performing in churches ?

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Old Vermin
Date: 19 Oct 10 - 06:36 PM

Sang in a choir gig in a local Anglican church the other day, mostly backing singer and her band but some of our own songs first. Acoustics were really superb. Could sing into our own sound coming back at us in harmony. As for we basses getting our own voices echoed from the back wall after we'd stopped, it sounded pretty impressive.

Replying to the original poster, some of the choir are less than keen on churches as such - that said, at least one such took part. My impression is that most of us are sensibly relaxed one way or the other - just no point in agonising in either direction.

I can appreciate that one might possibly be a little less relaxed about it were it a more fundamentalist church or in a context where people observed keenly who went where.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 19 Oct 10 - 06:34 PM

I went to a Bill Staines concert (about three months back) which took place in a church (United) because the day before the concert the hall he was scheduled for became unavailable. Hadn't seen Bill in over 35 years, so I walked over and said, "Hi, Father Staines." He laughed and a few minutes later he began to sing. The acoustics were great--as was Bill. I liked the church setting because the sound was darned good. Sitting in a church doesn't make ya religious any more than standing in a garage makes ya a mechanic, fwiw. Bill wasn't pushing any agendas, and many folks who went were from other churches or atheists. We weren't there for Jesus--just so see and hear Mr Staines. A building is a building. Again, fwiw.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: dwditty
Date: 19 Oct 10 - 06:15 PM

hmmmm, Chris. This is indeed a slippery slope - does recognition of a birthday support creationism or evolution? One must be extra diligent in such matters...

All kidding aside, fiddle away and have a great time!

dw

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 19 Oct 10 - 05:40 PM

It's an excellent idea. Go for it.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: GUEST,Ebor_Fiddler
Date: 19 Oct 10 - 04:28 PM

I've only just now agreed to fiddle for a joint birthday party for our vicar and her Methodist Minister colleague. Come on anybody -why shouldn't I? (You'll no doubt tell me anyway!)


Chris

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 19 Oct 10 - 10:56 AM

Oops, I said 'Scroll down this page..." but the URL isn't there. Here it is:

http://www.kauffmancenter.org/TheBuilding/default.aspx

Now you can see what's cutting edge in Cowtown.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 07:28 PM

Many thanks, Tim, that's very helpful.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 05:44 PM

Scroll down this page to see a picture of Kansas City's amazing new Performing Arts Center. Yes, I agree that it looks like a piece of pasta. However, it is a very expensive piece of pasta - $400,000,000
worth.

It is being funded privately, although the City helped with the parking structure. It has been under construction for a long time, and two men have died working on it. (I've got to wonder whether the crazy shape had something to do with their rig tipping over.)

Anyhow, we the people of Kansas City are all being asked to pay for this thing, but there is no space there for a small concert. (By small I mean less than 1000 people.) Once there was provision for such things, but as soon as the big okay was given, the small venues were dropped from the plans. The wing with the small halls has been replaced by a grassy lawn, which will of course attract hoboes.

So, when we bring a band to town, where do we put on the concert? At a church. A church has what we need; seating, restrooms, parking, and a place to play - maybe even a stage - in the front.

The church people are friendly and co-operative. But the media, the suits and the government run the gamut from uninterested to contemptuous. They don't want to hear the music of their ancestors.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 05:38 PM

I've performed in several churches including St.Martin's in the Fields, which had the Folk Club in the crypt.
I've also done a gig in Well's Cathedral cloisters.

The acoustics can be marvelous, or you can have echo problems, but they are usually designed with acoustic performance in mind.

Ethically, I want to know where the proceeds are going and I may reject a gig because of that, but if it is for the upkeep of the building then that is going to preserve my heritage, regardless of the religion involved.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Tim Chesterton
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 05:32 PM

Sorry, should have continued to say that the diocesan offices might have information about which individual churches in their diocese rent their buildings out for concerts.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Tim Chesterton
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 04:55 PM

Sue:

If you are wanting to investigate Church of England churches that allow their facilities to be used for concerts, one place to start would be with the diocesan offices. The Church of England is divided into forty-four separate dioceses (the singular is 'diocese'). You can find a list of them with links to their web pages on this page. Clicking on the link for an individual diocese will lead you eventually to its web page, where you will usually find contact information for the diocesan office.

Tim

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 03:05 PM

When Bob and I first decided to do the reunion concert in October of 2007, the original idea was that it was to be a house concert. A friend of ours offered his house as the venue (often has house concerts there), but the living room was up a flight of stairs

Now, I'm currently getting around in a wheelchair and, as Lionel Barrymore (whose wheelchair didn't slow down his movie career as a character actor) said in a line in a "Dr. Kildare" movie way back, "You will note that this chair has neither wings nor an aeroplane motor! Of course, bring the patient downstairs!" To perform in this person's living room would involve having a couple of bully-boys lug me and my chair up a flight of stairs. I've had this routine done before, and a couple of times, I've damn near been dropped! Not keen on somersaulting down a flight of stairs and having my wheelchair land on top of me (I don't bounce like I used to), I asked my wife, Barbara to check it out. She did, and vetoed it because of the configuration of the stairs.

So. Alternative venue. I had gone to a number of concerts at Central Lutheran Church (complete with easy wheelchair access). One, an early music singing group, who included a few songs from D'Urfey's "Pills to Purge Melancholy," from which Ed McCurdy got most of the songs he recorded on his "Dalliance" series. No problem. Another by a lute duet. Still others by singers and small ensembles of various kinds.

I have also attended many concerts at other churches. Without being sermonized or feeling that I was sanctioning or supporting the doctrines of the churches these concerts were held in. They were buildings, almost all with excellent acoustics, generally with no need for amplification.

I was highly impressed with the acoustics of Central Lutheran Church. High ceiling, a bit of reverb, but not excessive. The church has the characteristic of making a twelve or fifteen voice choir sound as rich and full as a much larger choir. I had long wanted to sing there.

In addition, the house concert venue would have severely limited the possible size of the audience. Central Lutheran Church is a small church compared to many, but it has a capacity of 200. And further, Barbara and I are both members of the church.

[At this point, I will not go into my religious beliefs or lack thereof, but I am impressed by the mission the church has chosen for itself. Members do not accost you on the street and try to save your soul, nor do they come and ring your doorbell. It is a liberal church, and is deeply involved in such things as free meals (no, you don't have to listen to a sermon to get a free meal) and finding low-cost housing for low income and homeless folks. And there are many other programs that the church sponsors, including Alternatives to Violence workshops in nearby prisons, and it is the national headquarters of the Lutheran Peace Fellowship. Belonging to this church allows Barbara and me to maximize our efforts along these lines.]

Another advantage of using this church was it's central location on Seattle's Capitol Hill, complete with free parking lot next door, and easy to get to by bus.

Yet another was that since Barbara and I are members, we got to use the church without charge (along with a bit of free advertising in the form of a notice of the concert in the church's monthly newsletter and a mention in that Sunday's bulletin. Some members of the congregation did come, and they paid, along with everyone else.

We also got free use of the parish house next door for a reception after the concert. Got a chance to become reacquainted with a number of old friends I hadn't seen for years.

Despite the usual church decor in the form of a cross behind the altar (where we sang) and a stained glass window depicting of Jesus (typical Renaissance image) in a gesture of blessing, I don't think our singing there resulted in anyone's conversion—with the except for one young man who said afterward that he had suddenly gaining a strong interest in traditional folk songs.

And it was only right that I slip a small gratuity to the custodian for staying over and tidying up after the concert.

But the church did not receive a single dime because of our performance that afternoon. As I said, we had the use of the church and the parish house at no cost—and no profit to the church.

To some extent, I can see where Bob's misgivings come from. As I understand it, he had some pretty unpleasant encounters early on with the more hard-charging, heavy-duty, industrial-strength Pentecostal-type religious beliefs (it's a mortal sin to have fun, like, say, going to a movie with all the other kids), so with that background, I certainly don't blame him for getting totally turned off. But then, I shouldn't try to speak for Bob. He is obviously quite capable of speaking for himself.

There ARE churches that I would not perform in because of the nature of the minister, the congregation, and the interpretation of religion promulgated there. Especially if they tried to insert a "commercial" before, during, or after my performance. However, I have never felt that by attending a concert, or for that matter, singing a concert in a church—as long as there was no interference or input from the church itself into the program—was in any way supporting the theology and activities of that particular church

It's a building, which because of it's theater-like layout, can easily be used as a concert hall. And churches generally have quite good acoustics.

Don Firth

P. S. Just an aside. While attending music classes at the Cornish School of the Arts (a sort of conservatory in Seattle) in the early 1960s, one of the profs was a church organist, and he took the class out to the large Episcopal Church where he plays for Sunday services. Bloody big pipe organ, organ pipes ranging from smaller than a penny-whistle to as big as a tree trunk. Prof. Cowell demonstrated various aspects of the organ, the bank of manuals (keyboards), pedals (deep bass notes), stops, double stops, different effects. Most impressive!

We were standing around the organ console, a forest of pipes on either side of us, when Prof. Cowell launched into Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D minor. OY!!

Professor Cowell mentioned afterward that while playing "the music of God," and with all that brute power at his or her fingertips, all too often the organist tends to forget who is Whom!!

He also mentioned that many well-known organists tend to have impressive-sounding names. Such as E. Power Biggs!

One of the students asked, "What does the 'E' stand for?"

Came the inevitable voice from the back of the class:   "Enormous?"

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 02:32 PM

As in e-PISC-opalian. (If "Pisky" isn't in the Mudcat Scots glossary, it ought to be).

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: meself
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 01:57 PM

A "Pisky" church?

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 01:36 PM

As an Orthodox Jew I am forbidden to enter a church for any purpose whatsoever.

which, given that the Jewish Scriptures and most of their commentaries predate the existence of churches, strikes me as pretty weird. How did the prohibition start?


This ban also extends to any church affiliated facilities such as a Catholic high school gymnasium or auditorium where crucifixes or statues of the Virgin Mary are prominently displayed.

I once went on a computer training course at a centre which once been a posh Catholic school. Their machine room was the former chapel, and the plaster statues were still there looking over the mainframes. Seemed rather fitting.


It falls under the prohibition of idolatry.

It shouldn't, because you can be in the same building/city/universe as an idol without worshipping it.


You mention that you are a pastor of an Anglican church. Do you think it's possible that there are some people in your community that couldn't bring themselves to go through your doors?

The last time I encountered that one in Scotland, it was a Presbyterian art history student who couldn't bring herself to go through the door of a Pisky church to look at its architecture.


The things that give me the creeps are military shrines. I'm not going to make a point of pissing on them like the woman who made the news a few weeks ago, but as far as I'm concerned they're no less suitable objects to be pissed on than any other piece of outdoor masonry, and I am certainly not about to do anything ever which conveys any indication of public respect towards them. There are usually buskers beside the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier in Edinburgh who completely ignore the thing. Good for them.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 12:33 PM

Thanks CS and Tim. But was wondering about arranging something from afar - maybe do a little church tour? so a list of concert-friendly churches would be useful. Thought there might be such a thing somewhere.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: GUEST,Phil B
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 12:30 PM

Currently on tour in churchs and cathedrals. They're just venues and every village/town/city has one.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Tim Chesterton
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 11:48 AM

As the pastor of a church (in Canada, not in the UK) I can say that whenever we get requests from people who want to rent our facility to hold concerts, we say 'yes' (as long as the timing doesn't conflict with our own events).

Sue, if you want to hold a concert in a particular church, just ask.

Tim

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 11:12 AM

"Does anyone know how I can find a list of churches in the UK that hold performance nights?"

Sue, I can't answer that question. But you often get churches in towns that hold free afternoon concerts, usually more classical stuff. But I have wondered whether any folk singers or musicians have done anything like that?

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Deckman
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 11:08 AM

The last time I had "fun" in a church, I was 14, and she was 15! (bad bad bob)

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 10:53 AM

"In all honesty, I feel that if I enter a "church", I am giving validation to that faith/sect/denomination,cult/congregation"

Absolute rubbish - it's about having fun.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: greg stephens
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 04:54 AM

Well my partner and I just did a song at her brother's wedding. It was in a church whose bel;iefs I don't subscibe to. I imagine the vast majority of the guests come into the same category. So what? We were there to celebrate two people getting married, not to pass judgement on ther religious practises. Anybody who would refuse to sing in those circumstances(or refuse to attend for that matter) needs to have a pretty hard look at their beliefs.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 04:43 AM

We do barn dances in our local church. Its a lovely shape and they screen off the alter. The group who turn up are a real community, like a large family. When I call a dance its interesting to note that anyone who wants to dance is included. Teenage boys will dance with teenage boys - and there is no agenda other than they want to join in.

The last time we did one there were no lights over the band area as the dramatic group had just finished a performance. This was solved by the vic going to get his mothers standard lamp.

If I was religious I could see the attraction of belonging to a group like this.
FloraG

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Janie
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 09:04 PM

This is a bit of thread-drift, hope you will forgive it, Bob.

Suegorgeous, 8 or so years ago when the FSGW Getaway was held at Camp Ramblewood, my sister and I skipped some Saturday morning workshops to explore the area and spend some time together. We drove a few miles to Port Deposit, MD. It is a struggling and historic village on the fall-line of the Susquehanna River. We walked up to a lovely Methodist Church where there were a few people working on the grounds, and were invited to take tour of the building by the pastor. The entire interior of the building was beautiful wood, and when he led us to the sanctuary, which features a Steere organ, we entered an accoustical dream. He told us about the John Steere organ the church hosted, and seemed delighted to have us try out the accoustics by singing a couple of lines from a couple of songs.

I ain't no musician (though Sister is), and the accoustics made me sound like a folk diva.

At that time, according to the pastor, the membership of the church numbered 90 souls, not nearly enough to keep the place going financially. I just checked the website and now the membership is down to 39. I had been curious and concerned about how the building had fared during flooding a few years ago. Apparently it did survive.

May music, be it secular or "sacred" continue to have the opportunity to resound in such spaces.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Wesley S
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 07:48 PM

... if I willingly walk into a church am not I giving tacit approval to that church's activities? bob

If you take a tour of the White House are you supporting the policies of the President? The real question I would have to ask myself is where are the proceeds of the concert going? If it's in the performers and promoters pockets it's one thing. If the proceeds go toward supporting the programs and activities of the church involved that's something else alltogether. IF those activites upset you. My old church had regular concerts that supported a non-denominational food bank.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 07:15 PM

I performed in a couple of churches a few weeks ago, and now I'm hooked - the acoustics were amazing, and it was a wonderful experience. I want to do more!

Does anyone know how I can find a list of churches in the UK that hold performance nights? I've tried googling, but not got very far.

Thanks.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Alan Day
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 05:55 PM

I have just picked up my hat and coat and I am leaving this one.
Al

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Deckman
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 05:49 PM

NOPE!

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Janie
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 05:36 PM

Bob,

I think it unlikely I would ever consider entering a church any kind of endorsement of a Church, and I find it difficult to believe anyone would think so.    I echo, however, those who have already said that if you are not comfortable with it, then don't.

I'm wondering - if you were vacationing in a city with a cathedral, synagogue, mosque, buddhist temple, etc. that was noted for it's architecture, historical significance or accoustics, would you eschew touring it?

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Deckman
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 05:23 PM

YEP ... you got it right ... it's that damned loose screw again! bob

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: meself
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 04:11 PM

Bob - If I may so, you seem a little confused: on the one hand, you don't want to play in churches for fear of seeming to condone various religious outlooks; on the other hand, you are peeved about having been barred from playing in a chapel on the basis that your music would not condone the religious outlook connected with that chapel. It seems to me that the people who barred you share your take on the situation: they don't feel that music that doesn't condone their religion belongs in their chapel; your initial post would indicate that you would feel the same way. I don't understand why you feel it's okay for you to refuse to play in their sacred space, but wrong for them to refuse to let you play in their sacred space ... ?

Am I missing something (has that loose screw finally fallen out)?

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 02:25 PM

I've enjoyed evensongs in cathedrals, and folk in pubs, halls, and outdoor venues. I'd nationalise the churches of England so they would not need to host secular concerts for upkeep, etc., funds.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 01:42 PM

As an Orthodox Jew I am forbidden to enter a church for any purpose whatsoever. The first 10 years that I was eligible to vote I did not because the polling place was in the basement of a church. When the politicians finally realized how many votes they were losing from the Jewish community because of this they finally took the voting machines out of the church and put them in the local public school where they belong. Voter registration immediately tripled after this was done.

As president of the Borderline Folk Music Club, I had a clause inserted into our bylaws stating that none of our concerts or other functions can ever be held in a church even if it were given to us free of charge. I want to be able to attend all of my club's functions and out of respect to me this policy has remained in effect for the past 6 years even though the vast majority of the members are not orthodox and many not even Jewish.

This ban also extends to any church affiliated facilities such as a Catholic high school gymnasium or auditorium where crucifixes or statues of the Virgin Mary are prominently displayed. It falls under the prohibition of idolatry.

Our local hospital, Good Samaritan in Suffern, either covers up or removes the crucifixes from any rooms that are being occupied by Jewish patients. They really go out of their way to acommodate us.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 12:30 PM

"if I willingly walk into a church am not I giving tacit approval to that church's activities?"

Your personal threshold is the one that counts in making your choices. I dislike purchasing dog food at a particular large chain, but when the manufacturer went through last year re-branding there were supply problems at smaller retailers--the manufacturer was taking care of the "best" wholesale customer first, much to the annoyance of this retail customer. But rather than risk the output that can result from sudden diet changes, I bought from the big retailer I dislike.

You'd have to tell me, did I give tacit approval to that location or chain? My personal threshold prioritized feeding the dogs with consistent food over being careful to "vote with my money." Similarly, as has been said many ways, you have to prioritize your wish to support particular performers (including or excluding their choice of venue) in relation to your views about churches and/or religious organizations. Your choice whether you do so case by case or with a blanket decision with[out] exceptions.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 12:04 PM

If there weren't churches willing to let other organizations use their facilities, there wouldn't be a lot of folk music societies. We've played many concerts in churches of all brands for concert series, and not been preached at. I've also played for a festival that had tobacco company sponsorship. I don't encourage smoking, no one tried to make me light up, either. I also still cashed the check.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Alan Day
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 11:45 AM

Firstly I see no problems at all in playing in a Church,I can play a few hymns on my concertina and the Salvation Army used to have bands playing religious music.Surely it is how the music is received by the congregation that is the important factor.
Playing music in Church can offer problems however with sound, if it is an old church. I have heard a number of recordings recorded in church and the high ceilings create an echo, this is fantastic for slow pieces but with faster numbers the echo catches up with the music and creates a jumbled sound. Rather like playing two recordings of the same piece of music one about five seconds after the other. Some like this effect and with slow numbers it can be very moving, but is annoying to me after a short period of time.
Al

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: squeezeboxhp
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 09:26 AM

i have performed with a longsword team in quite a few churches and the only ptoblem is the churches with tiled floors at the front end make dancing in iron shod clogs both slippy and noisy, the accoustics make the melodeon sound great though.
i have also played ceilidh's in variouis denominations churches but the oddest was the Mormon church who prayed that the band would be good before we started (we were good despite the orange juice only rule)
so Bob the answer is if you don't feel happy with it don't do it
Ken

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 08:19 AM

Saw Show of Hands in a church this week - their current tour is entirely in churches in the UK. One thing you don't need in a church is a reverb unit!!!

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Fidjit
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 05:21 AM

Oh Yes.
And on one solo Gig I did Sid Kippers, "Happy Clappy Chappy"
That went down quite well.

Chas

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Fidjit
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 05:19 AM

We Spellmän (Musicians) do lots of Churches here in Sweden. They even allow the Devils instruments in them (Fiddles and Melodeons) Also Folk dance groups too. And all sorts of others, Bluegrass, Opera. Etc. Etc. Can be quite lucrative too. And there's the added bonus of good acoustics. A group I play with recorded our CD in a Church.

I personally turn off when they do the religions bit, but that's me.

The audience is always appreciative and as an artist that, and the exposure is what we want.

Chas

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Tim Chesterton
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 04:59 AM

Bob - yes, by all means, I know there are some people in our community who wouldn't couldn't bring themselves to go through our doors, for all sorts of reasons.

For several years I organised a fundraising concert for Habitat for Humanity, with musicians of all faiths and none playing their music for a good cause. I have good relationships with many people in the folk music community in our city (of which, of course, I am a part), and they were happy to help out. Some didn't have a problem performing in a church, others told me that it was a psychological barrier to get across when they first arrived. To me that was part of the benefit of the event - helping people on all sides have the courage to start crossing barriers.

I understand that we have some beliefs about God and Jesus that many people in the folk music community don't share; that's fair enough (and it works the other way too!). But when I think of how we try to live out those beliefs in our church - trying to help the poor and needy, trying to be a community that welcomes strangers, learning to love our enemies and be peacemakers etc. etc. - well, I think in many ways it's very compatible with the ethos of folk music.

But I appreciate your sharing your thoughts, and would be glad to hear any ideas you might have about how we can build better bridges, while continuing to live out our respective beliefs with integrity.

Tim

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 02:59 AM

The wintertime monthly concerts we put on are held in a Lutheran church because #1, it is just about the right size for our audiences (with overflow, about 140 people), #2, it's a good price ($100.) #3. it has great acoustics- most often we don't use a sound system; #4. the church people give us a key and we go in and set up, and return it to how we found it; #5. none of the church administrators are ever there, before, during or after.

Before we started hiring this hall, we made a donation to the Episcopalian church that one of the co-founders belonged to. We always donated at least 2/3 of what we took in, and when the church burnt down (we weren't there:) we donated our entire remaining kitty to them, about $2500.

That said, I still don'[t like having the concerts in a church. It seems to me that a good portion of a potential audience won't step foot inside a church and also I've had people ask me if it's a 'religious' concert, simply because it is a church.

But this is Juneau- and the churches are very inclusive; they make noises about 'serving the community'.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: open mike
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 02:32 AM

presbyterians used to have grape juice for communion...i always felt there was somthing left out,,,,after all the verse does not state "the grape juice is my blood" welshe's juice was happy about it though..

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: dwditty
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 02:30 AM

Lots of thoughtful comments here, but I still think this is a silly thread. By all means, Deckman, if you are not comfortable walking through the doors of a church, don't. If performers want to schedule a concert in a church, that is their perogative, regardless of what you think they should or shouldn't do. (your statement: Performers should consider,carefully, the social implications of performing in a "church.")

People are certainly entitled to their own opinions, especially when those opinions have no impact on what someone else may think or do. One of the big problems we have today occurs when people have one opinion and think others should follow suit. I don't get what possible objection you could have to people gathering to hear a performance in a church while you sit at home. How have they affected you?

dw

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: GUEST,mg`
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 01:02 AM

We sang all sorts of nonspiritual music in that church. I think it is actually a chapel. I think people were somewhat restrained but not overly. Why would they assign a workshop there if you were only supposed to sing spiritual songs? I have been to that camp for years and never heard that. Anyway, who would go to a workshop of Catholic songs? Well someone I suppose.

And there is wine if you know where to look in Catholic churches. Unless of course it has been transubstantiated. mg

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Deckman
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 12:44 AM

Joe ... As you know, I'm a participant and teacher at "Rainy Camp", in Carnation, Washington. This is an annual get-a-way for us folkies up here. The event is held at an old "Boy Scout Camp" ... which has christian implications. As such, it consists of various buildings: bunk houses, the mess hall, the main meeting hall, and the chapel.

Last year, I was sheduled to teach my "Performing Skills" workshop in the Chapel building. I went in early, started setting up the chairs, getting ready for the class, when I was informed that I couldn't teach my class in that building because ... and I quote ... "This building is a holy place and must be reserved for spiritual music."

I almost left the campground, but I moved to another building and taught the class ... fool that I was!

My point is this ... as Debra Cowen implied earlier ... being/singing/teaching/performing ... in a "church" has implications that can't be ignored.

I'm still somewhat ashamed of myself for NOT making a fuss and leaving the campground. I compromised my religion. bob

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Deckman
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 12:28 AM

Hmmm ? I appreciate your thoughtful answer. You mention that you are a pastor of Anglican church. Do you think it's possible that there are some people in your community that couldn't bring themselves to go through your doors?

My point is simply this: Performers should consider,carefully, the social implications of performing in a "church." bob

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 12:25 AM

I used to go to a gospel sing at a 150-yr-old, wooden evangelical church in Folsom, California. Most of the people singing were folkie musicians, not religious people. It was a most perfect venue for such a gathering.

And yes, the food was good.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Tim Chesterton
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 12:04 AM

I'm actually the pastor of a church (Anglican), and I have played traditional folk music in pubs in which I'm sure a lot of people get drunk (which I don't want to endorse, although I'm not by any means a teetotaller). Should I stay away from the pub because of that? Or should I be happy that the pub gives me the opportunity to play for people who otherwise wouldn't hear my music? I have played music in coffee shops in which I know the reason the owner wanted live music was so that he could sell more coffee and treats. If there wasn't a benefit to the business owner they wouldn't be hosting live music.

We rent our church out from time to time for musical events (mainly piano recitals); the acoustics are pretty good and we seat about a hundred. We charge a minimal rate and in return for that the performers don't expect us to clear all the hymn books and prayer books out of our pews. Yes, there's a cross on the wall at the front; it's kind of attached, and we couldn't remove it without doing damage to the wall! But when we rent the facility out to someone we don't do it to try to convert them (although we are trying to build good relations with the community, just as the coffee shop owners are).

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Deckman
Date: 16 Oct 10 - 11:54 PM

MARY ... "SPIRTITUAL CONTAMINATION" ! Perfect ... I love it ... that's it ... I don't want to contaminate my spirit by walking in those doors. bob