BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Jan 11 - 03:25 PM

I saw a post in FaceBook on this, and tried to insert some reason and logic... and all I got was more "We already have plenty of gun laws...all we need is more 'enforcement' and treatment of the mentally ill."

As long as people cannot see the problem with that line..(which always sounds more like a rote slogan mouthed by those who WANT guns and don't want to confront the actual situation)...they will continue to hold to the belief that "if *I* behave properly, the fact that many thousands of other behave badly is irrelevant."

Many items and actions in this country are regulated...alcohol, drugs, motor vehicles and how they are operated, processed food, children's toys, building construction, electrical codes, prize fights, design of power tools, pesticides,....the list is endless.... all done because we cannot trust everyone to take proper care if things were NOT regulated. And those things are NEEDED.
Yet, it is easy to obtain guns (and often a SUPER gun with special ammo)....which are NOT needed by the average person....

It is a sad situation when factual distortion by the NRA has more influence than sane arguments by knowledgeable people, pleadings by law enforcement and victims of crimes and statistics which SHOW the problem. Most of the rest of the WORLD looks at us in disbelief as we accumulate more & more weapons per capita, and continue to suffer these tragedies.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Jan 11 - 03:17 PM

The post by Donuel is devalued by false figures.
(99000 lone gunmen have not killed 2-30 children each since 2001).

2001-2004, 32000 people total killed by handguns and 8000 by other types of guns (rough figures from graph of homicides, Wikipedia).
Roughly 20,000 killed by other means.

In 2002, 3012 children including teens were killed by guns (National Center for Health), figures from National Educational Association.
90,000 were killed between 1979 and 2001, or roughly 4500 a year.
(The number of teens killed in the drug trade is not indicated).

I am for responsible gun sale, licensing and testing, including mental evaluation-
but nonsensical statistics can make a point look ridiculous; they do not support the argument.

Sensible narcotics laws also are needed to lessen the killing.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: kendall
Date: 15 Jan 11 - 02:01 PM

Because we always wait until some crazy bastard kills before we put him away.
How many are killed by drunk drivers?And how many of those drunks have a rap sheet of dozens of convictions? Are they not just as dead as the gun shot victims?
If a person is killed while crossing the street it never makes the papers outside the town where it happened, but if a plane crashes killing 100 people it is on the national news. Are they deader than the man?

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 11 - 01:10 PM

The last word

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 15 Jan 11 - 01:00 PM

I think that Congressional differences should be settled by giving both groups automatic weapons and requiring them to shoot it out from fifty paces sheltered only by the flimsiest of wooden tables. Either that or axes.

Sorry for the drift from the drift from the drift from the . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jan 11 - 11:15 PM

My dad was a Constitutional law professor. Some of that passion rubbed off. Adams, Jefferson, Madison...Barak Obama all COnstituional lawyers. Mom was an artist ergo I have always done political pictures to please them in some small way.

When it comes to toning it down I have one thought tonight.

STAY Gruntled
When guys are Disgruntled, shit hits the fan.




When it comes to Cat Stevens I play them all by ear. I have to lay down the bass line on an old Korg and play to that. If I made some sort of foot pedals for the bass line it would be better but the Korg can add a touch of percussion as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: number 6
Date: 14 Jan 11 - 11:01 PM

That is great news regarding the E-string .... never heard of anything like that before .... salutes to that store clerk.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Jan 11 - 10:12 PM

Donuel: "Music comes and goes but today I did buy an E string for my 5 string electric cello that I will use to play Cat Stevens tunes. Actually the clerk bought the string for me since all I had was plastic."

That, my dear brother, was the best news, I've heard(or read) on here, in a long time!

Which Cat Stevens song?..'Lisa, Lisa'? I know there's a cello in that one, I used to do it..but, that was a while ago. I don't do vocals, anymore..but I write them for other voices.

Hey, (just thought of this, to add)...when you play again, get free of the agitation of all this political double-speak. What you can do, is well above those con artists, that we have lent our ears to.
Send them your heart....

...and warmest regards,

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jan 11 - 01:26 PM

It pays to teach them young

http://usera.imagecave.com/donuel/Palin-Primer.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jan 11 - 02:07 AM

That was a very nice rhetorical question.
but I'll answer it any way...
My best friend was murdered with a shot gun. I knew a classical violinist who commited suicide with a gun.
I was only shot at once in the railyards at night. I think he was shooting high anyway.

CAUTION: Writing in all gun metaphors is strangely addictive.

Music comes and goes but today I did buy an E string for my 5 string electric cello that I will use to play Cat Stevens tunes. Actually the clerk bought the string for me since all I had was plastic.






PS Its fine to say "SHUT UP!" but nobody but nobody tells me to fold no damn laundry...them is fightin wurds

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 09:39 PM

What??..Are you grasping at straws for something you left unturned to bitch about???
Donuel, i thought you were a more serious musician, to be involved with whining about THEIR choice of weapons....Why do that, when you have an orchestra in front of you??..Shit, you can blow them away, with just some slick arrangements and some well practiced chops!!

Calm down!..This country has a bazillion guns, and no one has been coming after you, have they???

PLAY!!..We can win this!!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 08:50 PM

6 Why don't you go learn how to write, or draw or sing a tune properly.
Until then you aren't worth the 23 cents to send you a message.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 08:45 PM

We get your point Donuel ... now go find something constructive to do ... maybe go and do the dishes, pay a bill or fold the laundry or something ... please.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 08:39 PM

Recount - when election results are too close to call between candidates of the same party.

Re Election - when an incumbant wins.

Reload - When a Liberal beats a Tea Party candidate.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 08:35 PM

This Thurs to Sunday at the TImmonium fair grounds there is a gun fair primarily for machine guns. You can buy trade or sell your guns at the fair without background checks.

The commercial for this event runs twice an hour on the Ruxh LImbaugh show. The ad has a cutely reparte' between a private and ol Sarge. Come to the fair, its a dream come true!

Subject: ED thank you for the machine gun
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 08:26 PM

Ed thanks for the machine gun.

I made a picture as to how I put it to good use...

I call it the BeckMobile

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 08:21 PM

It just occured to me that the last time men carried pistols on the floor of COngress was specificly Sumner, immediately before the Civil War.

My how history repeats.

for this to happen again they would have to lift the ban on guns on federal institutions, which would probably be vetoed.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 08:14 PM

By the way if anyone thinks that Palin's definition of "the right to bear arms" is the 'right to vote' is a bit odd or even warped, you need to put it in perspective.
Sarah has recently sought to arm bears in regards to mama grizzlies.
With the right kind and enough drugs along with a great deal of time for relection, her definition of the right to bear arms is merely voting, will begin to make a bit more sense. At least until the shrill light of a hangover morning burns your eyes.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 07:48 PM

Over 9 in 10 people are now saying that the name of the KILL OBAMAcare bill should be changed. Folks even want the assault rifle ban brought back.
The righties are complaining that the insane rabid dog liberals are foaming at the mouth to take away their guns.

No matter how much liberals tone it down, the right wing base will still feel like they are the victims in the crosshairs and that lefty loonies are trying to gun down their most treasured possesion and sacred cONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT (which at the time was a blunderbus or flintlock rifle).

Before librals jump the gun and shoot themselves in the foot they should stare down the barrel of reality. American phraseology is loadied with gun metaphors. Today Mary Malkin smirkingly wrote that Obama made a double barrel effort at the memorial last night.
The right will tease liberals to death by squeezing the trigger on every gun related saying from here to eternity.

Even straight shooters like Peter Jennings are afraid that a war on gun sayings will backfire. On the other hand if liberals run from right wing political snipers they will just die tired. IT will be hard to put the smoke back in the gun at this point so the smart thing to do would be to step back and aim at a different target.

Instead of going off half cocked, liberals should enforce the laws on the books such as being shot and killed by a gun. As the police say, you have to wait until its too late if you want protection from a gun toting whacko.

The big guns in Congress will probably start carrying pistols. I bet they won't even bother to conceal them. It will become what the flag pin became under Bush jr. It will be the measure and display of being a REAL AMERICAN. They will say a gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone. Of course once the draw their waepons on the floor of Congress they could ewaily be taken out by the Seargent at Arms.

So before liberals shoot from the hip and let this issue blow up in their face they should think of a campaign they can win. Sarah Palin has defined bearing arms as the right to vote. It looks like liberals are gonna hafta bear more arms at the ballot box.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 05:32 PM

GUEST,number 6: "I have a shillelagh ... and I've never hit anyone with it."

I played a piece in concert, recently, that kicked the shit out of them...and ALL at once, too!!..and I never had to 're-load'!

Here's to ya' biLL!!!....Cheers!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 05:24 PM

I have a shillelagh ... and I've never hit anyone with it.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 05:18 PM

Sorry. That was me.

To note: according to Wiki, there are three times as many guns in the US as Canada--on a per capita basis. At one time I had a 30-06, .308, .22 Vostok, .22 single-shot Cooey (sp), .303 British, .303 American, and a 30-30 Winchester lever action. I have NO idea where they are now. I never did shoot anyone. Got some food from them, though. And that`s what they were meant for s`far`s I`m concerned.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 05:12 PM

`. . . the 'far left' is so inclined to do...as they live on handouts, and overpaid government jobs!`

I`m glad you got THAT weight off your chest.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 11:54 AM

Kendall is absolutely correcto mundo! Not all the world sees us through the rose-colored glasses, that the 'far left' is so inclined to do...as they live on handouts, and overpaid government jobs!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Wesley S
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 11:39 AM

Fron MSN :

Glock Pistol Sales Surge in Aftermath of Arizona Shootings
January 12, 2011 12:01 AM ET
By Michael Riley

Greg Wolff, the owner of two Arizona gun shops, told his manager to get ready for a stampede of new customers after a Glock-wielding gunman killed six people at a Tucson shopping center on Jan. 8.

Wolff was right. Instead of hurting sales, the massacre had the $499 semi-automatic pistols -- popular with police, sport shooters and gangsters -- flying out the doors of his Glockmeister stores in Mesa and Phoenix.

"We're at double our volume over what we usually do," Wolff said two days after the shooting spree that also left 14 wounded, including Democratic Representative Gabrielle Giffords, who remains in critical condition.

A national debate over weaknesses in state and federal gun laws stirred by the shooting has stoked fears among gun buyers that stiffer restrictions may be coming from Congress, gun dealers say. The result is that a deadly demonstration of the weapon's effectiveness has also fired up sales of handguns in Arizona and other states, according to federal law enforcement data.

"When something like this happens people get worried that the government is going to ban stuff," Wolff said.

Arizona gun dealers say that among the biggest sellers in the past few days is the Glock 19 made by privately held Glock GmbH, based in Deutsch-Wagram, Austria, the model used in the shootings.

Sales Jump

One-day sales of handguns in Arizona jumped 60 percent to 263 on Jan. 10 compared with 164 the corresponding Monday a year ago, the second-biggest increase of any state in the country, according to Federal Bureau of Investigation data.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 11:13 AM

Jack, we have created so many enemies in our history that to expect us to go unarmed and vulnerable is just not realistic. No country would ever dare to invade the USA because there are far more guns in the civilian population that in the military.
Furthermore, owning a gun is not being a fetishist.I resent that broad label.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 10:58 AM

If the answer is to enforce laws already on the books, why have Republicans in the Senate spent the last 5 years ensuring that there is no Director of ATF?

http://pr.thinkprogress.org/

The NRA has effectively replaced the ATF as the agency that determines US gun policy.

Can't wait until the fast food industry replaces FDA.

Maybe the tobacco industry should take over HHS.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 08:59 AM

Everybody has to eat. Nobody needs to kill.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 12:17 AM

More American children die from guns than from cancer

Where is their telethon?

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 11:47 PM

All you gotta' do is want to eat or kill, and you'll find a way.
Common sense does not lay in the will of inanimate objects....with all due respects.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 11:39 PM

yes, but without the guns it is harder to kill people, and without the fork, it is harder to get fat.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 11:15 PM

Blaming guns for killing people is like blaming Rosie O'Donnell's fork, for her being so fat!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Ed T
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 09:23 PM

Maybe only criminals (current and future) and gang members should have to register their guns? And, only make it voluntary, since there is a danger that it may inconvenience these folksa or crimp their gansta style?

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 08:48 PM

How DO we regulate 'sensibly' when crazy people want NO regulation?

You give up on the idea of regulation by law as a solution, that's what you do.

Any attempt at legislating guns away in the US would lead to near civil war and thousands dead at the hands of the gun fetishists.

What the US needs is a shift in cultural values. To a point where the general perception of people who invest in the means to kill others is that they're fucked in the head and are to be shunned at all costs. Which is the way most of the world sees people who want to have guns.

Only once the nation has got to that point does it make sense to legislate to control the marginalized minority that still needs steel and cordite dildos to satisfy their pornographic death fantasies.

So how does the US get there? Popular disgust. The reaction to the recent terrorist killing is a good start.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: olddude
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 08:04 PM

Kendall
Priceless ...

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: kendall
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 08:03 PM

I find it interesting that anyone can buy a 30 round clip, but if you own a repeating shot gun you must have a plug in it to restrict it to 3 shots if you go hunting for Migratory birds.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: kendall
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 08:00 PM

Hand guns are designed to kill people. True but the owner is not OBLIGATED to kill anyone.
Automobiles are not designed to kill people but a lot more are killed by cars than with guns.

To you UK folks who say you don't understand; this is a wild country, always has been. It's part of our history, but it is not nearly as bad as you seem to think. I'm 76, I have traveled all over America and I've never been threatened. I have never had the Flu either, but I get a shot each year.

A Police officer stopped a guy for some infraction, and he noticed a pistol on the passengers seat. He asked the driver if he was armed and the man said he had a concealed .45, a double barrel shotgun under the seat and a .38 in the glove box. He also had a license to carry concealed.
The Cop asked, "What are you afraid of?" man said, "Not a god damn thing."

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 07:30 PM

""I have an absolute loathing of any device designed specifically for killing human beings...

Like the Armed Forces, for instance?""

Strangely no Greg F, for the reason I gave below.

1. The armed Forces aren't devices, they are men.

2. Circumstances DO alter cases, and a standing army is, and always has been, a necessity for any country wishing to keep its borders secure.

So NO! I don't loathe the armed forces. I do however loathe the cynical bastards who send them to war on the pretext of defence, when the real reason is a desire for more than their share of the World's resources.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 05:23 PM

not anonymous, Fossil... many of us know exactly who 'hg' is....Joe Offer is able to tell in various ways.

'hg' has chosen to not 'sign in' for various reasons.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: olddude
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 05:04 PM

naw fossil, we live to argue with each other, it is fun. None of us have a life LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Fossil
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 04:33 PM

Oh boy. One lead post from a Guest - obviously a troll - posting nothing but the URL of some extremist article, no explanation, no comment, no nothing and off go the Mudcatters!

100-plus posts - lots of them quite vitriolic - in a couple of days. Haven't you all got better threads to read than this obvious stirrer?

And, Joeclones, what happened to the quotes ban close quotes on anonymous Guests opening threads? The fct tht ths thrd ttl is pretty much illegible doesn't help either. More moderation needed in my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 04:31 PM

So on BBC news tonight we have it straight from the Mare's mouth!

Gun totin' Sarah Palin says the Media are to blame for the hatred that gets Democrat congressmen shot in supermarket car parks.

Crap, Sarah. You encouraged this kind of action, and your supporters intimidate others by takin' Old Betsy" to election meetings and polling booths!! It was only a matter of time!!

Memo to the Media:- Stop reporting what Sarah says, or the blood of her political opponents will be on your hands.


Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: olddude
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 02:45 PM

Diana is awesome Bill, geeze guy ... In PA we are born with a firearm. Got one of the lowest crime rates in the entire US ... She is a cutie also ... but having old Newt with her, she loses my vote .. that is if I still lived in PA ...

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: olddude
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 01:40 PM

I think even us gun toting sane people agree with you on that one

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 01:29 PM

Look...here is my dilemma..

There are too many crazy people who get can ahold of guns.. we ought to regulate it somehow--
   BUT there are already too many crazy, paranoid people who already HAVE guns, who will see **any** attempt at regulation as proof that their 'rights' are being attacked, so they will USE those guns on 'someone' they feel is to blame...

How DO we regulate 'sensibly' when crazy people want NO regulation?

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 01:14 PM

yeah....and if you can afford a bit more

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: olddude
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 01:12 PM

Although I have to admit my arsenal is pretty darn good. But that is because relatives keep dying and leaving them to me. I am proud to say mine are all deer rifles and shotguns for hunting. Except of course my personal handguns. I hunt with a handgun or did since I don't hunt anymore. So yes handguns can be used for hunting ... but that takes a lot of skill to do so ... most people wouldn't do that

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: olddude
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 01:09 PM

I do hope they converted those AR's to full auto for the kids. You can't have fun shooting up the neighborhood if ya gotta keep pulling the trigger. It costs 8 bucks in parts to do so by the way.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 01:07 PM

(These kids have 'better' toys, hmmm.?)

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 01:06 PM

This woman is a county commissioner in Washington County, PA...

http://www.irey.com/issues.php

She says.."Freedom isn't free. Our country has a long and dignified history of personal responsibility and accountability. For generations, our ancestors have lived in a country where they were free, and able, and expected to defend themselves, their families, and their homes. I believe that it is important that we maintain these rights for ourselves, and for generations to come."

This is the image she uses to illustrate her point