Help: How can you tell which voice you've got

Subject: RE: Help: How can you tell which voice you've got
From: Susan-Marie
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 01:41 PM

Now I know it wasn't meant maliciously, but I take exception to the assertion that "many altos are chicken sopranos". I am a first alto, meaning a high alto, so OK, I could probably sing soprano if I had to, but it would be an un-natural use of my voice and I'd never get to use those neat chesty notes I have. None of the altos I've met in various choirs has been afraid of singing higher, although sometimes we do fear for our eardrums when the sopranos start those high descants. :-)

The biggest bonus of singing alto is that it has given me a wonderful appreciation of harmony. Kris - you, your grandma and your daughter are very lucky to be altos. Think of how boring music would be if everyone sang melody.

When I do sing folk stuff solo, I usually have to transpose down a couple of keys - thank the muses for computer programs that do it for me now!

Subject: RE: Help: How can you tell which voice you've got
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 01:07 PM

I was amazed to see 30 messages posted to this thread in half a day, but it's a fascinating subject. I guess I sing fairly well from the A down there below the staff, to the F up there at the top. I also have a pretty good falsetto. What does that make me? I find that I feel a lot more comfortable with the high notes since I quit smoking.

There are many things I don't know about the opposite sex, and every day I find out more things I don't know. somebody above said something that implied that WOMEN also have a falsetto voice. Is that true?

When Dan Milner and Bob Conroy were here, I posed a question that left them speechless. Never did get an answer. Seems to me that people also speak with a melody - Dan and Bob agreed with that. Do some people speak off key?

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Help: How can you tell which voice you've got
From: radriano
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 12:53 PM

Dear King Brilliant:

I just have to put my two cents in here. Voice designations can be annoying. I'm somewhere between a low tenor and a high baritone but does it really matter? When I was attending college I wanted to sing in the chorus but it was really frustrating because the chorus director insisted that I was a tenor and should work on my high notes because that was where I belonged.

My theory is that you should sing where it's comfortable not where others insist you should be singing. That's why I prefer folk music to classical music (speaking in a vocal sense). I performed in a local Bay Area band that did a lot of acapella singing in which we often ignored the "rules" and were successful nonetheless.

I realize that I'm ranting somewhat here but voices sometimes fall in between the conventional designations of bass, alto, tenor and soprano.

Regards,
radriano

Subject: RE: Help: How can you tell which voice you've got
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 12:48 PM

There are various types of soprano in opera that I vaguely remember. I really don't know what I'm talking about here, so someone please feel free to correct this:

coloratura: a soprano with a light agile voice specializing in elaborate embellishment in vocal music (from the dictionary)

lyric soprano: ?? Isn't this what Kathleen Battles is? Very high and very sweet.

mezzo soprano: I believe this was what Maria Callas sang. Strong, dramatic soprano voice somewhat lower than the others.

Where's Alice, who studies operatic singing to tell us?

My voice was alto in high school choir, but now that I sing bluegrass, I usually end up singing the tenor part, which is the third over the melody. Bluegrass also identifies a "high tenor" which is the fifth over the melody, I think, and baritone and high baritone. I've seen women singing the tenor part in Handel's Messiah and other places, so it's not just for boys anymore!

Subject: RE: Help: How can you tell which voice you've got
From: Magpie
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 12:11 PM

Personally I think a pint of Smithwick's does the trick! I tend to squeal like nobody's business when I'm warming up, but then, as I finally get on stage and our drummer feeds me a pint -it's all there! Well, sometimes at least.

Warming up is a must, but all the same I do find that my voice gets tired very easily, and I seem to remember that there was a thread about some vocal chord soothing remedy to inhale. Anyone?

Magpie

Subject: RE: Help: How can you tell which voice you've got
From: MMario
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 12:03 PM

I'm another one with a range between the standard "baritone" and "tenor" -- I say "Barinor" when asked, because it sounds better then "teno-tone".

I've been told that many songs, which today would be arranged SATB - would have (centuries ago) been arranged as counter-tenor,tenor,bass. The person telling me this said it was primarily because women did not normally perform in public - so the high harmonies were provided by the counter-tenor; the melody was normally the tenor and the bass provided accent and depth. That's what I been told, and it makes sense....

MMario

Subject: RE: Help: How can you tell which voice you've got
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 11:30 AM

Ahhh...now I see........It's those damn grits Karen feeds me for breakfast! I knew it....

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: How can you tell which voice you've got
From: sophocleese
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 11:24 AM

My singing teacher used to tell me not to drink any milk, even in tea, before singing as it increases the production of mucus in the throat. Drinking coffe just before a performance tightens the throat and really cold water also closes things up. I drink a throat medicine tea that has licorice in it and find it very useful for soothing the throat and stopping it from feeling too tired out. Alcohol muddles things but also, in small quantities, helps me get over nerves so I try and figure out if I need it any particular time. If your'e going to be singing in an evening its a good idea to make sure you stay hydrated throughout the entire day leading up to it so your throat will be loose and relaxed.

Subject: RE: Help: How can you tell which voice you've got
From: Tony Burns
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 11:17 AM

Vixen,

May also have something to do with breakfast. There are some performers that are very careful about what they eat prior to (even 24 hours or more) a concert. I heard Cathy Miller (Canadian performer and voice coach) speak at length about this but don't remember much. Perhaps some other Mudder can provide information on the effects of different foods on our voices.

Subject: RE: Help: How can you tell which voice you've got
From: sophocleese
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 11:17 AM

Well once again I go to my handy copy of The Musician's Dictionary, I like it. "Counter-Tenor: the highest male voice currently available through legal and moral means. Sings roughly the same range as the Contralto, although he can sing lower if pressed, and higher if pinched. Counter-tenors have a tendency to sing on pitch, but out of rhythm, and to sound like a cross between an oboe and a buzz-saw. derived from the latin contra tenore, which means 'against Tenors'." I hope this clears things up for you Jeremiah. Sounds like you're tenor, just as some altos are chicken sopranos some baritones are chicken tenors, or should that be rooster?

Subject: RE: Help: How can you tell which voice you've got
From: Vixen
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 11:09 AM

Jeremiah--

I know that "wake up voice;" I can rattle the bathroom windows with it when I shower before breakfast! Can't get there after breakfast...something to do with the level of relaxation of the throat, I'll bet!

V

Subject: RE: Help: How can you tell which voice you've got
From: Jeremiah McCaw
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 10:54 AM

AndyG - thanks. That was a great link. I've never been sure how to describe my range other than sorta tenor but not that high. Turns out I'm in between tenor and baritone. Next quandary: describe that as counter-tenor or contra-tenor? Which is correct? I know one means "a bit above" and one "a bit below". Anybody? I'm SO confused!

My range is slightly over 2 octaves, but not all at the same time of day.
:-)
I swear there's a half octave on the bottom when I wake up that just ain't there later on!

Subject: RE: Help: How can you tell which voice you've got
From: sophocleese
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 10:20 AM

Grace notes are warbles, trills, etc that you add to a melody to dress it up. If a song ends by going down E, D, C, and instead you sing E, D, C, quick B, and back to C, you've added a grace note. Coloratura singers just add them all over the place. They have range and flexibilty in their voices.

Subject: RE: Help: How can you tell which voice you've got
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 10:15 AM

Right - I'm off home to test my range....... & find my breaking point.

Catspaw - perhaps they said "baaaad" - which is a whole other thing... By the way, can you tune to an A possum??

If grace notes are the twiddly-slidely bits, then I can't resist them. I think that's what they are. But I am so unsure of everything now. We have had all manner of controversy raging in the office as to which of those cakewalk notes was which on the guitar. Our resident jazz-man reckoned middle C went on the A string, but I disbelieve him - his theories make me a soprano & that I know I'm not.

I've settled on the theory that I must be a contra-alto. Til proven otherwise.

Kris

Subject: RE: Help: How can you tell which voice you've got
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 10:13 AM

I've found there are two things (actually two parts of the same problem) that turn my voice off. I seem to have learned somewhere, that to project, I must clamp down on my vocal chords and use these to produce more volume. It has the opposite effect. Tightening my throat makes the sound shakey, makes my voice break. Insufficient air makes me do the vocal chord clamping thing. What I have to constantly tell myself is to relax my throat and shove more air out to get the volume. I try to imagine the path of the sound as a line from my abdomen to a place in between my mouth and nose, and try to relax everything in between that may interfere with the sound. I long for the day when this becomes second nature and I can quit concentrating on it.

Subject: RE: Help: How can you tell which voice you've got
From: Vixen
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 10:06 AM

O Dear, 'Spaw's here Gotta go find A possum's behind!

Subject: RE: Help: How can you tell which voice you've got
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 09:52 AM

Personally, I have, in the past, just asked people and they say I have a "Bad" voice. Now I no longer feel the need to ask.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: How can you tell which voice you've got
From: Cara
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 09:40 AM

What are grace notes exactly? I don't know anything about singing except that some songs I sing well and others I don't, and even that varies rather awkwardly from day to day.

Subject: RE: Help: How can you tell which voice you've got
From: Vixen
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 09:39 AM

Kris--

about singing in the office--I work at a college, where folks are used to unusual things, and my office right now, in light of organizational restructuring, is a storeroom about thirty steps from the back door, so there's no one nearby to hear.

V

Subject: RE: Help: How can you tell which voice you've got
From: Vixen
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 09:35 AM

Kris--

Like you, I can get down to the C on the 3 fret A string; my top goes higher, though--up to the F on the 13th fret E string. The C on the first fret B string is 'middle C', which is, *I think* C4.

No need to be jealous though. My voice is *VERY* inconsistent. I never know, from song to song, whether it will be "on" or "off," meaning under my control or not. Because I can't "use" it how I want to when I want to, I'm not a very effective vocal interpreter of music. It seems to be mostly psychological and spiritual...but I don't know what "turns it on" and "turns it off." People tell me it's awesome when it's "on." They say when it's "off" it's too faint and the pitch is unsteady. But I can tell that for myself. My voice teacher says if I have any "on" at all, then I will eventually be able to turn it "on" at will. I am learning, but very slowly, and life is shorter than we think...

V

Subject: RE: Help: How can you tell which voice you've got
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 08:45 AM

AndyG - thanks for the link. I was hoping someone would post one. Cheers.

Vixen - I still don't know. I am at work at the moment so I can't sing-along-a-ranges. When I was trying to transpose some songs last night into my range I reckoned to get down to the D string on the guitar comfortably, and a bit lower if I really tried. And then I can sing in a high voice bit up to about the B on the top D string & maybe a bit higher if I really try (but then its a bit hit & miss). BUT - I can't remember where the 'break'is. I know there's a bit where I can be either chest or head, so then does that mean its a moveable break-point? Hmmmm. I think I am getting even more confused. Especially as I am trying to work out how those cakewalk notes relate to the guitar string notes (I tried to search on cakewalk websites but wasn't getting anywhere). HOWEVER - I am now going to try that encyclopedia link thing & see if that helps...... Anyway, I am much intrigued by the thought of you going through all those ranges sat at your desk. In an office???? Am VERY jealous of your tenor-mezzosoprano voice - You mention that you are learning to use it effectively, how are you going about it?

Kris

Subject: RE: Help: How can you tell which voice you've got
From: Magpie
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 08:29 AM

Coloratura is when yoiu add "gracenotes", and a lot of them to, say, an aria. I.a.w. embellishment of a song.

If the table at the website is a bit dickey to understand, the C5, A4, F4 means the note C in the fifth octave, the note A in the octave below and the note F same octave as the A. Any wiser? As you can see, there is a range difference of nearly an octave between a soprano and a contralto.

Heady or throaty? Try to hit a fairly low note, and then gradually rise up to the highest note you can manage. At a certain point, your voice will "brake", and you'll sing ina falsetto voice. A lot of singers use this actively, some even sings whole songs in a falsetto voice with a rather nice reault. Some, however, like meself, sound like little ol' ladies, very shaky and uncertain.

Any wiser?

Magpie

Subject: RE: Help: How can you tell which voice you've got
From: AndyG
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 08:24 AM

Sorry Vixen,
my musical skills are limited to making it up as I go along so I can't comment on the accuracy.
I just find the sites. I leave it up to the talents to analyse the results.

AndyG

Subject: RE: Help: How can you tell which voice you've got
From: Vixen
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 08:16 AM

AndyG--

Is the scale on that website accurate? Are those the "standard" definitions of the voices? Just sitting here at my desk and unwarmed-up, I seem to be able to sing from tenor "do" to mezzosoprano "mi". I'm suddenly feeling rather gifted...(bearing in mind, of course, that what I have is useless if I can't use it effectively, which is what I'm just starting to learn to do!)

Based on what Cathy said about "breaks," my voice seems to "break" (again, unwarmed up) someplace in the middle of the contralto range, so I guess I'm a contralto.

Kris, what *is* your voice? Was the scale chart helpful?

V

Subject: RE: Help: How can you tell which voice you've got
From: sophocleese
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 08:03 AM

A Musician's Dictionary by David W. Barber defines a Coloratura Soprano as: A Soprano with hiccups.

I have heard of a choir being divided into four voices; ladies, altos, tenors and men.

Subject: RE: Help: How can you tell which voice you've got
From: AndyG
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 07:45 AM

This may well help.

Misty Mountain Dance Record Vocal Range Information.

AndyG

---

Vocal Range Information

Below is a chart regarding vocal ranges. Ranges are according to the New Harvard Dictionary of Music.

Low notes and high notes are according to the music notation used in the Cakewalk sequencer. Middle C is C5, so that is the lowest a soprano can sing, and the highest a bass can sing. A normal vocal range is about 1 1/2 octaves. Each range is about two notes apart from the next range on either side.

Download and play the files below to determine your vocal range.

Downloads include a midi file for each range, using a piano sound to play the scale. Each midi file is about 300 or so bytes each (very small for quick downloading). Each sound file is in .wav format and each are about 300K in size, so they take much longer to download. However, the sound files are not very good quality, as reducing the quality reduced the download size by 87%.

Range	Low Note	High Note	Downloads	Downloads
Soprano	C5	A6	midi	wav
Mezzo Soprano	A4	F6	midi	wav
Alto	F4	D6	midi	wav
Contralto	D4	B5	midi	wav
Tenor	B3	G5	midi	wav
Baritone	G3	E5	midi	wav
Bass	E3	C5	midi	wav

---

Sound files no longer work. -Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Help: How can you tell which voice you've got
From: FionaN
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 07:37 AM

I've heard voices decribed as Contralto befoer, so what does that mean. Also, how do you train yourself to sing 'properly'. Mine all seems to come from throat/head...or should I enlist the services of a teacher...?

Subject: RE: Help: How can you tell which voice you've got
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 07:29 AM

Now that is a real cliff-hanger Cathy. So - where are the break threshholds in relation to the different voices. AND I really need to know more about this passing for a male tenor - do please try to describe it. So - is the alto bit the throat bit and the soprano the head bit? Now I'm getting really confused/intrigued. And if alto=throat & soprano=head then what body-bits do the male ones use???? :)

AND - I've got a lovely mental image of a choir of chicken sopranos....

Kris

Subject: RE: Help: How can you tell which voice you've got
From: kendall morse (don't use)
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 06:58 AM

what is a coloratura?? (sic)

Subject: RE: Help: How can you tell which voice you've got
From: Cathy
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 06:55 AM

Many altos are just chicken sopranos. The real indicator is where your voice "breaks" - switches from head to throat and back - the place where you yodell. I can sing pretty high and very very low, i break at about A flat. I can also pass for a male tenor (by sound only) if I use my voice in a different way (but I don't know how to describe that)

Subject: RE: Help: How can you tell which voice you've got
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 03:47 AM

Thanks Magpie,

In that case - yes Granny was an alto & so am I & so is my daughter. So that makes me feel all mellow and connected to the past & the future (far too mellow a moment for sitting at my desk at work, but c'est la vie). But - now I have to figure out what my Dad is..... where do low, middle & high start & end??? And then can you get male altos and female tenors - or is it exclusive to gender?

Kris the enlightened (well getting there...)

Subject: RE: Help: How can you tell which voice you've got
From: Magpie
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 03:37 AM

Hello there, King Brilliant

If your granny's voice was quite low, she was probably an alto. Soprano is the highest pitched woman's voice, and alto is the low pitched. Bass is the lowest pitched man's voice, tenor is the highest and baritone is pitched in the middle.

So if you are comfortable with the deep notes, you will be a bass or a baritone, and vice versa.

Are you enlightened? Magpie

Subject: How can you tell which voice you've got?
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 03:03 AM

I have always wanted to know, and have just had the brilliant idea of actually ASKING .... I know there are sopranos, altos, tenors & whatevers - but how do you know which one your voice is most like? What are the criteria? Is it range? I want to find out whether my voice is inherited from my great-granny. In typical fashion I've forgotten which one she was, but it was very low and quite loud (I'll ask my mum as soon as the hour hits a reasonable number). Cheers'm'dears.

Kris