BS: It's time Bernie

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Jul 16 - 02:12 PM

I wish I could vote for Obama a third time. Hillary is no Obama (ergo we've had two terms of Obama). But, Trump is no Mitt Romney (I'm saying it like it's a bad thing).

I'm listening to Tim Kaine's bilingual address in Florida and hoping for the best.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Jul 16 - 10:23 PM

Yeah, Joe, but is he an antisemite?

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Jul 16 - 08:18 PM

I'm not quite 68, and I'm glad to see that both Presidential candidates are a bit older than I am. The Obama guy, after 8 years of presidency, is still only 54. I liked him as President and all, but he made me feel really old.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: bobad
Date: 22 Jul 16 - 07:10 PM

No Greg it's the Islamophobes, I'm telling ya.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Jul 16 - 06:52 PM

No way, Boo - the antisemites are behind everything. Check under your bed.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: bobad
Date: 22 Jul 16 - 06:46 PM

Of course it was sabotage, Boo - the DNC are all raving antisemites, no?

You tell us Greg as you seem to know. Myself I believe the establishment is afraid of Bernie's "socialist" leanings and indebted to the Billary machine. Also Wall St. pressure plays a big role.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: gnu
Date: 22 Jul 16 - 06:23 PM

It will soon be time. You just watch and feel the Bern, baby! The good ol' USA is still breathing... you ain't seen nothin' yet.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Jul 16 - 06:12 PM

Of course it was sabotage, Boo - the DNC are all raving antisemites, no?

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: bobad
Date: 22 Jul 16 - 04:44 PM

Emails released by WikiLeaks point to sabotage by the DNC - it sure looks like they had it in for Bernie and wanted Hillary.......too bad.

New Leak Shows DNC Officials Tried to Destroy Bernie Sanders' Campaign

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: gillymor
Date: 14 Jun 16 - 06:19 AM

I'm not crazy about a 69 yr. old candidate either but a 6 year differential becomes more significant as we get up there.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 10:04 PM

Hillary will also be 69 on October 26th.

I'm inclined to feel "Don't truust anyone under 70" myself these days...

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 10:00 PM

Of course Hillary Clinton will be 69 too by November.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: gillymor
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 06:39 PM

I am more ideologically aligned with Senator Sanders than with any one else who ran but I don't see what qualifies him to be Prez. He's got a lot of good (and expensive ideas) that can never be implemented and when the GOP starts focusing on them (they've been laying off him up to this point trying to keep his candidacy alive) with their Super PACs his numbers will plummet, never mind when Trump starts deriding him as a socialist, true or not, which is tantamount to being a communist in the minds of many voters. Maybe you have to live in this country to appreciate the implications of that.

Also working against him is his age, Senator Sanders will be 75 on Sept. 1, Ronald Reagan was 69 when he assumed office and we saw how that turned out. Rather than being a lame duck from day one the senator would be far more valuable to the nation in the Senate as a strong voice for the left-leaning platform that he's going to be able to help write due to his excellent campaign. I think Sen. Warren would also be more effective in the Senate rather than being muted in the Clinton camp. .

HRC is probably the most thoroughly vetted Presidential candidate in history and she's still standing. An objective look at her record in every public position she's held indicates to me that she's more qualified to be POTUS than any of the clowns the GOP put forth and any of the Democrats as well with the possible exception of Martin O'Malley.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 05:37 PM

Bernie Sanders would be a better choice, both in himself and, it would appear, as an opponent to Trump, but it appears that option has gone. It is clear enough that Bernie is not going to be the Democrat candidate, and will not run as an Independent.

Effectively Americans will have the Le Pen or Chirac choice. No serious alternative but to vote against the fascist.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 12:33 PM

Give it up, Ake - you didn't understand when its been explained to you before, and you won't understand if its explained to you again, and facts are irrelevant to your mindset about Clinton.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 11:11 AM

Why on earth don't you think Mr Sanders could beat Mr Trump, the polls say he has a better chance of doing so than Mrs Clinton.

You were afraid to give him a chance, preferring to back the establishment shill with the dismal record.

Perhaps you don't want real change at all?

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: gillymor
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 10:24 AM

You beat me to it, Greg. When the greater evil, is a race-baiting, chiseling, uber-capitalist the lesser evil don't smell so bad.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 09:36 AM

FUCK THAT SHIT! VOTE YOUR CONSCIENCE!

Go for it, as long as you're willing to accept responsibility for Pres. Trumpshit.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 07:49 AM

Good for you Michael.....that makes two of us.......and I think Greg is coming round...... :0)

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: michaelr
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 01:23 AM

"Ralph Nader election buster"

I'm so fucking sick of the Nader nag meme that says You must not vote for the person who represents your values. You must instead hold your nose and vote for the lesser evil.

FUCK THAT SHIT! VOTE YOUR CONSCIENCE!

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Jun 16 - 08:24 PM

Here's a piece about that 2002 French Presidential Election. Didnmt turn out well for the fascist.
Daily Kos

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Jun 16 - 02:49 PM

All true, aken, but the alternative is worse. I'm reminded of the French Presidential election with Chirac and Pen senior in the run off, when the slogan was "vote for the crook, not the fascist".

The priority for Sanders minded Americaans need to be getting their people elected in the other elections for Congress and Senate, so that they can stronarm Clinton into being better than her record.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Jun 16 - 02:16 PM

Give it up, Ake - you didn't understand when its been explained to you before, and you won't understand if its explained to you again, and facts are irrelevant to your mindset about Clinton.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jun 16 - 01:50 PM

yer right Bernie is better but reality offers our own Golda Maier, Angela Merkle...Queen of the free world.

DId you know the pope could be a woman?

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Jun 16 - 01:28 PM

Ok then, It would appear that you "liberals" are about to vote for a Presidential candidate who supported war in Iraq, was instrumental in getting president Obama to facilitate the destabilisation of Libya,
pushed for regime change in Syria, which would have left a breeding ground for ISIS terrorists, accepts millions of dollars from US corporations, has made a bollocks of every office of government in which she was involved.........why?

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jun 16 - 12:02 PM

Rest assured Sen. Sanders will not become a Ralph Nader election buster.


For the sake of argument Bernie is just as capable as Hillary at being an expedient liar. To m knowledge he di not ie during the primaries but as President there woul be times a li is part of the job.

In an elevator my wife heard a Bernie supporter complain about women voting with thir vaginas.

Lets just say that young man will not be voting with his dick this year.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: mkebenn
Date: 10 Jun 16 - 12:15 PM

If she leaves the Senate, the Rep. Gov of Mass. would replace her as a fill in 'til special election, only draw back I can see. She'd appeal to Bernie's folk and shore up Hil's wall street creds. I'm not concerned with an all female ticket, as you point out all males haven't fared so well a lot of times. Anyway, she's hot to tear into Trump,anyway. Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jun 16 - 11:15 AM

I just looked at it on Youtube. She's impressive.

Your big worry is that to many people might be looking at Hillary, deciding they don't muxch like her, and thinking Trump is a no hoper, so they might stay home in November, or put in a protest vote - which could mean Trump actually winning, and would definitely hit the hopes of left Democrats getting in across the country.

Having Elizabeth upfront in the campaign, preferably as VP candidate would be a way of addressing that.

"Two women on the slate might be pushing things too far" - you've had two men every time for 240 years, and it hasn't worked out too well a lot of the time. And the two are pretty dramatically different. If Hillary doesn't pick her the suspicion might be she was scared of being outshone by her.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: mkebenn
Date: 10 Jun 16 - 08:05 AM

Mcgrath of Harlow. You are dead on and that is the dream. Did anyone catch Sen. Warren last night. She has become my favorite politician since RFK. Mike

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 09:00 PM

Nobody would expect a football team to concede before the game is over, no matter how impossible the hope of overtaking the other side. The same should be the rule in a political contest. Play to the whistle.

The contests that really matter are the ones for Congress and Senate. As the last eight years has shown, the gerrymandering that means that a country consistently voting Democrat is liable to be saddled with Republican legislatures means that a Democrat president is largely powerless.

The hope must be that Trump will so screw up the whole Republican that enough Democrats will be elected to compensate for the bent electoral system, and that the momentum of the Sanders campaign will mean that the Democrats elected would largely represent that momentum.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 05:53 PM

she was doing a job for the political system which she supported and she was bloody good at it.

So was Pol Pot.

Mrs Clintons stormtroopers & etc.

Its obviously pointless trying to educate you and you adamantly refuse to educate yourself, Ake. You're also starting to display the same alarming behavior as The Professor.

So from here on out, I'll do my damndest to try not to respond to your increasingly bizarre and uninformed rantings.

TTFN

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 05:51 PM

There is something very worrying about the dissonance between the California poll results and the recorded votes. I understand that litigation is in play. One key factor is the skewness of "provisional votes" and another (sorry if this sounds a bit tinfoil hatty) the possibility of corrupt electronic counting.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 05:41 PM

She was a formidable politician, one of the best of breed, although I disagreed with almost every one of her policies.

Fortunately, her political acumen had very little to do with her gender......she was doing a job for the political system which she supported and she was bloody good at it.
British manufacturing had become unprofitable and to save the system or to buy time it had to be pruned in a manner which devastated the working class......making it almost extinct and removing its political power.
A housing boom based on credit and the sale of "council houses" bought more time and turned most of the population into property owning capitalists.....Blair and New Labour continued her work until the inevitable financial crash of 2008.

The figureheads are really meaningless, you talk of the left of the Democratic Party, there is no left in the Democratic party, only a pissy marshmallow, rights obsessed, ineffective centre and Mrs Clintons stormtroopers........what a bloody choice!

If you really want change you must start by dismantling the socio/ economic system and re constructing it. Mr Sanders would be a start, but it will be a long haul and no one on these pages would see it come to fruition.......Mrs Clinton and her ilk are the heirs to Thatcher and Blair, a two tier society based on financial aspiration and the wealth gap growing ever wider.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 02:59 PM

she was the worst thing that ever happened to British politics.

Not at all, Ake - Maggie was the worst thing to happen to the British PEOPLE since The Black Plague.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: mkebenn
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 02:53 PM

Thanks for your support, if she was the second or fifth woman, I'd agree. Seems this claptrap is big news to many, and Thatcher was Reagan without outdoor plumbing, so I would'nt cite her. Mike

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 02:17 PM

Cant believe this piece of nonsense, "It's shameful that this land of the free has taken sooooo long to put a woman in this position, it's not like we didn't have examples from around the world"

What in hell does it matter whether the president is a man or a woman? surely it's ability to do the job that counts?

We have had a woman Prime Minister, one Margaret Thatcher......and most of the "liberals" here think she was the worst thing that ever happened to British politics.

I can't take you seriously after a remark like that Mike. Ideological claptrap.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 02:03 PM

There is a lot of leverage left Mr Sanders could threaten to stand as an independent......He has enough support in the country to do so. The bullets are not all with the Democratic establishment.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 01:12 PM

You're probably the only person in the western world that doesn't realize that Bernie's candidacy is over with the exception of a few of his more zealous minions. It seems like even the senator himself is becoming reconciled to it. As for momentum, he took a real beating on Tuesday night.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 01:11 PM

BBC now.....Sanders is going right to the wire, he says he is the only one who can beat Mr Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 01:05 PM

If the polls keep showing Sanders with positive numbers and Clinton negative against Trump, Sanders will get the nomination


No.

He.

Will.

Not.

It.

Doesn't

Work.

That.

Way.

Are you being wilfully obtuse on purpose, Ake, or are you really that ignorant about the workings of U.S. Govt, political parties, and election procedures?

I suspect I know the answer, but......

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 12:57 PM

3.7 is nothing, not so long ago it would have been 37......and the momentum is still with Sanders.
Clinton as president would mean no change and a probable foreign affairs debacle.

If the polls keep showing Sanders with positive numbers and Clinton negative against Trump, Sanders will get the nomination......unless as I said, the Democrat establishment fear socialism (even Bernie's very mild form), more than they fear Mr Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 10:08 AM

A differential of 3.7 million votes has dictated who the Democratic candidate will be.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 10:06 AM

you should really have been right behind Mr Sanders from the OFF.

Why do you assume I wasn't?

the polls will dictate who the Democratic candidate will be

Uh, no. That's not how it works. And by the way - WHAT polls, exactly, and where are you getting this information??

you got to break the mould even if it means sacrificing the presidency

That may possibly be the stupidist, mort ridiculous thing you've ever come up with, Ake, allowing that it has some pretty stiff competition.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 09:58 AM

According to the polls, more people would vote Sanders to beat Trump than Clinton......the polls will dictate who the Democratic candidate will be......unless of course the Democrat political establishment would rather have Trump than a socialist.

Greg ......I understand your position, but you should really have been right behind Mr Sanders from the OFF.

Party politics is meaningless, especially in the US where Big business runs everything including the politicians.....you got to break the mould even if it means sacrificing the presidency.......without a new political template nothing meaningful will ever change.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 09:18 AM

Food For Thought

If Bernie goes on sabotaging the left, he is responsible for the consequences--just as Ralph Nader...

Bernie is in no way "sabotoging the left". And the "responsibility" would be that of voters irresponsibly throwing their votes away on a candidate who could not possibly win - see above 08 Jun 16 - 11:17 AM

[Bernie] ... has a better chance of beating Mr Trump... [than Clinton]

Not in this universe, Ake. Would that it were so, but its a fantasy. If Bernie had a chance I'd vote for him in a New York Minute - but not at the expense of putting The Trumpshit in the Oval Office.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: mkebenn
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 09:13 AM

It's shameful that this land of the free has taken sooooo long to put a woman in this position, it's not like we didn't have examples from around the world. Mike

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 08:48 AM

Bernie ran a great campaign and he's moved the conversation considerably to the left and now it's time for him to bow out (in his own good time, he's earned it) and get behind HRC so she can get on with the nasty business of putting down this rabid dog, if the GOP doesn't beat her to it that is.

BTW, congratulations to HRC and American voters who brought about a historic moment with her victory. Her acceptance speech the other night was truly inspirational and was her best public moment that I can recall.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: mkebenn
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 08:27 AM

ake,the point is moot now, it's Trump or Clinton and a write in for Bernie is a vote for Trump. I love it that Harry Reid is pushing for Liz Warren, she would cancel Hil's biggest liability (Wall Street} and please the far left of our party with one stone, so to speak. I agree with toadefrog, damage is being done, and Joe that voter irregularities are a republican fiction, always have been. Latly, for now, I apologize to gnu, I knew what you were saying as soon as I posted, and I know of no way to unring that bell. Mike

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 06:41 AM

I don't abuse this forum to "take the piss" Greg.....and I don't think you do either.

I agree almost completely with gnu......sorry gnu.

I cannot understand why you people even contemplate voting for the establishment candidate especially with her abysmal record in office AND the availability of a real reformer to vote for, who the polls reckon has a better chance of beating Mr Trump in the presidential election than Mrs Clinton?    None of it makes sense.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 01:46 AM

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't think there have been significant voting irregularities in this primary season. The Republicans had mostly "winner take all" primaries, and that tended to work to Trump's advantage. I think they'd be better off with proportional selection of delegates, like the Democrats have in most states.

-Joe-