BS: Islamic radicalism . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 May 14 - 02:31 PM

Certainly Greg, but are you not embarrassed by your ignorance, and of needing things explained to you by a FW?

Islamists are followers of Islamism, a movement that seeks the overthrow of democracy and its forcible replacement with fundamentalist Islamic rule and the Sharia.
When a decent Muslim person is converted to Islamism, he or she is said to have been "radicalised" into that extremist and radical version of Islam.

Can I help you understand anything else?

Musket, does any other religion have an equivalent movement?
If so my opinion of them would be the same.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 May 14 - 02:13 PM

What's an "Islamist Radical", FW? Can you define your terms?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 17 May 14 - 01:43 PM

Many would contend that religion is a threat to peace regardless of the cult.

For me, it is more complicated than that. Religion is an excellent tool for using others to further your aims due to the shallowness of superstition.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 May 14 - 01:33 PM

Would you not say that Islamist radicals are bad people?
Boko Haram?
al Shabab?
al Qaeda?
Hamas?
The London bombers?

The premise of this thread, as claimed by the UN Middle East envoy, is that they are a grave threat to peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: GUEST
Date: 17 May 14 - 12:16 PM

People who kill or harm other people are bad, regardless of their religion or lack thereof. End of story.

What is the reason to assign a particular religion to bad people? Why isn't the conversation about bad people instead of about religion? Some Muslims kill people. Some Christians kill people. Some communists kill people. Some capitalists kill people. Some politicians kill people. Some black people kill people. Some white people kill people. Some women kill people. Some men kill people. Some children kill people. Some adults kill people. Some governments kill people. Some drivers kill people. Some dogs kill people.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Musket
Date: 17 May 14 - 09:56 AM

And still you haven't read it.

I wish life was as simple as you portray it. Imagine being able to read without having to think what is being put. You'd not be able to form any opinion though..

TC.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 May 14 - 09:45 AM

TC, you said, "If anyone bothers to read the OP, they will see it isn't about Islamic radicalism at all." so I pasted it in case anyone believed you.

I doubt anyone does now, so perhaps I needn't have bothered.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Musket
Date: 17 May 14 - 08:47 AM

TC Keith just cut and pasted the first post to make me look thick. Perhaps he forgot to read it first.

TC.

And in other news,

What do you get if you order the slaughter of over a thousand Muslims?

You get to win the Indian election!


(I love Brian May's bit about "not the ones who behave but the others" clause. The only sad bit about it is that it just goes to prove how over rated democracy is....)

Michael. Your Sudanese example... Does that mean all Christians are as bad as the Ugandan churches that lobbied for capital punishment for being gay?

Tell you what, when I see Tahir, my appointments secretary on Monday, I'll ask him to apologise for the Sudanese court. I may have to show him on a map where Sudan is though, he hasn't been far from Leeds in his life other than one family holiday to see relatives in Kashmir.

The day diplomats recognise Islamic radicalism as an entity, the day will have arrived when we can send the tanks into the enemy.   If you think it is nationally imposed, I suggest asking nurse. She might put you right. After all, all governments of all countries have a mandate to govern all eh?

zzzzz

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 May 14 - 06:17 AM

"I know of no religion that encourages cutting off the heads of those who refuse to convert. What I do know is that a few nutters professing to belong to certain religions might have such predilections."

.,,.

Come, Steve, how can you be so disingenuous? You know as well as I do that a Sudanese woman has been sentenced to death for "apostasy", tho she was brought up a Christian and has never pretended to be anything else. She is to be executed when her child is just about old enough to realise what is going on. Humane religious practice, or what! She must also receive 100 lashes, quite soon, because, though her marriage was fully legal where it took place, Muslims in Sudan may not marry out and so hers has no legal standing there, and so sexual intercourse with her lawful wedded husband counts as "adultery" in the view of the authorities.

And this is not the work of "a few nutters", but of the legally constituted government of a recognised state with which we and all others maintain full diplomatic relations.

Similar instances could be cited from several other such Islamic jurisdicitons, in the Far East, the Mid-East, Africa...; as we are all well aware. "Work of a few nutters", your Aunt Fanny! It's the work of nationally imposed, diplomatically recognised, Islamic Radicalism, as rubricated in the thread title. And stop pretending otherwise. It's beneath you, Steve.


~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 May 14 - 04:17 AM

You made that up Musket.
Brian's post was about Blair saying Islamic radicalism was the greatest threat to peace.
Here it is in full.


Much as I dislike Tony Blair as someone who's caused as much aggravation as he's mitigated, however, I find myself agreeing with him on this statement:

"In significant and controversial intervention, the former Prime Minister suggested that, as a result of failures in Iraq and Afghanistan, governments in Europe and America had become "curiously reluctant to acknowledge" Islamic extremism."

I seem to remember taking a fair bit of flak on this forum for being a 'racist bigot' et al for pointing this out a couple of years ago.

The 'West' ignores this threat to our lifestyle at our peril. Until governments and institutions get 'unafraid' to call a spade a spade (no pun intended) and stop pussy-footing around when dealing with RADICAL Muslims and CRIMINAL Muslims, we are going to remain 'curiously reluctant' to acknowledge and deal with the threat.

In that statement I am referring only (NB - ONLY) to the law-breakers, inciting or carrying out attacks, grooming young girls etc etc, NOT the vast majority of peaceful and law-abiding folk of ANY religion, colour or creed.

It does seem that when the word 'Muslim' is added to the sentence, it suddenly all gets far more complicated for our government both central and local including Law Enforcement agencies.



OK, PC do-gooders brigade . . . your shout . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 17 May 14 - 03:58 AM

If anyone bothers to read the OP, they will see it isn't about Islamic radicalism at all. It is a juvenile attempt to goad rational people into defending Mr Khan from the corner shop so fools can say they don't care about terrorism.

Read the first fucking post.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 May 14 - 01:20 AM

Any comments about religious radicalism Steve?
(That is the subject of the thread)

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 May 14 - 08:04 PM

Well I don't know what you can call a religion that encourages cutting off the heads of those who refuse to convert

I'm no apologist for any religion, as is possibly known hereabouts, but I know of no religion that encourages cutting off the heads of those who refuse to convert. What I do know is that a few nutters professing to belong to certain religions might have such predilections. Similarly, the Catholic church does not encourage child molestation and institutional abuse, though a few nutters professing to be members of said church might like to either practise or cover up such abuse. Why, one such fellow of the latter tendency has just been made a saint!

I'm no apologist for cheap Chinese harps either, though, like with a lot of kids who went on to play proper ones later on, they sort of got me going.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 May 14 - 04:13 PM

The thread title is Islamic radicalism, so I would expect comments on examples that crop up daily.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: bobad
Date: 16 May 14 - 03:51 PM

"Hey Bobad! Any articles concerning the hate sermons from the pastors in Dumbfuckistan?"

So, you're trying to make an equivalence between some hate sermons which you haven't even provided an example of, and the execution of 600 people.....seriously?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 16 May 14 - 02:33 PM

You'd have thought that having started to populate the reply box. You might comment yourself ?

Is it just me or is it rather odd when people try to goad others into feeding their own prejudice rather than have the courage of their conviction and give their own take?

Mind you, I doubt it will be scintillating reading.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 May 14 - 01:52 PM

Kenya now the victim of indiscriminate killings by Islamic radicals based in Somalia.
Any comment?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 May 14 - 11:31 AM

Fundamentalists, but hardly radical in the context of the thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Musket
Date: 16 May 14 - 10:40 AM

Hey Bobad! Any articles concerning the hate sermons from the pastors in Dumbfuckistan?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: bobad
Date: 16 May 14 - 09:50 AM

Iran Accountability Week

This also marks the sixth anniversary of the imprisonment of Iran's Baha'i leadership, also known as the Yaran; an execution binge that has seen over 600 executions since the "moderate" Hassan Rouhani ascended to the Presidency in August 2013, and over 250 carried out in 2014 alone; and the continuing unjust imprisonment of more than 900 prisoners of conscience and political prisoners, including women, human rights defenders, ethnic and religious leaders, journalists, bloggers, students and trade union leaders — in short, the leaders of Iranian civil society — many under threat of execution.

During his 2013 election campaign, Rouhani explicitly promised to ensure "equality for all citizens without discrimination based on race, gender, or religion." Despite his campaign promises, the Iranian regime's campaign of incitement to hate against the Baha'i has continued unabated, including: the singling out of the Baha'i for special opprobrium and repression; the use of state media to dehumanize and demonize the Baha'i in the eyes of their fellow Iranians; the harassment of Baha'i children; the proliferation of personal and property assaults on members of the community; and the orchestration of militia and hate groups to intimidate and silence them. All of this has been accompanied by an ongoing culture of impunity, wherein no one has ever been arrested or prosecuted for such crimes.

Irwin Cotler: Criminalizing the Baha'i faith

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 May 14 - 02:09 AM

Steve, I fear that this article may not mark the end of this story just yet.
http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/may/14/inside-park-view-academy-religion-row-school-victim-of-success
" In short, on the evidence of a single day and chaperoned by school officials, it looked and felt much like any other state school in England or Wales."

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 May 14 - 01:55 AM

Steve, I have never, ever criticised Islam and I hope that the Birmingham story is a hoax.
There was no "breaking news" before. Just some individuals who thought it a hoax and some who did not.

This thread is about Islamic radicalism and if it is "the biggest threat to world peace", but that little group of Steve, Greg, Musket and Jim refuse to discuss it and keep trying to change the subject.

Any comment about the killing, kidnapping and converting of terrified school children?
Any comment about encouraging very young children to shoot Jews? ("all of them")
Any comment on the sentencing to death of a doctor for apostasy, after flogging her for adultery?
Any comment about the sectarian strife between Sunni and Shia and the industrial scale of killing?

I think it reasonable that the thread should be extended to include Christian and other radicalism, but let's keep it to religious radicalism.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: GUEST,Noel Battle
Date: 15 May 14 - 10:41 PM

Well I don't know what you can call a religion that encourages cutting off the heads of those who refuse to convert, if not a threat to the Kuristian USA and Europe.

But when it comes to playing a reel on a cheap Chinese diatonic Harmonica such people haven't a clue.

Or maybe I was not listening to the right Mulla?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: GUEST,michaelr
Date: 15 May 14 - 08:41 PM

So, what happened with the Gerry Adams investigation then?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 May 14 - 05:26 PM

Yeah, Keith, and Kenny Everett suggested that we bomb Russia. Just try to remember that it's Israel (or Bibi at least, using Hamas as his excuse for not sitting down) who won't sit down with Hamas. Ian Paisley used to say stuff like that about the IRA, and look at him now.


I note today a great article in the Guardian that, once and for all, blows out of the water that nine-day wonder of "Islamists" plotting a sinister takeover of Birmingham schools. Better take a look, Keith, as last time we discussed it you were in denial of the breaking news. As the sensible among us knew from the outset, it was a total bloody Islamophobic hoax. You must feel disappointed at the loss of that particular opportunity of painting Islam as The Great Threat To The Planet. Never mind, Bobad's having a good crack at it in this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Jeri
Date: 15 May 14 - 05:04 PM

Maybe we could talk about parts of Leviticus that tells the righteous what offenses they should kill people for. Then, we add common sense and realize we just don't do that shit any more. Those parts of the Bible are similar to the parts of the Quran Bobad quoted, and Muslim extremists are a little bit like the KKK. If anyone has ever actually known moderate Muslim people, they know they aren't any better or worse than moderate Christians or Jews. They're trying to live their lives as best they can, and most of us live in countries that believe they should be able to.

It's people who don't know any Muslims who can buy the propaganda about them.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 15 May 14 - 04:03 PM

Funny Bobad. I thought it was civilised behaviour and common decency that stops Muslims, Christians and rational people from what you were quoting.

Most Muslims I know, work with and call close friends tend to eat too much chocolate or watch crap on the telly. I'm not sure slavery and rape would occur to any of them.

There again I know quite a few Christians who wouldn't do the same, despite The Bible urging them to do so.

Tell me, as the criminals want everybody to think its their religion urging them on, are you purposely playing to their agenda or just a fool?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 May 14 - 03:33 PM

If you're not averse to it maybe we can meet up for a brew or two and duke out our differences at your local watering hole.

Actually, bobad, I'm not at all averse to it, but I'm afraid I'll have to decline. However, I DO appreciate and thank you for the invitation.
Sincerely. (believe it or not)

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: bobad
Date: 15 May 14 - 11:55 AM

Dr. Zakir Naik explains why Allah in his wisdom has made halal for muslims, sex with young male slaves and women captured in war. (Shariah Law).

Qur'an (33:50) - "O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those (slaves) whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee"

Qur'an (23:5-6) - "..who abstain from sex, except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess..."

Qur'an (4:24) - "And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess."


It is clear from these verses in the Quran that neither slavery nor sex with slaves was prohibited by Allah or his messneger Muhammad(pbuh). It is secular law that is preventing Muslims from keeping slaves and having sex with women captured in war.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYr8l1hkp0U

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Musket
Date: 15 May 14 - 11:30 AM

This is what happens when religion has political influence.

Disestablish the religious nonsense from UK parliamentary process.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 May 14 - 10:44 AM

AlJezeera??

Nothing but an Israeli propaganda machine… According to Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: bobad
Date: 15 May 14 - 08:34 AM

Sudan woman gets death sentence for apostasy

Judge orders Mariam Yahia Ibrahim Ishag to be hanged for apostasy and given 100 lashes for adultery, prompting protests.

Al Jazeera

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 15 May 14 - 03:21 AM

Dear Keith

The time and motion team have finished evaluating your performance and can now assist you in improving your efficiency.

In order to save time, have the following pro forma phrases ready on your clipboard to populate your posts, it will save you lots of time and effort.

"Do you deny or challenge these facts (insert any stereotyping snippet from the internet that supports your pompous opinions on anyone and anything outside of your narrow views.)"

"You can't because you are a liar."

"Please Mr Moderator. That liar insulted me."

"TC". (Saves me the effort of putting it.)

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 May 14 - 02:21 AM

Why do you say aimed at me Steve.
Only the child abuse story has been raised here and not by me.
In that discussion I said over and over again that religion played no part.

This thread is about radicalism not just religion.
Any comments about Boko or Hamas.

Steve, you said I compared Hamas to Nazis.(Mudcat Language thread)
They do not have the ability to kill large numbers of Jews, but have advocated it, including to their very young children.
Do you deny or challenge those facts?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: bobad
Date: 14 May 14 - 10:28 PM

Hey Greg I know you really love me but you're just too shy and modest to admit it. There's a good chance I'll be passing close to your hood this weekend as I traverse northern NY state on my way to Vermont. If you're not averse to it maybe we can meet up for a brew or two and duke out our differences at your local watering hole. Let me know.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 May 14 - 09:21 PM

Could have been aimed directly at Keith, eh?

The good folks at the Guardian wouldn't waste their time directing anything at FW Keith - or BooBad, or BSBruce for that matter.

An obvious exercise in futility.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 May 14 - 06:58 PM

Yes, rather good that Guardian piece, Dave. Could have been aimed directly at Keith, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Musket
Date: 14 May 14 - 02:27 PM

Have you noticed the hilarious aspect of this thread, which is about awful actions..

People admitting they are religious and then having a pop at religion.

You're all capable of judging your actions, and when you need the crutch of scripture to justify what you couldn't justify otherwise, the only difference is degree.

Decent church goers who don't judge other religions need an apology from those who see other religions as being inferior to their own particular cult.

Fight the good fight eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: bobad
Date: 14 May 14 - 02:22 PM

"This man fought against Muslims and threw a grenade in this place."

Muslim crucifixion

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Musket
Date: 14 May 14 - 01:43 PM

Ask Keith. He is a self styled expert on truth.

Possibly because he's a Christian or space cadet or whatever.

I'm just a liar so don't ask me.

By the way, Heckmondwyke Ragged a School are having a Muslim crucifixion event tomorrow night. Keith said he has some tickets if anyone wants them.

Or possibly I may have made that up.

I think....

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 May 14 - 01:37 PM

None of those stories have been taken up here.
Just real ones.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 May 14 - 01:20 PM

Interesting piece in the Guardian earlier this week

Muslim scare stories

Of course, it could be that the liberal press are under the influence of Islamic radicals while all the proper English papers tell you nothing but the truth :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 May 14 - 01:13 PM

Any comment on girls being forced into "white slavery" by "Christians"[sic], FW?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 May 14 - 11:08 AM

Any comment on those girls being forced to convert and change their names, or Hamas teaching pre-schoolers that killing Jews (all of them) is a good and fun activity?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: bobad
Date: 14 May 14 - 11:06 AM

"A bit like those who rattle on about Islam as if they know The Holy Q'ran"

The people in the links I provided are practicing Muslims who know the Quran very well.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Musket
Date: 14 May 14 - 10:36 AM

I wouldn't know. I'm not a Christian. A bit like those who rattle on about Islam as if they know The Holy Q'ran.

Another TC.

zzzzzzz

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: bobad
Date: 14 May 14 - 09:17 AM

So tell us about those Christians murdering their children in accordance with the Bible - I can't seem to find any commentary on that.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Musket
Date: 14 May 14 - 09:01 AM

Is murder of your children in accordance with the bible?

zzzzzzzzz

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: bobad
Date: 14 May 14 - 08:53 AM

It's a video Richard, do you not see it?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 May 14 - 08:35 AM

I can find not commentary there, bobad.