Pubs in decline

Subject: RE: Pubs in decline
From: Essex Girl
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 08:41 AM

In a lot of cases it is neither the Brewer or the publican who are greedy but the big 'pub companies' that have taken over many oubs. I know of several pubs who although they have a good turnover cannot make a living because of the high rents charged by these companies. In some cases they are working for 12 hours a day, seven days a week as they cannot afford to pay staff. In others they give up and the pub gets sold off as a restaurant or private housing. There is nothing more I enjoy than going to a good pub with real ale and good live folk music, but they are getting rare, especially in London. There are still plenty in Kent, although a lot of them are way off public transport routes.(defeats the object really unless you get a crowd together and share a cab or nominate a tee totaller driver for the night)

Subject: RE: Pubs in decline
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 08:24 AM

"You want something for nothing again"

Well, I'm quite inclined to giving something for nothing, in the shape of music sessions.

If we can get some kind of exemptions for unamplified music or people playin for their own enjoyment into the act, tackling Wetherspoons is a good next. Given that they've been highly critical of the Licensing Act they could well be receptive. And at least none of the ones I've seen have giant TV screens.

Subject: RE: Pubs in decline
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 07:41 AM

Breezy who is your statement aimed at?

Subject: RE: Pubs in decline
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 06:56 PM

if there were any justice, loud, disruptive pubs could be fined and quiet ones could be left alone, but that would make too much sense.

They don't make drivers with good driving records pay the same fees and fines as those who drink, speed, etc...do they?

Subject: RE: Pubs in decline
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 06:49 PM

The Publican.

http://www.thepublican.com/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=8590&d=32&h=24&f=23&dateformat=%o%20%B%20%Y

Subject: RE: Pubs in decline
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 06:43 PM

WHAT? YOU WILL HAVE TO SPEAK UP, I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE (bag) PIPED MUSIC!

See also this thread, where there are a number of views from West country licensees.

Further dangers with PELs

Subject: RE: Pubs in decline
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 05:50 PM

I'm glad the noise of the omnipresent MUZAk was at least mentioned, but it doesn't seem to be number one on anyone's list except Harvey's. Well add me to THAT list. Does ANYONE actually WANT piped in music? Did they start doing it because surveys said they SHOULD?

At first I found it really annoying and as the years rolled by and I watched people just shout louder and and louder over the music, I developed some VERRRY negative thoughts about the intellect of said people. Not fair....but the result of it driving me nuts!

So as I asked before, does anyone actually LIKE Pub Muzak?

Rick

Subject: RE: Pubs in decline
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 05:28 PM

I have this song by Miles Wooten echoing in my head as I read this. I surely hope that I get a chance to see ONE traditional English pub before I die...ah, the stories I have heard!

Subject: RE: Pubs in decline
From: breezy
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 05:23 PM

witherspoons have a no live music policy so why you going there?
As their beer is cheap its undercutting the pubs that want to diversify and taking away their trade which could be invested in things like paying for live music
You want something for nothing again
I support pubs that put on live music, and so what if they put it on the drinks,they have to have the finances from the punters somehow, thats business.
Mine charges 75p a pint for orange squash, £2 a pint of coke and they pay the band that entertains you.
Coffee £1.25 surely thats not a lot to pay for an evening entertainment.
Bet you only go to freebees , no wonder you dont get gigs, bet you dont go to many folk clubs either to see and hear good artistes.
I even have a meal at the ones that support me.

Subject: RE: Pubs in decline
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 05:10 PM

That's another handy thing about Wetherspoons, a pint of decent beer (Sheoherd Neame's Spitfire) there is £1.35.

And up in Whitby in the Plough during the festival it was £1.25.

Subject: RE: Pubs in decline
From: Gareth
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 04:41 PM

It's the greed of the Brewers. Lets kill the myth that it is high Excise Duty (TAX) and VAt that is the responsibility for high beer prices.

The Excise duty on an average strength pint of beer - say Sheppard Neames ordinary Bitter, or Bass Hancocks HB is about 26p per pint.

Price range in South Wales in a Pub - between £2.10 and £1.60. That is a large spread 0.50p. The publican will buy it in at about, dependant on contact, volumn etc at between 0.80 and 0.90 a pint, duduct ullage and apply his margins, paying for staff rent etc, and there is not a great deal.

Now the question I ask is why it is possible to go down to the supermarket and buy the beer retail and in cans, for less than our local publican has to pay the brewers ????

And as for London, or Cardiff center prices !!!!!!!

Gareth

Subject: RE: Pubs in decline
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 01:07 PM

I think what put me off the most is the smoke. If I go to a good session my voice only survives for a couple of hours. Soon after that it becomes as croaky as a 60-a-day-smoker!

Eeek

Subject: RE: Pubs in decline
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 01:02 PM

Our Wetherspoons in Harlow is actually quite civilised - the bars up one end with the smokey atmosphere and the shouting, but up the other end there's a big fire and a wall full of books (some of them fascinating, all higgledy piggledy) and a chance to read or talk in peace. It's in what used to be the Employment Exchange.

And round the back of the building there's the office of the local project for helping alcoholics, which strikes me as a neat bit of serendipitous planning.

Subject: RE: Pubs in decline
From: lady penelope
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 12:51 PM

I live in walthamstow and the main reason I don't go to pubs anymore is because all the local pubs have big screen sports on most days of the week. The pubs that don't are few and tend to be pubs like Wetherspoons who tend to sell drinks on a bargin basis. This in turn tends to lead to these pubs being used "filing stations" before people go off for the evening. Nowhere near me is there a pub where you can sit and have a quiet pint in a convivial atmosphere.
I don't mind the evenings at the end of the week being noisy, but when you have a choice of big screen sports or videos or people drinking as large a quantity of alcohol possible in the shortest possible time for most of the week, you end up with people , like me, who can't be bothered to go to the pub at all.
Actually the cost in a pub and the drinks available are secondary in my choice of going to a pub.
Like many other people, I now only go when there is a specific reason like a gig.
Much as I love the idea of the public house and would hate to see it end as an institution, publicans have only themselves to blame if they choose to appeal to the lowest common denomenator in order to boost their sales.

TTFN M'Lady P.

Subject: RE: Pubs in decline
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 12:13 PM

Greed of the landlords too, when it comes to soft drinks. What you'd expect is that the profit margin would be set at the same level for a pint of been or a pint of lemonade or cola, but instead they up the proice of the soft drink till it costs the same as a pint of beer.

It sounds to me as if Taliesn has only been in yoof pubs, which are enough to put anyone off pubs.

The trouble about the whole things starting off again, with people openig their own houses for drinking companions to crowd in, is that these days we've got the law breathing down our necks to stop that kind of thing, so it's got to be done on the QT, and people daren't risk being a public house.

Subject: RE: Pubs in decline
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 11:16 AM

(quote)
"Might be different up north but the bands that I have seen are certainly rubbish!"
Well Squire Benbows ,perhaps you've just defined the principal reason for the pub decline. Serves the yobos right for supporting such crap , but then alcoholic culture breeds its own decline.
Again, I site the Russian model.

Your witness counselor ;-)

Subject: RE: Pubs in decline
From: Steve Benbows protege
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 11:05 AM

I do agree with Fran but for us poor buggers who live in London? Village halls. I don't drive.........
Closest thing I have got to the price of one of those is my working mens clubs or the Legion club. Both of which are smoke dens and the bands they have on in there these days you could start another thread on how crap they are!! Might be different up north but the bands that I have seen are certainly rubbish! And I am liberal in my approach to music!

Subject: RE: Pubs in decline
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 10:40 AM

I have to agree with Fran about genuine folk ( & jazz ) club venues along with village hall concerts.
Pubs go hand in pants along with hooliganism. If folks are chooin' their boozin' at home then so be it. isn't that how trsaditional pubs began? Those with larger homes to accomodate friends & guests created a cordial gathering.

If Pubs ae closing in the UK due to lack of patronage why is this seen a bad thing ? Yeah some of us were all brought up on the myths & legends of of the Rock pubs that were the primordial brew for groups like The Who at Sheppard's Bush.
Gee, then ,wasn't Keith Moon dead in his 30's from his boozin' depleted body.
Russian rampant alcoholism's fallout not enough of a mascot for the Eurasian culture?

Subject: RE: Pubs in decline
From: Steve Benbows protege
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 10:40 AM

Harvey, once again it is a privilege! Thank you both for agreeing. As a non-smoker, non-drinker ( AND YES I DID USED TO DO BOTH IN EXCESS!) i now find pubs a very anti- intellectual place to go. Ther are exceptions to this but they are very far and few between. Pubs these days are aimed at the prats of my age who are more concerned about getting drunk then spending quality time with friends etc at weekends.
I say I am privileged in having the Brewery Tap where my guv. Steve Benbow gigs Fridays and Sundays and is a quaint musicians pub.
Must shoot tea is being served!!

Subject: RE: Pubs in decline
From: Fran
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 10:24 AM

I agree totally, I do not drink or smoke and I find pubs smelly, smoky, noisy, and sometimes dirty, My clothes stink when I get home, I only go if there is a reason ie singer or folk club.

I find Folk clubs and concerts in village halls are much nicer and the soft drinks are cheaper at village hall bars:-)

Subject: RE: Pubs in decline
From: harvey andrews
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 10:03 AM

Exactly, it's the greed of the big brewers and the Exchequer. If a round of drinks for five is the same as the price of a cd..what's the choice? And you can't even have a decent conversation anymore in most pubs for the noise of the TV/Jukebox etc. It's just not worth the money for what isn't a very pleasant experience, particularly if you're not young, out on the hunt, or teetotal. (soft drinks cost more than petrol by the litre)

Subject: RE: Pubs in decline
From: Steve Benbows protege
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 09:52 AM

That what you get for alcohol being sold in every bloody shop you go into. Supermarkets selling crates and crates of booze. Now got to the stage where it's cheaper to buy in cans than in good old fashioned pints.( IN GLASSES NOT PLASTIC!) I am only 22yrs old but I have noticed the rapid closure of pubs and the excessive consumption of alcohol ALL DAY. you only have to walk down a street and someone will walk pass with a can or bottle in their hand. Why then go to the pub and be ripped off?
I am tee-total and it pisses me off that I get ripped off every time I go out? Nearly two quid for a pint of coke! that's nearly three bottles in the supermarket? I can understand it but it is a great English institution that we should not be loosing!

Subject: RE: Pubs in decline
From: Willie-O
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 09:51 AM

I can't figure this out. Or maybe I can. British-style pubs seem to be OPENING at a rate of 20 a week in Canada. That's where you're losin' em to.

It's the New British Invasion. And it's OK by me.

W-O

Subject: Pubs in decline
From: ET
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 09:42 AM

On the news a few minutes ago was a report that CAMRA described as a disaster - pubs are closing in the uk at the rate of 20 per week on average and thousands of villiages no longer have a pub.

The reason - changing drinking habits - one in 4 no longer goes to the local but goes on boose cruises and drinks at home (disaster for the exchequer).

The pubs that thrive - those that diversify to attract - by food, entertinment etc.

Interesting. No doubt will be greatly helped by the Licensing Bill requiring big increases in fees and regulations all the way!