God Bless America at Jays Game

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: gnu
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 06:05 PM

"anthem clause" ? That's the start of an explanation. Please expand.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: JenEllen
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 05:59 PM

Gnu, what I meant was that I'd heard about the anthem clause WELL before the start of the game, and I live clear on the other side of the continent. As Susan said, some folks may have decided to go to the game and rather than make a political stand. All I am saying is that if you CHOOSE to go, spend your money KNOWING that you are going to be offended, then you deserve what you get. Why complain about it later? Buying a ticket and going to a game knowing you will be upset would, to me, be like paying someone to kick you in the nuts.

Steve, she might not be right all the time, but she's well thought out. That counts for a lot.

Susan, I'm not sure what I'd do in that scenario myself. Guess it depends on the nephew. 9 is old enough to make his own decision about what's important to him. A wonderful auntie would be one who would explain the situation, and possible courses of action ("We'll go and be respectful" "We'll just ignore it" "We'll scalp our tickets and go to the batting cages instead"), and trust the child to act on what he thinks is best. That would be the last thing to ruin his day.

~JE

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: Kim C
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 05:52 PM

Well, Jack, as a matter of fact I do, thank you very much. I was just making a point that there are a lot more important things to worry about than what song gets played at what baseball game. Sorry.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: GUEST,Jim Flannerty
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 05:23 PM

For heaven's sake, have some of you gone nuts? The players on all teams DO support America's war effort, probably 99 to 1. The owners and officials DOUBLY support it! Why would they not? They are wealthy conservative men who hang out with others of their ilk. There are no borders in THEIR society.

The crowd was polite and respectful. Why wouldn't it be? For the most part their demographic would be quite supportive of the war. These folks LOVE Don Cherry, probably are suspicious of Jean Chretien's motives, and are OVERWHELMINGLY white, with money (you know how expensive those tickets are) . I'm not being critical, just saying that the demographics would say that they support the war, probably in the 75% range.

Disagree with me if you'd like, but that's my take. I don't think Major League Baseball worried about the reaction at all.

Jim

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: gnu
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 05:06 PM

JenEllen... "...and the supposed offense to Canada didn't stop thousands of folks from buying tickets and filling the stands."

Uh, care to retract or explain or ?

Hey, this is small shit compared to our past... and I'm not going to bring any of it up. Times are tense. Some Yanks think that because we didn't ignore the UN and jump in, we should be snubbed. Well, that's their opinion, wrong, but their opinion. What are you going to do ? Not play baseball, a game invented in Canada (see many past threads)?

BTW, I certainly hope the refs have better glasses than the A-10 pilots.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 04:18 PM

Well Jack,

I can see it happening once, that's just a bad decision by someone in Blue Jays Management and I can forgive it. But if they choose to play it again, then that's shoving our nose in it. I would boycott Jays games and hope that others would too.

'Spaw, Yeah, you've got me there. I'm still the best Banjo playing Latimer in Whitby though.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 03:58 PM

The fact that Canada is in North America has nothing to do with it. THat song has nothing to do with Canada. Kim C, do you really not know anything about the song "God Bless America"? If you do not, you are in the right place to ask. There's a lot of musical knowledge in the Mudcat.

I found an article quoting Blue Jays management saying they chose to play the song to show that they do not agree with the stance of the Canadian government. They have not decided if they will play the song at Sunday games and on holidays as requested by the league.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: Kim C
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 03:32 PM

Ummmmm, technically, isn't Canada in North America? I mean, the song says God Bless AMERICA, not God Bless the USA.

Don't y'all reckon there are bigger fish to fry that this?

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: GUEST,Sarah, a guest
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 03:25 PM

As a hereditary Yankees fan, I can say THAT was a bit of a jaw-dropper. I guess MLB thought it wouldn't smack of unilateralism if they used Celine Dion's record. Irate letters to Selig are in order, I think.

Meantime perhaps residents of the Blue States should respectfully request that the rest of the world not mistake Republicans for Americans, hard though it may be these days.

Sarah

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: GUEST,Susanl
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 03:08 PM

James is right. Quebec is a different story.

I disagree with playing only the host's national anthem. One could make a case against playing anthems at all at a sporting event but if any anthems get played, then the anthems of both teams should be played.

JenEllen, I don't know any Canadians who hold all Americans responsible for decisions made by corporations and/or the American government. The overwhelming feeling here is affectionate and respectful towards the American people. What I objected to was the imposition of a political stance at a sporting event. And let's say I'd bought tickets for opening day for my nephew and me. I didn't hear about the God Bless America clause until yesterday. So, would I have told my nephew that we couldn't go because I objected to their God Bless America decision? Possibly. I guess it would have been an opportunity to teach my nephew about taking a stand. But it also would have ruined a 9 year old's day. It was just inappropriate for Major League Baseball to dictate what they did and for the Jays to comply.

They did play God Bless America at the 7th inning stretch yesterday and there was some cheering. Canadians who disagreed would have been forced to boo God Bless America in order for their voices to be heard. I don't know any Canadians who would do that because it would be disrespectful to Americans and we LIKE Americans. It was unfair for any of us to be put in that position.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 03:02 PM

She may not always be right Steve, but she sure is GOOD!

Spaw

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: GUEST,James
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 03:01 PM

And who's national anthem should be "told" to play ?

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 02:56 PM

'Spaw,

Why and how it got started is a good question. It's something that I never thought about. Heck, I remember going to movies in the early sevnties and having to stand for Oh Canada. Now, let me share one of my lastest pet peeves. When I played hockey Oh Canada was played before games. We removed our helmets and stood at attention. I watch players now with helmets on, shuffling their feet, talking to other players etc. Peolpe in the stands are talking etc. It drives me nuts. I guess my take is that the playing of the National Anthem is something that will take place, show a little respect for a minute or so.

JenEllen, don't go encouraging Susan. She is not always right.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: GUEST,Jays fan
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 02:55 PM

It came up in the Hose of Commons. Apparently MLB has been inundated with e mails about it. All it tells me is that America is still America...Corporate insensitivity and political arrogance.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: GUEST,James
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 02:52 PM

Jeese, ait was booed in Quebec, they boo ALL anthems there, even Canadas.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: GUEST,James
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 02:50 PM

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: Metchosin
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 02:48 PM

why, after Canadian fans booed the American National Anthem at an earlier sporting event, would anyone assume that sooner or later Canadians wouldn't get their noses rubbed in it? Take the punch....Ach! its only a game....

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: Amos
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 02:47 PM

Jeeze Louise, guys...take a chill pill and find your centers. Spaw's right about the hot dogs, though...

A

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 02:47 PM

Who are YOU???

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 02:46 PM

I was there, I happened.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 02:31 PM

Does anyone have any proof that this happened?
There's no mention on the cbc website and it is April first.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 02:27 PM

I went to the game not knowing that God Bless America would be played. It never occured to me that I would be coerced into tacit support for thos American political propaganda. I was even more offended by Lincoln Alexander, who I thought had better sense. If Americans wish to be seen as respecting the rights of others, they need to stop making excuses for their own ignorance of other cultures.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: GUEST,James
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 01:38 PM

I don't mind the playing of anthems. However, perhaps we should restrict ourselves to anthems of the host country. It would certainly avoid a lot of controversy and misunderstanding.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: JenEllen
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 01:33 PM

Susan, you are correct, as always. What I personally find offensive is that, once again, Americans are being stereotypically labeled as responsible for an action. Our government is supposedly of and for the people, and you see how little control we have over that, so what makes anyone think we can dictate, or are responsible for, the actions of a private corporation? The only way to get them is in the pocketbook, and the supposed offense to Canada didn't stop thousands of folks from buying tickets and filling the stands.
~JE

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 01:20 PM

Truthfully, I have always wondered what the point of the/any National Anthem was at a sports event, maybe with the exception of the Olympics. What's the point? Outside of the old joke about the last two words of the Star Spangled Banner being "Play Ball," I can't see it. Have we researched this before? Where did this start?

Every damn sports event in the US begins with the SSB. I can understand some local tune thing like "Back Home Again in Indiana" at the Indy 500 or "My Old Kentucky Home" at the Kentucky Derby, but what's with the SSB? Every high school football game and every pro ball game begin with it. You go to some third mile dirt track in the sticks and they play the damn thing. Why do I need to verify my patriotism to watch 40 shitkickers in half-assed jalopies while choking on dust on a 95 degree afternoon? Do I need to be a patriot to see a ten year old drop a fly in short right?

What IS the point?

Spaw

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: GUEST,James
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 01:09 PM

Susan, you better that much better than I have..but it is what I, and others, have been trying to say. Thanks

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: GUEST,Susanl
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 12:53 PM

That last post was from me. I didn't mean to post as an anonymous guest.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 12:49 PM

Insisting on God Bless America being sung in the seventh inning at a Canadian ball park was wrong. It was a baseball game, not a political rally and I thought it was awfully cheap. I'm ashamed that the Jays complied. This has nothing to do with my opinions on George Bush or Iraq. It was completely inappropriate to insist we symbolically support the U.S. government's decisions on Iraq just because we have a major league baseball team.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 12:35 PM

gnu, I get good curling here every time I go to the beauty shop where their sign on a hearse parked out front says "We curl up and dye for you!"

Ya'll know them hot dogs are so full of pree-zurv-ah-tees that they are intact 12 years later when dug up at a landfill, right? Nasty, nasty stuff!!

Spaw, nailed 'em, agin...darlin'

kat

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 12:30 PM

Bill D.

I'm sure that there are some good ones, I just haven't had them. I visit the U.S. a lot and it seems that every one is drinking Bud or Coors Lite. I always bring a couple of cases of Canadian Beer with me, it goes pretty quickly.

'Spaw, oh, THOSE hot dogs. Yeah, you can get them in any hockey arena in Canada. Accompany one with a cup of vending machine chicken soup and you've got the worst meal you've ever had.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 12:29 PM

When does it stop being "a game" ?When does it start to be...no Canadian Anthem. If this kind of control it to be held by Canadian Corps. operating in Canada..where does it stop. I think we do deserve some respect in our own house.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: JenEllen
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 11:51 AM

It was a ridiculous and stupid stunt, but hardly as stupid as all the uproar OVER it. For shit's sake, it's the seventh inning stretch---go for a walk, get a beer and a dog, or just plug your ears and hum 'Take Me Out to the Ballgame', but most of all remember that IT'S A GAME!!!
~J

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: gnu
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 11:33 AM

SHHHH !!!

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: Metchosin
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 11:17 AM

April Fools!!!!!

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: gnu
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 10:56 AM

Oops, since I drink Canehdian Bud, that should read, I AM A CANADIAN IDIOT. Take that any way you want.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: gnu
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 10:51 AM

I AM AN IDIOT !

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 10:48 AM

".... that swill that you guys call beer"

tsk, Steve...you haven't been offered the GOOD stuff! There are many, many breweries now that make world class beer. Don't let the idiots who still drink Bud lite influence your opinion.

Ever since the New Albion brewery in about 1977, US beer has gotten better & better.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: gnu
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 10:40 AM

Sounds like they'd go well with some TTB.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: GUEST,James
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 10:39 AM

I agree that the US national anthem should be played in Canada when American teams are playing, and it should be treated with respect. It was the dictating of Playing God Bless America that riled me. I am sure that Americans would feel the same way if this were dictated to them. It is just a matter of courtesy and respect toward a host country.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 10:39 AM

That's complete bullshit Steve!!! Good American dogs are all a pasty gray color and have been steaming in the bun for 3 days! Plus we allow up to 2% floor sweepings and rat excrement in ours! You need it for them to be tasty!

Spaw

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 10:33 AM

Well, as as Canadian this insulted me at first. However, Oh Canada is played before all NHL games and the majority of them are in the States. I would rise for it as I would out of respect for any National Song, but, I wouldn't sing it. I do agree it's a pretty sad move by MLB. The Star Bangled Banner had already been sung before the start of the game.      

'Spaw, you'd have a riot on your hands if you tried to force us to drink that swill that you guys call beer. And good luck beating a Shopsy's or Schneiders all beef hot dog.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: gnu
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 10:32 AM

I didn't miss the point. I just had nothing constructive to add to the thread so I thought I'd take the opportunity to praise our young ladies and men for the great curling. Anyone who missed these games missed some excellent curling, even if it was at a junior level.

Spaw... they do sell Bud, but it's brewed in Canada so it actually tastes like beer.

BTW, God bless America and GO 7TH.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: GUEST,James TrelawneyCanada
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 10:29 AM

I guees if more than one person critizes you Spaw you think they are all the same person..can't imagine two people who would disagree..I come here quite often actually, but do not post often..your views are obvious in many threads.
   I cannot speak for the other guests, but i do find you a tad sensitive.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 10:23 AM

No One is American Bashing, nor is anyone stereotyping. I hate that word because people always use it to "stereotype" those with whom they disagree as "anti-American" or America bashing. The specious arguement that a song at sporting eventis nothing compared to what is going on in Iraq is tiresome, to say the least. The point is That America does behave in an arrogant manner much of the time..It does not mean that individual Americans are arrogant...that was neither said nor implied, which is, I think, obvious.
   To insist on American Patriotism in a forgien country is rude and yes, arrogant. To call us anti-american for resenting it is just another dose of the same crap.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 10:22 AM

If the issue ain't baseball, then go out and start your own league like you did with that Mickey Mouse CFL thing! I think the Canadian parks ought to have to serve only American foods and especially American hot dogs and Budweiser or Miller beer. Hell, I doubt you even HAVE Cracker Jacks!!! You wanna' play baseball with us, play it our way!!

Spaw

(BTW, you're a piss poor troll that obviously spends very little time here. Otherwise you would have both ignored my first post because my views are well enough known by most that they knew I was joking. Second, these multiple Guest/Predominantly Guest postings generally means that all the Guests are the same one, especially when you make no effort to change the style and wording of your multiple identities. Maybe it's just an April Fool you're doing because if you're serious about wanting to be a troll, you really have a long way to go.)

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 10:18 AM

Gee, Spaw, someone took you seriously!! Better get the Reg boyz in here to fix things up!

FWIW, I think it is outrageous that the anthem was used in such a way and in a foreign country. I, as an American, am totally opposed to the war and am glad that Canada and other countries keep telling our government that they are wrong.

One thing I think it is good to note...imo, baseball and other sports do often attract the more patriotic-touting types, so...I guess they may be in people's faces more then some of the rest of us.

*ducking and covering my head for that last bit*

kat

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: GUEST,Paul S
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 10:16 AM

While we're all American-bashing, let's just think about a couple of things:

(1) References to "yankee arrogance" piss me off because once again, someone is using a generality to judge an entire nation (yep, that's called stereotyping). I've known a few Americans, and didn't find any of them arrogant. Even if they were the only ones, I'd be pissed on their behalf.

(2) Let's remember that there are people in Iraq who wish their only problem was a song at a sporting event. But they've been too busy being oppressed, killed, raped, tortured, used as a bullet shield, etc. by their own government.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 10:11 AM

Gnu, you have missed the point of the thread. Baseball is not the issue...Respect is the issue.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: gnu
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 10:08 AM

Wh cares about baseball ? Canada won both golds at the World Junior Curling Championship on the weekend. And congrats to the US ladies on their silver.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 09:59 AM

I too watched the game last night and found the assumption that Canadians should honour America in this way staggeringly insulting. I have been attempting to E mail MLB and The Toronto Blue Jays to express my anger but BOTH web sites are unavilable..is there a reason for this. I am bored to death with this BS of America the great..Petty bunch of spoilt brats.