BS: President Bernie Sanders?

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: olddude
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 12:50 PM

Yup I agree ake. There is always a greed factor

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: GUEST,#
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 12:33 PM

"My honest opinion is that the destabilisation of most of the Middle East and North Africa was intentional."

Bingo. Started by people with oil or drug interests, paid for by taxes, bled for and died for by humans, then rewritten before the history books are printed.

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 12:13 PM

Didn't know you were a "tits" man # :0)

You're the first guy I would be looking for...and not just to see your collection!!

Anyway, back to reality. Joe I can't really understand your point, the 9/11 people were almost all Saudi Arabian, and the Saudis are our bestest pals?

Gaddafi ruled a viable country, which is now a wasteland, a breeding ground for terrorists. His removal arguably paved the way for ISIS to take territory, take his arms, sold to him by US/UK/France and create the biggest threat to world peace in decades.

My honest opinion is that the destabilisation of most of the Middle East and North Africa was intentional.

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: GUEST,#
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 09:00 AM

"I have always had a hankering to visit America"

Ake, if you get to the US and take a side trip to eastern Canada you'll have a place to stay here. I would be just a bit pissed if you didn't :-) There's a few stone constructions I think you might like to see and I'll make sure you have a decent single malt Scotch to sip on. Something to keep in mind. Also, I'll show you my collection of Sarah Palin pin-ups.

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: gillymor
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 08:52 AM

Gaddafi was quite a charming fellow. Click here. A bullet in the head was much too good for him.

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 07:25 AM

http://www.refinery29.com/2015/12/99193/western-illinois-university-2016-election-prediction

Not that I intend to vote for him, but he at least is an honest, decent person.

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 04:37 AM

Ake, Gaddafi was the first real taste of terrorism that the U.S. experienced. Of all the rulers of all the nations in the world, Gaddafi was the one the U.S. despised most.

Whether we were justified in thinking that or now, I think most Americans felt almost as much relief at the death of Gaddafi (20 Oct 2011), as they felt over the death of Osama bin Laden (2 May 2011). It felt like we had eliminated our two main enemies without having to go to war.

The Benghazi attack took place on the evening of September 11, 2012. We didn't feel so sure of ourselves after that.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Dec 15 - 11:14 PM

"Gaddafi had become accepted by the West, fulfilled all the conditions they demanded concerning weapons, had trade sanctions lifted, ruled a country in which the people were better served in education and health than most in the Middle East and North Africa. "

I suppose he 'made the trains run on time' also......

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Dec 15 - 07:02 PM

Greg, I have always had a hankering to visit America, one of my friends has dual citizenship...I think that means she can vote in your elections
There is something good and straight about all the Americans I have met personally.....including those on these pages, I admire their uncomplicated way of thinking, it will serve them well in the future...even you Greg......Don't get to be like us.:0(

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Dec 15 - 06:54 PM

Gaddafi had become accepted by the West, fulfilled all the conditions they demanded concerning weapons, had trade sanctions lifted, ruled a country in which the people were better served in education and health than most in the Middle East and North Africa. while we praised and supported regimes like Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states.

When an armed insurgency began we supported it with bombs and arms, telling our people it was for democracy.....just like we did in Iraq.
When Gaddafi's troops were incinerated and he himself brutally murdered by people who turned out to be Islamic Jihadists and brigands we washed our hands and walked away.
Mrs Clinton was seen by millions making a joke of Gaddafi's killing in a TV programme, after being the prime mover in US involvement.

According to you this was "justice" for his years of cruelty.....well if the US or the UK were faced by a serious armed insurgency financed and armed by Russia or China....we would be forced to be just as cruel.

To defeat ISIS we will have to be much more cruel than Gaddafi, Saddam, and Assad put together.

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Dec 15 - 04:25 PM

"how do you explain Mrs Clintons disgraceful and misplaced triumphalism after the murder of Gaddafi?."

I don't... because she didn't.

I saw the news conferences. YOU have taken an 'announcement' and blown it up to suit YOUR ideas.

At the time, almost everyone saw the demise of Gaddafi as justice for his years of cruelty. You can't blame her for Libyans wanting him and his sons gone.

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Dec 15 - 04:22 PM

Ake lives in Britain, Dan.

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Dec 15 - 02:19 PM

Can't say I've paid too much attention #.....I only have a speculative interest these days   :0)

First heard Mrs Palin speak at a Republican convention, wasn't even looking at the telly at the time, but I stopped to listen and thought she had that something which can motivate people. Get the blood running.
The Republicans are dead scared of her, or people like her, just like the Dems are scared of socialists.

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: olddude
Date: 09 Dec 15 - 01:16 PM

Yeah but ake can vote his heart, that is what is great about america. We have a choice unlike a
lot of the world

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Dec 15 - 01:02 PM

Do over:

Good point, frogprince but if she were capable of leading us anywhere it would be, without doubt, down the road to unfettered capitalism and the ensuing environmental devastation it would bring. "Drill, baby, drill."

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Dec 15 - 12:44 PM

Good point Frogprince but if she were capable of leading us anywhere it without doubt be down the road to unfettered capitalism and the ensuing environmental devastation it would bring. "Drill, baby, drill."

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Dec 15 - 12:28 PM

"irrational"??????

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Dec 15 - 12:25 PM

most of us here cannot even imagine why an avowed socialist would want to see us go there.

Easy !

1. because or his irrational hatred of Hillary Clinton.

2. because of his tenuous grasp of U.S. party politics & what those parties stand for.

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: frogprince
Date: 09 Dec 15 - 11:58 AM

Ake: If...if...the United States was to unite wholeheartedly behind Sarah Palin...either you have no idea whatever of where she would be leading us, or most of us here cannot even imagine why an avowed socialist would want to see us go there. Anyhow, she has repeatedly shown that she doesn't have enough coherent intellect to lead anyone on a clear path to anywhere.

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Dec 15 - 11:45 AM

" but you won't have a clue what I'm talking about."

You don't seem to either.

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: GUEST,#
Date: 09 Dec 15 - 11:41 AM

Ake, if Palin didn't have nice tits no one would pay any attention to her at all.

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Dec 15 - 11:38 AM

Sarah Palin is far from the status quo....... but you won't have a clue what I'm talking about. You have to look beyond party politics.

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Dec 15 - 06:44 AM

"Educated people who REALLY want change, should not be voting for the status quo."
According to yourself they should be voting for Sarah Palin.

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Dec 15 - 04:17 AM

Hmmm, not much information there Bill and how do you explain Mrs Clintons disgraceful and misplaced triumphalism after the murder of Gaddafi?.

It seems to me that some people are more interested in political electability than in any real change in how US politics is run.

Reminds me of the current situation within the UK Labour Party.

They used to call it "divide and rule"
If Mr Sanders is sincere, it will take a decade of patient work and education to give people an understandable alternative to corporate capitalism.
He is in exactly the same position as Mr Corbyn in the UK.

Educated people who REALLY want change, should not be voting for the status quo.

Dan, I understand what you are saying and wish you well.

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: olddude
Date: 08 Dec 15 - 10:24 PM

I sadly still make harsh statements but trying to be better but ake please keep an open mind and vote your heart. There are lots of people on both sides that have an agenda and it has little to do with truth

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Dec 15 - 10:06 PM

"The "Arab Spring" was obviously a sham. As far as I can see, US complicity in the overthrow and subsequent murder of Gaddafi was engineered to show Mrs Clinton as a woman of action as opposed to mr Obama who was rightly reluctant to get involved."

Ake... you know from reading my posts for years now that I am not one to make harsh statements rashly... but that is BS.

What is obvious about how far you can see is: not very far. That is beyond speculation and verging on character assassination.... "sham"... "engineered by"..... NONSENSE! It ranks up there with the claims that 9/11 was a CIA plot.

....lordy...

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Dec 15 - 01:55 PM

Gillymor sez: Mrs. Clinton displays a grasp of the issues that no other candidate possesses, Republican or Democrat, and in those bogus Benghazi hearings she seemed like the only adult in the room.

I agree completely.

---

Donuel sez: If you liked FDR-You'll love Bernie.

I liked FDR a lot. And I also have a high opinion of Bernie Sanders.

So whatever happens, I think we'll have an excellent Democratic candidate for President in 2016. The Republicans will most likely nominate a dunce supported by 20 percent of the electorate, so I don't see how the Republicans can win the presidency in 2016.

Congress? Now that's another matter, but I'm still hoping for a Democratic majority in both houses, and I think my hopes are reasonable.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Dec 15 - 01:13 PM

and 50% (at least) of those who think they know who FDR was and what he did have it wrong.

Among Republiccans, the figure is 95%

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: GUEST,#
Date: 08 Dec 15 - 12:32 PM

I doubt more than 20% of your countrymen/women would know who FDR was or what he did.

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Dec 15 - 12:26 PM

Like my bumper sticker says

If you liked FDR-You'll love Bernie.

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Dec 15 - 12:18 PM

We had two very obvious precedents Bill. Iraq and Egypt
The "Arab Spring" was obviously a sham. As far as I can see, US complicity in the overthrow and subsequent murder of Gaddafi was engineered to show Mrs Clinton as a woman of action as opposed to mr Obama who was rightly reluctant to get involved.

Mr Obama's standing has never been regained since that failed operation. It was a no lose situation for Clinton. If the gamble turned out well, she took the credit, if it went arse up(as it did) the buck stops with the President.

Our prime mover Mr Hague has been swiftly moved to the House of Lords.
Out of sight, out of mind.   He would never survive an election campaign.

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Dec 15 - 11:28 AM

Nobody is **ignoring** anything... it's just that some folks don't agree with your interpretation(s) of exactly how 'disastrous' it was and the notion that all blame for problems falls on whoever was technically in charge!

Face it, Ake... Libya and several other trouble spots around the world are no-win situations! We get damned if we don't DO something... and damned twice if we try. When factions in a country are determined to hate and kill and pick their targets by exacerbating their own cultural/religious bias, there WILL be nasty events. The job of President & Sec. of State is to try to navigate those waters. We cannot just ignore the rest of the world, but parts of the world make it very dangerous to even try to help.

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Dec 15 - 08:59 AM

How can anyone ignore the disaster which was Libya?

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Dec 15 - 08:47 AM

While my politics align more closely with Sanders than any other of the available candidates I see HC as the best option with Martin O'Malley a not so close second (based only on his lack of electability). Mrs. Clinton displays a grasp of the issues that no other candidate possesses, Republican or Democrat, and in those bogus Benghazi hearings she seemed like the only adult in the room.

I agree with Bill that a Sanders administration would bring gridlock to new heights (or depths) and we'd be subjected to Freedom Forum induced impeachment votes at regular intervals on the grounds that he is a socialist and therefore "Unamerican". No Democratic president will be able to accomplish much if the makeup of congress doesn't shift but a Republican president would be a disaster for the present and future generations of the U.S. If the GOP were in a position to pick SCOTUS nominees and sign into law some of the anti-human legislation that comes from this congress you can just about wave goodbye to most of the social programs that alleviate misery and bring at least a modicum of fairness to this society. Anyone using that tired old argument that Republicans and Democrats are all the same has sawdust where their brain was meant to be.

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: GUEST,Olddude
Date: 08 Dec 15 - 07:56 AM

Pm me Joe

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Dec 15 - 06:42 AM

I really don't want it to matter to us, but it does. Can you PLEASE deliver us a president who won't keep getting us into wars and who doesn't rub everyone in the Middle East (except Israel) up the wrong way? Nice try with Obama but could do better. It would also be very nice if he or she showed a bit of "morl curge" (to quote Dubya) in standing up to the corporations, the pro-Israel lobby and the NRA, to show them once and for all that democracy, not unelected pressure groups, is in charge.

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Dec 15 - 04:27 AM

I'm VERY surprised Joe, how on earth can you say she did a good job in Mr Obama's administration?
What did she achieve, other than push Mr Obama into one of the worst Foreign Affairs decision in recent history.....Libya. Arguably as bad as Bush's decision to attack Iraq.

If you cant stand the sentiments of "Onward Christian Soldiers".....how can you vote for Mrs Clinton?

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Dec 15 - 01:12 AM

How do you know Hillary, Dan?

Seems to me that every time she opens her mouth, that woman makes sense. Trouble is, the Tea Party folks have such destructive tactics, that I wonder if anybody can get anything accomplished while they're around.

And at least in my area, the Tea Party people don't seem to be losing any steam.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: GUEST,Olddude
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 10:45 PM

Yup all the great antique stuff is for the big wigs upstairs or in restricted spaces

Downstairs you get Chinese copies from walmart s :)

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: GUEST,#
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 09:48 PM

"Did not know you liked her Joe, well if elected I bet I can get you an invite to the white house."

Old friend of mine (he died a while back) was invited to the White House to perform. His wife checked one of the ashtrays that were around in the smoking areas of the time. They were made in Hong Kong.

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: GUEST,Olddude
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 09:39 PM

I got ya covered ebbie

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 09:01 PM

Hey, Dan- I like her too! :)

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: GUEST,Olddude
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 08:55 PM

Did not know you liked her Joe, well if elected I bet I can get you an invite to the white house.

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 08:39 PM

Thank you, Joe... that's as good a summary as I've seen.

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 08:25 PM

I've been a Hillary man for a long, long time. I think it's her time, and I hope she'll be elected President. I'm sure she'll do a good job.

But it's true that Hillary has a lot of baggage, mostly not of her own making. The demagogues have been very adept out of making issues out of nonissues, and it has made her appear untrustworthy to many Americans. Even though I think she'll probably win the election easily, that lack of trust will haunt her for her entire term of office. I don't know how she can fix that, and it's just not fair. She did a good job as Secretary of State, and I think that's proof she'd be an excellent President.

But I have to admit I like Bernie a lot. To me, he represents the best that America should be - but I'm still not convinced he would be a practical choice. I think the Tea Party would be on him like sharks in a feeding frenzy.

So, I'll stick with Hillary. She's a good, smart woman - and she's tough.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 08:20 PM

and.."This is all published information freely available."
It is published by conspiracy theorists... 'information' is not exactly the word I'd use for incessantly repeated rumors.

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 08:17 PM

"...her unfavorable rating is so high that if she is elected President many Americans, including Democrats, will distrust and resist her."

Aww.. Ebbie- "rating"?? I seem to remember that Truman had a high negative rating....until he did some things.


90% of the change from her mostly positive ratings a couple or years ago to these unfavorable ones now are a direct result of Republicans yelling "Benghazi" and "Emails" on every program available. It makes very little difference how many times accusations & insinuations are answered and explained... what many people 'hear' are the accusations-- studying the answers takes time and *gasp*.. thinking.
The #%$@*&&^%$ Republicans have NO one competent to offer, so they throw mud- just as they did at Obama from Day 1! (No...sorry... they throw mud and Gerrymander districts and lie about changing the voting laws.)

Right now, I can't imagine the country as a whole electing Trump or Carson...or...etc., so all best guesses are that either Clinton or Sanders will win. Personally, I can live with voting for either one. If I could push a magic button, there are various others I'd rather see... but they are not running- (probably because Hillary was assumed to be a shoe-in until recently). Who? Oh, I'd vote for Barney Frank in a moment... or Al Franken.. or Ed Markey.. or Sherrod Brown...or...yes.... Joe Biden! And if you want women, I'd trust and have confidence in Diane Feinstein or Tammy Baldwin (though she needs more seasoning & experience)..or even Maria Cantwell of Washington State..though she has no profile right now.... and those are just Senators! (Heck.. I'd rather have Claire McCaskill of Missouri than anyone the Republicans are offering...)

I am just bewildered at this political season. I have watched politics since Eisenhower/Stevenson, and I never thought I'd see such irrelevant CRAP being used as reasoning for voting.

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: GUEST,Olddude
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 08:06 PM

I respect your opinion blue, but I don't think you know her. She and Bill are friends and I know her very well . Don't believe all you read. Yes she has faults like everyone, but you have no idea how much heart they both have.

So far I only see one person with the experience and that is her. But that's what is great about america, the right to choose in an election and vote as you see fit.

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: GUEST,Blue
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 07:37 PM

Hillary has too many unsolved murders linked to her and Bill...look it up google "Clinton Murders".
Also HIllary is too involved in Benghazi...that is, she was using the office of sec of state to sell arms to the enemy during wartime...yes, it is available knowledge, we know the names of the dealers, receivers, the ships they were shipped on thru Turkey to arm Al Quaeda and Isis...we even have the emails documenting the process...
No, just because she is a woman does not forgive treason in color of office.
If Hillary is elected, look for deeper corporate fascism to expand world wide.
Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide!

And paid for by more debt.

Dont believe me, look it up for yourself. This is all published information freely available.

Subject: RE: BS: President Bernie Sanders?
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 07:33 PM

The old saw about "no matter who you vote for the govt always gets in" seems particularly apt when applied to US politics.