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BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Peace Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:25 PM If vthat's what Americans want, it's what they'll get. Palin is not a hard-done-by innocent. She's played the press for what it's worth, attacked Obama with innuendo and implication. She will bring about her own downfall. And I won't be sorry to see it happen. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Emma B Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:21 PM Actually Sorcha is correct 'Were any books censored banned? June Pinell-Stephens, chairwoman of the Alaska Library Association's Intellectual Freedom Committee since 1984, checked her files Wednesday and came up empty-handed' the Anchorage Daily News Sept 4th although ..... 'Back in 1996, when she first became mayor, Sarah Palin asked the city librarian if she would be all right with censoring library books should she be asked to do so. According to news coverage at the time, the librarian said she would definitely not be all right with it. A few months later, the librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, got a letter from Palin telling her she was going to be fired. The censorship issue was not mentioned as a reason for the firing. The letter just said the new mayor felt Emmons didn't fully support her and had to go. After a wave of public support for her, Palin relented and let Emmons keep her job.' |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Amos Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:17 PM The facts are that no books were banned; but the mayor discussed the possibility several times with the senior librarian, and met strong resistance to any banning on moral or other Grundyesque grounds. The mayor later threatened to fire the librarian, and only backed off due to vocal protest from the public. The librarian later resigned when Palin was running for her second term. The fact is that she proposed and explored the possibility of censoring the publics access to books. The meaning of that fact is, to me, that she is potentially a dictatrix on moral premises, and therefore not suited to be a national leader. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Peace Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:12 PM I'll second Emjay's remarks about SRS. As for accusations that these are Democrat lies about a Republican--maybe yes, maybe no. Who the hell knows how these types of e-mails get started. However, if I wanted to find that out it would be far easier to look at the number started by people who pillory Obama and see if there's a common denominator. Crying foul when the people doings so didn't cry foul over the swift-boating that went on regarding Kerry should be talking in a calm whisper about this possibly scurrious (sp?) allegation about what's'erface. No offense to anyone intended. This kinda shit takes away from the issue of Obama being slammed. I await the cries of foul from Republicans on this one. Some of those lies were promulgated by what's'erface. So here she is up nto her neck in a substance most wouldn't care to step in, and she brought lots of it on herself. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Sorcha Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:10 PM Carol, I DID. YOU go read it. The answer is NONE actually banned. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Emma B Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:04 PM I love Alice Munro too and thanks to Peace for introducing me to her work. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:04 PM " Considering the vicious nature of the kinds of lies that McCain supporters have been spreading about Obama for months now, I don't think McCain supporters are in any position to be pointing fingers about that sort of thing. " With all respect Carol, it is that kind of thinking that keeps the problem alive. We become no different than the scum. We need to be above that sort of petty bullshit or we are just as guilty. It doesn't matter who points fingers or who says what, ALL that matters is the truth. When you cannot speak the truth, then whatever is said does not matter. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Peace Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:02 PM LOL, Bee. I thought about it for a bit and I cannot really think of any guys I know who finished one of her books. (Actually, I did in my first year at university: "The Edible Woman" and I was forced to write some damned essay on the symbolism of the turtle in the story. It was then while chewing my leg that I lost the taste for Atwood. It's not because she's female; it's because I could never understand what the hell she was talking about. (Alice Munro--on the other hand--is my favourite short story writer. Her I understand.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: emjay Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:02 PM I started this list and said I didn't know what books might have been banned -- none were. Then I went on to tell about a book that I know was banned in specific places in this same Matanuska-Susitna Borough that is home to Sarah Palin. I think the name of the book with which I am familiar came up on some search for the might have been Palin list. That book is the one I was and am concerned with. The possible list was given and I went to the Time Magazine website. I didn't find it and I posted that information on this thread. I am pretty sure there are a lot of readers on this list. I also think most are very careful of any information they might pass on. I appreciate all that SRS and Ron Olesko have contributed to this and many other threads. Please don't come down so hard on SRS for this. She obviously did a lot more research and contributed information about the list she submitted. At least we learned it is what I thought it might be. MJ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: artbrooks Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:01 PM In the For What It's Worth department, I was browsing on FactCheck.com earlier today and, in an article about bogus chain e-mails, they said that there are far more circulating about various Democrats/liberals than there are about the other end of the spectrum. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: CarolC Date: 08 Sep 08 - 06:57 PM Please read the thread. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Sorcha Date: 08 Sep 08 - 06:55 PM OK, so does ANYBODY have ANY REAL evidence that she ever ACTUALLY BANNED any books? I do NOT agree with her stated policies, but this character assaination and outright LIES is truly below the belt. I think it WILL backfire. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: CarolC Date: 08 Sep 08 - 06:52 PM Considering the vicious nature of the kinds of lies that McCain supporters have been spreading about Obama for months now, I don't think McCain supporters are in any position to be pointing fingers about that sort of thing. And if the Democrats could lose credibility because some of their supporters have spread a rumor that wasn't true, then that would mean that the Republicans lost their credibility a long time ago. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Amos Date: 08 Sep 08 - 06:51 PM PDQ: You may not think the proposal of book banning from public libraries is a very big issue. But the fact is, Palin proposed it as a course of action she was considering. Which tells you that she would consider such a course of action. WHich in turn, directly implies that she is ready to be a dictatrix on moral grounds, in direct contradiction to the spirit and letter of the Constitution and Declaration. Maybe she should study Constitutional law to become better qualified for the position. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 08 Sep 08 - 06:40 PM "You made it sound like the list was bogus." This list is bogus in connection with this story, which is what this thread was about. PDQ's point is well taken - we end up being cast as unthinking lemmings instead of making sound choices. There is a lot to distrust about McCain and Palin. I am scared that she might promote the banning of books, but we cannot pass judgement without facts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: pdq Date: 08 Sep 08 - 06:36 PM "It is more dangerous to accuse someone of something that they did not do, and that will only hurt Obama's chances." Yes, this entire thread is based on the intentional repeating of hateful lies. No accident at all. Another example of professionally-written slime. The Democrats are in danger of losing all credibility when they pull this type of shit. They are hitting as hard at McCain and Palin as they have George W. Bush for the last 8 years. When the public starts to believe that the hate is due to the "R" after people's names and not based in any way on real sins, the Democrats will not win another election for a generation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Bee Date: 08 Sep 08 - 06:30 PM "I have read at least 35 of those books and other than her good choice of getting rid of "The Handmaid's Tale" (because Atwood makes me want to chew my leg off to get away--yes, I know she's Canadian), I would have them at my place if I still had books. Gave them all away to the share shop, public library and school librAry. Heaven forfend." - Peace I giggled. Myself, I'm very fond of Atwood's prose, but while I know lots of women who read all her books, I don't think I've met even one man who does. There must be a few men who do, somewhere. I suspect the 'chew my leg off to get away' reaction has something to do with the horror of discovering that many women have a subset of thought processes that are wholly alien to the way most men cogitate on their experiences. ;-D |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Amos Date: 08 Sep 08 - 06:20 PM The MLIF and the Museum as a side note. One source says the book list comes from this site which is generic, not specific to Palin. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Stilly River Sage Date: 08 Sep 08 - 06:08 PM http://www.ajc.com/ajccars/content/news/stories/2008/09/05/palin_book_banning.html Atlanta Journal-Constitution story, posted by the person who mistakenly posted the list I picked up. Her mea culpa included some research. ;-) SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Stilly River Sage Date: 08 Sep 08 - 05:53 PM SRS - I don't think you read the previous posts in this thread. I read it. You made it sound like the list was bogus. So I corrected you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Peace Date: 08 Sep 08 - 05:52 PM Ladies and gentlemen, I said 'if'. The citizens of the US and indeed the rest of the planet have been fed lotsa lies for over seven years. Fabricating stuff to 'defeat' her is wrong on two points: 1) it's McCain who is running and she who is the add on 2) She will drop the ball before November 4. With a big loud bang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Bat Goddess Date: 08 Sep 08 - 05:36 PM Thanks, Stilly, for the ALA website, which I haven't checked out until now because I've been too busy. And what did I find there? That Lois Lowry, who I knew in the '70s, is the 7th most challenged author in 2007. And she writes wonderful, witty, caring and thought-provoking books. Heaven forbid a young adult should actually THINK, eh? What a world! Linn |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Riginslinger Date: 08 Sep 08 - 05:30 PM "The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn," I think it is Civil Rights groups who most often want to ban this book. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 08 Sep 08 - 05:21 PM "I just went to Snopes .com and they say the claim is false. Is Snopes reliable?" Only as reliable as the research. Check the facts and make your own decision. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 08 Sep 08 - 05:20 PM If the list were true, then the woman is amazing and I will vote for her. Imagine someone that could see into the future and tell us about Harry Potter before the books were written. Just think of how she could prevent wars if she has those powers!!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Beer Date: 08 Sep 08 - 05:19 PM I just went to Snopes .com and they say the claim is false. Is Snopes reliable? Beer (adrien) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 08 Sep 08 - 05:18 PM "If that woman really tried to get them bamnned, then she is not only an idiot, she's also a dangerous idiot. I thought America was just getting rid of one of them! " I'm not sure if people are justing posting without reading, but this is how rumors start. It is more dangerous to accuse someone of something that they did not do, and that will only hurt Obama's chances. THIS STORY IS NOT TRUE... SHE DID NOT HAVE A LIST OF BANNED BOOKS. She did ask the question, but there is no evidence of having requested books to be banned and we do not have proof of what her intention was when she asked the question. I've read rhetorical remarks here on Mudcat, but I would not accuse the writer of believing them. I think Palin is dangerous for this country, but we can be just as dangerous by perpetuating false "lists". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: SINSULL Date: 08 Sep 08 - 05:17 PM But Palin is not known to have asked to ban any or all of that list. It cannot be assumed that she was asking for these books to be banned. SINS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Peace Date: 08 Sep 08 - 05:14 PM I have read at least 35 of those books and other than her good choice of getting rid of "The Handmaid's Tale" (because Atwood makes me want to chew my leg off to get away--yes, I know she's Canadian), I would have them at my place if I still had books. Gave them all away to the share shop, public library and school librAry. Heaven forfend. I have taught literature to various grades using about ten of those books. If that woman really tried to get them bamnned, then she is not only an idiot, she's also a dangerous idiot. I thought America was just getting rid of one of them! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 08 Sep 08 - 05:14 PM "The list isn't a hoax, Ron, it's genuine--those are books that various places have tried to ban." SRS - I don't think you read the previous posts in this thread. I realize that those books have been banned, as I said previously, the list is a hoax in conjunction with the Palin story. By all evidence that has shown up, there never was a list in this case. No one is denying that book banning hasn't occured, but that is off topic of this discussion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Stilly River Sage Date: 08 Sep 08 - 05:13 PM Here is a level-headed librarian discussing the matter and includes a link to the news that Mary Ellen Baker resigned, but no information about why. She also says there appears to be no truth to the claim about the list, and I agree with her, I've scanned the sources and don't see a credible source for it. Too bad. But Palin's list might still turn up. They're keeping Palin away from reporters until they promise to ask only fluff questions, so we're not liable to hear a word from her. Maybe Ms. Baker kept notes from that meeting. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Stilly River Sage Date: 08 Sep 08 - 05:05 PM Frequently challenged books. You can poke around in the ALA site for yourself. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Stilly River Sage Date: 08 Sep 08 - 05:03 PM The list isn't a hoax, Ron, it's genuine--those are books that various places have tried to ban. We run a list like that in the library where I work in September during Banned Book Week. The attachment of it to a snip from the article is the "hoax." SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Stilly River Sage Date: 08 Sep 08 - 05:02 PM Here is the Time magazine article. There is no list. Someone cobbled that on--perhaps a general banned book list from ALA. Mayor Palin: A Rough Record John McCain was clear about why he picked half-term Alaska governor Sarah Palin to be his running mate. "I found someone with an outstanding reputation for standing up to special interests and entrenched bureaucracies," he said in introducing her in Dayton, Ohio, on Friday. Palin was someone, he noted, "who reached across the aisle and asked Republicans, Democrats and independents to serve in government." It is a powerful reinforcement of McCain's own political brand: tough, reform-minded, willing to break with his own party for the right cause. And it's true that her high-profile crusade against corruption and complacency in her own state party over the past few years has made Palin the Frank Serpico of Alaska politics: she publicly ratted out her state party chairman; whupped the good old boys' network, as she likes to put it, in a gubernatorial primary; and fought a general election in which the scandal-stained state GOP didn't lift a finger on her behalf. She won only because she had the enthusiastic backing of independents and grass-roots activists. [snip] One thing all sides agree on is that the valley was in flux. The old libertarian pioneer ethos was giving way to a rising Christian conservatism. By shrewdly invoking issues that mattered to the ascendant majority, Palin won the mayor's race. But while she may have been a new face, says Naegele, she was no maverick — not yet. "The state party gave her the mechanism to get into that office," says Naegele. "As soon as she was confident enough to brush them off, she did. But she wasn't an outsider to start with. She very much had to kowtow to them." Governing was no less contentious than campaigning, at least to begin with. Palin ended up dismissing almost all the city department heads who had been loyal to Stein, including a few who had been instrumental in getting her into politics to begin with. Some saw it as a betrayal. Stambaugh, the police chief and a member of Palin's step-aerobics class, filed a lawsuit for wrongful termination, alleging that Palin terminated him in part at the behest of the National Rifle Association, because he had opposed a concealed-gun law that the NRA supported. He eventually lost the suit. The animosity spawned some talk of a recall attempt, but eventually Palin's opponents in the city council opted for a more conciliatory route. At some point in those fractious first days, Palin told the department heads they needed her permission to talk to reporters. "She put a gag order on those people, something that you'd expect to find in the big city, not here," says Naegele. "She flew in there like a big-city gal, which she's not. It was a strange time, and [the Frontiersman] came out very harshly against her." Stein says that as mayor, Palin continued to inject religious beliefs into her policy at times. "She asked the library how she could go about banning books," he says, because some voters thought they had inappropriate language in them. "The librarian was aghast." That woman, Mary Ellen Baker, couldn't be reached for comment, but news reports from the time show that Palin had threatened to fire Baker for not giving "full support" to the mayor. [snip] By the time Sarah Palin was entering state politics, the hottest issue in Alaska wasn't gay marriage or even abortion. It was corruption and cronyism. Andrew Halcro, a noted Palin critic who ran against her as an independent in the governor's race, says she knew instinctively that the issues were changing. Plus, he says, her opponents, such as incumbent governor Frank Murkowski, whom she defeated in the primary, were just as hard-right on abortion and guns as she was. She needed a new political identity to make it to the next level, so ethics reform became her calling card. "She's a very savvy politician," says Halcro. "So wedge issues were not part of the portfolio." "If anything," he says, "she got tired of answering questions about them." Halcro recalls one debate in October 2006 in which, after repeated questions about her opposition to abortion even in cases of rape or incest, she looked at the moderator with exasperation and asked if they were going to talk about anything besides abortion. It was detracting from her new message: cleaning up the capitol. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 08 Sep 08 - 04:54 PM That has been done SRS - as mentioned previously, the list is a hoax. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Stilly River Sage Date: 08 Sep 08 - 04:50 PM It was quite a comprehensive list, but sent by someone who usually researches these thing before she sends them. Let's try a Google on some of the text and see what turns up. . . SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 08 Sep 08 - 04:04 PM The "list" is nonsense. Apparently a request about banning was made, but no specific list. Harry Potter would be on my list, but I can't think of others at the moment (did Lew Dobbs write one?). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 08 Sep 08 - 04:01 PM yep |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Bee Date: 08 Sep 08 - 04:01 PM Ron is right. I'm certainly curious about what books she may have wanted to ban, but that list is not gonna fly - besides: My Friend Flicka!?! Any reference I've seen so far says she asked the librarian how one would go about banning them. If she's such a smart, cagey cookie, she likely never let anyone get hold of a written down list, as even the dumbest idjit would be aware that banning books is generally frowned on and attempts to do so have ended up in court on numerous occasions. As far as I can tell, the woman is intelligent. Someone over at Pharyngula (an Obama supporter) went so far as to read her college thesis or papers, and said whatever else you can say, the papers were well written and the material intelligently presented and discussed. It doesn't do to assume people are stupid just because you violently disagree with them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: emjay Date: 08 Sep 08 - 03:57 PM I went to the Time website and couldn't find any list. Perhaps this is a list of books that are frequently on lists of books to be banned. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Donuel Date: 08 Sep 08 - 03:52 PM Thats a bigger list than I had imagined. There would be more if the library had many books. At least she believes in creationism and knows that evolution is just a theory and that global warming is natural and certainly not man made. DRILL DRILL DRILL BABY and kill those polar bears. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 08 Sep 08 - 03:43 PM Hold on - you are circulating an internet rumor that apparently is not true. First clue - there are books on the list, specifically Harry Potter, that were not even written when this story supposedly occured. The story took place in 1996, the first Harry Potter book was printed in 1997. Second clue - the posted article above does not appear in Time Magazine. According to actual newspaper stories of the time, she did indeed ask the question of the librarian - on three separate occasions. The librarian said that she would not do it. She ended up being fired... but later was rehired because the librarian was very popular. Was it Palin's intent to ban books, or was this some sort of test? We will never know. I do not trust Palin, I do not want to see her anywhere near the Executive Office - even on a tour of the White House. At the same time, I do not like to see rumors and lies spread because it only makes us look bad. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Richard Bridge Date: 08 Sep 08 - 03:39 PM I have no love for Republicans and less respect but that list beggars belief. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: emjay Date: 08 Sep 08 - 03:33 PM Wow! What a list! Many of those books are in my own library. About that time, we did have a Celebrate Banned Books week of month, and local libraries did have displays of books banned in many places. We did make a point of including some in our church library. It's too small to have all of them. Thanks for posting the list. It is important. MJ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: CarolC Date: 08 Sep 08 - 03:26 PM Yes, we definitely need this woman as our president. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: CarolC Date: 08 Sep 08 - 03:26 PM In The Night Kitchen!!! LOL ( ...that's because his little pee pee was showing) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Peace Date: 08 Sep 08 - 03:22 PM The original poster is EMjay, not EANjay. fyi |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Stilly River Sage Date: 08 Sep 08 - 03:22 PM This came through just now on a Native American Literature discussion list. I had to strip out some bin hex code of some sort, so I hope I didn't miss any:
[Former Wasilla mayor] Stein says that as mayor, Palin continued to inject religious beliefs into her policy at times. She asked the library how she could go about banning books, he says, because some voters thought they had inappropriate language in them. The librarian was aghast. The librarian, Mary Ellen Baker, couldn't be reached for comment, but news reports from the time show that Palin had threatened to fire her for not giving full support to the mayor. Mary Ellen Baker resigned from her library director job in 1999.
I'll have to search Time and see if there's more to the story.
List of books removed at SRS's request |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: CarolC Date: 08 Sep 08 - 03:19 PM This page doesn't say which books she wanted to ban, but it says that the most commonly challenged books are The Chocolate War, The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, To Kill a Mockingbird, and the Harry Potter series. http://notionscapital.wordpress.com/2008/09/06/banned-books-week-in-alaska/ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: emjay Date: 08 Sep 08 - 03:16 PM A lot of people here do like the Governor. She followed one who was so unpopular it would have been hard for her to look bad. She did sell the jet, not on Ebay as was reported and at a loss. Selling it was probably a good thing, though. She has had a reputation since High School of getting her own way, of pushing hard until she did. The only fear of her, so far as I know, is the fear that people will overlook her ultra-right wing politics because she is so "hot." Anne Kilkenny's letter is very accurate so far as I know. I think she made her statements carefully and as free from her personal bias as she was able. Anne is intelligent and follows politics, locally and nationally, very carefully. I don't think the librarian every specified which books if Palin even let her know. There were a number of firings when Palin first took the office of mayor of Wasilla. I read about it all, but can't pretend to remember details enough to report them. Fortunately Kilkenny did a lot of that. MJ |
