BS: So they want a TOTAL gov. shutdown...

Subject: RE: BS: So they want a TOTAL gov. shutdown...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Feb 11 - 06:02 PM

Meanwhile, Chongo has voluntarily cut his daily hard liquor ration by almost a third to show restraint, but do you hear about that on the "News"? No! That's because the fat cats who own the media don't want Chongo to get elected and clean things up in this country!

Subject: RE: BS: So they want a TOTAL gov. shutdown...
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Feb 11 - 05:30 PM

Oh, yeah... The government has done shit and that's the problem... They continue to give away $30B a year to millionaire agri-businessmen who work from high rise offices... They continue to give away $10B a year to BIG OIL... They are currently giving another $100B to defense contractors to make obsolete military hardware that Republican Robet Gates says he doesn't need or want...

BTW, the House Repubs didn't cut one dollar out of the $60,000,000,000 they cut... Not one dollar!!!

But back to the role of government... Most of the money that goes out goes to Social Security and Medicare, two programs that people have paid and continue to pay into... Problem is that for the last 30 years that money gets raided for wars and other subsidies to millionaires...

Those, in my opinion are worthwhile programs... So is Planned Parenthood... Medicaid is, as well... Without them our poverty artes would be in the 30% for seniors and the world would be looking at US as some 3rd World country...

So, if the Repubs want to pull another bonehead boner like they did in '96 then I'd say that it will be to their detriment...

Some folks here hate the government but these same folks will be lookin' for it to help them when they're in need and no one is left to help...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: So they want a TOTAL gov. shutdown...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Feb 11 - 04:11 PM

This newsflash just came out! Chongo says that he is willing to drink a bottle less of whisky a day as an austerity measure during these tough financial times...and to set a good example for others to follow, namely those in Washington.

Restraint, people! Restraint!

Subject: RE: BS: So they want a TOTAL gov. shutdown...
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Feb 11 - 03:20 PM

And the last time got Clinton re-elected.

Subject: RE: BS: So they want a TOTAL gov. shutdown...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Feb 11 - 02:48 PM

Partial, temporary appropriations will keep the government ticking, but the end result will be that certain programs- some essential to health and welfare- will lose out.

Not the first time this situation has arisen.

Subject: RE: BS: So they want a TOTAL gov. shutdown...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Feb 11 - 02:39 PM

So they want a TOTAL gov. shutdown...

Good!!!! ...let the people fix it. Government, as of recent hasn't done shit, except undo what the PEOPLE have done...including electing them to rip us off further!
It seems that Government is getting involved with every aspect of our lives, EXCEPT that which the Constitution designates government to to...and violating the limits, that the Constitution forbids them to do!!...But what the hell, political animals don't give a shit about the boundaries set forth in our laws, except how to bend them out of any recognizable shape, to further their delusions!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: So they want a TOTAL gov. shutdown...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Feb 11 - 07:11 PM

There! Finally. It took me 3 separate attempts with "copy and paste" and re-opening the damned thread from the start to get that last post of mine to actually go through. I don't know what the problem is at Mudcat Central, but I wish they'd fix it....

Subject: RE: BS: So they want a TOTAL gov. shutdown...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Feb 11 - 07:10 PM

That entirely depends on which specific Democrat or Republican you talk to, Bobert...and about what. There are some very intelligent people on both sides of that divide...though I agree that when it comes to certain issues...such as blind, jingoistic patriotism and support of war...the Republicans have more people onside for something like that, and that does indicate a certain ingrained degree of stupidity. ;-)

But what always keeps me from underestimating the intelligence of the Right is people like Canada's Barbara Amiel, long a spokesperson for the extreme Right in Canada. She's very smart, sharp as a tack, extremely articulate, downright brilliant in fact. And she's very often wrong. ;-) (in my opinion) The thing is, you see, she's defending certain things in society that she sees as being under threat...and in some cases she is defending them rightly...it's just that I don't agree with her as to what the best remedy might be to fix the situation. She is an unapologetic believer in the power of capitalism to fix everything. I'm not. She also tends to side with the powerful, and I do not. It's a matter of instinctively trusting very different paradyms.

But she is NOT stupid. Hell, no.

Subject: RE: BS: So they want a TOTAL gov. shutdown...
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Feb 11 - 06:58 PM

The divisions are down the IQ line, LH... The Repubs are south of a 100 and the Dems are north...

Kinda like the Mason-Dixon Lne...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: So they want a TOTAL gov. shutdown...
From: mousethief
Date: 19 Feb 11 - 06:54 PM

Here's my question: where was the negotiating process that the Wisconsin unions walked away from that gave rise to the legislation to abolish them? When did this negotiating take place? When was a stalemate declared?

Think carefully. Walker was inaugurated on January 3 of this year.

How can you say somebody has refused to do something when they were never asked to?

Subject: RE: BS: So they want a TOTAL gov. shutdown...
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Feb 11 - 03:09 PM

You could start a thread to discuss that topic (Wisconsin), pdq.
(I have a hard time believing there isn't one already, but I have to get outta here and can't look.)

Subject: RE: BS: So they want a TOTAL gov. shutdown...
From: pdq
Date: 19 Feb 11 - 03:01 PM

The proposal (in the form of a legislative bill) will remove pension, medical and dental plans from the collective bargaining rights of the state workers and leave salary negotiating rights, working conditions (etc) intact. The union representation will not be changed at all.

Right now, Wisconsin public employees have no contract at all because the last governor and state reps punted, leaving the hard decisions to the new governor and the new reps, mostly Republicans.

Subject: RE: BS: So they want a TOTAL gov. shutdown...
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Feb 11 - 02:46 PM

pdq I think that Wisconsin public sorkers are willing to accept donating 50% of pension costs but they are unwilling to have their unions abolished.

Subject: RE: BS: So they want a TOTAL gov. shutdown...
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Feb 11 - 01:56 PM

I can't help but think the Repubs shoulda watched more West Wing. Shut it down, make sure the people who are capable of understanding know WHY it happened'

The West Wing episode "Shutdown", Original Airdate 11-19-03:

A disastrous fiscal crisis looms when the Federal government is shut down after the President (Martin Sheen) engages in a war of wills between the powerful G.O.P. House Speaker (Steven Culp) over an extra two percent in budget reductions that would trim many of Bartlet's key social programs -- and the Democrats are blamed because of opinion polls. As Leo (John Spencer), Josh (Bradley Whitford) and Toby (Richard Schiff) send everyone home, they remain uneasy as the President refuses to compromise -- until he arrives on a bold plan to personally and publicly challenge the Republicans in the halls of the Capitol.

Subject: RE: BS: So they want a TOTAL gov. shutdown...
From: pdq
Date: 19 Feb 11 - 01:46 PM

The public employees in Wisconsin contribute an average of 1/2 of 1% to their pension system.

They are being asked to contribute 5.8% in the future. What they have now is not being reduced at all.

Private citizens often have to pay 100% th their private pension and worry about protecting their hard-earned money from tax liability.

The news media coverage is making it look like the pro-union revolt in Poland a few years ago. They have not given the average citizen a single fact to work with.

Subject: RE: BS: So they want a TOTAL gov. shutdown...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Feb 11 - 01:31 PM

Seems to me like the inevitable result of a political system that is based upon division...and that has at the same time fallen into massive corruption at the top levels of both political parties, the banks, the business community, and the courts.

The festering divisions in the public that are caused by party politics (and that's why Jefferson warned against forming political parties)...can be managed in a fairly civil fashion as long as a society doesn't become too corrupt. But when the parties and the whole system become deeply corrupt, then it can't be managed in a civil fashion any longer.

And that's what you're seeing.

I wouldn't give a wooden nickel for the value of either the Democratic or the Republican parties...or for anything they say. They're merely tools of their rich backers, and everything they say when campaigning is merely a strategy to get elected and continue being funded by their rich backers.

Is one of them worse than the other? Yeah! The Republicans are worse. ;-D But ask me this: Do I want to choose between Al Capone and Lucky Luciano when I go to the polls?

No. I don't call that a real choice. And that's what you've got right now, a choice between Al Capone and Lucky Luciano.

Subject: RE: BS: So they want a TOTAL gov. shutdown...
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Feb 11 - 01:04 PM

Here's the real deal here and folks had better get their heads wrap-ped around this... The country is in civil war and more bullets will fly before it's over...

I hate if but, hey, we have a broken government and no one seems to have the courage to offer to fix it...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: So they want a TOTAL gov. shutdown...
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Feb 11 - 11:39 AM

The Republicans are filling the stopgap funding bill with amendments that the Senate probably can't bear to choke down, and that Obama can't sign. THEN they blame the Democrats for failing to pass needed legislation.

They just may achieve a shut-down as the parties play the world's most expensive game of 'chicken'.

Subject: RE: BS: So they want a TOTAL gov. shutdown...
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Feb 11 - 11:02 AM

Come to think of it the Gold market could also be manipulated by Congress not raising the debt limit to guarantee that the US will pay its debts.

The gold market this March is going to break records,If you have any, it is still a good idea to sell at what looks like a peak after a gov shut down.

Why let Ropert Murdoch be the only one to gain.

Subject: RE: BS: So they want a TOTAL gov. shutdown...
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Feb 11 - 10:35 AM

It is such a strange coincidence that there are many celebrations of the Confederacy going on in the south as all this stuff is going on.
I suggest you look at what Bill Mahre had to say about that yesterday.

Imagine the day after the extended goverment shut down at the National ZOO.

Children looking at dead fish, dead birds, dead animals. except for some primates and elephants.

A total shut down is an entirely diffent beast.

Republican response "we saved 2 Billion dollars"

Democratic response "We lost our Union"

Subject: BS: So they want a TOTAL gov. shutdown...
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Feb 11 - 10:27 AM

The Republicans and mr T partiers ate talking about government shut downs even when they are saying that they are not talking about gov shut downs. Their half hatched plan will be like the movie where a man cuts off his own arm. So far the plan is to cut one hand off and then the other. As you can see the plan is flawed.

The house, controlled by republican,s have not passed a continuing resolution for America to keep running. The CR we are currently functioning under is a result of never passing LAST year's budget of 2010. Now they are balking at the 2012 budget and hell bent to show America that they can save money and force a shut down.

Thing is...the last shut down was only a 80% shut down. IF they go for a total shut down just because they want tough language to reach the ears of theri base, this shut down will look entirely different than last time. A total shut down means that no one will watch the boiler and buildings like museums and the treasury building could blow up, it means that none of the animals that require daily feeding and watering will survive, it means that emergency responders on a federal level will all be home watching March madness...

So what are republicans up to???
I'll tell you.

Republicans are playing a hand of poker held by Republican governors who one after another will jam through laws to abolish public worker unions across the country,   while the federal government is supposedly asleep. The machine to pull this off has been prepping for the event for over a year. Glen Beck has demonized unions and leaders sufficiently, FOX news barely covers the Wisconsin demonstrations and when they do they sound like Mubarak telling the children to go home and for their parents to make them behave.

All the new republican and tea congress people are inexperienced and have even more inexperienced staff who have NO IDEA what really needs to be done to keep the country running. They have less idea how to shut it down.


NOW listen up... all those people on FOX who have been selling GOLD are going to make a fortune when the price spikes after the sut down is announced. They will let the price rise for up to a week or more and then seel it all just before they think the price can go no higher and then allow the government to be resuscitated...

But what if they waited too long... No worry, they think their gold could go higher to 2400 bucks and ounce.

Last week the New York Stock Exchange stopped breathing and died.
It was bought by a German corporation. The new name is not announced but new rules are even more secret. They will claim that they are not subject to every American regulation, we are German!





So if a TOTAL shut down happens it will leave out the critical employees that kept the government alive last time but not this time.

Secondly the GOLD RUSH to hold...sell...start government… up buy again when the price drops - and then repeat the process if possible

Fox news will ignore the real hardships,

Unions will get busted in at least 3 States

And Obama will be blamed for sitting by and letting this happen.

The resulting demonstrations will be characterized as chaos by greedy workers who need to sacrifice for the country.

Democrats keep saying that the republicans are going to cut their own hand off if they shut down the government, what could they possibly be up to.

MY Answer is that they will make money hand over fist in the Gold market, abolish many state unions, and throw red meat to the base for Smiting Goliath and shutting down Obama's government.





_______________________________________________________________________
I will digress into less likely events so it is best to focus on the ideas above this line.... You think MSNBC and npr will cover the story correctly but Comcast is an ultra conservative Corp that is as much wall st ans a media company. They could fire Rachael and Ed. Npr is expected to get defunded and who knows...it is pretty easy to sabotage. Their towers are already quirky. National Guards will be called up to attack union demosnstrations. BEck will say, "See they are just like like those socialist muslims in Tunisia. Oh lord Obama is the anti christ etc" Deaths will ensue and right wing gun nuts will come the rescue and and take pot shots at protestors.
It will be a real deadly mess. In an Emergency Obama could disband Congress, which the republicans would calim was the act of a dictator... then worse things happen I don;t want to talk about.