What is a folk song? Version 2.0

Subject: RE: What is a folk song?
From: Hrothgar
Date: 16 Apr 02 - 07:03 AM

Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more ..........

Subject: RE: What is a folk song?
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 16 Apr 02 - 06:30 AM

Golden Oldie pop songs are OK - but I don't think they count as folk - and they are sometimes not appropriate at a folk session.
One of the problems is that the non-folkie co-habitants of the pub tend to really like the poppy stuff, and will sing along etc etc. This changes the mood of the evening, and sometimes runs the risk of "dumming down" (sorry - emotive phrase) of the evening as the poppy stuff starts to dominate. Perhaps its because there aren't enough singalong poppy sessions around - so you sometimes end up with an awkward hybrid evening, where the mood lurches from upbeat to downbeat without any real flow.
I used to think that anything anyone wanted to sing was OK in a folkie context - but now I'm not so sure.
Personally I don't mind the old popsongs if they can be blended in somehow & given a "folkie" feel (sorry - ambiguous phrase). What I don't like is the old poppie stuff delivered without any change from its original format - ie just an attempt to reproduce the records.
So - I'm no closer to what IS a folk song - but that's my contribution to what is NOT a folk song.

Kris

Subject: RE: What is a folk song?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Apr 02 - 06:24 AM

Of course we'll never reach a conclusion. But why should we anyway?

Subject: RE: What is a folk song?
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 16 Apr 02 - 05:45 AM

Please be aware that this is a topic that has been discussed in many different forms on Mudcat. "What is a Folk Song?", "What is Folk Music?", "What is Folk?" etc..

Any minute now, someone will post a list of links to many different threads where this was thrashed out over the years.

I'm sure that you'll still get a lot of contributions to this thread, but don't be surprised if some of them are somewhat terse. Doesn't mean it's not an interesting topic, just that some people have already said all they want to say on it..

Still, it's always interesting to see what people think.

Cheers

Steven

Subject: RE: What is a folk song?
From: GUEST,michael batory
Date: 16 Apr 02 - 05:20 AM

In 1955 the International Folk Music Council published this definition of Folk Music which I think still holds well.

".... Folk Music is music which has been submitted to the process of oral transmission. It is the product of evolution and is dependend upon the circumstances of continuity, variation and selection. The term can therefore be applied to music that has been evolved from rudimenary beginnings by a community that has been uninfluenced by art music; and it can also be applied to music which has originated with an individual composer and has subsequently been absorbed into the unwritten, living tradition of a community. But the term does not cover song, dance or tune that has been taken-over ready made and remains unchanged. It is the re-fashioning of the music by the community that gives it its folk character...."

Also Scholes in "The Oxford Companion to Music" offers some extremely interesting ideas as to the constitution of Folk Song. He covers these themes: -

Origin and Meaning of the term Nature of Folk Song History of the Folk Music Movement The Words of Folk Songs Composers' use of Folk Tunes Folk Music as the basis of all Music

Another fascinating text is "Essays in the Study of Folk-Songs", published in 1886 by Countesss Martinengo-Cesaresco.

Regards,

Michael Batory [e-mail]

Subject: RE: What is a folk song?
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 16 Apr 02 - 05:13 AM

Let us all make a pact to something messy and embarassing to the first one to quote "Big" Bill Broonzy in this thread.

Subject: RE: What is a folk song?
From: Jon Bartlett
Date: 16 Apr 02 - 03:52 AM

Sorry, cut myself off somehow. 2. Songs derived from working occupations and made by working people themselves. This group is mostly peasant or working class but there are occasionally other bits and pieces. The group does NOT include songs made by outsiders however sympathetic they are to the occupation except in exceptional circumstances (such as "Singing the Fishing" songs). 3. Songs made for a political purpose, from Chartists, Wobblies, One-Worlders, etc.

These are guidelines rather than strict rules, but it's what my repertoire consists of. My 2c.

Subject: RE: What is a folk song?
From: Jon Bartlett
Date: 16 Apr 02 - 03:47 AM

My working definition: 1. Songs (originally and sometimes still) passed on in a traditional (i.e. oral) manner; traditional songs and ballads, shanties, children's songs, rhymes, shouts, catches, squibs; picket line songs 2.

Subject: What is a folk song?
From: Abuwood
Date: 16 Apr 02 - 03:45 AM

Listening to the thread on singing from books, there is obviously a lot of passion out there about singing.
Can I throw in a thread about material?
What constitutes a folk song?
I am finding it very hard to define, but I know that I feel cheated if I have taken the trouble to find a folk club only to be presented with regurgitated pop songs from my youth. Steve feels the same way about music hall, I don't think it's because he is that old, where as I like the odd music hall song.
So what are your definitions please, how do you choose what to sing? There are so many great song out there.

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