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BS: Compost Question
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: Stilly River Sage Date: 09 May 04 - 08:46 PM From the Dirt Doctor site:
The other compost thread has to do with animal waste, but I'll post this here on the more comprehensive discussion. If the compost is hot enough and/or old enough, the heat of the pile and the microorganisms in the pile take care of the seeds, the sedge nuts, and the animal waste contents. Compost isn't just a passive pile of stuff sitting down at the bottom of the yard. It need to be tended and treated as an important part of the whole garden process. If this is accomplished, you'll have a healthy and inexpensive way to improve the health of your gardens. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: emily rain Date: 09 May 04 - 03:44 PM dianavan, i hope you're still reading this thread! check out jerry jenkins' "humanure handbook" or his website (the full text of the book is available on line, for free) http://www.jenkinspublishing.com/humanure.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: AllisonA(Animaterra) Date: 09 May 04 - 06:23 AM Thanks, SRS- this is reminding me it's time to turn the pile! Allison |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: Stilly River Sage Date: 09 May 04 - 01:54 AM refresh |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: black walnut Date: 08 May 04 - 08:53 AM Yikes. I've burned and killed 2 little tomato plants with too much worm compost. I forgot how strong that stuff is. Here's another question for you wonderful compostknowitalls. How or when do you add compost to the ground when you have lots of groundcover? I have barren strawberry, creeping juniper, creeping thyme, foamflower...things of that nature. ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: Stilly River Sage Date: 07 May 04 - 09:55 AM No, jOhn, compost ISN'T rubbish, and furthermore, RUBBISH isn't always even rubbish! You've gotta start recycling more, young man! Stop tossing everything in existence onto this virtual ash heap. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Date: 06 May 04 - 10:52 PM compost is rubbish.john |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: black walnut Date: 06 May 04 - 09:12 AM Worms LOVE coffee grounds, but only from Second Cup, not Starbucks!!! (don't mind me....it's a political Canadian thing). However, one must balance the coffee out with things that are less acidic, or else they will crawl out of the bin at night, and who knows where they'll end up??? ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: open mike Date: 06 May 04 - 03:09 AM well, starbucks is good for something, then? as was said earlier...will those cafienated worms ever sleep then? might make them eat compost twice as fast and long! I think I will ask my local coffee shop if they will save the grounds for my cpompost! good idea! i have used some of the refuse from a local juice pressing business for the compost pile and brewery waste, too..that might get the worms to slow down, though! the hops make great soil amendment--it lightens and "fluffs" and soil that tends to compact. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: dianavan Date: 06 May 04 - 02:00 AM Did you know that Starbucks will give you their old coffee grounds? They work great in the compost and the worms like them, too. I remembered about the coffee grounds from when I was a child. My brother and I would "hunt" night crawlers (those very big worms that come out at night) with a flashlight and put them in a coffee can with some soil. We fed them coffee grounds every day. We used to sell them for "bait". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: open mike Date: 06 May 04 - 01:40 AM as for earth worm shit, i thought you were supposed to take that OUT of the compost pile, not put it IN!! I keep my compost in cylindrical wire cages, and i pile garden weeds, kitchen scraps, manure and cat litter box in it..certain types of litter are more bio-degradable than others. I find bones in my garden from previous residents here who buired them over 3 years ago...the chicken bones do not break down very well. When I sift the compost, the pits, stems, bones and clumps of stuff not broken down goes back in teh next pile to try again. I lift the "cage" up and turn the pile by putting the wire beside the pile and putting every thing back in again. (upside down) It helps to water the pile to keep it alive and encourage bio-degrader critters to come there and munch on stuff. The drip line that i water my garden beds with has a line that goes to an emitter in the compost pile. I have a pile at the end of almost every row. the weeds from each row go in to them. I found a rotating drum composter for my daughter and it is working great! There is an earthworm farm near here and I was thinking I would see if the school cafeteria could save food scraps for one day and take them there. They have a sign (the farm not the school) which says "green waste welcome" The school once had a great project--to raise two pigs on the food waste from the cafeteria. they auctioned or raffled off the pigs. a great way to reduce kitchen scraps to another form of compost (pig poop) and a useful food source (for pork eaters) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: open mike Date: 06 May 04 - 01:28 AM THE tracy schwarz!?! aren't we lucky?! Welcome Tracey, and I hope we get to see you post on a MUSIC thread here, too! Glad you found us and thanks for joining in... you see, we have a very wide range of interests here and most are quite organic! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: harpgirl Date: 05 May 04 - 09:35 PM I can't believe only pdq is impressed with Tracy Schwarz talking on our compost thread! Everyone else is acting cool...but not me... WAY COOL!!!! Hey Tracy...How's Ginny?? Oh and if you want to see MY next performance (or not my next one but one coming up) come to the Florida Folk Festival this year!!! anywhoooo... I've been trying different stuff to get my compost cooking. I built a six foot square thing on the south side of my fence property to throw stuff in including centipede grass, food, and live oak leaves which take a long time to break down and I've been trying bags of worm sh*t to get it to heat up. Anyone have any opinion about this? |
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Subject: Incineratin' toilet From: robomatic Date: 05 May 04 - 08:56 PM Aye, 'i remember that pryekt whar I worked on an inspiction of a warehouse in ye great white north. Thar wuz a gennlemin what got to fix the incineratin' toilets when they was overused and overtired. Yon toilets came in a tu-holer with a big tank o' propane in-bitwin. Reckun we wuz fast wi' gittin' up and gittin' up our skivvies when we flushed! The smell was unairthly, ungodly, and ivir to be remembered wi stories of ghoosts 'n ghoulies and I pray tare be no shitter beyond the grave! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: open mike Date: 05 May 04 - 08:50 PM I HAVE POSTED THIS BEFORE, though i do not recall what thread. My composting toilet is a www.biolet.com. It does not incinerate, but has a fan to circulate air, and a heater which helps to dry and sanitize the contents. The finished product looks much like potting soil and it gets dug in around fruit trees and flowers.. not veggies and especially not root crops! It does not actually take up as much space as a flush toilet, as there is no water tank or plumbing necessary. It does use electricity, though, and needs a vent pipe. There is a non-electric model that you turn by hand using a rotor handle--all clean, on the outside of the unit. This would work great on boats or in cabins. maybe even in an R.V.! Some time back there was actually an office in the state of Calif. called Appropriate Technology. This was when Jerry Brown (bless his heart) was governor. Sim Van Der Ryn was the official in charge of that office. He wrote a book on composting toilets, "privy" and other alternative ways to deal with shit. It is called the Toilet Papers. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1890132586/103-6445157-8384606?v=glance |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: Joybell Date: 05 May 04 - 08:47 PM We have our own version of a composting toilet that uses a very simple idea. Guests get to use the usual kind though. Composting toilets of various types are quite common in Australia even in cities. Some don't even take up any more space than the regular kind. Some use worms as part of the process. As the water shortage gets more and more acute we'll probably see more. Joy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: JohnInKansas Date: 05 May 04 - 07:26 PM Stilly - I haven't heard a recent update on it, but the usual advice on using newpaper in your compost was that the plain text was okay, but you should avoid putting the fancy colored stuff in. The black inks were mostly carbon pigment, but even fairly recently many of the colored inks contained stuff that could be toxic to the "critters" that work the compost for you. It wasn't that it was "poison," exactly, but the colored inks all had metallic components (Chromium, Cadmium, and the like) that would kill your red wigglers - and maybe some of the smaller worker bugs. There's probably more recent info now, as it's been quite a few years since I used newsprint in the fishin' worm brooder. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: Stilly River Sage Date: 05 May 04 - 06:19 PM Got a quick answer from my friend--he just got a new satellite broadband connection, so is online playing with the computer. I have an incinerating toilet, uses electricity to incinerate the waste. No water, no septic system, but you burn electricity for every flush cycle. http://www.incinolet.com/ My neighbors have Sunmar composting toilets, mostly, as there is a dealer out here. http://www.sun-mar.com/ I have an Envirolet composting toilet http://www.envirolet.com/ There is a very good book about composting toilets that I recommend. The Composting Toilet System Book, ISBN 0-9666783-0-3, about 20 bucks or there about, worth the money if you need information. There are lots of topics and issues, what to add, saw dust, peat moss, etc. The information provided by the manufacture is ok, but I would oversize the toilet to allow for those times when everyone visits. If you have specific questions I have an opinion. The short answer is that I will add another composting toilet in the house, probably two. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: dianavan Date: 05 May 04 - 06:17 PM Bobert - That would work on most plants but not for root crops. Please! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: Bobert Date: 05 May 04 - 05:41 PM Dianavan, Well gol danged. We ain't that far removed from a time when "night soil" was used on the veggie garden, Yup, twice a year the privy soil was removed and recycled... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: Stilly River Sage Date: 05 May 04 - 05:24 PM Newspaper is also pretty good in the compost. It isn't used there often because recyclers have "higher" uses for recycled newsprint. You want to be careful about the bird guano--it can carry some bad diseases. There is a known vector in disease transmission between birds and humans, particularly in respiratory and flu illness. I just heard a conversation about it on NPR yesterday--on a replay of a local KERA-FM program (the Glen Mitchell show) he had a talk with the author of the book Influenza. Anyway. Birds and bats also carry histoplasmosis. There are some very good composting toilets out there. Some of them dry the material and then incinerate it, so they have a little vent for the smoke. I have a friend who uses one out at their high-elevation home in the Davis Mountains of west Texas. I'll ask him for information and post it when he responds. Meanwhile, here is a google search about composting toilets. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: GUEST,Tracy Schwarz Date: 05 May 04 - 02:37 PM b.w.: My apologies. I was in a hurry to get back outside to turn my compost bin and down-to-earth compost heap. I compost mostly grass clippings and sawdust, two things we have in abundance here. I'm sure I could do better than that but hey, it works. Had some fantastic sweet corn that I gave my neighbors - got a rep now in this holler. Thanks to the NLCR fans - the more of that we hear the less we have to rewrite our history. Great thread, y'all. Tracy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: GUEST,Sooz (at work) Date: 05 May 04 - 07:57 AM It is possible to have a "composting toilet". They convert human waste into a dry, odourless material. Don't know how much they cost though, and they take up more space than the bog-stand loo. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: Dave Bryant Date: 05 May 04 - 07:19 AM Some friends of mine who live on a narrow-boat on the inland waterways, have a number of plant boxes on the roof of the boat in which they grow flowers and vegetables. For years they've used Canada Geese droppings - probably more as fertiliser than compost. It's easily found in large volumes nearly everywhere they moor, and some helpful fowls even deposit it onboard for them ! When it's dry, it's very crumbly and easy to handle, when it's wet, it's green and gooey and with a bit more water makes an excellent liquid feed. They get incredible results. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: dianavan Date: 04 May 04 - 08:41 PM After all this compost discussion, don't you think that there should be a better way of disposing of human waste? I mean, please, why treat it with chemicals and dump it in our water? Or worse yet, think of all those pampers, untreated, lying in our landfills. I really wish someone would come up with a disease-free method of returning human waste to the soil where it belongs. Whoever heard of shitting in the water? I guess this is considered thread creep. Forgive me. Happy composting. Its one of the things I do right here in the city, that makes me feel good about giving something back to the environment. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: Stilly River Sage Date: 04 May 04 - 07:00 PM You can get a good start by putting your lawn clippings from mowing in the composter. They are some of the easiest yard waste to break down. Run the hose over and spray it occasionally, and let that grass get hot--literally. Compost, when it's working, will give off steam on a cool night. Weeds pulled from the garden (include the dirt from the roots--there are lots of micro-organisms that help with the composting) and table scraps of the veggie variety will all compost nicely. Putting in grass regularly helps keep it hot. If you water it a couple of times a week (don't know how big it is, but you need to give it a good soak) and every week or so (this is a guess--I am not so consistent as to turn my compost that regularly) you will allow new material to get into the middle to cook, turn in some oxygen, etc. You don't need some fancy compost-starter (I've seen stuff for sale that is supposed to jump-start the compost). Just use the grass. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: Risky Business Date: 04 May 04 - 04:27 PM There are two main types of composting with many flavors within each type: 1) The vegetable matter kind, where you mix brown stuff and green stuff and it heats up, and you can do a search and find all sorts of good info on nitrogen and other necessities that go in. These are the kind that heat up, and you remix it and it heats up again, and depending on what you want and how much time you have, you re-mix it again and after its last cool down it's ready for spreading. 2) Worm composting. This is where you throw your vegetable organics in a pile, not mixing grass'n leaves because this will be food for worms. The worms are called red wrigglers, need to be purchased at least once because they are not the same as earthworms, although they look quite similar. The red wrigglers will eat your left over rinds, brown paper, vegetable-dye newspaper, etc. But you don't want the pile to heat up and cook! Red wrigglers will go dormant when the food runs low, and will snooze through a winter if they get enough insulation. Bones won't compost, fat typically doesn't compost. Peanut and nut shells don't compost. Most other organics and uncoated paper/ cardboard things do. Pay attention to what your neighbors will tolerate and make gravity your friend. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: SINSULL Date: 04 May 04 - 03:44 PM OK. I have an ugly black and shiny new composter sitting in my backyard. Where do I start? A layer of leaves a layer of garbage? I can't bear worms - nightmare material for me so that's out. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: Joybell Date: 03 May 04 - 11:25 PM You have to be careful with horse and cow poo. Some of the worm-killer drenches given to horses, cows and sheep are designed to last for a long time, and of course they are for killing worms. It isn't true that the are inactive once they come out of the animals. A study done here to look at the effect of horse poo in national parks showed that the inhabitants of leaf litter and soil were killed by it. The areas around the poo remained empty of invertibrates for at least several months. Joy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: dianavan Date: 03 May 04 - 08:50 PM Starfish are great fertilizer. Dig a hole, throw in the starfish, cover with seaweed and top it off with soil. Saves all the yummy clams, too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: Bobert Date: 03 May 04 - 08:18 PM I have a two chambered tumbler and love it. But I several composting bins in the woods also but they are harder work to turn, plus roots grow up into them making at even harder to turn... I'll tell ya the best thing for compost piles are fish. If you catch a few brim (blue gill) that you'd usually not be intersted in eating, a couple of them iin the compost bin will get it working real well... Sorry if I offended anyone by using live animals to promote composting but... Hey, a brim in in the hole you plant a tomatoe in will also work wonders... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: Stilly River Sage Date: 03 May 04 - 07:56 PM No, that's a generalization, not the obvious. But depending on how it's handled, it isn't bad. Zoo poo isn't just from elephants, it's all sorts of critters' poop pooled together. While cat and dog doo are by themselves rather caustic on the yard, or considered a biohazard in some contexts, in a hot pile of compost it's fine. Some of the best canteloupes I've ever eaten were the ones that grew in an old compost pile. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: TheBigPinkLad Date: 03 May 04 - 05:04 PM Just from my own observation (and I may be stating the bleeding obvoius here) but regarding poop: herbivore = good, carvivore = bad. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: pdq Date: 03 May 04 - 04:44 PM Seedling peaches are a waste of time. All good varieties are grafted to a rootstock. That is a possible solution: pick slips of varieties you like and graft to the seedling. Grafting is an art but I was successful the first time I tried. Requires common sense and patience. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: black walnut Date: 03 May 04 - 04:36 PM Oh boy. I don't think peach stones compost any better than sedimentary rocks. I'd say grow the trees though. Peaches: The Next Generation... ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: GUEST,jennifer Date: 03 May 04 - 04:17 PM I have peach seedlings growing in my compost. Wonder how hot you have to get to kill a peach stone. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: black walnut Date: 03 May 04 - 02:06 PM But I think if I did have it (yellow 'nut sedge) I could compost it. I try to separate out the bad junk but I think that it should kill it. Or give it to the superworms. ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: black walnut Date: 03 May 04 - 02:03 PM Found it. This is from the Ontario Canada Gov't weed site: Name: Yellow nut sedge, Cyperus esculentus L., Other Names: CYPES, souchet comestible, Chufa, Earth almond, Ground almond, Northern nut-grass, Nut-grass, Rushnut, Yellow nut-grass, amande de terre, souchet rampant. Family: Sedge Family (Cyperaceae) General Description: Perennial, reproducing by seed and by underground stems (rhizomes) and tubers. It is easily distinguished from all grasses by its triangular stem together with slender, tuber-bearing rhizomes. Several other species of nut sedge also occur in Ontario but this is the most troublesome one and the most likely to occur in cultivated land. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: Stilly River Sage Date: 03 May 04 - 12:17 PM "Nutgrass--the World's Worst Weed" can be found at http://www.ew.govt.nz/enviroinfo/pests/plants/nutgrass.htm. I would argue that Bermuda grass is an even worse weed than nutgrass. It strangles and crowds out other plants also. bw: good news on those worms. What a horrible fate awaited them--dying alone of starvation in the dark under the kitchen sink. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: black walnut Date: 03 May 04 - 11:43 AM Love all your ideas for how to build the perfect composting mouse trap. I would really like to get one of those roly poly compost drums. They look fun and wonderful and above all simple to turn. Just a bit out of the reach of my present budget, but one of these sunny days I will. ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: black walnut Date: 03 May 04 - 11:33 AM I was thinking that 'Nut-grass might personalize my garden. Here's something very embarrassing. I have totally ignored my vermiculture since last summer. Things got in the way. I felt guilty, thinking how I'd starved the poor red wigglers to death in a bath of acidic vermipoop. But I opened the lid a couple of days ago to get out some finished compost for the tomato plants, and lo and behold....a few live worms! I gave them an apple core and some coffee grounds and a layer of shredded paper, and in 2 days, the box is thriving with wigglers again. I'm totally amazed!!!! ~b.w. (who is usually not so cruel to animals). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: pdq Date: 03 May 04 - 10:21 AM Maybe Tracy Schwarz can tell us if good compost will help grow a "Merry Golden Tree"? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 03 May 04 - 09:11 AM Nutgrass is really a sedge, not a grass. It may be known as "nut sedge" where you are. Okay, I know I'm not the only New Lost City Ramblers fan around here, but it looks like I'm gonna have to be the one who says. "Wow! Lookeethar! Tracy Schwarz posted to this thread! The one and only time that anyone from the best damned folk band of the 60's has ever posted on The Mudcat and it's right here on this composting thread!" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: black walnut Date: 03 May 04 - 08:43 AM I've never even heard of nutgrass. ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: Stilly River Sage Date: 03 May 04 - 12:26 AM Bobert, maybe you should try torching the violets? Is there something you can rent at the local Home Depot that can be modified into a flame thrower? :) I feel the same about nutgrass, but if I didn't compost anything with nutgrass nuts, I'd never compost! I love robomatic's system--that sounds very similar to the one demonstrated that I tried to describe. I forgot about the grass clippings--a neighbor bags his grass about every third time he mows--and a couple of us are out there as happy as the grackles looking for bugs when the mower runs, waiting for the bags to turn up so we can grab them and throw them on the compost. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: Gypsy Date: 02 May 04 - 11:30 PM Man, i'll take your violet weeds over my mustard and horseradish........that stuff can tear your shoulder right out of the socket. Really recommend the compost tumbler, if you have limited space. For that matter, as creaky as i am getting, wouldn't mind one for myself. They're quick, and they WORK |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: Bobert Date: 02 May 04 - 10:18 PM I'm stickin with the premise of not not composetin' weeds that you dobn't want growin' in yer gardens... We have a problem with violets and them seeds is like the seeds from Hell. They will lay in a hot compose pile over winter and then, if used as compost, will produce hundreds of their offspring in my garen... Hey, I've been there... Get rid of 'em is the safest and best advice... One violet will throw out hundreds of seeds... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: GUEST Date: 02 May 04 - 10:04 PM Years ago I raised rabits for the table. I collected the pellets every month or so and put them in a barrel, then added an equal volume of water to make a tea. Let it sit for a week or so, then applied it the trenches where I planted snow peas. Then spread the bottom of the barrel residues in the garden. Both applications worked marvelously, and were odor free, at least in the practical sense. |
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Subject: cheap compost design From: robomatic Date: 02 May 04 - 03:45 PM If you're in a neighborhood where looks won't get you in trouble, a cheap, lightweight, and simple composter I use is to take about 10' length of 3' wire fencing, 16 gauge with 3" or 4" grid, line it with ground fabric held in place by duck tape. At one of the wire I bend a lot of the horizontal wires into little hooks, which can latch the other end of the wire into a 3' diameter cylinder. When lined with the fabric, you can fill it up with leaves and grass and what have you. I use a stick down the middle to open up a sort of 'chimney' and when I can obtain it, I use an old wooden pallet to allow air infiltration from the bottom. Together with the amount of air which can enter through the fabric sides, you've got a nice lightweight unit which allows air to get in, but is somewhat windproof. Usually within 24 hours I've got a column of warm water vapor exiting out the center. To turn it, you simply unlatch the wire ends, pull the whole thing off, put it down empty next to the pile, and pitch everything back into it. It's still work, but reduced to its simplest elements IMHO. If I really want to do a good cooking job I add fresh grass to the mixture, and in four hours after turning it's hot again. Works well in Alaska, so it should work anywhere. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Compost Question From: dianavan Date: 02 May 04 - 01:26 PM My brother lives in Seattle and gets manure from the zoo. Its sold as zoodoo. Elephant shit works wonders! |
