BS: The Republican Default Crises

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 10:14 PM

This just in... Apple has $77B on hand...

The U.S. Treasury??? $74B...

Ouch... The 20 tax cuts we have given the rich since 1955 are taking a toll...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 10:05 PM

Why did the war end the Great Depression, pdq???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: pdq
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 10:02 PM

Fact: The Great Depression ended on December 7th, 1941 with the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.

The sleeping giant awoke and everybody got focused on the same goal.

It could happen again, but very unlikely.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 10:02 PM

So, pdq, WW II was the ultimate case of Keynesian economics!!!

So, why is it some misguided idea now...

No, don't answer that...

It isn't!!!

We haven't hardly given it a chance to work... Economists told *US* to put $1TPlus into the economy... The way we did it in WW II... We put $300B in and another $400B in tax cuts, half of which didn't get spent but went in the black hole of the rich...

No, Keynesian economics didn't get an honest chance... It was a set up to fail so the right wing could say, "It doesn't work"...

That is reality...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 09:55 PM

Yes, it does, LH...

We just don't have the political courage to do it...

Think about it this way... WW II produced very little consumer goods for Americans... It produced a lot of stuff that blew the heck up???

Now, if you take the same courage and desire and put that effort and those resources to things like sustainable energy, planet friendly housing, high speed rail, planned work-live-play communities then we could stay busy for decades created a world where humans live in harmony with the planet...

It's about will, not wars... We have been in endless wars since WW II and that modle just saps resources and lives...

In the words of the late, great Waylon Jennings, "We need a change"...

I mean, a real one and that is going to involved a complete change in the way we think, the way we solve problems, the way we live and it's going to take people of courage to insist on it...

But it isn't impossible... It is very possible and I would argue that all we are doing now is putting off the inevitable and that one day, if mankind is to continue on, we'll have to make those choices...

Right now, we have folks who rather than move forward want to marginalize government at a time when we need it the most... The corporation have shown they have no intere3st or courage in anything buy making money...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: pdq
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 09:47 PM

Absolutely correct.

End of the Great Depression: December 7th, 1942. Pearl Harbor attack by the Japanese. WWII. End of story.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 09:43 PM

Yes, the Second World War got the USA out of the depression. Massive employment, massive mobilization, massive job creation...no bombing or invasion of mainland America to mess things up, relatively small losses in American lives (compared to most combatant nations), massive war production. All you need to get out of a depression is a really large and definitely winnable war fought entirely on other people's land and paid for by other people's gold and other people's devastation! (meaning that of the UK and Europe)

That window of opportunity doesn't exist now. Such a profitable BIG war is no longer feasible for America...or anyone else, mostly due to the nature of today's strategic weaponry.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 09:42 PM

There isn't a one word answer for that question, artbrooks, but there is a universally held understanding what it was that broke the Great Depression and it was World War II which was the ultimate exercise on Keynesian economics (by default)...

BTW, your question was unfair... Mine wasn't... As an economist, you should understand that...

That's what we learned... The spending that FDR did and the programs he created gave people "hope" and few buck in their pockets but the spending forced on *US* from the war is waht really broke the back of the Great Depression...

You disagree???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: gnu
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 09:41 PM

War? Noooo???!!! No way we are going to war. That would mean we would have had to have spent years battle training troops and field testing weapons in countries that were... oh, yeah, right... been there, done that... cover yer heads and duck yer tails... this one ain't gonna be fun... first one that's gonna see deaths on the NA continent. Surprise, surprise.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: artbrooks
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 09:33 PM

Was that the Great Depression? Not one sentence, Bobert - one word: war. BTW, once upon a time, I was an economist.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 09:27 PM

Maybe because they are not facts???

What got *US* out of the Great Recession, pdq???

One sentence, por favor, will do and just about every non-flat-earth economist on the planet will give the same answer...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: pdq
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 09:24 PM

It seems that every fact I put out calls for half a dozen rebuttals. Why rebut a fact?

OK, here is another fact to yell about:

Fact: After the Great Stock Market Crash of of 1929, many advisors recomended that Hoover follow the ideas of a new hot shot economist from England. Hoover did. His name was Maynard Keynes.

I don't feel like doing all the work for you, so just look up "pump priming" or "priming the pump".

It started under Hoover and led to a full Depression, not just a recession.

Then look up what FDR's Treasury Secretary had to say about the results. His name was Morgantgau.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 09:16 PM

And, pdq, here's a few other realities:

1. Bush handed over an ***unfunded*** and active war in Iraq

2. Bush handed over an ***unfunded*** and active war in Afghanistan

3. Bush handed over over $1T in ***unfunded*** tax cuts

4. Bush handed over an economy on the brink of total collapse and worst since the Great Depression

5. Bush handed over a Congress with it's Republican members saying openly that their #1 goal was to get Obama defeated in 2012... Not the health of the country or jobs

These are realities that ya'll on the right want to wall-paper over as if the rest of *US* listening to your ***BIG LIES*** have "moron" tattooed on out foreheads...

Hey, we on the other side might have been born at night but it wasn't last night... Try some arguments based on reality and less on ***BIG LIES***, distortions, quotes from paid right winged bloggers, hate of Obama and then maybe we can have a discussion of policies based on reality and not right wing mythology...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 09:01 PM

How can you be so misinformed, pdq???

First, the only ****annual**** budget deficit that is on Obama is 2010 which came in at $100B less than Bush's last on (2009)...

2009 annual budget deficit (Bush) = $1.4T

2010 annual budget deficit (Obama) + $1.3T

Secondly, every leading economist said that the stimulus needed to be on the plus side of $1T... Some were recommending as much as $1.3T... All Obama could get from an obstructionists Repubs was $700B with $400B of them going into tax cuts... That's not exactly pure Keynesian... Heck it's not even KeynesianLite... It ended up being another failed "tax cut"... The other $300B went into shovel ready projects...

Of course the right wing bloggers say that that $300B produced no jobs... That is what Hitler referred to as the BIG LIE... Drive down just about any US highway in America and you'll see bridges being rebuilt with that money.... Tell ya what, pdq... Take you a ride down US 29 thru Virginia and North Carolina and stop at any of those construction projects which are still being funded with the stimulus and stop on the side of the road and go run your theories to the construction workers who are got a pay check this week rather than an unemployment check... Yeah, do that and then come back and report what a failure Heynesian economics are... No, don't do that... Please do that!!!

Economists said $1T plus...

Repubs held it down to less than 1/3rd that...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 08:47 PM

The only thing he proved conclusively is the Keynesian Economics does not work!

Gotchs, PeeDee- and Reaganomics, a.k.a. voodoo economics, a.k.a. supply side economics does work, right?

Jesus wept, man.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 08:14 PM

It doesn't work when half the "stimulus" id "tax cuts." Stimulus doesn't work when the money goes straight into the bank or investment in China.

No where did Keynes say that you are supposed to stimulate the economy by building houses people can't afford and lying to investors. That is the cause of the recession. There is no fix for it any time soon. But an end to tax breaks would help.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 08:04 PM

Charley Noble: "GfS-Thanks for your review of increases in the debt ceiling and who was president at the time....."

You are VERY welcome! If you noted, after my post, one certain numbskull, didn't think 'numbers were important'?????????
I wonder what he does when the guy at the music store tells him his favorite strings are now $19.95 a set....tell him, "Oh, you must have it wrong, give it to me free, I'm entitled to them..besides, numbers aren't important!"

Anyway, I try to be on the side of the truth, no matter which way it falls!..Again, you're welcome!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: pdq
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 07:59 PM

We have been in a Recession continously for the past three years!

Obama has personally taken charge of spending $2 trillion dollars all of which went on the National Debt.

The only thing he proved conclusively is the Keynesian Economics does not work!

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 07:59 PM

You are right...

94 cents of every dollar that the Repubs now want to renig on were handed to Obama the day he took office... Almost half from George W Bush...

How do you spell "dead beats"???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 07:53 PM

GfS-

Thanks for your review of increases in the debt ceiling and who was president at the time. Of course, the Republicans have little interest in such history if it doesn't fit into their theme and message. If their draconian plan is actually passed and signed into law, I hope they'll accept responsibility for the cuts they will be imposing, but I doubt it. They'll just claim that it was Obama and the spendthrift Democrats that spun us back into the ditch of recession.

Leaping lizards!!!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 04:07 PM

I am almost at the point where a "default" might be the best option... It then allows Obama to choose what gets paid and not Congress which will have shot it wad and in doing so marginalized itself...

Either that or Section 4 of the 14th amendment...

This filibuster is the most immature legislative trick I think I can remember going back, oh, forever... And most of us have witnessed a lot of trickery in Congress over the last 4 decades...

The minority does not deserve to be rewarded for trying to destroy the American economy...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: saulgoldie
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 12:16 PM

And from The Borowitz Report (we need all the laughs we can get to get through this!)


Fox News Reports: Obama Starting to Wonder Why He Moved to U.S.
President Nostalgic for Land of Birth, Fox Says

WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report) – According to the Fox News Channel, President Barack Obama is so weary of the debt ceiling stalemate in Congress that he is beginning to wonder why he moved to the United States in the first place.

Fox News anchor Shepard Smith broke the story today, reporting that "sources close to the President say he's increasingly nostalgic for the land of his birth."

"To someone like President Obama, this wrangling in Congress must seem very foreign," said Mr. Smith. "In Kenya, debt ceilings are raised automatically by the village elders, who then celebrate with a ceremonial feast of cabbage, mangoes and goat."

While Mr. Smith stopped short of saying that Mr. Obama planed to leave Washington and return to his native Kenya, "his birth certificate does allow him to return at any time he sees fit."

"As he sees Congress push the United States ever closer to default, who can blame Mr. Obama for longing for simpler times, roaming free on the savanna?" Mr. Smith reported.

In other debt ceiling news, by unanimous vote the House of Representatives passed a bill raising Speaker of the House John Boehner's medication.

As for the debt ceiling negotiations, they are "right on schedule," according to the ancient Mayans.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: artbrooks
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 08:54 AM

The Repubs. never expected the Cap, Cut and Balance Bill to go anywhere - maybe if they had they would have taken the time to construct a better piece of legislation. Its only purpose is to influence the 2012 election. The requirement that Congress sends a balanced budget constitutional amendment to the states for ratification allows them to point at anyone who votes against it as being opposed to a balanced budget, and the fact that it only raises the debt ceiling enough to get us to this time next year, guaranteeing a similar fight then, assures that anyone in their right mind will vote against it.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 08:18 AM

Repubs are going to get swept back out in 2012...

You're getting way ahead of yourself, Bobert. Remember: Always bet on stupidity & you'll never lose yer money.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 01:29 AM

This is an excerpt from another post..from me...

".....In regards to the Tea Party,..it won't matter anyway..as I said in another post dealing with the debt ceiling, what is going to come out of this, is the U.S., with all its 'two party compromises', will end up with the government handing over receivership of the debt to an 'international, globalist banking concern'....and everybody will go away 'happy'....and go away, with absolute rule, and control of our country, and under their rules. This IS and will be the result of the corruption of our 'representative' government. We have, for sometime now, had our 'representatives' not representing the 'will of the people'...but rather, acting as brokers, in regards to the 'laws' they back, and for what reason.....the highest bidder.
The Tea Party rank and file is mostly comprised of regular folks who thought they had nowhere else to turn. The Kosh's merely cashed in, with their efforts to gain control of them. As it stands now, there is NO group truly representing the people.....and by the way, as a country, we have already collapsed....and have not been informed fully, as of yet!
Just stay tuned, and watch...you'll see!
Meanwhile, I'm sure many of those lagging behind, will still be pointing fingers, at one party or the other...as designed...to keep reality from being addressed! As it stands now, we are in a world of hurt, and the ONLY thing keeping it afloat, is whatever 'remnants' of 'hope' you can muster up!.....until it's used up!!
You'll see!!!"

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 10:55 PM

Bye, Repubs...

This was a terrible strategy on your part and like '96 is going to cost ya'll in 2012...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 10:49 PM

The whole thing is a goat fuck .... democrats and republicans.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 10:28 PM

I'm loving all this...

Repubs are going to get swept back out in 2012... What a stupid and suicidal strategy they have followed...

Bye...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 03:12 PM

The big lies FOX hopes everyone will believe are

[THE BIG LIE}
The PResident did not take control of the debt ceiling crises!
AKA (His leading from behind is cowardly) and He never proposed a plan or budget)

Well kids, it is illegal according to the Constitution for the President to pass legislation, be laws or budget. ONLY the House of Representatives and Senate may do that.


However once a disaster happens, a President may take emergency actions to deal with the crises. To respond to a world wide default of the dollar,
it would be a day late and a trillion dollars short.



BIG LIE
The President made this whole mess!

Boehner announced on the floor of the Senate in January that they were going to use the Debt Ceiling issue to hold the President powerless to accept new sweeping changes.

McConnel in the Senate announced on the Senate floor that the first duty of Republicans was to make the President fail at re election, no matter what they had to do.


BIGGEST LIE OF ALL

Cutting spending in the USA will create jobs.

sorry children but the less money there is, the less spending there is and hiring anyone at that point, would be the last thing (the job creater) would do.

however...
The (job creator) is willing to hire Chinese and expand foriegn markets. No need to invest in a depressed American market, since no one is spending, no one is buying.



PS Yesterday I said that Bachmann would at some point call Obama a dictator. She did today.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 02:50 PM

Tax the filthy rich, no matter how squeaky clean they look.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 07:55 AM

Then we ought to be taxing her eh?

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Sawzaw
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 12:53 AM

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi saw her wealth rise considerably last year, from just more than $20 million to $35.2 million establishing Pelosi's place as one of the wealthiest lawmakers in the country.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: gnu
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 03:53 PM

"THe Hose Republicans..."

Hahahahahaaa! Bunch a hosers eh? Good typo/F-slip!

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 03:42 PM

So why doesn't the Senate just pass the Cap, Cut and Balance Act and be done with it?

Perhaps because its a piece of shit, PeeDee?

The "Cap, Cut and Balance Act" would put 50% of retired folks into poverty...

C'mon, Bobert - PeeDee doesn't give two shits about that.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 02:52 PM

CNN polls shows Cap, Cut and Balance has the support of 67% of the American people.

No. That is a lie, capping cutting and balancing has the support of the American people. Not the specific Cap, Cut and Balance bill.

I support capping cutting and balancing. But it is economic suicide to put it into law. Do you want the whole country to be run like California? The Federal government and the markets need the flexibility to deal with a cyclical economy.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: pdq
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 02:43 PM

CNN polls shows Cap, Cut and Balance has the support of 67% of the American people.

Obama and the DNC see predictions that the Dems will lose another 60+ House seats and probably lose the Senate in 2012.

Obama is also toast unless he can shut down the US government and blame the Republicans.

It is not working as well as it did when Clinton did it and successfully blamed Gingrich.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 02:30 PM

The Republicans have no mandate or public support for the Ryan Budget, or for the cut and cap thing. The Democrats have tried to compromise. The Republicans have refused all compromise. The Democrats cannot be blackmailed into denying the will of the people. The economy will lose big time. The argument that the Tea Party is putting forth, that we have to destroy the economy to save it will not prevail. The Republicans will lose this battle, now and in 2012.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: GUEST,Songbob
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 01:58 PM

And this whole fooferaw is a smokescreen anyway. If the Republican'ts want to cut spending, let 'em pass a budget that does so. Oh, yeah... they did pass the Ryan budget, which voucherized Medicare and slashed a lot of other expenditures, then sent it off to the Senate to die. As they knew it would.

It was a safe vote -- vote your ideology, then let it wander off into limbo, while you get back to the important things, like defunding Planned Parenthood, accompanied by statements "not intended to be factual".

Republican'ts are really good at running for office, but shitty at running an office. Politics, yes; governing, not so much. And the old saw about polics being "the art of the possible" goes out the window in the highly-charged atmosphere these cretins seem to like. The Republican't approach is closer to a fringe party in Italy, or some other parliamentary system, where narrow special interests get served by a narrow, special-interest party.

I don't want the US to turn into Italy, thank you very much. Big-tent parties where you can have wide variance of opinion suits me much better than what they seem to be promoting -- ideological purity, "get your ass in line" discipline, talking point recitation in place of serious discussion (you get a lot of that here, from a few posters), and narrow, narrow views on what the country needs.

We're going into a period of austerity when the economy needs a shot in the arm. God help us.

Bob

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 01:47 PM

Good one Bob. But who would be left to preside over the mass impeachment?

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: GUEST,Songbob
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 01:46 PM

All Congressmen and Senators take an oath of office, to "preserve, protect, and defend" the Constitution of the United States.

The Constitution, in its 14th Amendment, says that the public debt of the United States cannot be denied.

So voting to default -- failing to raise the debt ceiling -- is by definition UnConstitutional. It follows then that each and every Congressman that votes to send the country into default is in violation of his/her oath of office and should be removed forthwith.

Bob

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 12:20 PM

The 'greater good', 'social justice' and the 'social contract' are now spoken of in terms of a disease, an evil and sinister plot.

Much of this attitude is shaped directly from 20 years of right wing radio and FOX.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 11:49 AM

The "Cap, Cut and Balance Act" would put 50% of retired folks into poverty... Right now, we have 50% of our seniors living with less than $22,000 a year... What the Repubs bill would do is ***force*** draconian cuts in Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security...

If, however, the Repubs would agree to allow the tax rates that were in place 30 years ago when the middle class's wages stagnated and close the tax loopholes that the corporations have put in place during that time frame then maybe we would have a basis for a discussion but to expect the working class, the poor and the elderly to absorb 100% of the3 sacrifice and the wealthy and corporations to continue munching down their free lunch is not only immoral but a formula for armed revolution...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 11:45 AM

The goal behind all the right wing members of Congress is to "Starve the Beast". That is the old anarchist strategy of killing the Federal Government by monetary starvation. No money = no agencies like EPA, Education, Energy, FDA, SEC, FEMA, SS and all the rest.

No agencies - no enforcemnt of laws, regulations and safeguards.

Everyone with a bilion dollars could do as they please with impunity, as they essentially have been doing for 12 years, but on meth and steroids.

The cut cap and balance for example when compared to the Ryan plan, goes 10 times farther. The Federal Government would not be able to respond to a catastrophe unless it was put into the budget prior to the diasaster.



!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HISTORIC BREAKING NEWS. It seems that Harry S Truman was the first President to unilaterally push through a debt Ceiling Bill!
So it seems there is a precedence for a President to intervene.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: pdq
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 11:24 AM

"...alongside eight other Republicans who voted against the "Cut, Cap and Balance Act" last week because it was too liberal..." ~ New York Slimes

So why doesn't the Senate just pass the Cap, Cut and Balance Act and be done with it?

The bill needs just four more votes from Democrats to pass.

Answer: Democrats like Obama, Shumer and Reid have said that anything proposed by a Republican is "dead on arrival".

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 08:56 AM

Hey Douiggie! Check it out-

Editorial - New York Times
A Denial of Reality
Published: July 26, 2011

How can so many Republican lawmakers justify pushing their country toward catastrophic default just to score ideological points? The answer can be found in their statements and writings: They are constructing an alternative reality far different from that of most Americans.

The Treasury Department, which keeps the government bankbook, set the Aug. 2 deadline, but they say it cannot be trusted because it is an arm of the Obama administration. Representative Joe Walsh, a freshman from Illinois, recorded an instantly notorious video in which he accused President Obama of "lying" about the dangers of default. "There's plenty of money to pay off our debt and cover all of our Social Security obligations," he said, without saying where all these billions might be hidden.

Representative Michele Bachmann, the Tea Partier running for president, went even further, saying there would be no default at all because the government would always find a way to pay the interest on its debt. Her level of disbelief in any statement made by the White House is so complete that she disregarded the possibility that the global financial system could impose its own devastating downgrade on the government's obligations.

Mrs. Bachmann's denial of economic reality puts her at the far-right end of the House, alongside eight other Republicans who voted against the "Cut, Cap and Balance Act" last week because it was too liberal.....

Complete article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/27/opinion/27wed2.html?src=rechp

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 07:45 AM

As it happened, from the ages of 7 to 13 young Barry Obama was a lemon stand organizer. He scouted locations, gave speeches about sugar ratio and talked to customers and supplies alike generally rising the quality and profitability of the Oahu lemonade experience. Then Barry went on to middle school and started organizing the paper carriers.

Then the big bottlers came in with their "tea" and had a party. Police were bought off. Cut rate Arnold Palmer was everywhere and The Hard stuff (Mike's Hard Lemonade) was showing up in unsavory places. A corporate sponsored crackdown was instituted when the GOP rigged the health board elections. They all drank the Koolaid because of the high fructose corn syrup subsidies. Artificially enhanced lemon like citric acid flavoring became king. The consequences are only now becoming apparent in the high incidence of mouth cooties.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 07:44 AM

Under Reagan it was raised 18 times.

Today;
THE YEN SURGES and the dollar falls.

Who is seriously hurt by this already?
Japan.

Today more dollars will be chasing the Yen.
In DC the symbolic kabuki performances continue.


The real deadline was in May yet tea types question the Aug 2 validity as a dealine.


Senator McCain came back to life yesterday and said on the floor of the Senate that the 6th month old Republican House members are BIZZARO ! He went futher to say that, "these new members are so misinformed that they believe that when Sen Reid TABLED the house bill which included changing the COnstitution of the United States of America, that tea partiers believe that means they can now ammend the bill and get it passed. That is unfair, that is not true, that is not reality"

One really dumb house repub said "I will never vote to raise the debt ceiling, I, uh, want to lower it"




I was thinking that House leader Boehner should invite the tea party members to a dinner at the Four Seasons, sneak out the back door and have a waiting quorum of the house to pass the usual one page debt ceiling increase bill and give it to the Senate and signed by Obama in 15 minutes, enough time to get back to the dinner and have dessert with the Tea Party Congressmen.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 07:29 AM

Just one problem with the numbers, GfinS...

The December, '09 deficit wa still Bush's last budget... Not Obama's...

That's the part that the right refuses to admit... Bush left yet another exploding deficit with his last budget which was in place before Obama was sworn in...

Reality is that Obama actually cut the annual deficit by $100B from Bush's last one of $1.4T to $1.3T...

But I reckon we don't need to stenkin' facts cluttering up the discussion...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 12:01 AM

See More About:
national debt
debt ceiling
Obama
government waste
federal budget process

Congress has tinkered with the debt ceiling, the statutory limit on amount of money the United States government is authorized to borrow to meet its legal obligations, a grand total of 78 times since 1960 - 49 times under Republican presidents and 29 times under Democratic presidents.



In modern history, Ronald Reagan oversaw the largest number of debt ceiling increases, and George W. Bush approved a near doubling of the borrowing cap during his two terms in office.

Here's a look at the debt ceiling under modern U.S. presidents.

1. Debt Ceiling Under Obama

The debt ceiling has been raised on three occasions under President Barack Obama. The debt ceiling was $11.315 trillion when the Democrat was sworn into office in January 2009 and increased by nearly $3 trillion or 26 percent by summer 2011, to $14.294 trillion.

See also: Did Obama Double the National Debt?

Under Obama the debt ceiling increased:

by $789 billion to $12.104 trillion in February 2009, Obama's first year in office, under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act;
by $290 billion to $12.394 trillion ten months later, in December 2009;
and by $1.9 trillion to $14.294 trillion two months later, in February 2010.

2. Debt Ceiling Under Bush
The White House
The debt ceiling was raised on seven occasions during President George W. Bush's two terms in office, from $5.95 trillion in 2001 to nearly double that, $11.315 trillion, in 2009 - an increase of $5.365 trillion or 90 percent.

Under Bush the debt ceiling increased:

by $450 billion to $6.4 trillion in June 2002;
by $984 billion to $7.384 trillion 11 months later, in May 2003;
by $800 billion to $8.184 trillion 18 months later, in November 2004;
by $781 billion to $8.965 trillion 16 months later, in March 2006;
by $850 billion to $9.815 trillion 18 months later, in September 2007;
by $800 billion to $10.615 trillion 10 months later, in July 2008;
and by $700 billion to $11.315 trillion three months later, in October 2008.

3. Debt Ceiling Under Clinton

The debt ceiling was raised on four occasions during President Bill Clinton's two terms, from $4.145 trillion when he took office in 1993 to $5.95 trillion when he left the White House in 2001 - an increase of $1.805 trillion or 44 percent.

See also: National Debt Versus Federal Deficit

Under Clinton the debt ceiling increased:

by $225 billion to $4.37 trillion in April 1993;
by $530 billion to $4.9 trillion four months later, in August 1993;
by $600 billion to $5.5 trillion two years and seven months later, in March 1996;
and by $450 billion to $5.95 trillion 17 months later, in August 1997.

4. Debt Ceiling Under Bush

The debt ceiling was raised on four occasions during President George H.W. Bush's one term, from $2.8 trillion when he took office in 1989 to $4.145 trillion when he left the White House in 1993 - an increase of $1.345 trillion or 48 percent.

Under Bush the debt ceiling increased:

by $70 billion to $2.87 trillion in August 1989;
by $252.7 billion to $3.1227 trillion three months later, in November 1989;
by $107.3 billion to $3.23 trillion 11 months later, in October 1990;
and by $915 billion to $4.145 trillion one month later, in November 1990.

5. Debt Ceiling Under Reagan
Hulton Archive
The debt ceiling was raised on 17 occasions under President Ronald Reagan, nearly tripling from $935.1 billion to $2.8 trillion.

Under Reagan the debt ceiling was raised to:

$985 billion in February 1981;
$999.8 billion in September 1981;
$1.0798 trillion September 1981;
$1.1431 trillion in June 1982;
$1.2902 trillion in September 1982;
$1.389 trillion in May 1993;
$1.49 trillion in November 1983;
$1.52 trillion in May 1984;
$1.573 trillion in July 1984;
$1.8238 trillion in October 1984;
$1.9038 trillion in November 1985;
$2.0787 trillion in December 1985;
$2.111 trillion in August 1986;
$2.3 trillion in October 1986;
$2.32 trillion in July 1987;
$2.352 trillion in August 1987;
and $2.8 trillion in September 1987

Just in case 'Facts' interest anyone out there!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 11:47 PM

It might have helped, if president Obama ever ran as much as a lemonade stand. That being said, Bush's unfunded war hasn't helped much either. In any event, the guys who will set the policy(of which Obama has NONE),will be the bankers, multi-national, and globalist..not either party...so, come on, try to get your heads out of the partisan party boxes. These last administrations, are nothing but shills for the decisions that are made, circumnavigating anything remotely resembling the will of the people, for the people, or by the people!
How much more obvious does this have to get, before some of you get the idea to 'hop aboard the clue train'?!?!

Sorry, if that insults your pet party..but it IS the Truth!

GfS