Singarounds - optimum number of people?

Subject: RE: Singarounds - optimum number of people?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 05:49 PM

Splitting, just to be clear, need not have a "stars vs plebs" basis AT ALL.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Singarounds - optimum number of people?
From: Stewart
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 05:34 PM

I'm not sure of the terminology. In the US we have open mics, song circles, music circles with both singers and instrumentalists (tunes and songs), jams, and "hoots" where most anything goes.

Just two are fine if the other person is compatible with your music. On the other hand, many more than two dozen can mean only one song for each in the evening. What I like best is the "jam" where instrumentalists if they are good can join in and back up the singer, and where all the singers can join in on the chorus if appropriate (but I would hate to have to do only chorus songs).

Going around a large circle, where everyone takes a turn (some are prepared but others not) can sometimes be a drag. The anarchy alternative works well with a good host who makes sure everyone who wants to sing or play gets a chance. It can be more interesting since one musician can take off from another's music. In open mics you need to have some procedure to set the order (order of sign up, random order, semi-random order (MC makes choices), etc.)

I would tend to go with Mary's (Guest-mg) suggestion, but then that's not considered democratic, and we have to be democratic don't we?

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: Singarounds - optimum number of people?
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 04:27 PM

I have attended one in the Washington DC area for 30 years now, and it has varied from 10-12 to 50 or so..(when we held it in a public building). Now that we seem to have settled into doing it in various private homes, it seems to be self-correcting at between 15-25, with a 'few' more where it is a central location with more space.

When it was larger...(and we were younger)...it often went from 8:30 to 1-2AM, but now 2-3 rounds, ending about 12 is the general rule. We do offer everyone a turn, knowing full well that some folks simply will not attend if they have to endure those who have not practiced, who sing from books or who cannot approximate an identifiable melody....it is still often quite nice with the majority NOT falling into the latter group. Most of us know each other and are regulars, but new faces show up all the time....some stay.

I have threatened for years to start a 2nd, invitational gathering run more like an old "Hootennanny" where there are few rules except social pressure, and those who are learning are expected to do more listening than singing................but the 'take turns' philosophy is pretty well set around here, and I know feelings would be hurt once the news got out.

We do ok with 15-25 as long as there is room for the people who attend

Subject: RE: Singarounds - optimum number of people?
From: Crane Driver
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 04:13 PM

I did once go to a local singaround where only two of us turned up - we did spend a couple of hours singing at one another, but that's undoubtedly too small. I have on a few occasions been to singarounds where it goes round once, but there's not enough time to go round everyone again. Several strategies have been used - just going as far as you can is one, as is having the organiser put his/her favourites on in the second round, but also I have seen everyone being given a raffle ticket, and the numbers chosen getting to sing, or songs in the second round being limited to 2 or 3 verses to get as many as possible in. All have their drawbacks, but most of us who frequent singaraounds are pretty flexible in accepting that just as not every performer will be top-class, so not every singaround will be perfect either.

What I don't like is when there are three singers left to go, and 10 or 12 minutes left, and the next in line hasn't thought of what to sing, needs to tune an instrument, and gives a long-winded introduction to the longest song they know, meaning that the last two singers get left out. That's just plain selfish.

Andrew

Subject: RE: Singarounds - optimum number of people?
From: Gulliver
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 04:10 PM

Similar to Nick's, I think. Two of the sessions I go to in Dublin have about six musicians each, plus about 10 from the "audience" will sing about 2 songs each. There'd be 30-50 punters in each pub altogether. This works out quite well except for occasions like football or rugby matches when the place gets a bit fuller and everybody wants to have a go (often at the same time)!

The third session often has over 25 people looking to sing and that's too much, not least because they're squashing each other to get close to the singing circle. We tried starting earlier, and cutting down on the number of tunes we play, but we can't turn people away (it's a pub).

I organised some sessions last year in a quiet place where mainly musicians turned up, averaging 6-8 with just a couple of listeners, but IMHO it was far too quiet and the craic and banter with the listeners was missing so I gave it up.

Subject: RE: Singarounds - optimum number of people?
From: GUEST,Wayne
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 03:54 PM

I've just read my own posting and it sounds like I'm carping about how much work it is, when it's busy. Not so! I love those evenings! The variety of music, the community feeling, the Cheshire cat smiles. It's truly wonderful!

Subject: RE: Singarounds - optimum number of people?
From: GUEST,Wayne
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 03:31 PM

We're lucky enough at my local singaround to be on quite a few people's "things to do on a Tuesday" list, as well as having a healthy core of enthusiastic regulars. Occasionally, many of our "irregular" visitors come down on the same night and we have upwards of thirty performers. To me (the emcee)it feels like mayhem but we've never yet had to send someone away without having sung at least two songs, and people seem to really enjoy these "chaotic" evenings. What we've done to accomodate everyone is start earlier and finish later.

On quieter evenings, we still keep it fairly ramshackle. The emphasis is always on having fun and it's great that people come down to listen as well as play so everyone has a fair hearing.

The idea of having a spillover room is interesting but I'm not too enthusiastic in the idea of splitting into stars & plebs. I love it when someone who doesn't sing much, gets up and gives it a bash, and I believe that they deserve as much, if not more, applause than the experienced performers. I've never forgotten that pit of the stomach feeling of singing in public for the first time!

Subject: RE: Singarounds - optimum number of people?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 02:12 PM

Is their an upper limit on the size of room that feels friendly and has good accoustics?

Subject: RE: Singarounds - optimum number of people?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 02:01 PM

Have you ever been to a singaround where the number of people present caused a problem? I have attended large and small and not experienced problems with numbers....some individuals might have if they felt they didn't sing enough or were expected to sing too many times as the case may be.

Subject: RE: Singarounds - optimum number of people?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 01:14 PM

We go to a small tunes/ songs session. Last time the person usually loosely in charge was not there and we went 'round the room'.
This was a mistake as the people sat near each other did similar things, e.g. 6 lots of dance tunes / 3 not-quite-folk-songs, etc.
It would have worked better if we'd mixed it up - 1 from this table, 9ne from another.

Subject: RE: Singarounds - optimum number of people?
From: gnomad
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 01:06 PM

I have been to the odd very small one, say 5 singers, harder work but decidedly rewarding.

I have also been to a few whoppers where once around took all afternoon and, despite a quite high standard of performance I didn't feel the energy level was the same. There just seemed less joy in participation, though of course that might have been down to the personalities of a different group of people.

My favourite would be around 10-14 people, which gives you something like a song per hour, depending on people's choice of song, and on how much comment goes between them. It allows for a decent spread of differing tastes and levels of ability, but is small enough to keep people attentive.

Splitting up into smaller groups can work if the premises suit, but I would be cautious around splitting on grounds of ability as so many people have a mismatch between ego and ability. I would hate to be the person doing the grading, but would also doubtless disagree with another judge's views. Self-grading would certainly be revelatory, but would not really work, IMO.

Subject: RE: Singarounds - optimum number of people?
From: Marje
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 01:03 PM

If the numbers are large, one strategy is to get all the singers to add their names to a list as they come in, and ask them to sing in that order. This means that those who come early are certain of a spot, whereas late arrivals may not be.

Some groups ask singers to do two songs for their spot. This means you get a bit more chance to warm up, and to choose two songs that will contrast or complement each other in some way. It may also mean that you don't get another go, but that's fine if there's plenty of variety.

I'm perfectly happy to get only one song or spot on a busy evening, provided that the general standard is good. But a quiet night with a small group can also be quite enjoyable, when you get to try out and compare songs in a more intimate setting - again, as long the standard is OK. If the singer from hell is there, it's even worse if you know you're going to have to listen to them again and again, doing the same songs they do every time.

Marje

Subject: RE: Singarounds - optimum number of people?
From: Nick
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 12:42 PM

Sorry to continue...

We start at 8.30 ish and finish about 11.30 - 12 and even on a full night will each manage at least 2 and probably 3 goes each.

Subject: RE: Singarounds - optimum number of people?
From: Nick
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 12:40 PM

Less a case off how many people I reckon than how long between involvements... I'll explain

We have a weekly singaround/instrumental thing in our pub and somewhere between 10 and 20 participants come each week. We go round in a circle and each person has a chance to have a turn. Some people always sing solo - some sing chorus songs - the fiddlers play and encourage accompaniment etc

It probably takes an hour - hour and a bit to go round and have your own turn but during that hour most of us will have played with others or sung a chorus or whatever. Seems to work ok and people keep coming back and it grows - we have people coming specially from something up to 50 miles away this week so it can't be too bad.

I think a lot also depends on how much people keep the momentum going. Some places I have been have a dozen people there and struggle to manage two songs each in 3 hours +. We like to keep the songs and tunes rolling along. I think it also works if you have a range of types of music (unless you are a specialist place that only wants a certain type of music) and that tends to keep things rolling along.

Subject: RE: Singarounds - optimum number of people?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 12:05 PM

7 good singers who can lead songs and let them take a disproportionate number of songs. If you lock it into an endless circle, and the quality is not good, you won't have people coming back except for those who like the theory of it morethan the sound. In which case it doesn'tmatter. mg

Subject: RE: Singarounds - optimum number of people?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 11:57 AM

Just one from a GREAT place I used to go-- they had more than one room and when things got past critical mass for their particular group and setting, they just split into two groups. Their split was beginners and intermediates to one room and advanced to another.

Splitting also worked at a weekend music houseparty I attended once-- at one point there were THREE groups going, and in a small enough house that you could hear from room to room, but it was no problem at all! Their split was oldtime in one room, and jugband in another; when the oldtime got too big that one split into one group inside and one in the back yard.

So the splits can be along whatever lines participants feel like trying.

~Susan

Subject: Singarounds - optimum number of people?
From: Scrump
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 11:52 AM

I haven't seen this point discussed, but apologies if it has.

In other threads discussing singarounds, people have said how great it is that everyone can have a go, regardless of how good / bad they are, and I agree.

The singarounds I've been to vary widely in the number of participants, ranging from a small number of people to quite a large number.

The fewer people, the more songs each participant gets to sing. I admit I've been to a few that were poorly attended, and each person there was able to do quite a few songs. That's fine, except that I found I hardly had time to relax between songs.

The other side of the coin is when there are so many people there, that each person may only get one or two songs all evening. That's OK too. I've never yet been to one where there were so many people that the people at the end of the room didn't get a chance to sing at all, but maybe it's happened somewhere?

What do people think is the 'optimum' number for a singaround, in terms of the number of songs per participant? I realise it depends on the time available, the length of each song, etc.

If there are a large number of attendees, instead of going around the room, maybe names should be drawn out of a hat. Do any singarounds do this?

Any comments folks?