BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jun 24 - 03:30 PM

Nigel "clearly stated by a leading Conservative" is just a euphemism for a lie :-)

John, you failed to mention that you were also a dog lover. How about I have a go at that?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Jun 24 - 03:19 PM

”Fair enough but remember that if anyone ever attacks you by bringing up your physical characteristics, you will have no defence.”

I really don’t care about such things, Dave - as a slap-head, a short-arse, and a former fatty, who played competitive sports for many years, and was at times subjected by opponents to every insult in the book, I’m well-versed in dealing with those kinds of insults - I just ignore them. Water off a duck’s back AFAIC.

And, unlike some, I don’t try to ‘act the Mod’ and dictate to others the terms they should use to express themselves here. If people don’t like what I say, they’re under no compunction to read my posts, we all are capable of hitting the ‘Scroll’ button.

Now…End of, AFAIC.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Jun 24 - 02:41 PM

Dave:
It doesn't matter at all what Cleverly said. The fact remains that the Tories try to obscure their failures with lies and misdirection.

It does matter when the previous claim was:
What the tories fail to (publicly) mention is that the scheme would be funded by UK Shared Prosperity Funding (so called levelling up), (by SPB).
I was pointing out that it had been clearly stated, by a leading Conservative.

All I was calling for was a little honesty. Perhaps that is hoping too much in a politics thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jun 24 - 02:15 PM

Fair enough but remember that if anyone ever attacks you by bringing up your physical characteristics, you will have no defence. Attack what people do, not how they look. The former is a personal choice, the latter is the luck of the draw.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Jun 24 - 01:50 PM

I repeat - you do you, and I’ll do me. End of AFAIC.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jun 24 - 01:09 PM

To be fair, BWM, I had no idea who you were talking about either. And while I would agree that the Tories deserve to be ridiculed for their abysmal record I don't think that mocking someone's physical characteristics is a good ploy :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Jun 24 - 06:38 AM

You need to hone your skills of comprehension and observation, Doug. Nigel’s post of 01 Jun 24 - 05:43 AM should help you solve the puzzle, along with this link.

In the meantime, I recommend you concentrate your criticism towards the bunch of greedy Self-servatives who have asset-stripped the country for the past fourteen years. They deserve every insult directed at them for the wilful harm they’ve brought on all but the most wealthy in our society.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 02 Jun 24 - 06:06 AM

How about names alongside the insults?

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Jun 24 - 10:57 PM

You do you, Doug, and I’ll do me. That’s how I roll.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jun 24 - 03:46 PM

Yes, fair enough Nigel, that was a straw man and I withdraw that argument. What you actually did was throw in your usual irrelevant nitpick. It doesn't matter at all what Cleverly said. The fact remains that the Tories try to obscure their failures with lies and misdirection.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 01 Jun 24 - 03:42 PM

... especially the BS spouted by Cone-head.

I wish you would use names instead of insults, BWM. I struggle to know who you mean.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Jun 24 - 02:47 PM

Dave the Gnome.
I wasn't claiming to believe everything they say. I was pointing out (to SPB) that his claim that the Conservatives hadn't mentioned how the scheme would be funded was false.

If you want to set up a straw man argument, please go ahead. But I feel no reason to try to counter it.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Jun 24 - 01:44 PM

I never permit myself to fall for any of the BS put around by Tory Ministers, and especially the BS spouted by Cone-head.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jun 24 - 10:10 AM

"Mr Cleverly insisted the plan was "fully funded", with £1.5bn diverted from levelling up's UK Shared Prosperity Fund from 2028"

And after 14 years of blatant lying you still believe everything that comes out of the mouths of these con men?

Tell you what, Nigel, I have 47 million pounds that was left to me by a Nigerian Prince. Just send me your bank details if you want a share...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Jun 24 - 07:38 AM

You have to hand it to the PR guy for the Conservatives. Not content with standing Sunak in front of the Titantic muse it seema they have picked theme music from "The Killers."

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Jun 24 - 05:43 AM

SPB: What the tories fail to (publicly) mention is that the scheme would be funded by UK Shared Prosperity Funding (so called levelling up),

According to (Home Secretary) James Cleverly:
Mr Cleverly insisted the plan was "fully funded", with £1.5bn diverted from levelling up's UK Shared Prosperity Fund from 2028. A further £1bn would come from a crackdown on tax avoidance and evasion, the Tories say. from BBC News

The fact that you may not have heard/read about official statements is no evidence that they haven't been made.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 May 24 - 04:24 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/09/emission-from-war-military-gaza-ukraine-climate-change
A Link to THE GUARDIAN, perfectly safe, and a topic that affects everyone in the world so it is relevant to this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: DMcG
Date: 31 May 24 - 04:16 AM

Starmer and Sunak will be under pressure to comment on the outcome of Trump's trial.

My.money is on 'We don't comment on other country's decisions' (even though of course they so when it suits)

As ex-DPP Starmer has the harder task, but we know there a significant chance Trump gets elected, and we know he always bears grudges. Both candidates will take that into account.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 May 24 - 04:12 AM

I think a national community service,non military would be a better idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: DMcG
Date: 30 May 24 - 03:50 PM

As far as community volunteering is concerned, I presume the government decides what is acceptable. I wonder how much will be rejected as "too woke."

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 30 May 24 - 06:41 AM

Also will there be a clear distinction between national service volunteers and community service order volunteers beyond the requirement for those serving community service orders to wear hi-vis vests - a step below the previous practice of branding malefactors.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 30 May 24 - 06:37 AM

What the tories fail to (publicly) mention is that the scheme would be funded by UK Shared Prosperity Funding (so called levelling up), which replaces lost EU Regional Economic Development Programmes funding. The upshot is that the most deprived regions will lose significant levels of financial support and investment.

There are other issues which are conveniently being ignored.

(1)If young people are expected to sign up for military national service, then they need to be paid at the same entry rate as professionals. This seems to be no more than getting the numbers up 'on the cheap;. Another question is will professional recruitment be frozen as a cost cutting exercise.

(2) By making community volunteering an obligation, this devalues the contribution of vast numbers of people who volunteer by their own volition. How will the government ensure the additional recognition of the countless numbers of people who are already making a significant contribution to their communities? If my volunteering was to be labelled as National Service (albeit me being 64), I would probably walk.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 29 May 24 - 09:26 PM

> Bring Back White Dog-shit

That'd corner them the tanners' vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 May 24 - 04:21 PM

Following on from the huge success of the Tories’ ‘Bring Back National Service’ announcement, it’s rumoured that Rishi Sunak will shortly announce their next election promise - to Bring Back White Dog-shit… ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 May 24 - 08:00 AM

Absolutely nothing AFAICS. Probably posted to the wrong thread…

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Raggytash
Date: 29 May 24 - 07:50 AM

Pray tell what this has to do with either Brexit or UK Politics

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 May 24 - 03:48 AM

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/cso-ireland-has-imported-20000t-of-peat-in-the-past-year/ JOE OFFER This link is safe
https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/cso-ireland-has-imported-20000t-of-peat-in-the-past-year/
ireland imports tonnes of peat,after banning turf cutting

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 May 24 - 12:59 PM

I wonder what Fishy Rishi’s next act of desperation will be? ‘Bring Back Woolworth’s’? ‘Proper Juke-boxes in Pubs’?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 27 May 24 - 09:09 AM

Just realised: the National Service thing is a classic dead cat manoevre: when "the facts are overwhelmingly against you", nuke the conversation by throwing a dead cat on the dining room table. (Sadly, methinks the tale of the expression's Australian origins is another of de Pfeffel's straight-banana stories. Personally, I can't wait for this particular dead cat to become a reverse ferret.)

Meanwhile, I have a suspicion I know the real story that they were trying to divert attention from: Johnnie Mercer, the veterans minister, was shoulder-surfed while doing parliamentary business on a train, and the contents were leaked by the Times. Amongst other things:

His [Mercer's] memo states that he was upset that his attempts to let military veterans, who had previously been turned away from polling stations, use their ID cards to prove their identity when voting had been denied. Downing Street special advisers apparently blocked these proposals because it could also "open the floodgates" and allow students to also use their ID cards too.

This tale has only, to the best of my knowledge, propagated as far as The Register, and in particular not as far as the TV news. Dead cat managed; the fact that the Forces are implicated is a neat twist, as it shuts Mercer up too.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 26 May 24 - 08:04 PM

The carefully chosen date falls within the first week of the Scottish school holidays (N Ireland too, I think) when many of those entitled to vote will be away from home. Predict a surge in postal voting, and hopefully not too many votes wasted!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 26 May 24 - 02:14 PM

The claim is that a quick burst of National Service would liberate the yoof from the social bubbles they live in. I prescribe a quick burst of National Service for the entire Tory Party, for exactly the same reason.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 May 24 - 12:29 PM

More distraction by the Tories… Tories to bring back National Service.

A deliberate attempt to distract attention from the truth of their disastrous fourteen years of mis-rule, their greed and selfishness in peddling those BrexShit lies, their policy of Privatisation-by-Stealth of the NHS, their cutting the number of police officers by 20,000 then setting 10,000 back on and falsely claiming that we have ‘record numbers’ of police officers, the crashing of the economy by Truss and ‘Khazi’ Kwarteng resulting in people’s mortgage repayments going through the roof, the cost of living crisis, the exponential increase in the numbers of people relying on food banks to feed themselves and their families, their moronic ‘Stop The Boats’ three-word slogan, and the equally moronic Rwanda policy.

What a bunch of bell-ends they, and their supporters, truly are.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: DMcG
Date: 25 May 24 - 09:58 AM

Trade agreements with Europe may be one thing that Starmer is able to improve

There's a pretty good chance of that, and other EU-related things. Johnson, and to a much lesser extent May (due her weak Parliamentary position), forced all negotiations with the EU into ones based on mutual distrust. To say something nice about Sunak, he went some way towards thawing that, especially in the earlier stages of his premiership. I have hopes that Starmer can go further in that respect.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 May 24 - 04:59 AM

Trade agreements with Europe may be one thing that Starmer is able to improve.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 May 24 - 11:49 AM

”What are the chances of either of the main parties addressing the major elephant in the room - Brexit?!”

Absolutely zero, IMHO, but they should. The biggest disaster to befall this country since WW2, lie upon lie upon lie rammed down the electorate’s throats by the ‘Leave’ campaigners who wanted Brexit for no other reason than it suited their own greed and selfishness, and the results are clear to see.

It’s very rarely that I agree with a Tory about anything, but I’m in whole-hearted agreement with this piece from Lord Heseltine in his ‘European Movement’ email today…

”I am 91 years old. I have lived through many elections.

But I’m sorry to say that I think this will be the most dishonest general election of my life.

Why? Because it’s going to talk about all the problems, but avoid any of the real solutions which depend upon a closer relationship with Europe.

As I told Sky News on Wednesday, you can’t have a discussion about the country’s economy, or its defence, or immigration, without mentioning Brexit.

We have cut ourselves off from our principal market, our most important partners, and that is the underlying crisis that faces this country.

It’s terrifying to me that while the public opinion is moving and the younger generation is frustrated, the two major parties think they can go through 6 weeks of campaigning and not have anything to say about it.

At the European Movement, our job is to call out this hypocrisy. We’re here to make a nuisance, to upset the apple cart and say the (apparently) unsayable - that we would be better off back in Europe.

Over the next 6 weeks, and beyond, we shall be single-minded in this purpose.”

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 May 24 - 10:29 AM

I'm probably being a bit slow, Nigel, but I don't understand your point.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 24 May 24 - 09:48 AM

Many people, including the two main parties, were happy to ignore it before the idea came to prominence. Why should it be any different now?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 May 24 - 09:36 AM

What are the chances of either of the main parties addressing the major elephant in the room - Brexit?!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 May 24 - 07:41 AM

There will be no Rwanda flights before then and I suspect that is part of the reason he has called it early. When asked what he has done about his promise to keep small boats away he will reply that the Rwanda deportations were blocked so the boats are still coming. Part of his manifesto will be to continue on that tack even though it is blatantly obvious that it was just populist bollocks.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 May 24 - 03:19 AM

Very telling that Sunak seems to be intending to run the campaign on a ‘Presidential Election’ basis - asking this morning, “Who do you want to see in No. 10?”. Get ready for the usual character-assassination tactics from the Party of the Greedy and Selfish.

And never underestimate voter-stupidity and gullibility - plenty of evidence of those in the Brexit vote and the 2019 GE. More evidence on this morning’s TV vox-pops - a couple of wrinklies saying that the Tories have had some difficult issues to deal with over the past fourteen years, and it’s only fair to vote for them again and give them the chance to put their mistakes right! Jesus Wept!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 May 24 - 01:29 PM

So, an election has been called for the 4th of July in the UK, not before time many of us think.

The predictions over the past few months have been for an absolute landslide in favour of the Labour party a result, I for one, would welcome.

However I do not think we should be complacent in any way, I am sure the Conservative party still have a few nasty tricks up the collective sleeves, and I think the smaller parties could also do well given the seemingl massive distrust of the conservatives and the seemingly low personal rating of the Labour leader Kier Starmer.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 May 24 - 05:03 PM

Supporters of Vaughan Gething (First Minister for Wales) have accused other parties of racial bias for trying to bring him to account for his actions. (dodgy funding, and sacking a colleague for 'leaking')
No one in the opposition seems to have mentioned his race.
The only mention of it that I recall was in his acceptance speech as first minister: “We have of course, today voted also to ensure that Wales becomes the first nation anywhere in Europe to be led by a black person.
“It is a matter of pride for a modern Wales but also a daunting responsibility for me – and one that I do not take lightly."

So he plays that card himself, and then his colleagues claim that others are playing it!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 May 24 - 11:55 AM

Oh well, seeing as my message was auto corrected I may as well claim 400 :-)

Poopycock? I dread to think what could cause that condition...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 May 24 - 10:54 AM

Poppycock? I dread to think what could cause that condition...

399 - someone else can have it :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 May 24 - 03:16 AM

I can understand people objecting to his ULEZ rules, and objecting to his preference for cycling (war on drivers). Not everything is ad hominem much is against his actions quoite
poopycock

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 May 24 - 04:05 PM

The only point being made was that he won despite a long and vicious smear campaign.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 May 24 - 03:38 PM

”Not everything is ad hominem much is against his actions”

So you agree that, at least in part if not in entirety, attacks by Tory MPs, Tory supporters, the Tory press, and Tory HQ itself, are ad hominem?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 May 24 - 03:31 PM

Saying that the vile attacks started before the recent elections only underlines the point.
Or makes the point that the dislike of him is not just because he was standing for mayor.

I can understand people objecting to his ULEZ rules, and objecting to his preference for cycling (war on drivers). Not everything is ad hominem much is against his actions.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 May 24 - 03:25 PM

After a long absence, evidence here that Nigel is alive and well, and still honing his nit-picking skills (and, of course, nit-picking is easier than actually responding to the question).

{{sigh}}

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 May 24 - 03:16 PM

Nigel, attacks on Sadiq Khan by the Tories and their gutter press friends have been sustained and over a long period. SPBs comment was that he won despite this campaign of smear tactics is valid. Saying that the vile attacks started before the recent elections only underlines the point.