BS: Racism in the UK media

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Sep 12 - 05:21 PM

Alan - you have seen exactly what he said
You have seen his persistence in claiming - without proof - that a whole community is culturally tainted
You have seen his constant evasion in refusing to back up his 'expert witnesses' with the quotes he claims they have made that back up his sick theories.
Why shouldn't he be here - what better to peddle his sick theories than an open forum where he can say anything he wishes without fear of retribution.
At the time of the Dale Farm eviction several of us had our facebooks hacked into by a BNP shit who altered our personal profiles - not Keith I hasten to add - we know who did it - a regular contributor to this forum.
He brands a whole ethnic group as poterntial culturally influenced perverts.
I can't remember if you were around at the time, but I suggest you seek out the 'Muslim Persecution' thread - counting his postings should be evidence enough.
He claims to have the interests of the underage young women at heart but in truth, he is as much a persecutor of innocent people as are those animals who prey on them - in his case innocent men women and children who happen to be of the same religion and nationality as the criminals.
I have no time for these shits but I will not remain silent while people like Keith uses their crimes to persecute and smear a whole community - in his case, from the comfort of his home and the safety of his anonymity.
Would you care to justify his arguments?
I find these 'slanging matches' an embarrasment and an interference to the reason for my being a membert of this forum - my love of folk music.
Keith and I are on opposite sides of the fence as far as these topics are concerned (I'm pleased to say) and his habit of propriortorily taking over these topics. squeezing the last drop of blood out of them, and his insistence of having the last word on all of them (go and check) means that we'll almost certanly clash again.
Can I clear up my attitude towards racism in England.
I do not believe everybody in Britain to be a racist, but I do believe there is enough to be of concern - not in fanatics and active fascists, but in ordinary people who otherwise are friendly, sociable and welcoming - as I've said before, people who I would happily have a drink with as long as the topic of race or immigration does not come up.
I experienced this most days of my working life, especially in London, and through my activities with one of the most persecuted ethnic groups in Britain. I also know it to be the case from my reading - I produced enough examples on previous threads - all of which were ignored.
McGrath
I pointed out that the constant repetion of the same question WHICH I ANSWERED EACH TIME

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 29 Sep 12 - 03:44 PM

Jim this is crazy. You keep saying he's a racist. If he was a racist = what would he be doing here?

He'd be with his BNP mates. It obviously matters to him that no one thinks he's a racist - or he wouldn't be arguing. As for what he's wrote - well who hasn't said politically incorrect things and wrote them, and sung about them!

I dunno why Keith pisses so many people off. he used to piss off Divis Sweeney and Ard. I don't think he can mean to - otherwise he wouldn't keep protesting like this.

perhaps he just needs to wind his neck in a bit stop saying stuff that he knows will be controversial.

You reckon we're deeply racist in England. i suppose its true -the recent crop of 'grooming' cases involving Asians has been worrying. And it wouldn't surprise you, any more than it would about all the cases involving RC priests, if you had any contact with the religious bullshit ideas about sexuality the poor sods grow up with.

Its also true that no estate agents boast about the proximiy of a traveller encampment to their properties and the wonderful opportunities for cultural enrichment thus offered.

And keith knows damn well that you care about these subjects. Do you want him to walk on eggshells around you? Bit of a red rag to a bull to you.

I've PM-ed hm in the past and said why can't you just accept Jim has sore points, and leave it at that. And he says why should I agree to be insulted?

I don't know what the answer to all these questions are. Is it that you both enjoy these slanging matches?

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Sep 12 - 03:33 PM

Capital letters count as shouting. Capital letters in red without punctuation amount to bellowing. "Ranting" seems a very fair term to apply. It diesn't help get the point across, it drowns it.

The constant repetition of the same question which has been answered each time That seems to go both ways.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Sep 12 - 03:09 PM

"The over-representation is well established, not my invention."
YES IT IS - JUST AS YOU DELIBERATELY REMOVED JACK STRAW'S 'TESTOSTERONE' REFERENCE YOU ARE NOW DELIBERATELY IGNORING THE POINT HE WAS MAKING.
THERE IS NOWHERE NEAR ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO MAKE A LINK BETWEEN THE BEHAVIOR OF A MINUTE HANDFUL OF CRIMINALS AND THE BRITISH PAKISTANI CULTURE - THE FACT THAT YOU CONTINUE TO CLAIM THAT THERE IS WITHOUT A SHRED OF EVIDENCE IS MORE THAT ENOUGH REASON TO BELIEVE YOU RT BE A RAVING RACIST
PRODUCE YOUR PROOF, PRODUCE YOUR CULTURAL IMPLANTS STATEMENTS, GIVE ONE SHRED OF EVIDENCE THAT ANYBODY HAD CLAIMS "ALL MALE PAKISTANIS..."
Even the survey of these crimes carried out the year before last admitted that what little evidence they had managed to gather was deeply suspect and could in no way link these crimes with either ace or culture
You have even ignored that.
Now go and play with your imaginary friends - you have had your answers and have given none in return - go and hold a rally somewhere.
McGrath
I do hope you are prepared to take back your 'rant' accusation The constant repetition of the same question which has been answered each time is surely a sad case of all the lights on but nobody at home.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Sep 12 - 02:39 PM

It is nothing to do with the Muslim religion.
All those 5 people linked the offending to the British Pakistani culture.
Again, I care nothing for explaining why they do it.
The over-representation is well established, not my invention.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Sep 12 - 02:34 PM

He (Jack Straw) said: "There is a specific problem which involves Pakistani heritage men ... who target vulnerable young white girls.

"We need to get the Pakistani community to think much more clearly about why this is going on and to be more open about the problems that are leading to a number of Pakistani heritage men thinking it is OK to target white girls in this way.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9570189/Jack-Straw-Pakistani-community-must-face-up-to-grooming-scandal-following-Rochdale-case.html

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Sep 12 - 02:33 PM

"Culture effects everyone."
CULTURE TAKEN ON ITS OWN IS MISLEADING -
Many of these criminals were born in Britain - read the reports.
They are no traditional Muslims, they are BRITISH PAKISTANIS - certainly not fundamentalist Muslims - they do not pray; they drink alcohol.
They have kicked over the traces of their culture and religion.
"Now, do you still deny the over-representation Jim?"
THERE IS NO PROVEN OVER REPRESENTATION and there never can be until a nationwide and in depth survey is carried out - all your "experts" have made exactly the same point - claiming an over-representation of the British Pakistani population (or even those where these crimes have been discovered IS A MALICIOUS INVENTION ON YOUR PART (

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Sep 12 - 02:22 PM

I will ignore nothing Jim.
I always acknowledged that most sex offenders are white British.

Straw was quite clear that this crime was a particular issue for the BP community.
I quoted all of his statements, but not all every time.

The people were the 5 previously mentioned.
Those knowledgeable people all ascribed the behaviour to aspects of culture.
Do you deny that Jim?
Is that racist Jim?

Culture effects everyone.
Agree?
If not what proportion?
Is that racist Jim?

I have no opinion, make no claims, and do not care why they do it.
I was asked what I believe, and I gave an honest answer.
I believe the weather forecast too, but it is not my opinion or claim.
The forecasters have the knowledge.
I do not.

Now, do you still deny the over-representation Jim?

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Sep 12 - 12:51 PM

"I was asked what I believe."
Yes you were - and your reply brands you a racist
"I doubt all those people were wrong"
What people and what exactly did they say? While you continue to fail to substantiate your claim you continue to appear a liar - give us a statement branding "all male Pakistanis potential procurers of underage girls and you will have proved me wrong on that issue (but that still makes no difference to the fact that the views you have put forward as your own are deeply racist and could have come straight out of the Nazi race laboratories) and are all your own work.
I would remind you of your behaviour when making the claim you did on that revolting thread (and still are making). You carefully edited out Jack Straw's comments on "testosterone driven young men" thus removing his conclusion that they were no different to young men of any other race or culture.
"Do you still deny there is an over-representation"
Another candidate for the dyslexia clinic.
I've just written that I believe there to be nothing like enough evidence for such a claim, based on the fact that we are talking of a minuscule number of cases that have come to light and the even smaller numbers of communities involved.
I suggest you re-read the warning that accompanied the (eagerly awaited by you and the BNP) damp sqib of a survey that was carried out some 18 months ago that pointed out that the limitations of the work carried out totally precluded any hard and fast conclusions being drawn - if you don't believe me, believe them
I assume we are not going to get a response to my question regarding the pressures of English culture on we Brits - so here's another one for you to continue to ignore.
It has been admitted by all concerned that pedophilia is largely an indigenous activity committed overwhelmingly by white Anglo Saxons, often by close family members - does this make us a nation of culturally driven incestuous perverts or what?
Now - ignore away to your heart's content.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Sep 12 - 11:14 AM

I was asked what I believe.
I doubt all those people were wrong, but if they were I do not care.
There is no excuse, so what value an explanation for such wicked cruelty.

Do you still deny there is an over-representation Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Sep 12 - 11:04 AM

"Jim, you have put scores of questions to me."
And you have failed to answer most of them and you have repeatedly ignored requests to do so.
"Do you still?"
I have always believed that evidence is necessary before any conclusion can be reached on such an important and potentially damaging subject. Given the total lack of research into these crimes and the minute number of people involved in them, an astounding accusation such as yours would have devastating consequences to any community accused of such deformities as you have suggested were it to be taken seriously (if you are going to claim that others have made these accusations on the scale you have please include quotes of them doing so). How can you possibly claim "a large over-representation of British Pakistanis" WHEN THE VAST MAJORITY OF THEM HAVE NOT BEEN INVOLVED IN THESE CRIMES AND HAVE NOT BEEN ACCUSED OF BEING SO
If it is a cultural trait, why are we not reading reports of these criminals from in every single Pakistani community all over the country?
Why are Pakistanis recognised as being peaceful, law abiding people and their children found to be the highest achievers in our education system - they must have some horrendous psychological hangups if the can be these things at the same time as suppressing cultural urges that make them want to go out and find underage women to have sex with - a cultural volcano waiting to go off.
Your obscene suggestion tars every single husband, father, grandfather, son, nephew...... with the suspicion of being a potential threat to underage girls (despite the insistence of all the people you have mentioned that it is dangerous to draw any racial or cultural conclusions from the pitiful handful of cases.
I put up at some length other possible causes - you did not even grace those suggestions with acknowledgement.
If the Pakistani community is so profoundly damaged by its culture, why are we Brits not equally damaged by the flaws of our own culture, as I outlined above - or are we all culturally implanted misogynists suppressing our urges, as you have described Pakistani Muslims to be?
I find your "my opinion" and unspeakably evil smear on a comparatively harmless people - cowardly too.
I hope McGrath is reading this - it answers your somewhat superficial response - perhaps some of us take racism a little more seriously than others.
"I am not remotely interested in explanations."
But you have given one - that "all male Pakistanis..." and you have finally more or less admitted it, but claimed it not to be racist.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Sep 12 - 10:19 AM

Jim, you have put scores of questions to me.
I have just one for you.

You post endlessly about the explanation for the over-representation of BPs in this specific crime, but you have always denied that there actually is an over-representation to explain.
Do you still?

For myself, I am not remotely interested in explanations.
It smacks of an excuse.
From published sources, I believe there is a large over-representation of British Pakistanis, an under-representation of the majority population, and a zero representation of Indian Muslims and of Sikhs, Hindus and Buddhists from anywhere.
All those latter groups dislike the perpetrators being described as "Asians" or as "Muslims."

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Sep 12 - 10:18 AM

"Takes two to tango

Precisely. But it only takes one to rant.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Sep 12 - 05:47 AM

Round and round and round and round we go.......wheeeeeeeeee.......puke!

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Sep 12 - 03:52 AM

Does Jim have a message?
All I see is abuse.
Likewise Richard, who chose to restart discussion of the Northern child trafficking gangs (now found in Oxford too.)

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Sep 12 - 02:44 AM

Takes two to tango Mac
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 06:30 PM

Couldn't we do without the rants, Jim? They don't help to get the message across.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 09:16 AM

And NO.
The Church of England does not have racists.
(Morons maybe.)

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 09:14 AM

You can be "damn sure" I was not the only one wishing you could move on Jim.

Those knowledgeable people all ascribed the behaviour to aspects of culture.
Do you deny that Jim?
Is that racist Jim?

Culture effects everyone.
Agree?
If not what proportion?
Is that racist Jim?

I have no opinion and make no claims.
I was asked what I believe.
I believe the weather forecast too, but it is not my opinion or claim.
The forecasters have the knowledge.
I do not.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 08:55 AM

"It is not a racist statement."
It is a profoundly racist statement that implicates every male Paistani as a suspect to a crime against young women
"How can it be racist to say you believe what staunch, lifelong anti-racist people have said?"
Not one single anti-racist individual has ever made such a statement as yo have fully demonstrated by failing to produce one single quote
"I am Church of England!"
WHAT!!!!
The C of E doesn't have racists - it appears to have at least one moron
"I had hoped to move on."
I'm damn sure you did
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 07:58 AM

THAT link was about why Police did not act.
I quoted the bit of your post it was relevant to.
It was not about the ancient history.
I had hoped to move on.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 07:49 AM

What link Jim?

It is not a racist statement.
How can it be racist to say you believe what staunch, lifelong anti-racist people have said?
You are just being demented about nothing.

I am not a racist.
I am Church of England!
My missus is a Methodist.
We just don't do racism.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 07:42 AM

"Jim: If you could bear to be so good as to copy and paste your precise answer"
Can't be arsed Mike, I'm sure you understand fully what I have written but would rather avoid it
Incidentally, far from being concerned what Jim Carroll and Richard Bridge might of accuse them of, today's Times carries an account of a Yorkshire bobby taking a complaint from a victim "yawning loudly" and asking her why, if she objected so much to what had been done to her, did she go back for more – and attitude of indifference and a total lack of understanding.
"Don I DO NOW " BELIEVE THAT ALL MALE PAKISTANI MUSLIMS HAVE A CULTURALLY IMPLANTED TENDENCY" but only because of the testimony of all those knowledgeable people, and always acknowledging that only a tiny minority succumb"
Did you write this – if not, who did?
Is it a racist statement – if not, why not?
Please don't claim that the only reason you wrote it because experts put you up to it – it makes you appear even more of a moron.
Incidentally – your link is dated 27.9.12;    I hope you are not claiming the author as one of your "expert witnesses" – or d you have a crystal ball.
AND NOT A SINGLE MENTION OF "ALL MALE PAKISTANIS" OR CULTURAL IMPLANTS
I put up a number of examples of British attitudes towars women – you didn't respond and I don't suppose you will, but don't blame mefor trying.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 07:37 AM

Thank heavens Elgar wrote Rule britannia to unite all us Britons whatever out opinion differences!

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 06:57 AM

Oh, is that all, Al? I shouldn't call 4 words loquacious, myself. And in relation to the sort of obloquy usual on Mudcat, I should call it mild in the extreme.

Still, "wild and whirling words ... I'm sorry they offend you, heartily. Yes, faith, heartily." Hamlet

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 06:43 AM

the idea that they should be negligent of their duty due to our expressing our opinions on race is crass,

This is from the very Left Wing "Labour Uncut"

Now remember that no one had been prosecuted but enough was clearly known and there were enough concerns for a report to be commissioned into what had been going on, in fact still was going on. They helpfully noted that the crimes (presumably they meant alleged) had:

"cultural characteristics . . . which are locally sensitive in terms of diversity."

And for the avoidance of doubt as to where priorities lay:

"There are sensitivities of ethnicity with potential to endanger the harmony of community relationships. Great care will be taken in drafting . . . this report to ensure that its findings embrace Rotherham's qualities of diversity. It is imperative that suggestions of a wider cultural phenomenon are avoided."

So scores of girls aged 12 – 16 from a small geographical area are groomed, gang raped and then intimidated into silence by a small group of men of Pakistani origin and:

"It is imperative that suggestions of a wider cultural phenomenon are avoided."

What bloody planet are these people on? No one is suggesting that all Pakistani men are rapists for god's sake. There is nothing genetic or cultural about criminality

But a sick and distorted sense of political and cultural sensitivity allowed criminals to go unprosecuted and worse the horror to continue for years for young girls in Rotherham.
http://labour-uncut.co.uk/2012/09/27/the-rotherham-grooming-case-shows-the-dangers-of-confusing-criminality-with-culture/

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: GUEST,AW
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 06:31 AM

'Mannerless vulgarian I repeat. Plus drivelling idiot into the bargain ~~'

is what I mean!

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 06:10 AM

This is your last post Mike - fully answered in my verbiage --
,..,
Jim: If you could bear to be so good as to copy and paste your precise answer to this point, stripped of its surrounding verbiage, I will endeavour to respond to it.

~M~

The remark about dyslexia was more what I would have expected from the egregiously unpleasant Mr Bridge than from you. I wonder sometimes what satisfaction he gets from being so consistently nasty; but generally look for better of you.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 05:59 AM

somebody who time after time has used this forum to spout a racist philosophy

Malicious, vindictive lie Jim.
I have never made a racist post ever, nor even a comment.
Why would I?
I am no racist.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 05:56 AM

You stupid, stupid, stupid little man - of course it is your claim

Not tall, but not stupid either.
I could not make a claim about BP culture.
I have no knowledge.
Obviously I believed all those eminent people who were close to or within that community.
Their claim, their opinion not mine.

I only mentioned it because Don asked for my belief.
I said I believed those people.
Why would I not?
Why don't you?
The "clumsy words" were from Don's question. That is why they were in quotes.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 05:52 AM

"Now what have you [or Richard] to say about my point that it is constantly reiterated reactions & opinions like yours which have resulted in the recent finding of a commission of enquiry that S Yorks police disgracefully withheld the protection of the Law from many young citizens who were manifestly in need of it, because they feared the reactions and influence of people with opinions and kneejerk reactions like your inevitable ones?"
This is your last post Mike - fully answered in my verbiage (perhaps you should seek help for your dyslexia
I made it clear that the inaction of the Yorkshire police were entirely their own responsibility and the idea that they should be negligent of their duty due to our expressing our opinions on race is crass, even by yours and Keith's standards
You really didn't take a long enough spoon to that particular dinner party
Jim Carroll
I really do understand why you have "said all you have to say on the behaviour of our British Bobbies - it goes with the politics of those that support an ex PM who hobnobbed with mass murderers

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 05:32 AM

BTW - Mike - you seem to have gone silent on the behaviour of the Yorkshire police in failing to take action on sex abuse reports. J Carroll
.,,.
I've said my say on the matter Jim, & challenged you for a response which has not been forthcoming [or if it has it was lost in your acres of verbiage]. What do you want me to do, say it all again? why?
.,,.
Al ~ Have no idea whatever what your last remark addressed to me was supposed to mean or refer to. You receive 0* for clarity.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 05:04 AM

Al
"The fears and problems we are talking about are not groundless."
I was once beaten up by four drunk Chelsea supporters who nearly rammed aour car -
What do you suggest - that I buy an Uzi and wait for the crowds to comeout of Stamford Bridge?
On the other hand, I worked, for a time constantly with "Irish gypsies" from 1973 to 2005 without ever being (or even feeling) threatened, nevver having been robbed and certainly never assaulted.
Blaming the behaviour of a (miniscule it would appear) group of criminals on a whole community, or in Keith's case, a whole culture is mindless and thuggish racism - show us where it isn't.
If taken seriously, Keith's suggestions would affect an entire community of a million people - please don't plead sympathy for somebody who time after time has used this forum to spout a racist philosophy
Don't get sucked in to this vicious mindset.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 04:52 AM

"Not my claim Jim."
You stupid, stupid, stupid little man - of course it is your claim - you said it was your belief. It does not matter one iota whether anybody else shares that belief or even thought of it first - you put it up as your belief (and one you have just indicated that you still hold). Your Dalek-like repetition of a claim of non-existent "experts" having told you to say it (as with your moronic repetition of 'no Traveller' signs not existing because "we would have seen them") are signs of mental deterioration rather than proof, as far as I'm concerned.
It is a horrific statement that affects the male gender of a population of one million people - a suggestion that could easily have come out of the Nazi race laboratories.
The fact that you totally fail to offer one single example of any "prominent person" saying anything remotely similar makes it your invention, but that is beside the point - you have said that this is what you believe
It seems to have been established that pedophiles in Britain not only come overwhelming from the indigenous, white Anglo-Saxons section of our population, but the practice is largely carried out by family members, often close ones.
Does that mean that the rest of us have been culturally implanted with a tendency towards incestuous pedophilia?
Many religious and cultural groups have a poor record on their treatment of women, our own included. The attitude towards women by western churches is legendary and is seldom out of our press in Britain.
The Catholic church is reeling from the fact that their clergy have been raping children for decades, probably for as much as a century with the full collusion-by-silence of the hierarchy - due to a "cultural implant" maybe?
The most popular newspaper in Britain was launched on an open 'tits and bums' ticket ie, presenting women as 'available' - a cultural trait, do you think?
Rape in marriage did not become a crime in Britain until 1991 - how has that affected us culturally d'you think.
Due to the fact that a rape victim will almost certainly be treated as consenting by any defence in any court she ventures into, most rapes go unreported and unprosecuted - how does that reflect on the treatment of women in our culture?
In the 70s and 80s I worked as a maintenance electrician in London pubs
The lunchtime break periods were no-go times in many as they used that time to present strip shows to entertain the resting working population, once again presenting women as 'available'. Many of these women looked as if they could easily have been local schoolchildren who had nipped off during their dinner hour in order to make a quick few quid.
During this period I was working in a pub (not far from my home) which was sited opposite a large police station. In the afternoons after closing time some of the local bobbies and station staff made use of the top room where they would show some of the films that had been seized on porno raids.
All these are reflections of 'British culture' - have we all been implanted with such behaviour?
Before making mindless and extremely harmful attacks on the culture of others perhaps we might take a closer look at our own.
Jim Carroll
BTW - Mike - you seem to have gone silent on the behaviour of the Yorkshire police in failing to take action on sex abuse reports.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 04:50 AM

I think Jim and Richard are decent honourable men - they don't to see racism and predjudice triumph..

But surely you can both see. The fears and problems we are talking about are not groundless.

After being ripped off by a group of Irish gypsies who said thay would cut down some trees that I was too ill to even try and cope with - my wife won't accept thepresence of people knocking on the door trying to drum up trade.Another gang victimised an old man, the father of my roadie, and were escorting him to the cash machine to take his money off him.

And just look at your TV screens about this latest case in Yorkshire - the details are scary.

These criminals were definitely aided in their enterprises by an attitude of heartless racism from THEIR side. No one could do this stuff to people unless they regarded them as subhuman -unworthy of respect.

When you call people racist, and you really mean it. You see it hurts. And you two, do this repeatedly with Keith.


MiKe you - should know better than thinking up loquacious insults. It doesn't make the srguments any clearer. Six out of ten.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 01:27 AM

Acheson - nonsense, you repeatedly attack for example Muslims.

You are indeed deranged.
I am Christian but have NEVER attacked another faith.

In the 2010 thread,
I did not start it.
I did not join it for days.
I joined to defend the victims who someone had blamed, and to point out they were not all white.
I found myself arguing with fools who said there was no issue.
Whenever the issue of religion arose, I stated emphatically that it was not a Muslim issue.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 01:10 AM

Sir,

Perhaps so. But SFAICS my sole offence to you has been to agree with one or two people with whom you differ politically, Mr Bridge.

Mannerless vulgarian I repeat. Plus drivelling idiot into the bargain ~~

I remain, Sir.
Your humble and obedient servant ···

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 12:32 AM

Some place themselves beyond normal courtesy.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 11:53 PM

I didn't say respect; I requested courtesy. If you feel this requires to be earned, Mr Bridge, then you most lamentably lack it. Mannerless vulgarian!

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 06:24 PM

So, defensivists, why do you repeatedly denigrate immigrants, non-white people, and non-christian people?


Ake, you seem to have some sort of erratic libertarian, not classic left-right position. You do repeatedly denigrate travellers Romanies and Muslims.

Acheson - nonsense, you repeatedly attack for example Muslims.

Myer - you deserve none of the requested respect and you also repeatedly defend the above attack dogs. Lie down with dogs and you get fleas. Respect requires to be earned.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 05:46 PM

Richard...I think you also know that I am an atheist....and far to the left of you politically.....I have no truck with racism, or hatred of people with other views....I have also learned right from wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 05:07 PM

'and non-christian people to be less meritorious than English white Xtians'.
.,,.
Tho a baptised & confirmed member of the Anglican Communion since age 44, long since reverted to my default position of complete atheism, I am by birth a Jew, as I believe you know tho might have forgotten, Mr Bridge. So I am unsure where I fit into your own particular brand of kneejerk prejudice.

Should appreciate the courtesy of a 'Mr', if you would be so good, if for some reason* you choose to address me by my surname; tho you may, as appears at all events to be the normal practice on Mudcat, address me as Michael if so inclined.

~M~
*hostility? shyness? over-familiarity? some sort of embarrassment? demonstration that you have at last learnt the correct spelling?

No matter...

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 03:53 PM

The impression of posts from you,
Only your impression born of prejudice Richard.
A normal, balanced person would get no such impression.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 03:42 PM

The impression of posts from you, Myer, and you Acheson and you Ake is that they are are calculated to convey the view that there is a tendency for immigrants, non-white people, and non-christian people to be less meritorious than English white Xtians. I use the word "calculated" in the legal sense, since while I suspect your motives without a Vulcan mind probe I cannot be certain of them. That is racist.

It is nothing to do with particular acts of particular Muslims. The particular Muslims may have done wrong - but the repetitive nature of your attentions to Muslim wrongs is calculated to denigrate Muslims.

As such, you are racists.

My argument is that the white and the wong of individual instances is not the point. It does not matter for evaluating you whether you can correctly identify some Muslims who have done wrong. What matters is that you identify no-one else.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 03:18 PM

Not my claim Jim.
How would I know anything about that culture?
The claim that culture was to blame came from people in a position to know.
What proportion of a group are effected in any way by their culture Jim?
Please answer this time.
Also tell us why we should not believe all those eminent people.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 03:00 PM

So you're back claiming that All male Pakistanis are implanted with a tendency towards having sex with underage girls
Game set and match I think
If there still a lingering fear about our bobbies being afraid to do their duty...
It should be remembered that it was the Yorkshire police who sold their services to Maggie at the time of the miners' strike - only the best for our boys in blue!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 01:52 PM

Jim, everything you have said about me in your last few points is lies.
I have pursued no such agenda.
You can give no example.

Culture leaves an impression on all who grow up and live within it Jim.
If not, say what proportion.
All those people and more were adamant that the behaviour was due to culture.
I wouldn't know about their culture, but see no reason to disbelieve them.
What is your reason Jim?

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 01:46 PM

But Al -- Ake's and my point is that it is unwarranted fear of kneejerk accusations of 'illiberalism & racism' from Wotsit & Youknowwho which leads to the second group of abusers you list

Asians who think our supposedly secular values make us culturally inferior and deserving of rape and suicide bombs

being enabled to operate with impunity and its victims be unprotected.

Isn't it?

Best

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 01:40 PM

"It was of great interest to me first dozen times, Jim; tho I only agreed up to a point:"
Surely the fact that if someone uses this forum again and again to press home a racist message, such a definitive racist statement is an important factor to be taken into consideration when judging his arguments - just as, if he is right about Pakistanis, then it is important to know that they are male, Pakistani and Muslim before we give them our trust near underage girls.
Keith is a self-appointed guardian of the white, Anglo-Saxon race and has set himself up on this forum as a scourge to all foreigners - go and look at his record.
"S Yorks police disgracefully withheld the protection of the Law from many young citizens who were manifestly in need of it"
If this is true it is appalling - it means we have a police force in Britain which will allow itself to be manipulated by political pressure groups - if I believed it to be true I wouldn't sleep a wink at night.
This is a body with the power of arrest, stop and search, which is trusted above the word of the rest of us, can enter our homes and which has been found in the past to tamper with evidence in order to make their case, and in some cases can carry weapons and has been known to against innocent until proven guilty ordinary citizens.
Should we 'ordinary' people complain of their behaviour our complaints will be dealt with by other policemen - jeez - it isn't safe to to walk the streets nowadays.
Luckily we know that the British police force has a history of being "institutionally racist" following the Lawrence murder investigations, so we can all sleep easily in our beds.
I didn't respond for fear I might be accused of 'bobby-bashing' but you're making a pretty good job of it on your own.
"I agree with your straight and to the point posts Michael."
There - a matched pair - a homophobic ant-immigrationist and a self-declared racist - if you can win over Terrytoon you have three of a kind - I fold.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 01:25 PM

Couldn't agree less Ake. The enemy of freedom is illiberalism and racism.

Whether practised by The BNP lot, Asians who think our supposedly secular values make us culturally inferior and deserving of rape and suicide bombs, or gypsies who think its okay to rip off people door knocking. I say supposedly -because I see more spirituality in the setting up of the NHS, than the The Bible, The Bhagavad Gita, and the Koran combned.

Freedom is not a soft wooly alternative, easily trumped by some bugger like Mussolini or Thatcher making the trains run on time. On the contrary it requires vigilance and has been only won by the blood of our sacred dead.