BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 02:40 PM

I would be the last person to know whether i was engaging in "arrant stupidity" or not. Given that, I am inclined to think my comments were fairly accurate.

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 01:50 PM

Pythonesque ??? that's far too modern...
Some of the old traditionalists here stopped off with The Goons.

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 01:47 PM

the out of date Pythonesqe "humour"

Now wait just a durned minute! Alot of that 1970 stuff Pythonesque humor is really quite contemporary & germaine.

The world, regrettably, hasn't changed much overallin the interval.

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 01:16 PM

I got infested with sheep ticks in Ireland once. I found them very irritating.

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 01:15 PM

Hermless

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 01:10 PM

I don't think you are a Musket Dave....you're "Hermless" :0)...Cue for a song!!


Wish I had that plate Dave,    When I was young, my nickname was "Ticks" afew years ago, I saw the reg. T 1 CKS.

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 12:56 PM

Hi ake - oddly enough I just saw your car! Well, not really, but the number plate was T1 AKE.

Niceties over - You talk a load of crap. It was nothing like you imply and you cannot substantiate any accusations 'trying to avoid the consequences' any 'team' being 'forced to split' or 'lack of intellect'. Let alone the other shite you just spouted. Funny that someone so keen on keeping to the subject in hand and not abusing anyone is one of the biggest abusers on the forum isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 12:54 PM

He's not making it a better place by posting arrant stupidity either!


I read tons of stuff on here that I never respond to. There are several reasons for that, usually to do with the fact that I don't know enough or am not clever enough or that it's about jazz, but one of which is that I'm past caring. If anyone here ever catches me posting on a topic about which I'm past caring, please refer me immediately to a trick cyclist. I'll pay, I promise.

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 12:50 PM

Its quite obvious who the muskets are. Three or four(at one point) people who teamed up to wreck discussion here.

They shared usernames to avoid the consequences of their nasty personal abuse. Now the team has been forced to split, but the phraseology, the lame attempts at sarcasm, the out of date Pythonesqe "humour", makes their identities all too clear.

First they tried to get those who disagreed with them banned from the forum, then they started reporting what they termed "hate speech" to the police, when admin failed to support them in their claims they reported the forum to the authorities for PRINTING "hate speech".
They tried to have the whole show closed down!
Now they are reduced to sniping and printing obscenities and libellous comments about individual members......what other forum would be as patient with their fundamentalist brethren?

I suppose their wishes of death on their opponents, the character assassination attempts, the criminal libels, the cursing, the ageism, the use of terms of abuse which demean womankind, could be put down to lack of intellect, but don't we think that time has run out on these thugs?

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 12:39 PM

Stim. This thread is about abuse of administrative privelage. Steve has not been "saying this for a long time" because it has only just happened. Any mention of past conversations is just trying to put people off the fact that this is what happened. You are not helping to make this a better place by defending poor moderation.

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 12:23 PM

Steve,

Joe and Jeri are very different sorts. Jeri is the sort who'd grab you by the collar and let you know exactly what she thinks. (Your idea that she's "cowardly" will evaporate instantly, should you ever meet her). Joe is the sort who would kindly(but firmly)sit you down and ask to hear your story. Not the one you toss off in casual conversation, but the real one.

I mention this because I think each of them has a point--Jeri, that you've been saying the same things for a long time, and that she and we have heard it all already, and are past caring...

Joe, on the other hand, is looking beyond that, senses that you have real, personal cause for your anger and bitterness, and is trying engage you in a way that will reconcile that.

Personally, though well intended, I generally regard that sort of thing as a bit paternalistic. You keep bringing these issues to the table though, and seem to want some resolution.

I really hope you can find some peace.

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Louie Roy
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 12:12 PM

I don't know who has the authority to delete a thread but this thread should have been deleted immediately after it was started this not mudcat is all about

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 11:46 AM

However I treat that as a bit of a joke, the moderators work on a voluntary basis and its up to us to try and moderate ourselves.

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 11:44 AM

My Dear Mr. Miles,

I would like to inform you that in my opinion, you perfectly fit the definition of a Certified Asshole.

Congratulations!

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 10:45 AM

I have said for years that people seem to speak a different language at times. Not the usual old crap about American and British English, simply that people are on a different wavelength. I fully understood Steve's point. Posting to a thread when it was closed, with no chance of reply, was an abuse of administrative powers. Yet the discussion seems to have turned around to Steve's failings. Of which I am sure, like me and many others, he has.

St Joe's facade slips once again. Yes, I do mean once again, I have been subject to the drive-by character assassination as well, By Good ol' Joe, who never does any harm to anyone.

I do apologise for bringing it up as it seems I am indulging in the same sort of thing. And I am sure I will be told, in no uncertain terms, that I am just being combative for the sake of it. Nothing could be further from the truth. I am just pointing out that there seems to be some sort of communications break down which, instead of trying to resolve, people are using for their own ends.

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 07:46 AM

"Harry,"
27 Nov 15 - 01:42 PM

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 07:05 AM

What a disreputable attempt at character assassination, Joe. Let me apprise you of a couple of things. First, I operate in these discussions entirely on my own. Of course, it's very nice when someone expresses agreement. Second, I've had a very busy week, taking an old lady out for lunch (five hours' driving in terrible weather), taking people to medical appointments over an hour's drive from home, helping my daughter to move house in the pissing rain (she lives an hour and a half away from us) and trying (at 300-mile distance) to fix up a stair lift for my old mum and getting the engineers to fix my parents' central heating, as mum and dad can't handle the call centres as they're deaf. Bloody nightmare, actually, but they wiped my bottom and brought me up right and now it's payback time. All this and my bad back, that I had surgery on two years ago to try to mitigate the loss of several of my discs, has been playing up big-time, probably because of lifting heavy weights and spending interminable hours behind the wheel. Apart from listening to a bit of Beethoven late at night, I've done hardly anything for myself all week. But I'm still here and we've just had a delightful half-hour facetiming with our new grandson, the world's most beautiful baby ever. Too much bloody information, eh? Now when you tell us (repeatedly) about all your good deeds, it's to make us see what a good Catholic you are (though why you feel you need to keep telling us, heaven only knows). But I'm not telling you this to make you think what a great atheist I am. I'm telling you this to inform you that there is real life out here and that Mudcat is not it. Get a grip, Joe. If you didn't want to discuss faith with me the solution was in your own hands, so please spare me the sanctimonious bullshit about how hurt you are, how I attack that which you "hold sacred", how you got suckered in, etc. I don't discuss WWI interpretation any more with Teribus because the game ain't worth the candle. I know exactly what would happen and I'm not quite insane. Religion can't be immune from discussion and criticism like it was in the Middle Ages. You are either happy to discuss it and fend off the attacks because you feel secure about it (even pete makes a good fist of that, fair dues to the man), or you avoid it because you'd rather investigate your insecurities on your own. Both are honest strategies. You seem to fall between stools, unfortunately. I am not here to win unwinnable battles and I'm not here to discuss it interminably. These threads end and, this one aside (which was not meant to be a religion thread in any case), I hardly ever start new ones. I'm not a chess-playing automaton who's out to get you. I'm a human being who likes discussing one of his favourite subjects. And you can simply sod off with your unwarranted troll accusations, Jeri. I can't remember the last time I read a decent contribution from you. Plenty of negative input, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 05:59 AM

I don't know about anyone else but when I read the phrase "Musket clone" I read it to mean someone with the same sort of views or approach to arguing as Musket. After all, whether you are using the word clone in the scientific sense or informally it denotes a copy, not the original. So it did not imply to me either that the person referenced knew Musket, as Steve would have it, or that they actually were Musket as Harry would.

And no, I didn't post it either.

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 05:30 AM

Tiresome nonsense.

Regards

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST,Harry Forest
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 04:28 AM

Talking of free speech, which moderator has told Keith A of Hertford that I am one of the Musket tribe?

Is lying part of free speech then? Is making claims only the moderators know isn't true (access to IP) a privilege?

It's a good job Mudcat has some excellent UK music threads.

Or is it Keith lying again? It has to be one of them. You can't call me anything that I'm not. I'm a man from Bristol who lost his cookie and since then hasn't bothered with it. I did think labels were unimportant but just to echo the Musket post above, labels seem to be important when your argument is shallow.

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 02:56 AM

So why get all pissy when the Catholic Church is criticised?

Why feel the need to defend it without right of reply?

All you do is confirm that religion cannot hold its own in debate when faced with rational argument.

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 02:47 AM

I dunno, Jeri. I hate to write people off as just trolls. Maybe you're right, though.
I don't want to see anybody written off. I just want to be able to have a peaceful, friendly conversation.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 02:41 AM

This is my first post to this thread. My name is Ian Mather. Two other people use the Musket name with my full and total blessing. The more I read, the more I feel justified in confusing names so as people have to address the text not the name posting it.

I notice a few others have started doing likewise. Good.

The post complaining that free speech is not the same as bigotry could have been a fellow Musket but there again I didn't see the name so I can't tell. The assumption by moderators that it was is either based on prejudice or use of IP address. as VPN is rather popular now (and two of us as Musket use the same work VPN, it is a mental leap.)

Steve Shaw, who I've never met, never emailed, pm'd or anything else for that matter, started a thread complaining that Joe Offer used his position to contribute a view on a closed thread with no right of reply. I'm not surprised. Joe has also taken to using the personal email that Mudcat stores in order to drag his arguments further. I was shocked to have an email from him accusing me of all sorts of nonsense.

I find some on here are using the name Musket to denote someone who attacks their view. Do you know what? As stupid as that is, I'm relaxed about it. Mudcat below the line is a surreal place and I love to have a laugh at some of the absurd bullshit here, and yes, when the shit settles, give it a stir to get my money's worth.

But the mudelf comment below a plea to moderate homophobia is about as crass, disgusting and low as you can get. To say that someone who lies to influence opinion to hate people and someone who is on the receiving end of the attacks are two sides of the same coin beggers belief.

I didn't post anything on any thread from some time this summer to about last week. When I did, I had a glance through a few threads where the usual suspects go off on one. I was delighted to see them squeal "Musket!" as anonymous people bring them down a peg or two.

Was it one of my mates? Well, one left Mudcat he says, after complaining to his ISP and the other was posting far less anyway. I haven't spoken to either in months.

If it is poking fun at the pompous aspects of superstition or having a pop at those who follow the party line on military blunders then by all means call yourself Musket. My work is done.

Luv&hugs.

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST,Forsaken
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 02:13 AM

Men that love wisdom must be acquainted with very many things indeed.--Heraclitus

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 10:00 PM

Joe, back when I was newer to the internet, I realized trolls don't want to resolve arguments, and the only thing they want is to keep them going forever. It's about control and manipulation. It's not why I'm here, and that's why I don't respond when people keep holding up hoops for me to jump through. Sad people, small tragic lives, and that isn't anything to aspire to, but that seems to be the only reason some people are at Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 09:49 PM

I have to say that there's something to be said for Steve Shaw's kind of participation in the Forum. It's like a game of chess - move and countermove, move again and checkmate. There's a real, worthwhile challenge in defeating a formidable opponent. Lots of people participate in Internet forums for this reason - to do battle, and to enjoy the thrill and challenge of it all. Steve is especially adept at it, since he claims to have no opinion of his own. He parries counterattacks by claiming that he never said what it's clear that he said, and then he cries "foul" at people who quote him word-for-word but still don't capture his ever-changing position. And then he attacks, usually by using the same tactics he decries - and very cleverly, he denies ever having attacked or insulted anyone. He's kept this up in thread after thread after thread, and he's very good at it.

But Steve's approach is all a very shallow game of deception and manipulation and outright fraud. For him, it's all a game. And I'm sure it's a very thrilling game - and it's certainly a stimulating intellectual challenge. I can't say that Steve's game is all bad. Seems like it's a very good game - for people who want to play. In Steve's game, the primary object is to defeat opponents. It's just another addictive video game. But people like Steve play that game well, and more power to them.

As Steve has adeptly demonstrated to my chagrin, combat confuses and frustrates me; and forces me into positions I do not want to take, and into corners I do not want to be boxed into. I don't want to do combat here - not ever.

I think there are other people here who, like me, might not like to think of the BS forum as a video combat game. How we be accommodated when the BS section is dominated by people who want to do combat?

---

I really enjoy a good, honest, open discussion - and I have had many rich, wonderful discussions here over the years. I want to hear what everyone thinks - and I want to enjoy and respect the people I talk with, even if I might not agree with them. Even if their position is not my position, I can learn from them. I want to think out loud, to try out ideas with receptive people without fear of being attacked for the ideas I've proposed. I want to be able to laugh in a discussion, and to learn. I have no desire to win a discussion - for me, that's not what it's about.

And most of all, I want to be able to be honest, to be able to say what I think and be myself without fear of ridicule or attack. I'd like to think that sort of thing should be possible in a community of folk musicians.

I don't know how this can be accomplished - to have room at Mudcat for both the thrill of combat and the free, generous, gentle exchange of ideas that can happen in a rich discussion.

Any thoughts?

-Joe

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 09:33 PM

Get a life, some people.

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 09:01 PM

Get a life, people.

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 08:55 PM

Stick with the MC it will make you a kinder, gentler person over time.

Clones are known, you just need to use milliseconds based on GMT and geographic location ISP. In fact...there is a beautiful map.


Be Happy...Be THANKFUL.
Sincerely,
Gargoyle

My polished reputation is intack only because of the expunging tact mudcat mods exercised in the past

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 07:53 PM

To be honest, pete, I'm amazed that it's still here. It's becoming a bit of a Mudcat formula: let the whingers whinge for a few dozen posts, then, when the going gets tough, *bang!* Deaded!

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST,Peter from seven stars link
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 07:48 PM

The way this is going, I reckon it will be closed very soon....

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 07:48 PM

Your interventions are very entertaining, Guest. Joe and Jeri must really love having you onside. Though Jeri probably wouldn't admit to it. After all, they agree with you. On the other hand, a little mudelf intervention (shall we guess who?) denigrated Musket for being right. Wow.

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 07:24 PM

I'll take you to pieces...

Give it up.......creep!

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 07:19 PM

" The issue is that people don't believe you."

Well, you seem able to speak for "people". Would you care to list the "people" who don't believe me, please? The truth is, Jeri, that you are something of a jobsworth dullard in these parts. Why, last week you were castigating people for doing that most wonderful of things on Mudcat, reopening an ancient thread with a new take. And just look how that thread took off again!

"So we have the guy who hates, not so much religion as people who are religious."

So who's he? Gosh, we have a lot of this "the guy who..." and "the usual suspects..." etcetera ad nauseam. Go on, name names. I'll take you to pieces but I won't sue you, I promise!

"I have no doubt mostly everybody knows exactly who I'm talking about, even if I haven't mentioned one single name. Telling, no?"

No, not telling. The only thing that's telling is that you're too cowardly to name names. Oh, by the way. In your litany of pejoratives (which I deleted from this post as it was far too tedious) was the description of the Catholic guy who calls people who think he's wrong to defend forcing children to be indoctrinated under crucifixes " bigots, literalists and absolutists." Did you forget, or is he your uncle?

"You look at arguments these people participate in permanently and repetitively, and you notice that it's the same people all the time, and new people don't ever get involved, and those participants not only don't have a clue what they do to the forum, but don't care. They're either stupid or numb. The repetitive nastiness drives me nuts..."

Lies. New people get involved all the time. Read the thread. You are saying what you want to be true so that you can have a stick to beat us with, but you don't check your facts. Weird. And the irony of the last half of that quote is entirely lost on you.

"Free speech doesn't exist here. Most of the people who bitch about not having it are trolls."

Name names. With your evidence, please. I haven't seen this here in this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 07:03 PM

It seems to me that in a forum where one can say 'almost' anything, it becomes common for some to complain when they find they can't say 'totally' anything.
I think being a Moderator is like being president, or Prime Minister... you'll never please everyone. They are unpaid HUMAN volunteers who are basically trusted by the owner... they do their best and realize it's never quite 'good enough'.

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 06:16 PM

And most of the unnamed people seem compelled to have the last word on any thread they are active on.

I hereby declare I am content if someone posts after this one.

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 06:07 PM

Steve, "How many times do have to say it."

Once was enough. The issue is that people don't believe you.

About the whole "free speech" thing, in most places people shut up about whatever and get on with life. Here, they just re-hash the SSDD. So we have the guy who hates, not so much religion as people who are religious. We have the guy who hates the idea of gay people getting married and having kids, and we have the guy who hates that guy. We have the guy who thinks not believing in any god is a religion. We have the guy who talks about historical things such as WWI non-stop, and we have the guy who hates him. Then we have the guy from 'so called sanity' who obviously is from somewhere else.

I have no doubt mostly everybody knows exactly who I'm talking about, even if I haven't mentioned one single name. Telling, no?

You look at arguments these people participate in permanently and repetitively, and you notice that it's the same people all the time, and new people don't ever get involved, and those participants not only don't have a clue what they do to the forum, but don't care. They're either stupid or numb. The repetitive nastiness drives me nuts, but not for long because I usually can't be bothered paying attention to it.

I truly wish Max would just declare a moratorium on BS until maybe the new year. (Not sure which one.)

Free speech doesn't exist here. Most of the people who bitch about not having it are trolls. I wish we were arguing about infringement on free speech because of someone's point of view instead of them feeling entitled to attack people they don't like.

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST,Time stamp
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 05:50 PM

@Joe--https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TGS-JD80nE
       How refreshing ! Newey to me, but what a wise man.

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 05:31 PM

I don't even know who Musket is. Ask him. I'm as confused as anyone else by his multiple identities. He and I have never exchanged messages either as PMs here or as private emails. Not once, ever. I'm very honest, Guest. Unlike you. If you're on Joe's side, ask him whether it's right to judge people without full knowledge. On second thoughts, sadly, he may not be the right person to ask.

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 05:24 PM

Another Musket/s clone with a huge chip on his shoulder - give it up FFS, most of us are sick of the repetitive song you are singing.

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 05:15 PM

Well shiver me timbers. I think I'm being too subtle. My original post was a sardonic observation on yet another piece of Mudcat moderatorial clumsiness. Not a complaint, not a rant against censorship or the "attack on free speech." How many times do have to say it. THIS...IS...NOT...MY...GIG. I come to the gig and I contribute. Generally speaking, I refrain from calling people names these days. I won't get specific, but at least three confounded idiots post to this thread, yet they are all given a free pass. The three confounded idiots in question all suck up to the moderators and manage to persuade them that they're harmless duffers (one of which is but two of which are decidedly not, but when you've flattered the mods you can get away with anything). I'm not a confounded idiot and I don't suck up to anyone. I'm not in anyone's team. In that thread I repeatedly challenged Joe Offer's denial and he got more and more bitter and aggressive. He called me lots of names. Don't arse about here, jumping to his defence like an automaton because you're his mate. Go and read the thread. It's much harder work to do that and do the collar work and ditch the prejudice that it is to be lazily prejudiced. My posts were detailed, to the point, reactive and direct. I asked one question over and over again, is it right to tell children lies in school about God and Jesus instead of the plain truth, which is that there is no evidence for their existence. Joe's allies alleged that the question was answered but "not to Steve's satisfaction." Well it wasn't answered AT ALL! I didn't go on that thread to be Mr Spock or to twist the knickers of believers. They managed that very well for themselves, if you read the thread.

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Kampervan
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 04:56 PM

This real issue here is not 'free speech', debate, discussion or persuasion.

It is about the freedom for certain individuals to be as rude, insulting and personally vindictive as they chose. It is not what I come to this forum for and I don't believe that it is what the majority of the members of Mudcat want.

More to the point, if it is not what the founder, owner and moderators want, then those who don't like it should seek a different forum.

If I am wrong, and these people do have a place here, then I, like too many before me, will go elsewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: gnu
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 04:39 PM

"Some of the moderators have strong views on WHAT can be discussed, not the manner of the discussion."

Here's some free speech... bullshit.

"I don't like anybody very much, so screw the lot of you. But have a nice day."

Ditto that free speech eh?

13C here today. Very windy. Gonna drop temp and rain and snow tonight. Yes, the weather is far more important to me than

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 02:51 PM

So, HiLo, what is or is not being done at Mudcat that affects free speech?

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 01:52 PM

If free speech does not apply to everyone, then there is no free speech. Ugly as some of the views expressed here are, on both left and right , they do fall under free speech. The answer is to continually challenge those views.

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 01:43 PM

You have missed the point Rap, totally.

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 01:42 PM

Apparently, saying I shouldn't be allowed to marry, putting "" around marriage when applying to me and countless others, saying I have a sexually transmitted disease and that laws to make us all equal are pathetic all come under free speech eh?

Even when the two worst perpetrators lie and twist health figures in order to substantiate their hatred? Oh, it's alright, they have free speech. Yet the worst creature is quite quick to run to moderators and claim that he has seen some imaginary solicitor when accurate observations about him are put out. Moderators close them down because free speech applies to homophobes but not offended gay men.

Fuck off

---

This hateful and pointed little rant is going to stay in place instead of being deleted to make a point. Because Musket/s can't just say something, they have to keep twisting the screw, bringing up again and again the thing they hate about the person they stalk, starting the same fight in a new location. GET OVER IT. Your life is yours, and the party you disagree with isn't going to change or go away. Neither of you will. Find something else to talk about. You kill a lot of threads with this particular running battle, and logging on as an anonymous guest or as Harry Forest or anyone else doesn't disguise the huge chip on your shoulder. I would hazard that many moderators agree with your political views, but what is deleted is the stalking behavior. ---annoyed mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 01:23 PM

Words and actions have consequences for which you are responsible.

The rules for posting on the Mudcat Cafe are quite clear. Play by them or leave. This is not, and never was, a "democracy" or anything else other than a moderated forum.

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 01:22 PM

..and another observation...A few threads ago, (and I can't recall which thread), Joe gave a small list of those that he felt were more 'Conservative' or leaning that way....and it's those same people defending Joe, and the way he has conducted his duties on Mudcat...whereas, those who identify with being 'liberal', are the same name callers, those who label other people as bigots, racists, homophobic, and religious nutcases , and who disrupt threads with such antics, or the mods who delete posts which they don't agree with...and attack anyone who doesn't tow the 'party line', even when the 'party line' is completely misleading!!!

...just an impartial observation...observe it yourselves...then wonder about what some of you have fallen into, by manipulations, of a compassionate nature turned 'political'....

...but then, a lot of those same people, are the ones who spend so much time arguing on here, because they can't win an argument with their spouses!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: What price free speech, Mudcat?
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 27 Nov 15 - 01:02 PM

The problem Acme, is that people are often accused of "hate speech" or one the isms, just because they disagree with many others or, God forbid, they disagree with those who are always right.
We do not all share the same definition of hate speech and isms, there is the problem.