Origin: Cosher Bailey

Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: Deckman
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 11:30 PM

To "Guest Train Guard" ... Roy Guest, from England, came to Seattle, Washington (USA) in 1958-59. We became good friends and traded many songs. He taught me the version you just printed. I've always had great fun with it! Thanks for posting it and cheers from the NorthWest corner of America! Bob(deckman)Nelson

Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: Gareth
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 03:13 PM

Mrr - Thats Hob y Deri Dando - a related shanty - see the threads in the heading.

Gareth

Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: GUEST,Mrr (thought I had a cookie here)
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 01:55 PM

I know a CRUSHER Bailey, is it the same? Crusher Bailey had a sister(harry diddy dumby) Laughed likke blazes when you kissed her (let us sing again boys), saw her coming to the water (Jane sweet Jane), (something I can/t remember) Jane Jane come to the glen, who'll sing praise of shellicock hoyt, jane jane comne to the glen, who'll sing praise of shellycock hoyt) - or something...

Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: GUEST,Train Guard
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 01:24 PM

The connection with the Taff Vale Railway has already been mentioned.

A few verses.

Cosher Bailey had an engine,
And it always needed mending,
It did nineteen miles an hour,
On the night run up from Gower....

(Did you ever see,
Did you ever see,
Did you ever see,
Such a funny thing before...?)

Cosher Bailey's brother Norwich,
He liked his oatmeal porridge,
And he went to Cardiff College,
For to get a bit of knowledge...

Cosher Bailey went to Oxford,
To attend his matriculation,
But he met a pretty barmaid,
And he never left the station...

Cosher Bailey went and died,
So they put him in his coffin,
Till they heard someone knocking,
Cosher Bailey...only joking!

Well, the devil wouldn't have him,
And it really was no wonder,
So he sent him back to earth,
To make a hell upon the Rhonnda

Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: Gareth
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 12:32 PM

This fine cultural Ballad has been the subject of discussion in Folk info - Click 'Ere as we say in the Valleys for the thread.

Gareth

Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 11:51 AM

Oscar Brand, in "Bawdy Songs and Backroom Ballads," lists the song as "Crusher Bailey." His derivation agrees with what is said above.

Subject: So who wrote it?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 10:53 AM

I read somewhere in a book on railways/locos that CB was chief engineer for one of the old railway companies; he built a tunnel, and gave himself the honour of driving the first train through it ... or at least as far as it would go before the chimney hit the roof. No idea what book it was (it might be one of mine, but there's a lot to look through), or even if the story was true and not just a railway myth.

Steve

Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: Gareth
Date: 24 Sep 02 - 07:26 PM

Not a bad condensed history Ced2 - But remember the Crawshay's of Merthyr were not noted for thier love of Social Progress.

The castle at Merthyr - Cyfarthra Castle was built, crenelated as a safe refuge for the Crawshay's, to protect them from thier workers if they ever rebelled.

Richard Crawshay is burried in the picturesque village of Llanfoist - his grave was fenced off with an Iron Cage - ostensible to protect his corpse from those who would have burnt or mutilated it.

Gareth But the Devil would not have him,
And he gave him coal and patches
To set up his own on Barton (?Dowlais?) Hatches

Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: Bernard
Date: 24 Sep 02 - 06:57 PM

Mrs. Jones, she had a mangle
She did wind it with an 'andle
When she turned it at full power
She did twenty sheets an hour...

Cosher's older brother Diar
Wished to join the village choir
But the vicar said 'no fear!'
'We don't want no Diar 'ere!'

Cosher had a sister Ella
Who did have a fine umbrella
And she thought so much about it
That she never was without it
Then one day she had a date
With her best friend's cousin's mate
T'would have been a tale of folly
If she hadn't had her brolly...

Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: GUEST,Ced2
Date: 24 Sep 02 - 03:59 PM

Not sure who wrote the proper words (as opposed to the risque words as in "brothers Morgan, Matthew etc) but one source gives the tune as being from an old Welsh folk tune "The Black Pig". Cosher was a real person, an ironmaster who built (or had built) the Taff Vale Railway in 1846. According to local legend Cosher drove the first train and got the loco stuck in a tunnel. The Taff Vale, was at one time the most profitable railway in the U.K, (at a time when Britain was at war and good steam coal required to fuel the navy's ships was at a premium). Cosher died in 1872. His railway was at the centre of the infamous row in the early 1900's that led the Amalgamated Society of Railway Servants to be central to the formation of the committee for Labour Representation (Labour Party) to seek immunity from punitive punishments dished out when the Taff Vale Company took them to court during a most acrimonious dispute. One of the Taff Vale locomotives now over 100 years old is currently pulling trains on the Worth Valley Railway in West Yorkshire. This is not the loco that got stuck, it was built by Dubbs & Co in Glasgow in 1898?

Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Sep 02 - 02:13 PM

Robert Graves refers to the song in his WW1 autobiography Goodbye To All That. I think I recall that he gave the name as Crawshaw Bailey.

Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: GUEST,Valleyboy
Date: 24 Sep 02 - 02:57 AM

Nearly s2p,

Well it seams the Prince of Wales Came to see our lovely Vales He got drunk in Tonypany On a glass of Cherry Brandy

Theres lovely for you, Isn't it.

Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 23 Sep 02 - 10:00 PM

Have also seen the name as "Crusher Bailey" in a version of Hob Y Deri Dando.

Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: Micca
Date: 23 Sep 02 - 06:20 PM

Fretless, if you can fit it to Cosher Bailey by cutting the repeats you may as well have the other "extra verse"...hee hee

Come, into the garden Maude
And don't be so particular
Come, into the garden Maude
And don't be so particular
If the grass is cold and wet,
If the grass is cold and wet,
If the grass is cold and wet,
We'll do it perpendicular.

Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: fretless
Date: 23 Sep 02 - 03:26 PM

Micca, That could be it. It's got the right elements and if you drop the repeats it fits the Cosher Bailey meter. Nice to have that question solved after 37 years. Thanks.

Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: Micca
Date: 23 Sep 02 - 12:41 PM

Fretless, I think the verse you are referring to is an "extra verse" in" Landlord, fill the flowing bowl" and goes thus:

If I had another brick
I'd build by chimney higher
If I had another brick
I'd build by chimney higher
That would stop my neighbour's cat,
That would stop my neighbour's cat,
That would stop my neighbour's cat,
From pissing on my fire

Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: Schantieman
Date: 23 Sep 02 - 12:35 PM

One of the verses I used to sing as a Scout was:

Now he had a brother Rupert
Who played outside-half for Newport
And the day they played Llanelli
He got kicked right in the belly (make it rhyme!)

Steve

Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: songs2play
Date: 23 Sep 02 - 10:43 AM

I'm sure there was another verse ending-

Oh there was a prince called Charlie And he visited The Valley He got drunk in Tonypandy On a glass of Cherry Brandy.

With reference to Prince Charles ?

Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: fretless
Date: 23 Sep 02 - 10:23 AM

The thread linked by Snuffy has all the verses I remember hearing (and a few more) except one: about a cat on the roof, a chimney, and putting out the fire. I only heard it once, at a hostel in Scotland or Ireland back in '65. It was too beery that night for me to remember more.

Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: Mr Red
Date: 23 Sep 02 - 10:06 AM

everyone wrote it.
Which verses sopecifically?

Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: Snuffy
Date: 23 Sep 02 - 09:48 AM

This thread traces how Cosher Bailey developed from versions of Hob Y Deri Dando.

WassaiL! V

Subject: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 23 Sep 02 - 08:11 AM

any one know the composer of 'Cosher Bailey'?

i'm looking for more verses as well + similar compositions.