BS: Burning Korans

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 03:56 PM

I am kinda tempted to make a video in which I burn a Koran wrapped in an American flag.

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 03:00 PM

Damnation! A hypocritical fundagelical "Christian"[sic] preacher.

Nevver had one of THOSE in the Land Of The Red White & Blue before!

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 02:40 PM

That is disgusting. What a hypocrite.

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 02:32 PM

A controversial US evangelical preacher oversaw the burning of a copy of the Koran in a Florida church after finding the Muslim holy book "guilty" of crimes.

The burning was carried out by pastor Wayne Sapp under the supervision of Terry Jones, who last September drew sweeping condemnation over his plan to ignite a pile of Korans on the anniversary of September 11, 2001 attacks.
Sunday


Yesterday's event was presented as a trial of the book in which the Koran was found "guilty" and "executed."

The jury deliberated for about eight minutes. The book, which had been soaking for an hour in kerosene, was put in a metal tray in the centre of the church, and Sapp started the fire with a barbecue lighter.

The book burned for around 10 minutes while some onlookers posed for photos.

Jones had drawn trenchant condemnation from many people, including US President Barack Obama, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, over his plan to burn the Muslim holy book in September.
He did not carry out his plan then and vowed he never would, saying he had made his point.
But this time, he said he had been "trying to give the Muslim world an opportunity to defend their book," but did not receive any answer.

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: mauvepink
Date: 19 Jan 11 - 05:15 PM

Terry Jones excluded from UK

Common sense and decency has prevailed!

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 02:21 PM

The views of this person, and those of similar ilk, are not worth wasting time to listen to. He's already said more than enough to pinpoint where he's coming from.

Sort of like peering into a septic tank. You already know what's in there, so why bother?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 11:58 AM

Keep that bastard out of Britain! We've more than enough inflammatory nutters already,without him joining in.

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 09:14 AM

I can't see them letting this creep into the country.

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: mauvepink
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 08:22 AM

It seems this man may be on UK shores February next year (2011). I sincerely hope not

Terry Jones may be banned from UK

Hope Not Hate are on it and Theresa May seems to be listening

Could any possible good come from him being in Luton? I do suppose though he will get lots more publicity once again :(

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 13 Sep 10 - 05:07 PM

In a way it's astounding how much power modern technology and communication have given to a very small number of nuts. I include both the 50-person parish in Florida and the maybe hundred or so that make up Al Qaeda. Scary.

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Sep 10 - 02:52 PM

If you don;t give me attention I will burn Korans.
next
If you don;t move your Islm center I will burn your scripture.

Copy cats:
If you don't impeach that muslim president I will burn korans and torahs in bacon fat.

If you don't move that mosque I will fuck this goat.

If you don't move MEcca farther away from ground zero I will burn Mohammed.

IF you don't stop making fun of JEsus I will burn bibles.

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Sep 10 - 05:06 AM

I do not send fake postings.
The post (singular) was obviously from me and not the guest.
Fair point on the name calling, but I called you fascist because you were expressing fascist views while posing as liberal anti fascist.
I was making a point.
I have never expressed any far right or islamophobic views.

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Sep 10 - 04:30 AM

"Name calling is just a personal attack and does nothing to advance the debate either."
From someone who has no hesitation in resorting to calling those who disagree with him 'Fascist' and sending fake postings, this rings somewhat hollow.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 10 - 02:39 AM

I have endeavoured to read my way through all of this thread but it's pretty early in the morning here in the UK so I might not have absorbed everything. For this I apologise.

Beyond all the arguments about the faults of Christianity and Islam, it seems to me that we have a guy from a little, totally unknown church, who has written a book. This probably sold a few copies to members of his own congregation.

Suddenly the whole world knows about him - I wonder how many copies have been bought now, just to see what further drivel he is spouting?

Dollars from someone who has bought the book to throw it in the trash after a glance through it are worth just as much as those from someone who agrees with every word,

Eddie1 (cookieless)

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Sep 10 - 01:44 AM

Robo, another thing that offends muslims is the idea that Islam is an historically backward religion because it is more recent than christianity, itself a comparatively new religion.

Jim, it goes without saying that all events are part of the continuum of history, but to bring up the iraq body count for the millionth time will not advance this debate one iota.
It is a red herring to avoid an awkward argument.

I am not far right and I am no islamophobe.
Name calling is just a personal attack and does nothing to advance the debate either.
Try addressing my argument instead.

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 08:58 PM

Little Hawk's opinion of 09 Sep 10 - 06:04 PM is quite similar to an opinion I've expressed myself. Islam is a younger religion, and can be compared with Christianity of several hundred years ago. And you don't need to go back too far to find Christians beheading non-Christians (and each other) and burning those termed as heretics/ backsliders in fairly large numbers.

It took a long time for Christians to slowly arrive at and pass through the Enlightenment. Nothing has been the same after that. I think Islam is going through an accelerated stage of just that very thing. There's also a strong factor of tribalism being addressed, as many of the aspiring jihadists relate to each other and the world through tribal relations.

There is also a good point to be made that many of the striking issues which drive the violence are not religious, but relating to land ownership, despotic governments, and perceptions of colonialism/ nationalism.

Most of our ancestors were dragged kicking and screaming into the modern world, and the process even in the most 'advanced' cultures of the day is not over (viz resistance to Darwinism).

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 05:36 PM

Oh, and by the way - you are "a far right islamophobe."
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 05:36 PM

He started a trend ...

Koran and Bible used for smoking

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 05:18 PM

The last ten years of conflict in Iraq and Afghanistan have been extensively discussed.
Do not try to relate it to this debate.
It is a change of subject.
A red herring."
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 04:36 PM

"Just making the point that it is crass to suggest that this latest piece of idiocy hasn't anything to do with everything that has led up to it."

I agree Jim, and I did not suggest that.
I just said this this act of idiocy only made world wide headlines because of the predictable reaction in the muslim world.

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 04:27 PM

"I notice that, despite jumping in to attack me, you have not tried to refute that point either."
Not attacking you Keith - don't be paranoid now. Just making the point that it is crass to suggest that this latest piece of idiocy hasn't anything to do with everything that has led up to it.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 04:16 PM

Jim, I have made but one point in this whole debate, which no one has refuted.
I notice that, despite jumping in to attack me, you have not tried to refute that point either.
It is just personal with you I think.

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 03:56 PM

Sorry to interrupt your premature exercising of authority - just a little astounded that anbody should think that Afghanistan and Iraq should NOT have anything to do with the proposed burning of the Q'ran, or the Gulf wars, or the invasion of Iran, or the Twin Towers, - incredible!!
There again, crying "thread drift" always was a pretty reliable sign that you were finding yourself on the ropes.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 03:47 PM

Aw..I wonder if they wait, if they'll get a tax break under 'cap and trade'.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 03:28 PM

Jim, congrats are a little premature as I am still waiting for Joe to confer full editing rights.
You will see some changes then. (What is the holdup Joe?)
Meanwhile, it is only an exhortation, not an order.

Robo, do you think Jones would have had such a response had he thought of burning anyone else's book?

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 03:05 PM

This brings to a distillation the triumph of appearance and show over any kind of substance in the greater part of the wars between faith and doctrine. There is a war within Islam which is echoed by the battle between the "true-believers" and the rationalists (and frequently confused by the rationalizers).

This guy has almost no followers and no money, but he can grab on the hemline of the internet and give himself a hoist up to international awareness. People have died in Afghanistan over this already (Afghanis, so far). The 'pastor' himself sounds like a severely confused creature, pulling out of thin air the notion that if he doesn't burn a Qu'ran, then the new proposed Islamic center in New York will be removed.

I am afraid this affair will become symbolic of the conflict and turn Pathos to bathos. Enemies of reason on all sides will have fresh targets to aim at, once more outside of themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 08:15 AM

"Do not try to relate it to this debate."
Still acting as self-appointed policeman - or should it be congratulations on the promotion to site supervisor?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 04:50 AM

Lox,
The last ten years of conflict in Iraq and Afghanistan have been extensively discussed.
Do not try to relate it to this debate.
It is a change of subject.
A red herring.
Rather than accept that I made a perfectly valid point you thrash around with irrelevancies, and try to claim that I am a far right islamophobe.
Not true.
I made a valid point which you can not counter.

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: mauvepink
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 08:02 PM

To Lizzie

Where did I say I thought wrong of you Lizzie in my reply to something you wrote on this thread? I actually said "indeed Lizzie" which would point to agreement in part rather than thinking "otherwise of you".

You also write "I needed to put that down, because there has been a campaign in here to try to convince others that I am racist, when nothing could be further from the truth.

Disagree with me, by all means, but please, **never** misrepresent me."

My comments were quite general about the statement you made. I did disagree with some of it but where did I misrepresent anything. And last, if not least, at no time did I suggest you were being racist. I am capable of making my own mind up on people without reference to anything others say about them. If you think there is a campaign against you then perhaps you should discuss it with someone who can help here in charge.

Of course, if you can show me that I did say that which you 'accuse me of' then I would happily look at it again but I can assure you that no such intention was intented or in any way aluded to.

Best wishes

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 06:30 PM

As someone has said above, wherin is the difference between stoning, electrocuting, hanging, firing squad, lethal injection etc.??

Ditto 'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" or pull the first switch, or trigger, or trap, or hypodermic..........

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Emma B
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 04:40 PM

The last reported case of stoning in Iran was in March 2009 when a 30 year old man accused of adultery was executed in the northern city of Rasht.
It was reported that "the consenting woman repented and was spared stoning." although there was no detail given of any other punishment

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 04:15 PM

I always heard that someone did throw a stone and he looked and her and said Mother!!! mg

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 04:01 PM

I remember hearing a talk (not a sermon) given by a Lutheran bishop. He was describing the incident in the Bible in which a woman, "take in adultery" was about to be stoned to death.

As Jesus was about to speak up, someone who was hell-bent on trying to catch Him in contradicting Jewish law came to him and asked, "What say you? Should we stone her or not??

It is said that Jesus reached down and wrote something in the dirt with his finger, then said:

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

Everybody looked at each other, then one by one and two by two, they dropped the stones they had gathered and wandered off. At which point, Jesus went to the woman who was cowering against the wall and said, "Go. And sin no more."

The bishop said, "I have long wondered what it was that Jesus wrote in the dirt. The Bible doesn't say. But—I have an idea of what it might have been.

"'Where is the man?'"

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 01:39 PM

I think everyone here has been misrepresented on occaision. Some accidently and some deliberatly. The idle attack can be ignored but when it becomes chronic and insidious in baseless demonization you have to fight back overtly or covertly. Most people turn it into a joke or ignore it. Still, a lie can gain a LIFE of its own by people adding adding one f and another slander and another.... So f word the liars and f adders. Forget'em forgive'em or f'em.

So far I have NOT heard mention of the Florida bigot preacher on cable TV news. I have not monitored the AM shock jocks but I assume they are milking lots of on air hate today.

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 01:36 PM

I see that the reverend has changed his mind 'for now.'

Once again a member of the religious right gets millions of dollars of free publicity by being outrageous. (Remember the guy who got all the free publicity by saying that SpongeBob Squarepants is a homosexual?)

Do you suppose journalists understand they are being manipulated and just go along with it to increase circulation? Or are they merely naive?

One thing is for sure - nobody doing something noble or intelligent would get all this free publicity.

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Stringsinger
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 01:36 PM

"What do you mean by humiliate? Is, pointing out that threatening to kill people because someone burns a book is just plain stupid, humiliating?"

From what I gather in hearing from many Muslims is that this statement is a gross overgeneralization and does not apply to every Muslim.

Those, such as Newt Gingrich and others in congress are using this argument to bolster
their intolerance. There are all kinds of religious people who want to kill others. Mental institutions are filled with them.

For example: " on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states
he should be put to death."

For those who curse and blaspheme, "Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of
getting the whole town together to stone them?  Lev.24:10-16. "

There are many references toward violence of this nature in most of the scriptures.
We can't infer, however, that the practice of violence is condoned by everyone who is religious regardless of the cherry picking in the bible, torah or the koran.

It's very difficult to sermonize on this issue. Once you open that can of worms, then it becomes pitting one religious point of view against another.

Reason and logic tells us that scapegoating any religion on the basis of cherry-picking
from scriptures which require an interpretation, often one that disagrees with another,
is futile and indefensible.

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: BTNG
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 12:59 PM

well the intelligent perspective isn't coming from certain folk here.....
and all this does is give an audience and forum to nutters like the Rev. Jones and to his opposite numbers here in this particular forum (and you know who you are)

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 11:39 AM

Not impressed with the video!
In practice, surely every true Christian should view Islam as an affront to the teachings of the New Testament! Let's begin with false prophets!
And, I've got to laugh when one branch of the Christian church critcises another branch! Get some intelligent perspective - please!

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 11:19 AM

mp, if you read my posts above you'll see that I equate the wrong which lies inside Islam, with the wrong which lies inside Christianity and other religions.

It is all one and the same, and I was not singling out Islam alone. Please understand that. I take offence that you would, or could, think otherwise of me.

From an earlier post of mine:

>>>"I worked with Muslims from all over the Middle East. Some were absolutely wonderful, kind, thoughtful, polite and regal...from Princes to Paupers, quite literally. Some though, were utter bastards who loathed Westerners and all we stand for.

But then, some Christians loathe Muslims and all they stand for too...so the See-Saw of Hatred is sadly, always balanced just so...."<<<

And another of mine:

>>>"Christians burning The Koran.
Muslims buring The Bible.

There is no difference.

All that it shows is their are racist extremists in both religions.


True Christians are kind, peace-loving, compassionate and tolerant.
True Muslims are kind, peace-loving, compassionate and tolerant.

Those who seek to use religion to preach hate will do exactly that, on all sides, no matter what name the religion may have.

The Crazy Pastor is into Control and Idolisation, not of God, but of himself. Those who's religion preaches fear are purely into brainwashing...

There are little children in Iran who apparently are taught to spit on the American Flag each day, there were Muslim extremists in Gaza in 2007 who burnt Bibles, there's a crazy preacher in the US who wants to burn The Koran...

Those who want to hate, will do so.
Those who don't want to hate, will also do so.

Religion is no different from any other walk of life. It's about 'teams' with 'God' as the manager, allegedly, but of course, their God is controlled by the Corporate Directors of each team, who get him to fit in with their warped outlook on life.

I have always believed that the true 'God' is inside each and every one of us, without team name, without rules and regulations, other than Peace and Love. My 'God' needs no holy books to be read aloud by unholy men..My 'God' simply requires an acceptance of all Peoples, of all Faiths, from all backgrounds."<<<

I needed to put that down, because there has been a campaign in here to try to convince others that I am racist, when nothing could be further from the truth.

Disagree with me, by all means, but please, **never** misrepresent me.


We need to speak out about the wrong inside ALL religions, and the followers of those religions should have the loudest voices.

Thank you.





And here is a wonderful video, brought to my attention by a Palestinian 'friend' over on Facebook.

The Reverend Deborah C.Lindsay on Islamophobia

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 11:11 AM

Emma B says
       "THE MORE YOU HUMILIATE PEOPLE FOR THEIR RELIGION (OR RACE, OR CLASS, OR CASTE, OR LANGUAGE), THE MORE THEY COME TO DEFINE THEMSELVES BY THE THING IMPUGNED"

What do you mean by humiliate? Is, pointing out that threatening to kill people because someone burns a book is just plain stupid, humiliating?

And let's get this straight, does it say in the Koran that if anyone burns the book then they should be put to death?

And, surely, the Koran, like the bible, is open to endless interpretation and is therefore a great breeding ground for nutters!

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 09:52 AM

Lox.
"So we should tolerate Wackos because they will always be around."

If they do not break any laws, we have no choice.
No one can stop him or anyone burning a book, or challenging other belief systems.
People living under more repressive regimes find that hard to understand or believe, but would you have it different Lox?

There are equivalent wackos in every community.
We all get insulted.
We do not go on the rampage.

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Emma B
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 08:41 AM

Carolyn Jessop wrote 'Escape', a moving autobiographical account of her upbringing in a polygamist Christian sect and later flightin 2003 from that community her husband and subsequent fight to keep her children becoming -
"the first woman ever granted full custody of her children in a contested suit involving the FLDS

Her experiences, however disturbing, have little to do with Christianity but to the culture in which she lived which meant that if a wife left her husband she could not take her child/ren; such is the case in Iran

It is not so long ago, in (Christian) Victorian England, that children of a marriage were considered the 'property' of the husband - it was not until 1891 that a High Court ruling denied the husband the right to imprison his wife in pursuit of his conjugal rights


'Pastor' Terry Jones has probably never read the book he threatened to burn - indeed some may wonder if he has read the Bible's teachings

THE QURAN DOES NOT PRESCRIBE STONING FOR ADULTERY.!

This type this of ancient death sentence by a community, in which no particular person out of the stone throwing group could be held responsible or identified as the one who actually killed the subject is analogous, in this way, to a firing squad is also documented in the Jewish Tradition via the Torah, the first five books of the Bible, and the Talmud, or Jewish Oral Law.

Stoning, a punishment with origins in the hadith, (supplements to and clarifications of the Qur'an by various subsequent adherents) has been categorized by Ayatollah Khomeini as a "secondary" principle. Many scholars question its label as 'hudud',
Moderate Iranian clerics are aware that Ayatollah Khomeini made this distinction between Islamic teachings that are immutable, and "secondary" principles that can be modified according to the Iranian society's changing needs.
Ayatollah Khomeini had specifically instructed Iran's judges to refrain from handing down stoning verdicts.

Although, the Head of the Judiciary of Iran, Ayatollah Shahroudi, mandated that stoning would no longer be practiced in Iran in 2002, the laws were never officially removed from the penal code.
As such, stoning sentences may continue to be handed down by lower judges

Many Muslim countries such as Malaysia, Indonesia, Tunisia, Morocco, and Algeria do not condone stoning.

Malcolm Smart of Amnesty International reports that
"It's actually not very widely used across the Middle East and Islamic world... even in Iran,"

However, extrajudicial "honour killing" stoning continues even among non-Muslims in deeply traditional societies such as Pakistan, Iraq and India.
In Iraq, a 17-year-old girl from the Kurdish Yazidi minority was stoned by a mob in 2007, apparently after she eloped with a Sunni Muslim.


Səkinə Məhəmmədi-Aºtiani, is an Iranian Azeri woman who has been convicted of murder and adultery and has been on 'death row' in Iran since 2006

A campaign by her two children succeeded in halting her imminent execution by HANGING in July 2010, but not in overturning her death sentence
Amnesty International is also fighting her cause on the grounds of an unfair trial

THE MORE YOU HUMILIATE PEOPLE FOR THEIR RELIGION (OR RACE, OR CLASS, OR CASTE, OR LANGUAGE), THE MORE THEY COME TO DEFINE THEMSELVES BY THE THING IMPUGNED.

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 08:31 AM

"everyday" wasn't right. In fact it seems that executions have plummeted in the States over the last decade. There are only around half a dozen executions scheduled for this month, including that of Teresa Lewis (also involved in the murder of her husband): Amnesty page

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 08:07 AM

I downloaded a gread Led Zeppelin stereo recording from 15 January 1973 this morning - I'm going to enjoy listening to it very loud!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Lox
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 07:43 AM

"But Lox, my case from my first post has been that twats like the obscure, irrelevant pastor, doing their twattish things, are always going to be with us.
The problem is the way so many muslims are sure to react to this insult, which other religions seem able to shrug off."

So we should tolerate Wackos because they will always be around.

But we shouldn't tolerate the anger an offense that many Moslems feel.


Oh - but you were talking about killing.


Like the killing of 3 demonstrators outside a german base in Afghanistan who were protesting the Koran burning.


In fact, how many Westerners have been Killed by Moslems in the last 10 years?

And how many Moslems have been killed by westerners?


Whats the ratio?

100,000 to 1?

Something like that.


No Keith,

Islamophobia is the Issue, and the first three lines of this post seem to indicate that you have a little of that poison in your blood.

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 07:37 AM

"the world which waits in horrified amazement to see whether the rulers of Iran are going ahead with the stoning of a woman..."

I hardly think "the world" in much of a position to point fingers over this case. The American government kills criminals every day. The woman in question is supposed to have assisted her lover in murdering her husband. You'd get put to death for that in the States. Electrocution is no less of a state sanctioned atrocity *in my view*, than stoning someone to death. But maybe state sanctioned atrocities aren't so horrifying when it's 'civilised Christian' nations committing them as opposed to 'barbaric Islamic' ones? It would certainly seem so anyway, if one believes the propaganda of the media.

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: mauvepink
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 07:00 AM

"There is a GREAT deal that is wrong inside the religion called Islam...and we need to hear the many Good Guys of Islam shouting out about that very fact...but sadly, so many keep their voices low, because they're terrified of retribution...That should not be the case..."

Indeed Lizzie, but no more wrong that there was with Christianity not too long ago. Many of our stately homes here in the UK have secret rooms where people hid because they were protestant or catholic, depending on which King was on the throne at the time. Still we have troubles when people cannot freely adhere to their own form of Christianity in case they get bombed out, shot or burnt. The quiet voice is not just a thing for Muslims. All around the world there are places where it is very hard to be a Christian and your life could be under threat.

The good guys, and women, of Islam, Christianity, Judaism and all other religions, as well as non-religions, do speak out a message of love and peace. Were we only dealing with them then all would be well for sure.

Christianity has had it's atrocities. Some of what we reap now is because of the atrocities Christians have carried out in the name of God in history. We get leaders who talk of 'just wars' and 'crusades'. Is that not just the same in many ways?

In short. It's not just Islam that is getting things wrong and some of their fear is not just of retribution from the 'insiders' but also retrivution from outsiders too. We would do well to remember that as we sit in our free speech countries being able to voice opinions.

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 03:36 AM

Emma, may I politely suggest that you read the book, rather than watch the film or listen to what critics have to say. Betty Mahmoody lived through deep trauma. She is not anti-Muslim, having been happily married to her Iranian husband for many years before her life exploded as it did. However, because of her daughter being taken to Iran and not returned, she set out on a journey that blew her apart, emotionally. It was not just the little children being taught to spit on the American flag that upset her, but the cruelty she saw all around her in so many places.

And of course, Iran, at this very moment in time, is under the watchful eyes of the world which waits in horrified amazement to see whether the rulers of Iran are going ahead with the stoning of a woman...

Iranian woman awaiting sentence to be carried out

There is a GREAT deal that is wrong inside the religion called Islam...and we need to hear the many Good Guys of Islam shouting out about that very fact...but sadly, so many keep their voices low, because they're terrified of retribution...That should not be the case...

And it's heartbreaking that on today of all days, this crazy preacher is being given centre stage in New York to spew out his religious hatred. WHY would anyone want his opinion on this? Why would anyone give this nutcase airtime? I cannot believe how mad this world has become, how deeply irresponsible the media has become.

I weep for my planet...

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 03:04 AM

Of course, the REAL story should be that a pile of head cases are threatening to kill people because somebody says that he's going to burn a book! That's the real madness of the situation!

Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 12:42 AM

It comes down to a first amendment right, and as abhorrent as his message is, Mr. Jones has the right to say what he wants, unless it can be proven to be hate speech. (Fingers crossed).

The answer is simple. Put down the cameras, put down the pens. Don't let his vile message see light of day. The day we send the National Guard to stop his free speech, we all lose.

SRS