Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Peter the Squeezer Date: 22 Apr 21 - 02:17 AM How about this one?? Words by Les Barker Tune - Dam Busters by Eric Coates Tracy likes Pina Colada My Uncle Ron drives a Lada We all sing the Birdie Song Then somehow they all know WE'RE ENGLISH Then we change all our Pesatas Then we get laid by the waiters Then we sing the Birdie Song Then we go home |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Steve Shaw Date: 21 Apr 21 - 07:06 PM Blake's Jerusalem is inspiring, but I feel that the spirit of the words has been much misinterpreted. We don't want any Second Amendment shite... The big tune from Holst's Jupiter is wonderful, but not, please, I vow to thee my country. Apart from that, I can't be arsed to think any more. |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: The Sandman Date: 21 Apr 21 - 05:21 PM Keep that wheel a turning |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Jack Campin Date: 21 Apr 21 - 02:42 PM Re some things upthread that need fixed: Britain doesn't legally have a national anthem. God Save the Quing has never been adopted as such by any act of Parliament (it was written ti be George II's personal anthem, at a time when national anthems didn't exist). And there have been many variant sets of words for it, none ever standardized. A lot of Scots like to get outraged about the second verse quoted here, but there's never been a law to say anyone had to sing it, and it probably hasn't been except on very rare occasions. (Percy Scholes's book "God Save the King!" has everything any sane person would want to know about its history). Parry's "Jerusalem" had strange origins - morphing from oddball militarist propaganda to suffragette anthem within months. The WI only took it up after the suffragettes had achieved their objective. http://www.culturematters.org.uk/index.php/about-us/item/2254-jerusalem-a-hymn-to-women-s-suffrage |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Ged Wilson Date: 21 Apr 21 - 09:35 AM Our online folk club (Robin Hood's Bay) is having a St George/Harry/ England etc. theme night this Friday. I'm trying to learn John K's Brilliant Saint George from his "Make No Bones" CD, but I'm struggling with the tune (& running out of time!). Does anyone have 'the dots' or any form of notation, please? |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 26 Aug 13 - 03:36 PM Actually when you look at the words, Rule Britannia isn't particularly imperialst - the words aren't about ruling other countries, they're about controlling the sea so as to ensure that "Britons never shall be slaves", in line with the principle laid down in court in the Sixteenth Century (though frequently ignored subsequently) that English law did not recognise slavery on its soil. People often read subsequent history into National Anthems. People listen to the US Anthem, and hear it as about an overwhelming world power, rather than the relatively weak country struggling desperately to hold on to its independence. In the same way Britain in 1740, when Rule Britannia was written (by a Scot as has been pointed out) wouldn't have felt by any means a dominant country in Europe. Not that that's got anything to do with a possible English anthem - Rule Brittania would never do. |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Allan Conn Date: 26 Aug 13 - 02:57 PM I wasn't commenting on the piece as much as your own introduction to it. "I thought this was an interesting collection of English anthems" Was just pointing out that for instance the words to Rule Britannia are about Britain as a whole and not just England = and they were written by a Scot. It isn't an English anthem. I know us non-English Brits can be a but pernickity about that but you should be used to it by now :-) |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Joe Offer Date: 26 Aug 13 - 12:46 PM Remember, Allan, that the piece I posted was titled "British Imperialistic Anthems." I don't think the author was proposing them for current use. -Joe- |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Allan Conn Date: 26 Aug 13 - 10:34 AM I can't quite see why the likes of Rule Britannia or the British Grenadiers would be regarded as suitable for being specifically an English anthem! Incidentally, as an aside, the words of Rule Britannia were written by Scottish poet James Thomson who was born in the tiny village of Ednam just outside of my home town of Kelso. Henry Francis Lyte who wrote the words for Abide With Me comes from the same tiny village. As did Captain Cook's father but that isn't quite so impressive :-) |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Grishka Date: 26 Aug 13 - 05:40 AM Thanks, Will, for reminding us of Flanders and Swann, certainly among the flower of English humour. The adequate flag is of course the St George's cross. Sometimes it takes a divorce to become good friends, as purported in the case of Czechs and Slovaks. The Jack was originally the flag hoisted on the foremast, and could now well be replaced by the flag of the United Nations, bypassing the European Union (serves them right in Brussels!). |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Will Fly Date: 26 Aug 13 - 04:33 AM Oh well, IF we have to have a national English anthem - all part of the National Cliché such as we see in tat shops down Oxford Street: namely, models of London buses, the union flag (always wrongly called the jack), bowler hats, model pillar boxes, etc., etc. - then let's have one which nails the Little Englanders' colours to the mast. Flanders and Swann's "Song of Patriotic Prejudice". The English, the English, the English are best: I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest! The rottenest bits of these islands of ours, We've left in the hands of three unfriendly powers, Examine the Irishman, Welshman or Scot, you'll find he's a stinker or not. The Scotsman is mean, as we 're all well aware, And bony and blotchy and covered with hair, He eats salted porridge, he works all the day, And he hasn't got bishops to show him the way. The English; the English, the English are best: I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest! The Irishman, now, our contempt is beneath, He sleeps in his boots and he lies in his teeth, He blows up policemen (or so I have heard), And blames it on Cromwell and William the Third. The English are noble, the English are nice, And worth any other at double the price! The Welshman's dishonest, he cheats when he can, And little and dark, more like monkey than man, He works underground with a lamp in his hat, And he sings far too loud, far too often, and FLA-A-A-T. And crossing the Channel, one cannot say much, For the French or the Spanish, the Danish or Dutch; The Germans are German, the Russians are Red, And the Greeks and Italians eat garlic in bed. The English are moral, the English are good, And clever and modest and misunderstood! And all the world over, each nation's the same, They've simply no notion of Playing the Game: They argue with umpires; they cheer when they've won; And they practise beforehand, which ruins the fun! The English, the English, the English are best: So up with the English, and down with the rest! It's not that they're wicked or naturally bad ... It's knowing they're FOREIGN that makes them so mad! For the English are all that a nation should be, And the flower of the English are Donald (Michael!) and me!! |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: MGM·Lion Date: 26 Aug 13 - 04:14 AM I have always thought that the opening lines of I Vow To Thee... are grounds for divorce: "Entire & whole & perfect the service of my love"? "Entire"? What about one's wife or husband, then: don't they get any??? Nobody seems to have mentioned what has always seemed to me the main thing to be said in favour of the present one ~~ its delightful brevity. When one has sat, waiting for the match to begin, thru some interminable boring tune in three distinct parts lasting about three whole minutes from some visiting nation, it's so lovely to know when they strike up our anthem that in a very few seconds [fewer than 30, I make it, including the opening drum roll] it will be over and the teams can get on with it. As to the words: well, not that inspiring, but they are what we have; not particularly broke, so why bother to fix? A traditionally revered figurehead of state seems to me as worthy of standing as symbol of the nation as a starry or tricolor flag fluttering in the breeze. As for the truculent "watch it you foreigners" element that some above have expressed desire for, as in watering plough-furrows with enemy blood like that lot just over there, or banners waving under gunfire like that other lot a bit further off in the other direction ~~ surely all that is subsumed under the one key word "Victorious"? So, again ~~ If it ain't bust, don't fix it ~~ one of the wisest of all proverbs IMO. ~Michael~ |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Blandiver Date: 26 Aug 13 - 04:03 AM I think the National Anthem should be instrumental, emotive, instantly recognised & so beloved of the people that it stirs joy into the hearts on account of its quintessential Englishness. To this end I suggest Ron Grainer's venerable Old Ned, better known, of course, as the theme from Steptoe & Son. Otherwise, as the good old anarchist slogan had it: I will not stand for the National Anthem. For the benefit of our American viewers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7ly_tp-9SY |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Jim Carroll Date: 26 Aug 13 - 02:53 AM A friend of ours, while working as a visiting speaker on theatre at London schools, took the opportunity to record some of the childrens' songs, rhymes and games. He was given this gem from a pupil at an East London school: "Rule Britannia, Marmalade and jam. Five Chinese crackers up your arsehole, Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang." Jim Carroll |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Joe Offer Date: 26 Aug 13 - 02:22 AM I thought this was an interesting collection of English anthems. Source: http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/rulebritannia.asp#Rule Britannia
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Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Azoic Date: 20 Aug 11 - 02:05 PM June Tabor singing Maggie Holland's "A Place Called England". |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Allan Conn Date: 20 Aug 11 - 12:40 PM "Queen, her children and grandchildren were all born in the UK. I'm fairly certain that endows them with British nationality" And of course she can trace her British ancestry back more than a millenium on both the English and Scottish sides |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Dave Hanson Date: 20 Aug 11 - 07:37 AM You must be joking Steve W, it's bloody appaling, not even the slimmest chance of even getting 100,000 sigs let alone being accepted. By the way, are you the author of it ? Dave H |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Steve W Date: 20 Aug 11 - 06:55 AM Speaking of this subject, I've just launched a government e-petition calling for "Oh England, My Lionheart" to be adopted as the English National Anthem (England doesn't currently have one of its own. We have to use the overall UK anthem instead). If it receives 100,000 signatures, the matter has to be considered by parliament. Therefore I'd be grateful to any British visitors who take the time to sign it. The petition can be signed here: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/12159 Thanks for your time. :) |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 17 Dec 07 - 06:53 PM Nothing unsingable about the Star Spangled Banner, if pitched right. The tune is a pleasant drinking song with room for enjoyable harmonies. Sounds pretty terrible when sung with excessive emotion. Or "interpreted", which sounds to me a pretty disastrous notion with any anthem. The fashion for treating anthems as opportunities for hyped-up solo singers to show off is much to be lamented. The thing to do is just play the tune, and leave it up to the crowd or the players or whatever to sing along if they feel up to it. |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Fred Maslan Date: 16 Dec 07 - 09:05 PM From a country that didn't have an official anthem till the 1930's, I'd say you're better off without one. The "star spangled banner" is basicaly unsingable to begin with and when someonne sings it a little bit jazzy or "interpreted". people get uptight. Anthems become sanctified and sacrosanct, immutable and untouchable and ultimately meaningless. It's not worth it, don't do it. |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice Date: 16 Dec 07 - 02:28 PM "what about Waterloo Sunset?????" Actually I had that song in mind when I thought about Ray Davies songs as anthem. The Village Green Preservation Society also has a number of pieces that might be considered. |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: TRUBRIT Date: 15 Dec 07 - 11:22 PM Anything by Ray Davies-- what about Waterloo Sunset????? Certainly an anthem to a city if not a country...... |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Backwoodsman Date: 15 Dec 07 - 08:16 PM "or given that the royals are all german" We-e-e-e-ll, the Queen, her children and grandchildren were all born in the UK. I'm fairly certain that endows them with British nationality. And the Queen's husband was born on Corfu, which surely makes him a Corfiot? Not many Germans there. |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 15 Dec 07 - 07:37 PM Then of course there is always Mad Dogs and Englishmen... |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Jock Date: 15 Dec 07 - 06:14 PM 'Land of dope and tory, Smotherer of the free ...' |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice Date: 15 Dec 07 - 12:47 PM Anything written by Ray Davies *LOL* |
Subject: Lyr Add: SAINT GEORGE (John Kirkpatrick) From: Mikefule Date: 15 Dec 07 - 09:11 AM A difficult one. I am generally against "nationalism" because it strays so easily into jingoism, but I think England is a great place to live and we have a lot to be proud of. I don't like "God Save the Queen" because the main thrust of it's argument relies on a request to a God I do not believe in supporting an institution I do not believe in. Below are the lyrics to a John Kirkpatrick song, which has a chorus that is easy to sing. Being an atheist, I'm not entirely in favour of saints, but I can grit my teeth and regard St. George as a metaphor. Certainly the English dragon-killing chivalrous knight never existed, so we can make of him whatever we wish. The "real" St. George was born in Israel, a soldier in the Italian army, and is patron saint of Portugal, Canada and Macedonia, if I remember correctly. How melting pot is that? Saint George From John Kirkpatrick I am St. George. I'm a champion bold, And over old England my flag I'll unfold. My sword fights for justice, with truth for my shield, And when I come riding I never shall yield. CHORUS: And on my breast, a red red rose, The flower of old England wherever she grows. I fought with a dragon and brought it to shame. I was killed seven times but I still fought again. I was killed seven times but it did me no ill. If the battle be true, then I'll fight again still. In the cause of all freedom, my banner shall wave. The oppressed and down trodden my sword it shall save. In the righting of wrongs, I never shall tire. That the weak become strong is all my desire. I'll watch o'er your horses, your house and your land, And if you have none, still your friend I will stand. I'll strengthen your courage for all you hold dear, To vanquish all doubt, and banish all fear. Now be sure in your heart if you call on my name, For I fight with a fury of fire and flame. Any lies or deceit, to a cinder I'll burn, And once you invoke me, I never shall turn. For I have the power to pierce to the heart. I strike like the lightning. I can tear you apart. On hoof-beats of thunder, o'er England I'll ride. What foe can defy you with me by your side? |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Rog Peek Date: 15 Dec 07 - 06:14 AM Yes McGrath, and most of them would probably be living abroad. Rog |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 14 Dec 07 - 08:01 PM That wouldn't count as an English national anthem. Though I suppose the only people who might ever call themselves "Brits" would in practice be English. And not too many of them. |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Big Al Whittle Date: 14 Dec 07 - 07:32 AM Hooray! Hooray! I'm glad to be Brit I went abroad on holiday And found that it was shit |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 13 Dec 07 - 01:57 PM I enjoy many national anthems. Often they can be the most entertaining parts of international sporting occasions.Here is a website with words and tunes, including the details for the ones that have been scrapped and replaced over the years. (One of my favourites is the Romanian one - written 1848, but only adopted as the national anthem in 1990.) |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: theleveller Date: 13 Dec 07 - 03:16 AM Apologies for missing that, cap'n. Silence is even more effective when it has a title. |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: The Sandman Date: 12 Dec 07 - 12:45 PM leveller, good point ,I did suggest earlier, John Cages4 minutes whatever |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 12 Dec 07 - 11:58 AM I still think Yellow Submarine would be a great choice - especially with its lines "Our friends are all aboard, Many more of them live next door" |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: theleveller Date: 12 Dec 07 - 11:28 AM Why on earth do we need a national anthem? They're mostly just jingoistic crap. Patriotism doesn't need the type of manufactured emotional outpouring we see Americans indulge in (land of the free, my arse). What could be more dignified when (if) we ever win anything ever again, than just standing in silence for a minute or so and contemplating the moment? |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST Date: 12 Dec 07 - 08:38 AM My vote would be for: Coronach (Words and music by David Palmer - with a little help from Shakespeare) Grey the mist, cold the dawn; Cruel the sea and stern the shore. Brave the man who sets his course For Albion. Sweet the rose, sharp the thorn; Meek the soil, proud the corn. Blessed the lamb that would be born Within this green and pleasant land. Brown furrows shine beneath the rain-washed blue. Bright crystal streams from eagle mountains pour. Fortune has smiled on those who wake anew, Within this fortress nature built to stay the hand of war. With the wind from the east Came the first of those to tread Upon this stone, this throne of kings; This realm, this new Jerusalem. |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Rog Peek Date: 12 Dec 07 - 08:36 AM Ralph McTell's 'England' would get my vote. Certainly couldn't sing 'God Save The Queen', I'd choke on it! Rog |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Lindsay In Wales Date: 12 Dec 07 - 05:47 AM I would vote for "The Yeomen Of England" from the operetta "Merrie England" by Edward German and Basil Hood. First performed in the Savoy Theatre in 1904. Where are the yeomen, the yeomen of England? In homestead and in cottage They still dwell in England Stained with the ruddy tan God's air doth give a man Free as the winds that fan The broad breast of England And nations to eastward And nations to westward As foemen may curse them The Yeomen Of England No other land could nurse them But their mother-land Old England And on her broad bosom shall they ever thrive |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST Date: 11 Dec 07 - 10:46 PM Just a thought- Do the English really want to use an anthem that's under copyright? T'would make a pretty penny for the composer/author. |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: TRUBRIT Date: 11 Dec 07 - 10:03 PM My choice would have to be Jerusalem -- which started thisthread. Thisyear at the Getaway we did a mummers play and ended up singing a rousing version of Jerusalem...such fun! |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 11 Dec 07 - 05:52 PM Couldn't thing the tune for Song of the Bow online - but here's a CD which contains the tune Florence Aylward put to it. |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: The Sandman Date: 11 Dec 07 - 05:32 PM fings aint wot they used to be,might be apt. |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 11 Dec 07 - 05:15 PM Here you are, Scott (I just typed Song of the Bow into Google, and it came up in the first entry) : What of the bow? The bow was made in England: Of true wood, of yew wood, The wood of English bows; So men who are free Love the old yew tree And the land where the yew tree grows. What of the cord? The cord was made in England: A rough cord, a tough cord, A cord that bowmen love; So we'll drain our jacks To the English flax And the land where the hemp was wove. What of the shaft? The shaft was cut in England: A long shaft, a strong shaft, Barbed and trim and true; So we'll drink all together To the gray goose feather And the land where the gray goose flew. What of the men? The men were bred in England: The bowman--the yeoman-- The lads of dale and fell Here's to you--and to you; To the hearts that are true And the land where the true hearts dwell. |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Scott The Gent Date: 11 Dec 07 - 02:06 PM Does anyone know if I can find the Arthur Conan-Doyle - Song of the Bow music anywhere or do people just have the lyrics? to_scott@hotmail.co.uk Thanks! |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: guitar Date: 02 Mar 07 - 12:22 PM C Doyale was born in Scotland, but hey he did live in England |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: guitar Date: 02 Mar 07 - 12:20 PM as a scot I tihnk that England Anthem should be Blake's Jersluem (pardon the spelling) |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Stu Date: 02 Mar 07 - 11:03 AM "What Celtic heritage are you thinking of Stigweard?" Good question. Try these for starters: Well, Wikipedia has an several interesting articles on this subject here, or here to get up and running. Extant Celtic traditions in England (as well as Scotland) are discussed in the excellent book Twilight of the Celtic Gods, which will can get for considerably less on ebay or by borrowing at your local library. And that's before I mention King Arthur (a tradition still shared with our Celtic neighbours), The Battersea Shield, Lindow Man, Boudicaa etc etc etc. My opinion is most of the indiginous population of our Islands are probably decended from the people who arrived after the last ice age. The following periods (Beaker people, Celts, Romans, Saxons, Normans etc) have seen successive cultural shifts rather than actual mass movement of populations we know many British (Celts or whatever) adapted readily to the Roman lifestyle for instance. This is borne out by DNA studies on very ancient Britons, such as Cheddar Man. His decendant opened the local exhibition about the subject. I think I prefer the idea of our Islands without borders which is the land our Celtic ancestors would have known before the Roman invasion. A national anthem for England? I like Spancil Hill. |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,ib48 Date: 02 Mar 07 - 10:07 AM nelly the elephant or lip up fatty |
Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Gavin Atkin Date: 02 Mar 07 - 07:27 AM What Celtic heritage are you thinking of Stigweard? Apart from the Cornish, I didn't think we had one, so I tried Google, and the first page didn't turn up much evidence. Gav |
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