BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: Amos
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 04:49 PM

HEar, hear.

Donuel, the important thing is not to confuse the intelligence of individuals with the intelligence portrayed by mass market and media messaging.

Most people are as smart as they need to be when the ghetto-blaster of mass media is removed from alongside their heads.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: PoppaGator
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 04:32 PM

Is this thread closed?

I just wrote three paragraphs and only the first sentence was posted. I bit the "back" button to try again, several times, to no avail.

I'll try again after posting this ~ IF I can post this!

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 04:24 PM

"did she or didn't she at least try to ban books? "

The answer, based on what we have all read from newspapers reports from the time give an indication of a conversation about banning books - no specific evidence she tried to actually ban books.   If evidence to the contrary is out there, none of us can claim to have seen it.

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 04:22 PM

"she ASKED the librarian at least three times what she would do if she were asked to ban books. "

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: PoppaGator
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 04:20 PM

I think the jury is still out on just how stupid the American populace can prove themselves to be.

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 04:19 PM

So whats the bottom line.

did she or didn't she at least try to ban books?

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 04:01 PM

Donuel, with an attitude like that you might as well just retire to that tarpaper shack in the woods and finish your manifesto. America is not stupid,just a few folks in goverment and business. We will surive and thrive and continue to learn from our mistakes.

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:46 PM

The election will come down to {including the criminal electronicly changed votes} HOW STUPID AMERICA IS

Even the financial wall street crooks/parasites know that they have poisoned the host, and still they persist. They will die on the carcass high on the hog.

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:46 PM

This is the first of three threads on Governor Palin and book banning. I'm in the process of combining all three, because our policy is to have only one active thread on any given subject. I suppose it might be better to have only one Palin thread active, but apparently people want to discuss this book banning issue.
But hey, don't start any more book banning threads.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:43 PM

"People think what they want. Even if it's not so"

Well said.

That is the problem! We all hear what we want to hear and read what we want to read, even if it avoids finding the truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: Peace
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:41 PM

People think what they want. Even if it's not so.

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:39 PM

I see once again that someone is lying about what the people in this thread have been saying. Once again...


NOBODY IN THIS THREAD HAS SAID THAT PALIN HAS BANNED ANY BOOKS.

Maybe if we put the thread on Snopes, that would clear the matter of what the people in this thread have been saying.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:35 PM

Not directly, but a reporter can greatly influence hiring/firing and elections.

The point is, we truly do not know her intentions. If a reporter, of if you and I were having a conversation and asked that question, would we infer that the person asking is trying to ban books? I'm not defending her tactics, but if this librarian quickly answered "sure thing, I will ban whatever you say" - would you want that person as the head of your library?

We just do not know what was going on. We are making inferences and being led down the wrong path.   There are more important issues. Her stance on abortion, her religious beliefs which could greatly influence her decisions, her environmental problems, her so called "ethics" which seems like great flip-flopping, etc. etc. etc. There are plenty of issues to discuss that will reveal this person as unfit for public office.

If she was hellbent on banning books in a local library for a town of 7000 people back in 1996, what else has she done along these lines since then?   She has done plenty of things that I resent, but I have yet to hear of her "banning books" or "freedom of speech" as govenor or elsewhere. IF the proof is out there, please bring it forward and I will be the first on line to march in protest.   Until then, we are acting like the lemmings that the other party thrives on.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban
From: Peace
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:27 PM

Ron, a reporter doesn't have hiring/firing privileges.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:25 PM

"The very fact that she, as a person of authority, is asking the librarian the question amounts to an abuse of power, and a use of intimidation, under any reasonable interpretation currently being used."

If a reporter asks the same question, is it also an abuse of power?    While I do not condone her questions, this is nothing unusual - a question that you would hear on a job interview.

I'm not defending her actions, but I do think if we are going to question her motives, we need to question our own. Are we looking for an easy reason to attack her?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:23 PM

"It isn't too hard to draw the conclusion that these meetings did take place and the librarian was threatened with expulsion from her job."

It isn't hard to draw a conclusion if we have a preconceived idea of what would have taken place in a meeting that took place 12 years ago.   We do not have all the facts, and the facts that we have indicate a contrary opinion. If we wish to disregard information that does not support our viewpoint, then the partisan bickering will continue and the great divide will only continue to make matters worse.

Yes, I am scared that other actions she has taken indicate an attack on free speech.   I wish everyone who is so upset at this story would have felt as strongly when the FCC started their strongarm tactics a few years ago after the Janet Jackson incident. Our free speech was attacked and no one seemed upset.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban
From: Peace
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:21 PM

The churches ain't scary, but some of the parishoners are.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban
From: Stringsinger
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:18 PM

Also, Wasilla is a scary place. Palin's church is a scary place.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:17 PM

I find it odd that I would be criticized for reporting the version that is the most factual just because I prefaced it with "people are saying".

Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban
From: Stringsinger
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:17 PM

And yet, her theological bent is one intended to suppress free speech that she finds
objectionable. It isn't too hard to draw the conclusion that these meetings did take place and the librarian was threatened with expulsion from her job.

I have reason to seriously question most newspaper reports on this issue. And the fact is that firing someone for a loyalty test does not need to be defended by enlightened people.

This is a different approach to this issue and should not be placed under the other thread title.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban
From: Peace
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:16 PM

Folks, we be talking about a Librarian. Not someone who's intimately involved in governing the town. Hell, I was a councillor once. That type of thing is plain and simple bullshit; a scare tactic, and a question of that sort should have been taken to an attorney and missy brought up on a harrassment charge after the second time she aske the same question. The Mayor was testing the water, and by testing it twice she was way the hell outta line. IMO..

Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban
From: Big Mick
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:16 PM

I believe this is fair game. The very fact that she, as a person of authority, is asking the librarian the question amounts to an abuse of power, and a use of intimidation, under any reasonable interpretation currently being used. The discussion, to have been appropriate, should have occurred at a city council meeting, and not with an employee. This should have been handled as an official policy matter, with appropriate documentation. But to do that would mean a paper trail and that would not be a good political move. So instead she used the implied threat. Shows that she is just another Dick Cheney style person, who looks better physically and has a nicer smile.

My grandmother used to tell me that what one is speaks louder than what one says s/he is. This person's imperial "I speak for God and know what is best for the rest of you" attitude should be kicking off alarm bells. If you think the last eight were scary, go ahead and elect this team.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:16 PM

Well, then it's been reopened.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:13 PM

thread.cfm?threadid=114180&messages=101&page=3&desc=yes


does not appear to be closed...

Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban
From: SINSULL
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:13 PM

"People are saying..."
The best source for information. Just read the other thread.

I don't plan to vote for her either but at least work with facts not rumors.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:13 PM

Whether or not it is common, it's definitely something people might want to take into consideration when they consider what sort of president she would be. It looks to me like she would be the GWB kind of president.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:09 PM

"I have to say that this looks like a very messy and unprofessional way to govern. "

I agree, but it it not uncommon. Many elected officials expect the prior office holders appointments to resign. If they feel they can work together, the office holder will deny the resignation.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:06 PM

People are saying that Palin was just generally firing people as a sort of loyalty test. I have to say that this looks like a very messy and unprofessional way to govern. The negative repercussions of this are still surfacing many years later. She may have executive experience, but her record suggests to me that she's not very good at it.

And it looks exactly like the GWB mindset of "yer either fer us or agin us". So if she were the president, I think it's safe to say that a Palin presidency would look a lot like the Bush presidency.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:01 PM

That is partly true, but partly twisting the reports that are available.   

According to newspaper reports from the time in question, she ASKED the librarian at least three times what she would do if she were asked to ban books.   Technically you could say that is a discussion about banning books, but it is a very grey area. There are no reports of specific books being requested to be banned, so there is no way for any of us to "know what they were" or even IF the discussion got to that point, which it appears that it did not.

I hate to appear to be in a position where I am defending this person, because I feel she would be dangerous to put in the position of vice president. I'm strongly against her positions, but at the same time I do not want to resort to the erroneous accusations and downright lies that have become the hallmark of Republican politics.

Sarah Palin has enough flaws that we should be focusing on.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:00 PM

The other threads have been closed, so it is not possible to post to them.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 02:59 PM

I don't think there were any specific books. It looks like it was a more general line of inquiry about what the librarian's reaction would be if Palin told her to remove books from the library.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 02:58 PM

please close this and send peopel to the present thread on this.

Subject: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban
From: Stringsinger
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 02:55 PM

I checked with Snopes.

Although no books have ever been banned at the Wasilla, AK Library,
when Palin became mayor in 1996, she had several meetings (about
banning books) with the librarian, and tried to get the woman fired for
NOT being willing to ban books.

I don't really know what they were.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list
From: pdq
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 12:37 PM

The word "hoax" implies that it was done for fun. This is not funny. It is just another of many professionally-written slime jobs directed at Republicans and should be seen for what it is.

In all fairness to Obama, he has been "above the fray" most of the time, but so has McCain. This cycle is (so far) much more polite than the last two.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list
From: Alice
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 12:30 PM

Both threads on this hoax should be closed with a notice that the book list IS A HOAX!

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 12:30 PM

To hell with all this discussion of her past and her qualifications. Just look at what the lady stands for. If one agrees with her hyper-conservative policy, her past deeds and experience are irrelevant. If you oppose those policies, the past is also irrelevant.

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 12:22 PM

100

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 12:22 PM

Well, if you want to look at it that way ... close the libraries .... they now have become antiquated, dinosaurs in an age were peeple can access inof on the web, hang out at big box book stores and drink a latte while you read a book you have no intention buying ... or hell buy dirt cheap book on the bargain table.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 12:13 PM

We need to close Libraries anyway Emma. They are a drag on the military budget.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list
From: Emma B
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 12:03 PM

'If Obama supporters put this list out into the public domain, I think it will help McCain and hurt Obama'

too late - it has already appeared on the my.barackobama.com site
Sept 5th 12.17pm EDT
although subsequently removed!

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 11:41 AM

Man, I think you have lost it, Rigs...

I don't recall any elections in the history of the United Sates being decided because of the available books at public libraries...

That, "my friend", is a major league stretch of the imagination...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 11:33 AM

"I suspect this is a list that the library has, and not a list of proposed banned books"

?????????

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 11:31 AM

*sigh*

This has already been discussed and debunked, at length, in this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list
From: Emma B
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 11:30 AM

Not this one again!

"One false rumor accuses then-Mayor Palin of threatening to fire Wasilla's librarian for refusing to ban books from the town library. Some versions of the rumor come complete with a list of the books that Palin allegedly attempted to ban. The story is false on several fronts: Palin never asked that books be banned; the librarian continued to serve in that position; no books were actually banned; and many of the books on the list that Palin supposedly wanted to censor weren't even in print at the time, proving that the list is a fabrication.

So what about that list of books targeted for banning, which according to one widely e-mailed version was taken "from the official minutes of the Wasilla Library Board"? If it was, the library board should take up fortune telling. The list includes the first four Harry Potter books, none of which had been published at the time of the Palin-Emmons conversations. The first wasn't published until 1998. In fact, the list is a simple cut-and-paste job, snatched (complete with typos and the occasional incorrect title) from the Florida Institute of Technology library Web page, which presents the list as "Books banned at one time or another in the United States." "

from the previous thread about this 'hoax'

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 11:29 AM

Can we combine this with the other thread?

Once again, there was no LIST for the Sarah Palin issue.   This was an internet hoax, and the list is from another site of books that are frequently targeted for banning.

As much as I despise the politics and positions that Sarah Palin holds, I don't think it helps to perpetuate hoaxs and rumors when there are real and substantial issues out there.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 11:27 AM

Well ... I've been corrected, thank you ... I really don't know what the Tropic of Capicorn is really about .... just remember my mother making a public stink about it when it was not allowed in the bublic libraries ... think it was back in and around 1960 or something.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list
From: Riginslinger
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 11:27 AM

I suspect this is a list that the library has, and not a list of proposed banned books. It contains Harry Potter books that the right-wing-religious-wackos want to ban, along with Huckleberry Finn that uninformed-civil-rights groups want to ban. There doesn't seem to be any consistency.

                   If Obama supporters put this list out into the public domain, I think it will help McCain and hurt Obama. Much like the attacks on Sarah Palin have gained McCain all of those white women voters.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 11:24 AM

My gawd .... Jesus was a community organizer, or the Obama is the 2nd coming, Palin's book burning, the secret terrorist killing thing, Johnny McCain doesn't know how many houses he owns, the palin phobia, .... man you guys are really losing it down there south of the border.

Do you need any help from the outside world ???

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 11:22 AM

Truman Capote???? Does the estate of Henry Miller know that Capote is being given credit?

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list
From: Riginslinger
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 11:21 AM

I thought that was Henry Miller!