Origins: Ching Chong Chinaman Song

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Adam
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 05:54 AM

Another apology. I was quoting from memory of a production seen 48 years ago. The Geisha was by Sidney Jones; there was only one song by Monckton (not Chin Chin Chinaman). The complete libretto can be found at www.staff.ncl.ac.uk/fraser.charlton/edwardian.html. The Chinaman song is in Act II.
Adam

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 05:54 PM

Can't find original Geisha Girl. Do you have the original lyrics? Be nice to have them both.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Adam
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 05:11 PM

Sorry, Q.
I wasn't trying to provide an origin for the expression, just for John Mehlberg's song which echoes the Geisha Girl version in text, and presumably in melody.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 02:01 PM

Hi, guest Adam. The Ching Chung Chinaman expression is older than Monckton's "Geisha Girl" as well as "Chu Chin Chow." Lionel Monckton was producing musicals in the period 1898-1920. Moreover your words are a parody (unless it was some undocumented piece he did while at Oxford).

It has to be older than 1873 (Ching Chow Chung sheet music) and the 1880 ("The Chinee Laundryman" sheet music, with its chorus of Ching Chong opium).

I would like to find even older references, but it already seems certain that the expression started with the first Ching and Chong males who came to America.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Adam McNaughtan
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 01:34 PM

The original song comes from Lionel Monckton's "The Geisha Girl". The chorus was:

Chin Chin Chinaman, welly welly sad!
Me aflaid allee trade welly welly bad;
No-ee joke, blokee bloke, makee shutee shop;
Chin Chin Chinaman, chop chop chop.

One Glasgow playground version went:

Chin Chin Chinaman feeling very ill;
Walkee walkee down the street, buy a Beecham's pill;
Walkee walke home again, go to bed at night,
Wake up in the morning with his shirt all shite.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 02:58 PM

"Oh Ching Chong opium, taffy on a stick," first line of chorus of "The Chinee Laundryman," 1880, by Frank Dumont, pub. in Philadelphia by Chas. F. Escher Jr. and sung by Charles Backus of the San Francisco Minstrels.
Sheet music at Levy Sheet Music Collection. Very difficult to read.
The Chinee Laundryman

This puts "Ching Chong" firmly in the 19th century.

It is extremely doubtful that "Chu Chin Chow" contributed anything to the 'Ching Chong' rhymes and songs.
It was based on Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves, by its book composer, Australian Oscar Asche. Two or three (more?) films followed (1923, USA, MGM) and in England. It was a very popular musical in the USA and performed by amateur groups, including students in high school.

It has remained a cult musical, and a DVD is available from House of Opera, with the original music by Norton.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 12:06 PM

Ching cartoon, Harper's Weekly, 1894:
Ching

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 11:57 AM

Forgot- Source of sheet music, American Memory, http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/cgi-bin/flipomatic/cic/brk5431
Ching Chong

A Mr. P. Chong ran a restaurant in Honolulu many years ago. The name used to be common among Chinese, but I think some changed to another family name.

"Ching A Ling A Loo" by Max Hoffman was popular and issued as sheet music in 1901.

"Ching Chow Chung" by Carl Hess was published in San Francisco as sheet music in 1873.
No lyrics were published with the music.
This could be among the earliest mentions of the name. At American Memory.

Subject: Lyr Add: CHING CHONG
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 11:37 AM

I still think 'Ching Chong' goes back before the 1916 musical "Chu Chin Chow." Still looking, but found this sheet music from c. 1917.

CHING CHONG
Words J. Will Callahan, Music Lee S. Roberts

Way out in old San Fran
There is a Chinaman
Who's known for miles around,
Wonderful place he keeps
Down where he eats and sleeps
Way underneath the ground;
Each night the festive chinks
Come there to wink and blink,
And dream away the hours,
They sing this funny song
While they are born along
On beds of poppy flow'rs.

Chorus:
Ching Chong, Oh Mister Ching Chong,
You're the King of Chinatown,
Ching Chong, I love your sing-song
When you have turned the lights all down;
Ching Chong, just let me swing 'long
Thru the realms of drowsy-land,
Dreaming while stars are beaming
Oh Mister Ching Chong, sing-song man.

When you're in Frisco Town
Don't fail to stop around
And see this Ching Chong man,
Wonderful things you'll learn
Down where the torches burn
He'll show you all he can;
Then when the time is ripe
He'll fill your little pipe
And then a light he'll bring,
Gently you'll float away
Far out on Slumber Bay,
And softly you will sing.

Pub. by Lee S. Roberts, Fine Arts Bldg., Chicago, c. 1917 (undated); copy at Bancroft Library, Univ. California, Berkeley. Cover shows man with pigtail decorating Chinese lanterns.

---

Note from Joe Offer (7 June 2012): somebody sent me a link to a YouTube Video (click) of this song.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 10:07 AM

The musical play "Chu Chin Chow," by Australian-born Oscar Asche (lyricist) and Frederic Norton (composer), opened in London in 1916 and ran for nearly 5 years. There were later productions in the US and Australia, but they were less successful. See PeoplePlay UK, Guide to the Musical Theatre, and National Library of Australia.

The Internet Movie Database (IMDb) lists 2 film versions made in 1923 (a silent musical?) and 1934.

I can't definitely identify any song that was the source of CHING CHONG CHINAMAN, but the most likely-sounding title is I AM CHU CHIN CHOW OF CHINA.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 02:42 PM

The third and fourth verses may well be later additions. They don't include "pigeon English" like "him" and "policee-man".

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 02:37 PM

One of the books of rugby songs from the 60s "Rugby Songs" or "Son of Rugby Songs" had (as far as I recall)

Chin Chin Chinaman, strolling down the Strand
Stony broke, wants a poke, penis in his hand
Up comes 'Poxy Lilly', doesn't give a rap.
Three days later Clap Clap Clap.

(ttto "I'm a little teapot" or similar)

Nigel

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 02:18 PM

"Hot cock" is a synonym for "nonsense" or "crap". "Jack" is a synonym for "pox".

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: Fliss
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 02:17 PM

This is what we used to chant in the playground in the 1950's in Shropshire.

Chin Chin Chinaman bought a paper doll
He washed it and dressed it and then it caught a cold
He sent for the doctor
The doctor couldnt come
Because he had a pimple on his rum tum tum.

fliss

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 02:13 PM

Digressing, but English slang has become pretty well universal wherever English is spoken. Hot cock is widespread (several meanings, from eager to the real stuff to the clap and others, rooting is a common mis-use of rutting (pigs do both), and it takes pages to cover all of the meanings of jack, from an insult to money to penis to heroin to gull- to whatever.

Although the doggeral reminded me of current use of ching-chong in rap, there is none of the rap form there. My remark was not correct.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 02:09 PM

There are three versions at The Online Dictionary of Playground Slang. Not very nice, but interesting.
-Joe Offer, who didn't talk like that or he'd get his mouth washed out-

Ching Chong Chinaman sitting on the grass,
Along came a bumblebee and stung him on his..
Ask no questions, tell no lies,
I saw a policeman doing up his...
flies are a nuisance, bugs are even worse,
And this is the end of my silly little verse.


Ching chong chinaman went to milk a cow.
Ching chong chinaman didn't know how.
Ching chong chinaman pulled the wrong tit.
Ching chong china man got covered in shit.



Chin chin chinaman bought a little shop
And all he sold was peppermint rock
He wee'd in a bottle and called it pop
Chin chin chinaman bought a little shop

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 01:44 PM

There was a playground song going around when I was a kid in Southern Wisconsin of Ching Chong Chinaman that seemed pretty dirty when I was 8 years old, but nothing as racy as this version. I remember all the words, but am content to let it fade out of memory.

And then of course there was "Two Irishmen men, two Irishmen, sitting in a ditch, one called the other a dirty son of a Peter Murphy, Peter Murphy.." And on it went, with the offensive word at the end of each line changed to the beginning word of the next line. I never thought it as racist, and other than the first line, it had nothing to do with any particular nationality..

As for the Chinaman song, I don't want to be any part of passing it on..

Jerry

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Displaced Camelotian
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 01:23 PM

"Hot cock," "rooting," and "jack," taken together, seem Australian to me. I suppose they could be British as well.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 12:22 PM

Wonder why Guest says the language is very Australian. Don't see any particular clue.
The old playground chants (a typical one in Steinbeck's "Cannery Row") go back to the exclusion days if not to an earlier time when Chinese came to climb the Golden Mountain. "Ching-Chong" was recently used derisively by the basketballer Shaquil O'Neal (see link below) and seemingly is popular with black rappers.

This 'song,' however, seems forced and derivative. Guest noted its fairly recent vintage. It perhaps came from the black rappers.

Nikkeiview

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: Anglo
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 11:56 AM

This is a parody. The original song is from a musical, Chu Chin Chow, which enjoyed considerable success in London during WW1. As I recall the lyrics are about a Chinese laundry - the plot is based on a story from Scherezade. Since these days anything that refers to any sort of racial stereotype is offensive (simply defining a laundry as Chinese would get you into trouble) the words might be sonsidered rracist. At the time they were not. Unlike this parody.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: Metchosin
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 10:41 AM

you've got to be kidding, why would anyone want to record racist crap like that?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Displaced Camelotian
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 10:35 AM

Most unpleasant. You might like to know, however, that the language is very Australian, which suggests where it originated. Also, waterbeds became fashionable about 1970. Popular culture allusions to sadomasochistic fetishes seem to have begun in the mid to late 70s
and have proliferated since then.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: John M.
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 12:56 AM

Yes, I did a google search before I posted. I am looking for others who know this as a SONG not just a chant or school yard rhyme. I wish to find other versions of this song and to confirm the tune used from other informants.

If you know Ching Chong Chinaman as a song, please contact me at [e-mail]

If you are looking at this thread after two weeks the email will become invalid and you will have to type it out ( john AT mehlberg D-O-T com).

Sincerely,

John Mehlberg
~
My bawdy songs, toasts and recitations website: www.immortalia.com

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 12:21 AM

Hi, John - This Google Search will give you lots of versions of the "Ching Chong Chinaman" chant. I get the impression that it was mostly a playground chant - I haven't seen one as extensive as the one you posted.

Lingenfelter/Dwyer's Songs of the American West has many anti-Chinese songs, mostly "John Chinaman" songs.

Songs like this make me very uneasy - but I guess they're part of our history, and may serve to remind us that the "good old days" may not have been any better than the times we have now.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: ADD: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: John M.
Date: 18 Jul 04 - 11:50 PM

I did a field recording of an anonymous singer who called from Australia. He sang the following bawdy song

           Ching-Chung Chinaman  Size: 166KB  Time: 0:55

Does anyone else remember versions of this song (see lyrics below)? If yes, would you be willing to sing it for me? You can reach me at [e-mail].

I collect bawdy folksongs and if you know any bawdy songs I would like to record them and, if you like, I can make an anonymous recording.

Sincerely,

John Mehlberg
~
My bawdy songs, toasts and recitations website: www.immortalia.com

 

            CHING CHONG CHINAMAN

Chorus:

         Ching Chong Chinaman runs a brothel shop
         Him afraid, lose his trade, they all got the pox
         Now he broke, now we joke, while he shut his shop
         Ching Chong Chinaman, a lot of hot cock 

   Chinaman had twenty women working for him there
   Some root on the floor, some root on the chair
   Then one night they got stopped, Police'ee' man he come
   Saw what was going on and join in the fun

   Chinaman had torture room on the second floor
   Some liked to be whipped and chained by a whore
   And he's got a hay-bed and a water-bed too
   To ad that little extra to your screw

   This story may not seem very real to you
   If you're feeling down and out and you need a screw
   Go to China's place but when you get back
   Be sure that while you're there, you didn't get the JACK