A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: kendall
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 04:13 PM

There are no negative people in my real world. I have weeded them all out.I don't know Diane Easby and I don't want to. Thats probably the only thing we agree on.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 04:12 PM

Little Hawk, I didn't say that these singers didn't deserve their success. But be it noted that Grossman put a couple of trios together that simply didn't work before he found Mary Travers, Peter Yarrow, and Noel (Paul) Stookey and got them together. That combo worked.

Dave Van Ronk made the comment about Grossman that he was really amazing. He could follow you into a revolving door and come out ahead of you. And two hours after you'd had a conversation with him, you suddenly discovered that he'd stolen your underwear!

As to Bob Dylan, had it not been for Grossman's management and the fact that Joan Baez took him around with her on her concert tours, introduced him, then chewed the audience out when they booed him, one can't really say where he might have ended up.

But that discussion is for another thread.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 03:59 PM

What Is Folk Music - The Compleat Answer to the Question of the Ages?

No, absolutely not.
I do not even want to clap eyes on such a tome.
You need to raise the stakes a hell of a lot higher than that.

Dick: Diane Easby is [ . . . ] not a friend.

Oh dear.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 03:52 PM

Diane Easby,is someone I have never met.
I saw her fleetingly in about 1974 at CecilSharp house,but have never actually met her,so she is not an acquaintance and not a friend.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 03:51 PM

It's true that Grossman "manufactured" (or better said: orchestrated) highly successful careers for a whole series of performers, including those you mentioned, Don. It's also true, however, that they all had talent worthy of those successful careers. Grossman just happened to be the man to successfully market it to the public, that's all. That was his talent.

Baez, given her altruistic character, would not have been comfortable with Albert Grossman, so she probably made the right move in a personal sense by going with Greenhill...although Grossman would have made more money for her by far, I expect.

Now ask Joan Baez if she thinks Bob Dylan deserved the success he got in the business...she clearly has the highest opinion of his creative and performance abilities, as I think he does also of hers. There's no reason to dump on people just because a slippery character like Grossman helped them to market themselves far more effectively when they were young and starting out.

Stilly - You said: "You'd think a well-placed dismissal yesterday would have taken care of the problem, wouldn't you?"

Ah! But that's probably just the kind of thing Diane Easeby is thinking too, whenever she hits the "submit" key and delivers her own "well-placed dismissal". Think about it. Get two people like that reacting ever more huffily to each other's last comments and it just goes on forever and ever....like the energizer bunny.

How about if I offer a free copy of "What Is Folk Music - The Compleat Answer to the Question of the Ages?" (by Allen Folkwrightson, Stingout Press 1972) to whoever stops counterreacting first? This will be confirmed by no such counterreaction in 100 consecutive posts on the thread (by all participants).

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Genie
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 03:41 PM

LittleHawk, maybe you shouldn't be too sad that weirdfuckinshit.com.   Since that domain name hasn't been snapped up yet, I see it as a potentially great investment opportunity for an inventive sort with a penchant for that sort of thing.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 03:37 PM

(1) As previously stated, there is no-one posting to this thread who is personally known to me. And, furthermore, I will not be led by the hand or nose "somewhere else".

(2) I am, actually, extremely happy, having spent the day (also as previously stated) with supremely talented musicians at Folkworks.

(3) On my journey to said Fiddles On Fire, I saw a copy of the vile Sun which is actually giving away posters of this talent-show heat-winning singer.

(4) Yesterday, there was a considerable body of opinion behind my contention that an unknown karaoke singer on a crap TV reality show warbling stuff from Les Mis had precious little relevance to the forum.

(5) That she is being backed by scummy Murdoch media would seem to reinforce this.

(5) A small cabale of disgruntled downmarket show-tune wallowers appear to want everyone to talk about only what they want to talk about and so keep up an insulting, patronising hail of abuse.

(6) A "personal grudge" against me has been suggested, but the perpetrators don't even know me. I suggest rather that the grudge is against Folkworks and The Sage which they inhabit on the south bank of the Tyne. It's a copyright war, people. SRS has the hump! Ahhhhh.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Genie
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 03:28 PM

frogprince: " ... Kennedy has a a couple of phrases that could have been done without: "Boyle is hearty about her snacks, she has the slightly masculine bearing of the long-term single lady." Does he actually have a clue as to how much she eats? Is there any real tendency for mature single women to have more "slightly masculine bearing" than otherwise similar women who are married? Apart from those caveats, I thought Kennedy came across very well."

Agreed. On both points.
Another otherwise-positive article referred to Susan as a "spinster" - another archaic term we'd do well not to disembalm.

Does anyone say of Ronan Tynan, "I can't believe that voice is coming from someone who looks like THAT?" Or describe him as "hearty about his snacks?" Etc.?

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 03:25 PM

I'm afraid I don't understand quite why a song from musical theater is considered by some to be MOR or "middle of the road." MOR = elevator music? What I usually hear in elevators are things like "The 101 Strings" doing saccharine arrangements of rock songs from thirty to fifty years ago with an occasional Bobby Goldsboro song thrown in, or often these days, André Rieu sawing away at Strauss waltzes.

MOR used to be considered "middle of the radio dial," or what is currently popular at any given time—what all the "hip" people are listening to, sometimes referred to as "acne rock" (although most rock stations considered themselves to be quite "avante garde"). Interesting to note that in the U. S. during the late 1950s and up until the "British Invasion" in 1964 or '65, this consisted of folk music. Or what passed for folk music (see "A Mighty Wind").

By the way, Folkdavie, "Which stars of the folk scene have been manufactured?"

Several individuals and groups. People such as Al Grossman "manufactured" a number of "folk" singers, most notably Bob Gibson, Bob Dylan, and Peter Paul and Mary. He was prowling after Joan Baez, but she smelled him coming, took evasive action, and hired Manny Greenhill as her manager.

Try contrasting someone like, say, Paris Hilton, an out-of-the-cookie-cutter Barbie doll, who, as far as I know, has no perceivable talent and is famous only for being famous, with someone like Susan Boyle who actually has a genuine talent along with a strong urge to share it. In just universe, who really merits fame and fortune?

To suggest that Susan Boyle should try her hand at singing folk songs reminds me of something Jean Redpath said. She'd been singing concerts, folk festivals, clubs, etc., and making records for a couple of decades when some woman came up to her after a concert and said, "You have such a lovely voice. Have you ever thought of doing something with it?"

Astronomers look at the Cosmos with the most powerful telescopes available to them, and they discover marvels. Some folks seem to insist on looking at the wide universe of Music through a key hole and end up just bitching and complaining.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Big Phil
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 03:21 PM

Just an amasing singer. WOW.

Phil*

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Bill H //\\
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 03:10 PM

Check out today's NY Times where they talk of her talent, all the strictures placed on her (and other contestants regarding the press, contracts, and representation).   I loved their description of the judges---the men--"smarmy" and the lady being the antithesis of the Ms Boyle in her appearance which physically precludes her being able to show any emotion (read make-up/surgery)

A nice interview with Ms. Boyles brother was included.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Genie
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 03:02 PM

Crow Sister, amen to your post about why we're discussing Susan's appearance - more than we'd be focusing on the appearance of an equally ordinary-looking man. Even in the days of radio the women were often expected to be more glamourous than the men, but, yes, there were very notable exceptions: Kate Smith, Ella Fitzgerald, Mahalia Jackson, etc.   
But Piers Plowman's reply to my example -- "Walter Mathau can be paired with Sophia Loren as a romantic couple, for instance, but not Bea Arthur with Paul Newman." -- makes my point. Piers said "Oh, I thought Bea Arthur was a very attractive and impressive-looking woman. "
She was (maybe still is), but Bea in her 40s or 50s would not have been cast as a romantic lead opposite a man of the same age who was considered a sex symbol comparable to Sophia Loren, while the movie industry thinks nothing of pairing Jack Nicholson with beautiful 30-something women.    That double standard is alive and well.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 02:58 PM

Flaming? I don't think so. If she's a friend of yours, why don't you escort her over to a thread where she'll be happier. She's turned this one into a slug fest. There are lots of links out there now with more information about Susan Boyle. But when I came back this afternoon to look to see if any had been posted here, I see that Ms. Easby, as unhappy as ever, has continued to return, despite having no apparent interest in the woman, her music, or the discussion. It gets boring to read after a while. You'd think a well-placed dismissal yesterday would have taken care of the problem, wouldn't you?

SRS

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Genie
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 02:51 PM

Norman D, you're right about Susan being put on TV because of her visual image - and its contrast to her vocal skill.   There are no doubt equally gifted singers turned away at Broadway auditions every day.   Vocal talent like Susan's may be 1 in 100,000, even maybe 1 in a million - it's not 1 in a trillion.   
But I think the reason Susan is winning "fans" around the world goes beyond just the plain-Jane-with-the-beautiful-voice thing.   What impresses me most is how genuine and natural and self-accepting she is. I admire and envy her that more than I envy her voice, and I'd wager a lot of more conventionally "beautiful" people around the world are drawn to her for the same reason.

Genie

PS
Mark Bernier, I agree this lady has incredible courage, confidence, grit. Call it whatever you like, except can we please find a less sexist expression to describe a woman with these qualities than "she's got balls?"
*g*

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: GUEST,Quasi Modo
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 02:48 PM

Being ugly hasn't done Dick Gaughan any harm.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 02:38 PM

SRS,Why do youkeep flaming,do you have apersonal grudge against Diane Easby

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 02:29 PM

The conversation, while it was about Susan Boyle and the competition she entered, was interesting. Since Diane Easby and her sour attitude keeps coming back and jerking the thread around to everything else, it is getting boring. Maybe she'll spend long enough at her Flippin' Fumin' Fiddles today that the conversation will have an opportunity to get back on track?

SRS

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 02:23 PM

The Sun is indeed disgusting. We have its spiritual equivalent here in Canada, the Toronto Sun. It is probably the stupidest newspaper in this country, focusing mainly on sex, pics of babes in bikinis (but no actual nudity...this is Canada!), violence, shameless pandering to people's grossest emotions, and stories that elicit fear and hatred and promote a fascist social agenda.

I can't help but wonder if these two illustrious periodicals are owned by the same corporate management?

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 02:04 PM

jack ,how is that different form someone having guitar lessons.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 02:00 PM

"One might think you actually enjoy the negativity."

Heh! Quite likely, Jeri! ;-) The world is chock full of confrontational people who thoroughly enjoy getting upset or really worked up about something, trivial or otherwise, and then mouthing off about it to anyone who will listen. It strengthens their perhaps fragile sense of identity, bolsters their hungry ego, and makes them feel like their powerful opinion fecking matters...!   (that's always questionable)(and definitely up for debate)

But Spaw - I am very upset to find out that the site weirdfuckinshit.com does not exist! I had hoped to find much there that would interest me. You owe me, man. Bigtime.

Regarding the Morris Dancing...well, I have to agree with you 100% there. No way that weirdass archaic incomprehensible stuff should be allowed to be discussed on this Folk and Blues site. Uh-uh. It's definitely not appropriate. W.C. Fields hated Morris Dancers! So did luminaries such as Elmore Bumwit and Fuckminster Buller. Even hamsters can't tolerate it, and they'e very tolerant creatures. In my opinion, Morris Dancing should be banned outright in the civilized world.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 01:42 PM

(1) I'm not talking about "f*lk" music. I never do. Read innumerable posts passim.

(2) I am also not making "offhand remarks" about Fiddles On Fire. I find it remarkable and excellent that Folkworks have brought this to London. Ali Anderson was grinning all over his face at its success, and justly so.

(3) What I did make an offhand remark about was that someone's Sun on the tube this morning on the way to said event had a full-page poster of this latest manufactured karaoke "star".

[The Sun is a disgusting, Murdoch-owned travesty of a daily newspaper renowned for its page 3 featuring an abundance of unclad tits].

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 01:33 PM

this is a great victory,for everyone that believes in home made music

What's home made about it? She did a full length course at a drama school.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: jacqui.c
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 01:31 PM

No problem with other people's opinions. What pisses me off is when those particular people go on to castigate others because they they are taking part in the discussion. If you don't like the thread subject, stay out of the thread.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 01:21 PM

"That's nothing compared to the reaction of some of the posters here who seem to feel that any singer who chooses a genre other than folk music is beneath consideration"

As ever, this is in part a thread about individual musical taste, perfectly exemplified by the post the above quote is from. Some people like light entertainment MOR type singers, some wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. Statements like "anyone who likes singing MUST like this" are meaningless. No-one has to like anything. I'm not trying to piss on anyone's chips, but these public compulsions, like the beatification of Diana and the vilification and later beatification of Jade Goody are simply weird. And if you dissent you're not simply stating an opinion - you're actually BAD. Social psychologists will have a field day.

Personally I don't watch these talent shows, because "they say nothing to me about my life" (to quote the once sainted now moribund Morrissey). Having said that, I listen to plenty of stuff most Mudcatters wouldn't pee on if it was on fire, stuff which gives me far more pleasure than I get from Shirley Bassey or Elaine Paige and their soundalikes, for example, which frankly, makes me want to leave the room. 'Orses for courses, guv. Nothing more and nothing less.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 01:16 PM

Back to the thread topic...

CNN has posted a video of interviews with the pub owner and the church organist in Susan's home town.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2009/04/18/shubert.uk.boyle.neighbors.cnn

"Hometown Proud Of New Star"

They are proud of her and that she is being "just herself". Unvarnished, unpolished, and brimming with heart.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 01:11 PM

I do not think people talking about something other than folk music means they don't love folk music. It's not a loyalty issue.

Diane, I don't know why you have to post to a thread you don't like 16 times in a relatively short amount of time and just make an off-hand remark about Fiddles on Fire. One might think you actually enjoy the negativity. Would you really rather talk about something you don't like in a thread you don't think should exist with people you don't respect than start a thread on something you DO like? Never heard of the show before, and it would probably make for a great thread.

I don't the performance was set up, but definitely edited. For me, the charm is in the surprise. Everybody watching it can feel like they've made a discovery in an unlikely place.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: open mike
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:58 PM

become a fan here: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=72212861218

the you tube clip posted here has had 25,714,086 views!

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:50 PM

yes,Kendall ,my old wag,and I said that I wouldnt like to hear her sing it,I said she should sing that which she enjoys singing.
same as you and me.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:47 PM

Song For Ireland

Ah, yes. Forgot I had something to say about this.
Phil & June Colclough from Staffordshire wrote this. They are not Irish but had a great love for the country and considerable insight into the Irish political situation.
Dick Gaughan (who is half Irish) has said that an Irish person could not have written it because it needs some distance to get that sort of perspective and, likewise, to sing it effectively and with conviction.
What evidence is there that this Caledonian warbler is not a raving, orange-clad Rangers fan?

Still not even contemplating "easing up". Pah. No chance.
Oh, and when you take your sopping dog for a walk, don't forget the pooper-scooper.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: open mike
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:42 PM

there is a link on face book where you can become her fan:
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1094866528&ref=profile#/pages/Susan-Boyle/64833259561?ref=nf

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: frogprince
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:40 PM

Even in that article, Kennedy has a a couple of phrases that could have been done without: "Boyle is hearty about her snacks, she has the slightly masculine bearing of the long-term single lady". Does he actually have a clue as to how much she eats? Is there any real tendency for mature single women to have more "slightly masculine bearing" than otherwise similar women who are married? Apart from those caveats, I thought Kennedy came across very well.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Maryrrf
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:38 PM

There have been several threads on Mudcat taking offense at the way the mainstream media dismisses and mocks folk music, but that's nothing compared to the reaction of some of the posters here who seem to feel that any singer who chooses a genre other than folk music is beneath consideration, and that any music that isn't folk music, or tradtional music, or whatever we want to call it (I don't want to go there...) is somehow tainted or inferior. What a narrow, limited way to approach music. I listen almost exclusively to folk music, usually traditional - and within that I include many ethnic types of music so the spectrum is quite broad. My CD collection consists almost entirely of traditional music of one kind or another. But I can still appreciate other genres of music - including some pop, broadway, opera, etc. I enjoy singers like Shirley Bassey, Liza Minelli, Elvis Presley, Charles Aznavour and (I confess) Enrico Macias.   There are certain voices that are just 'gifted' - I woulc include in that category Amalia Rodriguez, Elvis Presley, Julio Iglesas (not his choice of material - his voice), Willie Nelson and, I believe. Susan Boyle. I don't think she's only destined for 15 minutes of fame. It reminds me a little of John McDermott, who made a CD recording of "Danny Boy" for his mother that somehow got into the hands of a music producer. He's got a spectacular voice too, although I don't much care for his choice of songs.

I'm glad she got her big break. I hope life takes her in wonderful directions she never dared to dream of.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Penny S.
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:24 PM

kennedy piece

Here's the Kennedy piece

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: kendall
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:22 PM

Captain Birdseye, I said I would like to hear her sing Song for Ireland. Thats all I said. I did not say she should or shouldn't. I hate it when some wag reads between the lines. I say exactly what I want to say, no more, no less.
Diane, what I meant by ease up (quite clear to me) is by now it should be obvious even to a self centered, pedantic, verbose pain in that ass that you are like a wet dog at a wedding.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: frogprince
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:21 PM

Actually I slipped past Captain B's reference to manufactured folk performers, with the rest of his post resonating as it did for me. I can't think of anyone here on the U.S. scene who would come to mind. I don't see anyone in the mainstream media here as being apt to try to manufacture a folk "star". Going back a few decades, something like the New Christy Minstrels or the Serendipitty-doo-da Singers. Even those put out some vinyl that was good for a little fun if not taken at all seriously.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Penny S.
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:20 PM

guardian piece today

There was also a nice piece by AL Kennedy, but it seems only on paper.

Penny

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:17 PM

Diane, you aren't jealous of her, are you?

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:11 PM

Kendall asked me Diane, ease up and while you are at it, define folk music

No to both.

What, moi? I don't even use such a sell-by-expired term. It means all manner of different, often extremely peculiar, things to too many people. Like PPM, the Seekers, Julie Felix, CSN&Y, Joan Baez on a non-political day. Or here in the British Isles it means something for the nasty right to latch onto, or else Vashti (clip-clop) ,Bunyan, men in woolly jumpers or wifty-wafty, celticky, tie-dyed, wicker-person-type, patchouli-tinged Enyaesque twee nightmares.

On my way to Fiddles On Fire this morning, I was looking over somebody's shoulder at the Sun on the tube (just scanning the day's posts, ha!, a place in the Sun, jeez who wants that?). It had a full-page pin-up poster of the Scottish warbler, I kid you not. If she's allowing herself to be exploited in that way, is the publicity machine that's already huffing and puffing behind her going to let her take a gig headlining your local festival? That's assuming any organiser would be bonkers enough to try and book her. I think not. She wants to be Elaine Paige, apparently.

I also see someone is standing on their head and going into the most improbable contortions trying to equate Lloyd-Webber-like / C-M Schönbergish-type shit with music of the agitprop theatre. Stop now. Such comparisons are total bollocks. [Historical note: Ewan MacColl certainly had the music hall as a role model, but Carousel and My Fair Lady? Oh no].

Ease up on what anyway? Musical standards? I've just spent the day in the company of some of the finest string players in the universe. In the words of someone you might recognise from one of your dumbed down adaptations of a Shaw play: "Not bloody likely".

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:10 PM

Above.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:10 PM

"So take all that weird shit to a site where they talk about it like http://weirdfuckinshit.com"

Spaw, you're a terrible tease, a whetter and dasher of unnatural appetites and quite possibly a jadrool. There I was, ready and willing to take your seemingly excellent advice (goddammit, it sounded like my kind of forum!) when I discovered to my dismay it was all faked.

Bah.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:07 PM

think about it Folkie Dave,think hard.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 11:59 AM

I am offended that this folk and blues site has threads about friggin' Morris Dancing. While they might use folk music, Morris Dancing itself is NOT folk music........No one really knows what it is but it sure as hell isn't folk or blues music.

So take all that weird shit to a site where they talk about it like http://weirdfuckinshit.com

Spaw

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 11:49 AM

The old Hollywood studio system was famous for manufacturing stars. Kim Novack is one of that group.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Folkiedave
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 11:44 AM

she has not been manufactured,unlike some of the stars of the folk and pop scence

Which stars of the folk scene have been manufactured?

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: frogprince
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 11:40 AM

What Captain Birdseye said; amen
What Captain Birdseye said; amen
What Captain Birdseye said; amen
What Captain Birdseye said; amen
What Captain Birdseye said; amen
What Captain Birdseye said; amen
What Captain Birdseye said; amen
What Captain Birdseye said; amen

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 11:33 AM

It's actually somewhat tragic that we're even discussing this womans 'looks' here at all, though I understand that it's in reaction or response to the banal bullshit the media pumps out so predictably.
Woo, big shocker! Someone 'ordinary looking' can sing.. And there was me thinking that one must be Barbie incarnate to manage a tune. Funny old thing, but I was scouring YouTube earlier today, and what a fine bunch of women singers we used to have (though to be fair I was primarily looking at American female singers - incidentally discovering the kick ass Big Mamma Thornton I Smell a Rat in the process!)- and composed of so many sizes and shapes and with missing teeth and all...

Where did all these class act ladies go?
Not that I'm knocking girls possessed of natural beauty - who can also sing, but somethings wrong with this picture when it becomes a shock to modern audiences (and cause for debate!), that a woman who isn't also exceptionally physically lovely, can sing well...

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 11:26 AM

she suceeded because of her voice,despite her ordinary image.
she has not been manufactured,unlike some of the stars of the folk and pop scene ,
Iagree with Jacui c,this is a great victory,for everyone that believes in home made music,and everyone who follows the philosophy of William Morris,that all ordinary people have the abilty to do something creative.
it is the difference between the highest common factor or the lowest common denominator,it may not be my kind of music,but it proves there are many people out there with talents that are not recognised,they may be literary or artistic rather than musical,but every ordinary person should have the oppurtunity and belief thatthey can be creative in some form or other,and, those talents need to be encouraged rather than smothered

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: jacqui.c
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 11:06 AM

I think that she would have been chosen to take part even if she had measured up to what is considered to be 'attractive' by the media. Not to have allowed that voice to be heard, when the opportunity was there, would IMHO, have been criminal.

Who knows, maybe this will encourage others with exceptional voices to try another time. Maybe, if enough 'ordinary' people found their voices in this way the public perception of what is 'acceptable' might be dented.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: NormanD
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 11:04 AM

"Surely, the crucial thing is she didn't succeed in spite of her image. She was put on the TV precisely because of her image."

Yes, fully agree, Greg. The logistics of this prog, and others like it, are to ensure a good revenue flow through viewers and further advertising / sponsorship / franchising. Any way of generating interest is money in the till. Every show like this will have an outsider who does well, in spite of....

Susan Boyle has made it to the front page of today's Daily Mirror. She is obviously good copy. In the final outcome, however it's judged (by the panel, or viewers' telephone votes, I don't know the details of this) she will have won, whether she formally comes first or not.

That's entertainment.

I think I'd like to re-visit this thread in, say, six months time and ask how many of us here have gone out & bought her first released piece of music? Or gone to see her live?

There's a lot of gushing now, but a few months down the line I bet tastes will be different.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 11:02 AM

Greg - does the reason matter as much as the lesson?