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BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: SPB-Cooperator Date: 04 Oct 24 - 07:49 AM That too a substantial chunk out of my day comparing and contrasting Russell's and Marx's views o force and materiality. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: The Sandman Date: 04 Oct 24 - 03:54 AM “You may kill an artist or a thinker, but you cannot acquire his art or his thought. You may put a man to death because he loves his fellow-men, but you will not by so doing acquire the love which made his happiness. Force is impotent in such matters; it is only as regards material goods that it is effective. For this reason the men who believe in force are the men whose thoughts and desires are preoccupied with material goods.“ — Bertrand Russell, Political Ideals (1917), Ch. I: Political Ideals, p. 6 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: keberoxu Date: 01 Oct 24 - 03:54 PM The Economist had an opinion page that was a hoot, regarding the Conservative party and "swivel-eyed loons". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: The Sandman Date: 01 Oct 24 - 02:26 AM policies are more important than personalities, what is needed right now are some trade deals between the uk and europe. Truss is a back number from the past she is unimportant, a careerist who was not very bright and who is not even an MP anymore. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Backwoodsman Date: 30 Sep 24 - 11:21 AM Amen to that Dave, a thousand Amens. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 30 Sep 24 - 11:12 AM I have been having a discussion with a Tory friend (we have lots in common and don't fall out over politics) about the freebies and back handers to MPs. We both agree that it is ludicrous that it happens in any party. Whether any one is worse than another is debatable but the level of hypocrisy in the party that turned a blind eye to Johnson's (the biggest grifter of our time) undeclared shenanigans playing holier than thou with Starmer just about sums up their attitude to morality. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Backwoodsman Date: 30 Sep 24 - 10:50 AM @Raindog - I just watched the Truss Q&A session on YT, and you’re correct, she didn’t say the Tories would have won the GE if she was the PM, the Guardian’s report is correct. Black mark to the BBC for allowing that to be reported on ‘Politics Live At The Conference’ when it appears not to have been true. However, the Q&A session shows, in stark relief, what a truly appalling woman Truss is. Check it out, if you have the stomach for it… Liz Truss Q&A at the Tory Conference 30/9/24 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: The Sandman Date: 30 Sep 24 - 09:51 AM Vested interEst hs long been a problem as well as corruption.Ernest Marples who had a road haulage business, was made minister for transport and appointed Beeching who savaged the rail network |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Backwoodsman Date: 30 Sep 24 - 09:50 AM ”It also reports her as saying keeping Boris would have given them the best chance of winning.” Just goes to show what a twonk she is. Even by Tory standards she’s a nut-bag, three sheets to the wind. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Backwoodsman Date: 30 Sep 24 - 09:47 AM It was stated on BBC2’s ‘Politics Live’ that she said it, although there was no actual clip shown. If the BBC can’t be relied upon, wh can? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Rain Dog Date: 30 Sep 24 - 08:33 AM "In a question-and-answer session at the Tory conference this morning, Liz Truss claimed that the Tories would have won the GE if she had still been PM." Did she say that? The Guardian reports that she said she would have done better than Sunak. It also reports her as saying keeping Boris would have given them the best chance of winning. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Rain Dog Date: 30 Sep 24 - 08:25 AM With regards to gifts and donations to parties of both money & staff, I think we can all agree that the situation needs to be looked at more closely. It does not matter which party you support, the whole thing does not look great. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Backwoodsman Date: 30 Sep 24 - 08:19 AM In a question-and-answer session at the Tory conference this morning, Liz Truss claimed that the Tories would have won the GE if she had still been PM. Discuss… |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 30 Sep 24 - 08:06 AM Thanks Nigel |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 30 Sep 24 - 07:40 AM Dave: I was going to read the link, but I see that the Daily Mirror now only gives options to accept advertising cookies, or pay to read. But the 'London Economic' covers the Mirror's report and can be read without cookies: London Economic |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Backwoodsman Date: 30 Sep 24 - 07:30 AM As I said earlier, Dave, I strongly suspect that receiving gifts is common practice amongst politicians of every stamp. And trying to make an issue of Starmer and others accepting gifts leading up to the GE is an indication of how little the Tories actually have to offer. It’s reminiscent of the way they tried to make capital out of Liam Byrne’s note that ‘there’s no money left’ in 2010 - it was a long-running joke left by Chancellors ever since Reginald Maudling, a Tory, began the joke by leaving a similar kind of note for Jim Callaghan in 1964. It’s a sad commentary on our politics nowadays that more energy seems to be put into this kind of nonsense than into the real problems we are facing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 30 Sep 24 - 05:47 AM I see that they are all coming out of the woodwork now David Cameron and wife Samantha got freebie clothes paid for with Tory donor cash I think the con party will wish they had never opened that bucket of worms. Let he who is without sin... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Backwoodsman Date: 27 Sep 24 - 02:41 PM …or even Guinness! ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Backwoodsman Date: 27 Sep 24 - 12:35 PM ”I want to see one of them dirt taxis that they have in Ireland.” Only visible to old blokes with their bellies full o’Guiness… |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 27 Sep 24 - 11:05 AM I want to see one of them dirt taxis that they have in Ireland. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 27 Sep 24 - 08:51 AM > how wealth inequality arose Inequality has always been the case, since at least New Testament times; an even distribution of wealth is a state of unstable equilibrium. As the Good Lord said:
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 27 Sep 24 - 08:33 AM > Is there a difference between a 'deposit' and 'savings'? Hm: methinks "savings" are for the long term, and a "deposit" is more for day-to-day activities. Different interest rates, and variations of ease of access, also apply. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Rain Dog Date: 27 Sep 24 - 08:02 AM Actions sometimes have unintended consequences. From The Guardian earlier this week Fifty pubs a month shut in first half of year in England and Wales, figures show "Meanwhile, reports suggest the chancellor, Rachel Reeves, is considering raising alcohol duties in next month’s budget as she looks to plug what Labour says is a £22bn hole in the public finances. However, this will be damaging for wine and spirits producers, who say they are still dealing with the fallout of the largest single duty increase in 50 years last year, when there was a 20% rise on 85% of wines. On Friday, figures from HM Revenue and Customs showed there had been a £1.3bn drop in alcohol duty receipts in the 12 months up to the end of August, which the Wine and Spirit Trade Association attributes to a drop in sales caused by the higher duties. Miles Beale, the chief executive of the WSTA, said: “Last year’s damaging reforms to the alcohol excise duty system, including the largest single duty hike in almost 50 years, have hit businesses, consumers and the government purse. Prices have risen, sales are down, and so is duty income by over £1.3bn.” It is calling on the government to freeze duty on wine and spirits for at least two years to allow sales to recover." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: DaveRo Date: 27 Sep 24 - 05:57 AM It's worth reading Thomas Piketty's Capital in the Twenty-First Century (though it's hard going!) to understand how wealth inequality arose - he goes back to the 19th Century in Britain, France, and the US - and why it's increasing now. Most wealth now is held offshore and beyond the reach of national governments. His proposed solution - a globally agreed wealth tax - doesn't seem imminent! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: The Sandman Date: 27 Sep 24 - 05:05 AM While UK taxes are higher than in most other English-speaking developed economies (such as Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Ireland and the United States), they are considerably lower than in most other western European countries (average tax revenue amongst the EU14. Read more was 39.9% of GDP. QUOTE BELOW FROM SOCIALIST WORKER News Here are five facts that show why we should tax the rich far more: The total wealth of the richest 1,000 people in Britain in April 2016 was over £575 billion. It had risen by £29 billion in a year and has more than doubled since the start of the financial crisis in 2008. The richest 10 percent have nearly half the total wealth in Britain. Chief executives at Britain’s top firms on average rake in £5.3 million a year, 386 times more than workers paid the national living wage. Very wealthy people have had more wealth stuffed into their pockets by tax cuts—again and again. In 1973, the top rate of income tax, paid by the very rich, was 75 percent. Labour’s right wing chancellor Denis Healey raised it to 83 percent in 1974. For nine years of Margaret Thatcher’s Tory government the top rate was 60 percent. Today it is 45 percent. A third of Britain is owned by 1,200 families descended from the aristocracy. In Scotland 432 people own more than half of all private rural land |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: DaveRo Date: 27 Sep 24 - 04:45 AM The Sandman wrote: I am not going to engage in semantics with you, over words like poor and not so poor...Who gets the payment, and who doesn't, is important. It was you who suggested upthread that it should be means tested, without knowing that was what is being proposed. It's more complicated than simple headlines suggest. ...If starmer was an astute politician he would compromise on this...I agree. Backwoodsman wrote: The government have made a big mistake, and the uproar it has caused is distracting the attention of the public away from the other, good, and important things they are doing.I agree 100%. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Backwoodsman Date: 27 Sep 24 - 04:26 AM I’m one of those who has, in the past, benefitted from the Winter Fuel Allowance, despite the fact that I am well-enough off to neither need nor want it. I would have preferred it if the WFA had been properly means-tested right from its inception, and I would prefer it even more if this government had decided to properly means-test in now. The government have made a big mistake, and the uproar it has caused is distracting the attention of the public away from the other, good, and important things they are doing. I think Starmer will rue the day… |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: The Sandman Date: 27 Sep 24 - 04:21 AM imo, it is still not acceptable .the majority of pensioners, who are not well off ,will be affected by this. I am not going to engage in semantics with you, over words like poor and not so poor. If starmer was an astute politician he would compromise on this, if he does not, this could possibly lose him the next election |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Backwoodsman Date: 27 Sep 24 - 04:17 AM Please note the thread title - ‘Brexit and other UK political topics’. The Republic of Ireland is not a part of the UK, and discussions about its tax regime have no place on this, our one and only permitted UK politics thread. If someone wants to discuss RoI taxation, please start a new thread. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: DaveRo Date: 27 Sep 24 - 04:03 AM But not all those millions are poor. Changes to Winter Fuel Payment |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: The Sandman Date: 27 Sep 24 - 03:56 AM https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gv632d05lo[from the BBC ] millions of pensioners will lose their fuel allowance |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: DaveRo Date: 27 Sep 24 - 03:46 AM Is there a difference between a 'deposit' and 'savings'? In the UK interest on savings is (mostly) taxed at your marginal income tax rate so poorer people pay less or none at all on small amounts of savings. Is DIRT at a fixed rate designed to discourage all savings? (UK Winter fuel payments are not being eliminated, btw. Recipients of pension credit will continue to get it, so it is being means-tested. The losers are not the poorest but the ones slightly better off, or who don't apply for benefits - which they should.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: The Sandman Date: 27 Sep 24 - 03:15 AM how unknowledgeable some people are . Deposit Interest Retention Tax (DIRT). DIRT affects the rich more than the poor |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: The Sandman Date: 27 Sep 24 - 03:09 AM you live in ireland do not know what dirt taxis? If you save an amount of money (a deposit), you may get paid an annual rate of interest on it by your bank or financial service provider. The interest you get is taxable. The tax is called Deposit Interest Retention Tax (DIRT). DIRT is charged at 33% on all interest payments. ole was a typo for old |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Raggytash Date: 26 Sep 24 - 07:10 PM "increase dirt taxor find some other way [that does not cause hardship to ole [people]of raising tax or is he a tory dressed up as labour" Could someone please explain to me just what "dirt taxor" means? or even what "ole" means? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Backwoodsman Date: 26 Sep 24 - 02:44 PM ‘Dirt tax’? WTF? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: The Sandman Date: 26 Sep 24 - 02:13 PM i did not mention taxing fuel i suggested increasing motor tax, well according to Starmer he has to raise money, to quote mandy rice davies ....he would say that wouldnt he. if he was clever he would compromise and reduce the winter fuel allowance, instead of getting rid of it, and possibly increase dirt taxor find some other way [that does not cause hardship to ole [people]of raising tax or is he a tory dressed up as labour |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Raggytash Date: 26 Sep 24 - 01:20 PM Well, lets just clarify things a little you mention alcohol and cigarettes, cigarettes where not mentioned in your earlier post. I stated that fuel and alcohol are already taxed highly, some of the highest rates in Europe. Whilst I agree with you that the curtailment of the Winter Fuel Allowance is not a good move I do think that reinstating it by raising taxes on items that are already heavily taxed is tantamount to stupidity. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: The Sandman Date: 26 Sep 24 - 11:41 AM Raggytash,Alcohol and cigarette smoking, puts pressure on the NHS, So it is clever to try and discourage it, it is not clever to have old people being taken to hospital with hypothermia. I voted for the labour party but i did not vote for policies such as cutting winter fuel allowance. however if he is clever he will change his mind and reduce the allowance instead of totally getting rid of it, if he does not the tories will win the next election |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 26 Sep 24 - 10:59 AM I remember having the conversation with my Dad, a non driver and big drinker at the time while I had to drive for my job and so didn't drink much. Of course it hinged round which should be taxed more and got quite heated. Glad to say we never fell out about it :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Raggytash Date: 26 Sep 24 - 07:41 AM "and find remaining money by increasing motor taxation, alcohol taxation etc" Really clever, increase taxation on two of the most heavily taxed consumer items in the country. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 26 Sep 24 - 07:00 AM It's a done deal, Dick. It will not change now but something may appear in the future that they will tell us is out of the goodness of their hearts What they really need to so is reclaim some of the money that the last group of conmen gave away to their mates and families. £4 billion pounds paid out for useless PPE equipment |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: The Sandman Date: 26 Sep 24 - 03:48 AM Starmer cutting fuel allowance is imo a mistake, what he should do now, is cut fuel allowAnce by half, not cut it completely, and find remaining money by increasing motor taxation, alcohol taxation etc . cutting fuel allowance is going to affect the poorest pensioners, alternatively he could introduce means testing, of course the government will say the adminstration costs are too much, the labour party is implementing Conservative policies. Starmer should be prioritising trade deals with Europe to boost the uk economy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Backwoodsman Date: 24 Sep 24 - 01:27 PM ”’ferret-faced Shadow Leader of the Opposition' should read 'ferret-faced Shadow Leader of the House of Commons;” You’re correct, of course, SPB, my error. But at least we agree he’s ferret-faced. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: The Sandman Date: 24 Sep 24 - 01:14 PM The Return of the sausages.The prime minster who not only stole old age pensioners fuel allowance, but provided us with that wonderful faux pas |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: SPB-Cooperator Date: 24 Sep 24 - 12:12 PM 'ferret-faced Shadow Leader of the Opposition' should read 'ferret-faced Shadow Leader of the House of Commons; |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Backwoodsman Date: 22 Sep 24 - 03:44 PM I’m pretty sure that all influential MPs receive gifts, and I have no real problem with that as long as they are declared through the Members’ Register of Interests procedure (which the gifts in question appear to have been). Unfortunately, the Tories have chosen to weaponise gifts received by Labour Cabinet Ministers, presumably in an attempt to undermine the LP Conference and draw attention away from positive things the government are trying to do. It should come as no surprise, after all the Tories demonstrated that they are The Party of Dirty Tricks with their character-assassination job on Corbyn in 2019. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 22 Sep 24 - 03:16 PM Just read that the sum total of donations to Starmer is £12500 less than hust the cost of Bozos flat redecoration. I don't think either is right - just putting it in perspective |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Backwoodsman Date: 22 Sep 24 - 10:22 AM Very amusing this morning to hear the ferret-faced Shadow Leader of the Opposition, Chris Philp, complaining about the PM and Deputy PM accepting gifts from Labour donors of a few suits, posh spectacles, and the loan of an apartment in New York for a few nights, declaring with outraged, righteous indignation that “It’s wrong!”. Funny, I don’t recall him exhibiting righteous indignation and declaring “It’s Wrong” over his own party spaffing billions on the contracts they gave their own members, donors, and pub landlords for PPE that never materialised or proved to be useless during the Covid pandemic, or filling the House of Lords with Russian oligarchs and friends of Putin. Those Tory has-beens have no shame, nor any sense of irony. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 09 Sep 24 - 06:43 AM Just seen this quoted in RISKS Digest 34.44*:
MaJoC's €0.02: Once it affects US tourists, Something Might Be Done. But then again, there's now an entire industry behind the border checks, so that methinks is that. * Apologies for the nonstandard location. The official archive site, with links to individual sub-articles, has database and certificate problems. |
