that are technically no different from, say, Black Sabbath, apart from the fact that the guitar being used is a different shape and could, were it used in a different environment, be used to produce acoustic sound.

I think this issue arises from the lack of an accurate term to describe a genre of music (difficult to define precisely, so I shan't attempt it!) which seems to revolve around people (often singer-songwriters) who play "dual-purpose" guitars, i.e. those that can be played either acoustically or through an amp or PA system, and who usually play them amplified in a "performance" setting.

Whenever my instruments are amplified in any way, I do not regard myself as playing acoustically.

Ultimately, I think Greg Stephens is right: something's either acoustic or it's not.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Rockhen
Date: 31 May 06 - 09:06 AM

no comment!

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 31 May 06 - 07:37 AM

...better yet, you can use my or..... oops!!

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Rockhen
Date: 31 May 06 - 06:20 AM

Say that to me when I am armed with my accordion...!!! :-) Or better still...my piano!!!!! Lol...

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 31 May 06 - 05:41 AM

Librarians? The worst songs tend to be written by Primary School teachers!!!

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: s&r
Date: 31 May 06 - 04:41 AM

Ask for an acoustic guitar in a music shop and you'll be shown a steel strung acoustic - never nylon. Why?

Stu

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Sooz
Date: 31 May 06 - 03:58 AM

A new club has started in this neck of the woods which calls itself an "acoustic music club". They used to word so as not to frighten people off by using the word "folk"!. (They don't use a PA)

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Micca
Date: 31 May 06 - 03:36 AM

3 to write a song about how good the old one was


and 4 to complain it was electric




Sorry about the sudden post I pressed the wrong button, electric, you see, I have little to contribute to the debate, but I always feel, and have felt that the amplification can (not always) get between the performer and the listener, (with amplification it tends to be Performer and Audience) and the "intimacy" oft he relationship between a singer (in particular)and the listener is reduced. with respect to Rockhens comments above this also applies to instruments like the Piano, I have been privelaged to hear Classical Chamber music both piano, Harpsichord and string Music in the intimate settings it was written for and Wonderful stuff it was too. Again it is this "intimacy" that is sometimes lost when a larger venue (or amplification) is needed. It is this "No barriers" between the performer and the listener, be it orchestra pit or Amplifier that I prefer.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 31 May 06 - 03:33 AM

and another six thousand to say how much better the old bulb was.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: treewind
Date: 31 May 06 - 03:30 AM

...and the other 7 to complain because it's electric

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Micca
Date: 31 May 06 - 03:23 AM

Q How many Folkies does it take to change a light bulb?


A 8, one to change the light bulb

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 31 May 06 - 03:00 AM

I spy a big error here - amplifiers are NOT needed in concert halls if you have the right instrument. I had the honour to listen to the great Segovia in a concert hall with more than 1000 people, and he played unplugged.
In pubs you also don't need amplifiers; you can play louder, and people will listen to good music, especially when and if they came for this occasion.
I'm a strong advocate for unplugged music - as I often tell the colleagues from the electric branch: When the fuse blows, you have to stop in the dark. We shall continue playing by heart.

IanC has said all that is necessary about acoustic = concerned with hearing. As the opposite of amplified I prefer natural.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Rasener
Date: 31 May 06 - 02:09 AM

Rockhen, no need to thank me. If you play with piano, thats what you do and I have to say that it is always welcome at the club.
Variety is the spice of life. :-)

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 May 06 - 08:59 PM

Come to think of it, "Pipe Organs" are just purely 'acoustic instruments' only too - even though when electricity became readily available, they pensioned off the excess farm labourers who used to have to manually work the bellows...

However, there's not too much danger of one turning up to a 'Folk Music' evening, I suppose, so it's a bit of a moot point!

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 May 06 - 08:53 PM

Well, Rockhen, I was just about to complain that my old portable reed organ (about 50 years +) which is a single keyboard with a Stradella Bass, that needs a 240V power point to run the electric fan to blow the reeds really is just an 'acoustic instrument'...

It's just a piano accordion without the bellows really... :-)

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Rockhen
Date: 30 May 06 - 08:31 PM

Hello tequila Sunrise.....!
This is sort-of related to the thread...a tiny bit, at least!... although I am going on about something I have ranted about before...sorry if I bore some of you... as well as my non-electric v traditional accordion...I play the piano....eeeek...shock horror...There aren't many places with a decent piano in them. I have a stage piano which I can use as a keyboard and play nasty loud rock keyboardy stuff. I can also use it through its own speakers to play as though it is a traditional piano...no fancy effects just a very simple plain piano sound. At a volume equal or less than a normal piano. I would love to play piano ballads and similar, sometimes, at local acoustic nights...I don't sing loudly and would only be able to play quite quietly, so as not to drown out my very small voice...unfortunately, unlike a traditional piano ....my piano uses ELECTRICITY to make it work....oh, dear...well you can't play that nasty horrible modern thing at our acoustic night cos it just isn't traditional and proper like our lovely guitars...(that we also plug in and use as electric acoustic at open mics...)
It just isn't fair! :-(
PS Thank you to Villan for being open-minded, in my view and allowing me to play my lovely piano...in a way I hope is tuneful, not plonky and sometimes...dare i say it, almost beautiful...at his club

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: greg stephens
Date: 30 May 06 - 07:07 PM

Did I say a word against John Connolly or Fiddlers Green? Or librarians? Of course I didnt. I said that a song written by a librarian is not the same thing is a folk song. according to the old definition of folk song. Just as an acoustic song (old definition) is not the same as an amplified song. In point of fact I love Fiddlers Green, love John Connolly's work, and some of my best friends are librarians.
All I'm saying is "acoustic" and "amplified" are opposites, in my book.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: GUEST,Rev
Date: 30 May 06 - 06:52 PM

There's a band here in the states, based in Austin, TX., called the Asylum Street Spankers who play a freakish combination of old time, ragtime, western swing, classic city blues, and even hip hop (reformulated as "hick-hop"), all without the dubious benefit of what they call "demon electricity." Their shows are usually great, and they make a point of getting their audiences, often very young, to shut up and listen and participate. Recently though, due to their growing popularity, they've been playing larger venues, and they've started using amplification. Now they're trying to have it both ways, they use amplification, but keep the volume low so as to try to encourage the same kind of quiet listening. The problem is, every time they ask the audience to be quiet, some bozo in the audience shouts "turn up the PA," or something similar. My point is, I think that there is an interest and market for unamplified music, even amongst young people, but choosing to perform that way requires certain compromises, like only playing fairly small venues.

One other quick point regarding the statement:
"An acoustic recording, likewise, meant sticking a mic in front of the singer, or instrument, and recording the noise they were making"
Actually the term "acoustic recording" is used to describe recordings made in the late 19th and early 20th centuries that did not use microphones at all. They used the big cones, like on an old victrola, with a diaphragm that vibrated, and transferred the sound onto a wax disc or cylinder. So acoustic recordings, like acoustic instruments, do not use electricity.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 May 06 - 05:57 PM

A PA system can actually backfire, because it can encourage people to talk away during the music, Or even bellow, if the sound is turned up. Then, when there's has a quiet bit, and there's nothing coming through the mike, the bellow roars out very noticeably. Quite comic somertimes, but irritating.

There's the old saying that the best way to quieten a noisy crowd down can be to sing something quiet that people want to hear.

Why the crack against librarians though? Ordinary people doing a valuable job, what's wrong with that?