BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Dec 11 - 05:12 AM

Just heard on Radio 2 news of a train guard ejecting two young passengers, one of whom came back & stabbed him.

Obviously it was the guard's fault. He should have just ignored them.

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 17 Dec 11 - 05:00 AM

""I would not have done it in my youth, if caught my father would have milled me, that fear stopped my generation doing a lot of things.

Well, don't that just explain a lot? ""

Damn right Silas!

It explains why today's kids have no respect for anyone or anything but their own desires.

They never got the training from their parents that is necessary to instil respect.

Dad's tired and Mum's busy (poor dears), so stick the kids in front of the Telly to watch American shows glorifying violence and attitude.

The World's worst babysitter!!

Anybody who expects to produce self disciplined adults from kids who have never been disciplined is living in Cloud Cuckoo Land.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: Silas
Date: 17 Dec 11 - 04:16 AM

"I would not have done it in my youth, if caught my father would have milled me, that fear stopped my generation doing a lot of things."

Well, don't that just explain a lot?

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 17 Dec 11 - 03:30 AM

Breaking the law can be compared.

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 08:48 PM

not having a correct ticket cannot be compared to rioting, however lets wait and see, he mat be innocent, he may be guilty, but that is for a judge to decide.

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 07:20 PM

I would not have done it in my youth, if caught my father would have milled me, that fear stopped my generation doing a lot of things.

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: melodeonboy
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 06:45 PM

"what if it was your son or daughter"

Well, as I was a bit of a fare dodger when I was young and penniless (see my post above), I don't think I would castigate my children for trying to get a free journey. I would, however, expect them to accept that it's a "fair cop" if they get caught!

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 05:19 PM

'He's diabetic and all his things were in that bag – his medication, his university notes, his money, his mobile phone and his iPod. This man had no right to do what he did. If I was him, I'd expect to be charged.'

Always the same old slow fiddle playing when they are caught breaking the law or exposed as having an attitude to authority

In August during the London riots, the thugs all seemed fit to steal, vandalise and abuse. When caught and brought before a judge, 35 to 40% were either disabled or suffer breathing difficulties or came from problematic homes. Maybe instead of prison sentences they should have sent them on a pilgrimage to Lourdes for a cure.

If he had produced the correct ticket like every other passenger, then there was no problem, he never had the ticket, that is a crock of shit that story about the wrong ticket, it has been one he lifted off a platform.

Three years ago here, two youths stole a bottle of Vodka from a corner shop. On the way out they pulled over a display cabinet. A postman collecting from a pillar box outside caught one of them. The little bastard pressed charges because he cut his hand on broken glass from the bottle he had just stole. Case never got passed the DPP.

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: gnu
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 04:34 PM

Oh... so it's punched rendering it invalid but is retained by the passenger for claiming travel expenses for business against income taxes or whatever?

It may NOT be punched? That seems odd to me. Perhaps I just don't understand the situation at all and nobody here seems to be able to educate my ignorance.

I still say he should have been taken off the train at the next stop by legal means and the situation sorted out peacefully, by reasonable force if required. I just don't understand why the situation arose in the first place... if the lad had a valid arguement, he should have made it up front and in calm demeanour.

I am now repeating myself and ya know what that means eh?

I'll monitor this thread on accounta I wanna see how things work out but gnightgnu.

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: GUEST,999
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 04:33 PM

Well, Bob Dylan certainly understood things . . .

"Now the senator came down here
Showing ev'ryone his gun
Handing out free tickets
To the wedding of his son
And me, I nearly get bursted
And wouldn't it be my luck
To get caught without a ticket
And be discovered beneath a truck"

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 04:17 PM

Is the ticket not TAKEN from you when you go from A to B?

Going by train journeys I've made it may or may not be and it may or may not be punched.

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: gnu
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 04:09 PM

Believing you? How could he not if the lad had a ticket? Is the ticket not TAKEN from you when you go from A to B?

As far as the "system" having "a means of doing this"... fuck the system, human's override they system when need be. Something just ain't right with this whole story... we need the whole story.

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 03:40 PM

Sooo... DID he have a ticket and DID he produce it with an explanation even though it was not a return ticket?

His version says he had a ticket and tried to explain but we have no means of knowing whether this is true or not.

Is the price of a ticket from A to B the same price as a ticket from B to A? If so, why couldn't he have explained the the mistake and offered the A to B ticket as payment in full?

I think that would depend on the conductor believing you and perhaps whether the system provides a means of doing this.

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: goatfell
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 03:18 PM

what if it was your son or daughter

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: Penny S.
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 02:12 PM

Perhaps he should have mentioned the problem before boarding. When I got back from Rome, I did not have the return part of my train fare from Heathrow because a pickpocket in Rome did. I did, quite by chance, having retrieved it from the hotel bin to use as a bookmark, have the first part (not collected). I approached various staff at various stations en route, and was given leave to travel on the out portion. No problems.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: gnu
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 02:11 PM

Sooo... DID he have a ticket and DID he produce it with an explanation even though it was not a return ticket?

Is the price of a ticket from A to B the same price as a ticket from B to A? If so, why couldn't he have explained the the mistake and offered the A to B ticket as payment in full?

As for him not being given the chance, he had the chance to discuss it when he was approached for his ticket. That's just a fact.

Are these tickets dated?

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: goatfell
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 01:57 PM

he wasn't givin the chance

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: goatfell
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 01:43 PM

I just feel sorry for the guy

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: GUEST,999
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 01:31 PM

"He's diabetic and all his things were in that bag"

If the allegation that he'd been drinking is true, then someone in his life had better teach him that diabetes and booze don't mix.

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 01:29 PM

He was on the return trip, he'd already given one of the tickets on the way up.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: gnu
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 01:26 PM

If the lad had two identical tickets, why didn't he show BOTH tickets and explain what supposedly happened?

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: Silas
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 01:16 PM

Well, Don, I suggest you re-visit the video. The conductor was behaving very badly, I would not be surprised if he was sacked, he certainly needs some training. The thug that threw him off deserves prosecution for assault.

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 01:12 PM

All of which is exactly what you would expect the young man AND his family to say, especially if he were a thieving young scumbag with more gob than brain.

None of which proves anything in either direction, except the fact that he did not produce a valid ticket, and was foul mouthed and abusive to a railway employee who was trying to do the job he is paid to do.

All else followed (rightly or wrongly) from that.

My sympathy for him is, shall we say, somewhat limited.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 12:57 PM

lennie Main said his son Sam, 19, landed 'head first' on the platform after being bundled through doors by Alan Pollock after a fare-dodging row.

British Transport Police are investigating mobile phone footage of the incident on a ScotRail train, which has been viewed 500,000 times worldwide.

Mr Main, a 43-year-old salesman, said: 'This big guy has basically thrown him on to the platform. Sam's landed on his face, and has a big graze.

'He's tried to get back in the carriage to get his bag.

'He's diabetic and all his things were in that bag – his medication, his university notes, his money, his mobile phone and his iPod. This man had no right to do what he did. If I was him, I'd expect to be charged.'

An unnamed relative claimed the student had been issued with two single tickets to the same destination by mistake.

The video clip shows the passenger – since identified as a Mr Pollock – intervening when a ticket inspector orders Sam off the train at Linlithgow last Friday because he does not have a valid ticket to his destination, Polmont.

When the student refuses, Mr Pollock offers to 'get him off'.

Sam is seen struggling to get back on board the Edinburgh to Perth service to retrieve his bag, unaware that another passenger has already tossed it off the train. Passengers applaud Mr Pollock, with one saying: 'Cheers, big man.

Read more: http://www.metro.co.uk/news/884716-father-of-fare-dodger-calls-for-assault-charge-after-son-is-thrown-off-train#ixzz1gingxWgM

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 12:45 PM

I think the youth had paid for his ticket but there was a mix up and it does sound as if he spends quite a lot annually travelling on the railway.

He landed on his face when he was manhandled off the train and it looks grazed in the photos. This would not have happened if the railway police had been called.

When the guard was asked "Do you want me to get rid of him for you?" instead of replying "yes" as has been reported he should have said "No thank you, that is the job of the railway police - I will call them".

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 12:40 PM

Mike, as I understand it he was given the wrong ticket when he bought it, and did not realise until later

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 12:01 PM

If he had the correct ticket than why did he not produce it for the inspector?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: goatfell
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 11:44 AM

the big bully is now facing court for assult I hope throw the book at him becuase the youth had the correct ticket

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: GUEST,John Bullshite
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 11:09 AM

If the mouthy kid had started to physically assault the over-officious jobsworth conducter, then yes ,
all that happened on camera might be fair, proportional and justified.

But Big man without doubt waded in too soon and far too aggressively.

Curious how much xmas spirit Big bully man had to drink before catching the train
and who he may have been showing off to and trying to impress?

Big man is very reminiscent of the conservative middle class rugger bugger thugs
who eagerly volunteered to swagger about as stage and dance floor bouncers
at college gigs & discos.

Itching to deal out rough justice on the slightest pretext
to any weedy student types wearing less than conventional clothes and hairstyles.

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 10:50 AM

At the end of the day the little bastard was asked to show a ticket, he refused, he then gave the conductor a mouthful of switchers.

The guy who threw him off the train like so many in the UK today was fed up listening to youths with big mouths and fuck society.

The guy who filmed it should have received a swift kick in the stones and told to erase the footage.

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: SINSULL
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 09:04 AM

I have no ticket to give you sir
But I'll pay you back one day
Then I'll put you off at the next stop we make
But he stopped when he heard the boy say

Please, Mr. Conductor
Don't put me off of this train

You F#&&****Kin*** A##hol*. I have rights!

heh heh

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 07:35 AM

I also start to question the motives of the person who filmed this, this was handled incorrectly, I suspect i may be wrong that the lad is telling the truth.
in these situations the transport police should be called .

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 09:23 PM

there could be much conjecture regarding various scenarios

Indeed. Lets say the youth is telling the truth in that he bought a single for the outward and a single for the return journeys as it was cheaper to do so but the conductor at the start of his travels mistakenly issued two singles for the outward journey.

When he discovers this he realises that he has a problem but believes he can sort it out by explaining to the conductor on the return journey.

Like GSS above, this conductor knows he was "doing what lots of teenagers have done who have no money" so tells him that he a fare dodger and orders him off.

It is at this point he (OK wrongly) looses his cool. From his side the original mistake was not his fault and now on top of that, he being called a liar and a thief.


Of course the truth may be that he had only bought one ticket and that he was abusive even though he knew he was trying to dodge paying...

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 08:49 PM

I agree with Jon, if this had been handled correctly it is unlikely that there would have been any commotion, swearing or violence.

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 07:32 PM

Anyway, more on the youth's version of events here

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: gnu
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 07:31 PM

I would agree with that, Don. But I still think he should have been taken of the train at the next stop by some authority in reasonable fashion, even if that included being rougher with him than the volunteer (deputy?).

In my youth, I woulda been on his ass a lot faster than what I saw in the video, but I have "grown up"... to an extent (yeah, I know... ya don't hafta point it out). Once again, there are many details of the entire situation we may never know. And, as I stated above, there could be much conjecture regarding various scenarios... what if he had a knife or gun and was looking to do something nefarious?

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 07:27 PM

You might have a point eanjay, were it not for the fact that the swearing, threats and offers of violence were coming from the youth, so taking a sensitive line wouldn't be the best way to stop him.

If the conductor had simply got a message down the line to the transport police instead of demanding the guy got off, I doubt the swearing etc. would have happened.

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 07:22 PM

""For the uniformed members of the Transport Police the uniforms are very similar and it is not unusual for them to be confused with the "real" police.""

It is also quite common for railway staff to eject troublemakers at a station and call the local police to come and remove them, as can be confirmed by watching a few episodes of "Britcops" on TV.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 07:08 PM

""It really is a shame it couldn't have been handled in a more sensitive way especially when children were there witnessing it all, the swearing and the violence.""

You might have a point eanjay, were it not for the fact that the swearing, threats and offers of violence were coming from the youth, so taking a sensitive line wouldn't be the best way to stop him.

And according to an ex cop interviewed on TV, the Inspector, by accepting help from a passenger, conferred authority to use reasonable force in rendering that aid.

Whether that is true I don't know, but it seems reasonable.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 06:58 PM

The little bastard had a mouth on him, glad to see there was at least one man with a set of balls on the train. I would have threw him onto the track, forget the talking, action without words works for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 05:07 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: gnu
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 05:00 PM

Making it free of charge would promote transit travel use, in turn promoting a more efficient use of natural resources and also result in more trade, albeit "less local".

But... until it is so, I say throw em. Rules are rules. Perhaps a pass could be applied for in certain cases?

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 04:24 PM

yes, or making it very cheap

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: gnu
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 04:06 PM

Well, you have a point. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do, eh?

Perhaps making the transit systems free of charge would solve these problems? Just a thought.

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 03:52 PM

gnu, for gods sake the lad was perfectly normal doing what lots of teenagers have done who have no money. i can remember doing it 45 years ago.the conductor was an officous twatand the big man a little prick and a bully

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: gnu
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 02:54 PM

Penny S... "has the young man had his property returned, since he was prevented from retrieving it by the large person, who seems to have, perhaps unfortunately, the physical characteristics of a bully?"

Odd staement. Re the question, why didn't the lad ask for it instead of attempting to get back on the train. Again, we don't know many things. Above, I proposed that the lad could be/have been mentally impaired... giver the video, it sure seems like he was in some way.

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 11:14 AM

Uncle Dave:

That was also posted earlier by Bev & Jerry @ 11:53 yesterday

Cheers
Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 10:54 AM

GUEST,999:

You wanted a song on this subject? Here we are, and maybe this thread could be moved "upstairs".

PLEASE MR. CONDUCTOR

The Lightng Express from the depot so grand
Had just pulled out on its way;
All of the passengers who were on board
Seemed to be happy and gay,
Except a young lad in a seat by himself,
Reading a letter he had;
'Twas plain tobe seen by the tears in his eyes
That the contents in it made him sad.

The stern old conductor who passed through the car,
Taking tickets from everyone there,
Finally reached the little boy's ride
And gruffly demanded his fare;
"I have no ticket," the boy replied,
But I'll pay you back some day."
"I'll have to put you off the next station," he said,
But stopped when he heard the buy say:

cho: "Please, mister conductor.
Don't put me off of your train,
For the best friend I have in this whole wide world
Is waiting for me in vain;
Expected to die any moment,
And may not live through the day:
I want to bid mother goodbye, sir,
Before God takes her away."

A little girl in a seat close by
Said, "To put that boy off, it's a shame."
So taking his hat, a collection she made,
And soon paid his way on the train.
"l'm obliged tu you, miss, for your kindness to me
"You're welcome. I'm sure, never fear."
Each time the conductor came through the car
These words seemed to ring in his ear:

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: MikeL2
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 10:25 AM

Hi Guest Jon

<"I'm a bit puzzled regarding transport police and the regular police.">


For the uniformed members of the Transport Police the uniforms are very similar and it is not unusual for them to be confused with the "real" police.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=transport%20police&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&sourc

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Youth expelled from train-no ticket!
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 09:15 AM

I remember some years ago the transport police came to the house to speak to one of my sons because he had been on the embankment with some of his friends, which is of course dangerous. I must say that at first I thought they were regular police officers. Also, I was impressed with them; how they dealt with the situation and what they said.