BS: Kofi Annan says Iraq war was illegal

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan says Iraq war was illegal
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Sep 04 - 03:34 PM

Oh, well, Wolfgang, I may not have actually PUT Bush in that line, but you know he really was in it by implication. :-)

Here are some more examples of wars launched by aggressor nations:

Saddam Hussein's attack on Iran (with the indirect assistance and encouragement of the USA).

The USA's gradual, step-by-step intervention in Vietnam which took place over nearly 2 decades.

China's border attack on Vietnam not too long after the USA was out of the picture there.

The USA's gobbling up of most of the northern areas of Mexico.

The USA's gobbling up of the overseas empire of Spain in 1898.

The USA's unsuccessful attempt to invade and "liberate" Canada in 1812-1814.

Russia's attack on Finland in 1939.

Russia's occupation of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania not long after that.

Japan's attacks on: China, the Dutch East Indies, the Phillipines, Hong Kong, Malaya, and so on in the 30's and early 40's.

Israel's assault on its Arab neighbours in 1967.

Egypt and Syria's assault on Israel in 1973.

Israel's incursions into Lebanon in the 80's.

Argentina's invasion of the Falklands in the 80's.

And so on, and so on...

The point I am making, Wolfgang, is that virtually every major power, and many minor powers have launched illegal wars of aggression whenever:

1. they thought they could gain something by it.

2. they thought they could get away with it.

3. they thought they could win.

Bush and Blair's war in Iraq is just the latest example of major powers doing it...for typically spurious reasons. They had the gall to pretend they were defending themselves from a genuine threat!

Hitler had that sort of gall too. He had the German people convinced at the time that the war on Poland was a defence of German people and German national security. It's really quite amazing what people will believe when Big Brother tells them so, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan says Iraq war was illegal
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Sep 04 - 03:34 PM

as posted in another thread, Kerry said that he had done things that were against the Geneva convention. Thus, the World Court could prosecute him. How does making a true statment take the cake?

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan says Iraq war was illegal
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Sep 04 - 03:28 PM

beardedbruce, you take the cake.

****************************************8

Seymour Hersh wrote: "A successful strategy has always counted on 'dividing your enemies and uniting your friends'. Bush has united our enemies and divided our friends."

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan says Iraq war was illegal
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Sep 04 - 03:17 PM

And he wanted to keep people like Kerry out of jail, for admitted war crimes.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan says Iraq war was illegal
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Sep 04 - 03:12 PM

One nice thing about haveing the biggest stick is that international law can't touch ya'...

Why did Bush not sign onto the World Court?

(Oh yeah, he didn't want the United States hands tied in defending itself against 3rd rate militaries...)

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan says Iraq war was illegal
From: Wolfgang
Date: 16 Sep 04 - 02:19 PM

Well done, Little Hawk, of all the many illegal wars of the last century you just pick three and the three names to write down by pure chance happen to be Hitler, Mussolini and Saddam Hussein. However, I would have repeated the name Bush in that line to make the association a bit more forceful.

Since this is the most recent thread about Iraq and I don't want to start a new one, here's an interesting and worrying comment from the Guardian:
Far graver than Vietnam
(and I am pondering whether the adjective 'grave' was chosen on purpose...)

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan says Iraq war was illegal
From: sledge
Date: 16 Sep 04 - 11:16 AM

If you want sabotage just look at the shameless financial manipulation of the UN by the US government over the years as mentioned previoulsy on the 1000 gone thread.

Here is the relevent part of that post in full.

-----------------------------------------------------
I just think that the whole response by the Bush administration was excessive, so he ignored a few UN resolutions, thats not something that new in the history of the UN, the US was as one point in serious debt to the UN by failing to pay up its financial obligations to the tune of $365 million in the early 90's, this of course was period when Washington sort of liked the UN thanks to their support following the invasion of Kuwait, they only did so "when they saw fit" but not enough to counter their eventual debt of around $1.5 billion. Obligations to the UN should be a 2 way street then, resolutions or not I think.

The size of this debt has been part of US goverment policy for quite a while, when the US could command a majority in the UN which they did for some time, only those unfriendly to the US were pressured for payment as was the case with the Soviet union. However as their influence waned they sought to regain it by refusing to pay, putting pressure on the UN that way. Its a big stick to carry. While there are other countries who are in arrears none are ever as in debt as the US, who, could more easily settle her debt.
-----------------------------------------------------------

If you are going to hold fast to UN resolutione etc. when they serve your needs and prefernces you should accept their rebukes as well.



Sledge

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan says Iraq war was illegal
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Sep 04 - 11:00 AM

The UN was set up to prevent situations like Iraq under Saddam from happening- but Saddam choose to violate the cease fire and sanctions the UN had imposed. THEN, the UN refused to enforce it's own resolutions. How is that for sabatoge?

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan says Iraq war was illegal
From: freda underhill
Date: 16 Sep 04 - 10:57 AM

Kofi Annan is a brave man. Not gaining a consensus on an issue at the UN is not a reason to act outside its charters. Invading a country without UN consent, and then criticising the UN, is undermining and sabotaging the organisation that was set up to prevent just those invasions.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan says Iraq war was illegal
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Sep 04 - 10:53 AM

On the other hand, if the International court says it is illegal, why then it must be... You know, the court that could convict Kerry of those admitted violations of the Geneva Convention.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan says Iraq war was illegal
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Sep 04 - 10:51 AM

and he says that there is no genocide going on in Sudan- because thenhe would HAVE to take action. Kofi Annan has always objected to any action on any problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan says Iraq war was illegal
From: Nerd
Date: 16 Sep 04 - 10:45 AM

Not like George Bush, who is so obviously eminently competent to f. our troops in Iraq and make every mistake imaginable.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan says Iraq war was illegal
From: GUEST,Hugh Jampton
Date: 16 Sep 04 - 10:39 AM

Kofi Annan also said that Zambia would win the Cresta Run but what does he know? But seriously, he presided over that gutless talking shop, The United Nations that passed resolutions concerning Iraq, procrastinated then proceded to implement the square root of f.a. less ten so what does one expect.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan says Iraq war was illegal
From: robomatic
Date: 16 Sep 04 - 10:35 AM

The definitive ruling courtesy of the guy who let Rwandan genocide go unabated and now lets Darfur genocide continue. Another paper pushing incompetent with all the answers.

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan says Iraq war was illegal
From: Peace
Date: 16 Sep 04 - 01:16 AM

DUI is a crime. Someone gets killed and DUI is still a crime and someone else gets killed and DUI is . . . .

Why do people rob banks? Right. That's where the money is.

So, the war was--and presumably is--illegal. And the next move is?

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan says Iraq war was illegal
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 11:43 PM

Doh!

Subject: RE: BS: Kofi Annan says Iraq war was illegal
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 10:56 PM

Well, yes, obviously it was illegal. Just like Hitler's attack on Poland or Mussolini's attack on Ethiopia or Saddam Hussein's attack on Kuwait.

The last thing an aggressor nation is ever really concerned about is legality...although they will try hard to create a facade of legality, of course, because their public must be persuaded that it's "a just war". Ha, ha.

Subject: BS: Kofi Annan says Iraq war was illegal
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 10:44 PM

From today's Boston Globe:

"The U.N. Charter allows nations to take military action with Security Council approval as an explicit enforcement action, such as during the Korean War and the 1991 Gulf War.

But in 2003, in the build-up to the Iraq war, the United States dropped an attempt to get a Security Council resolution approving the invasion when it became apparent it would not pass.

At the time, Annan had underlined the lack of legitimacy for a war without U.N. approval, saying: ''If the United States and others were to go outside the Security Council and take unilateral action they would not be in conformity with the Charter.''

On Wednesday, after being asked three times whether the lack of council approval for the war meant it was illegal, he said: ''From our point of view and the [UN ] Charter point of view it was illegal.''

He also said that the wave of violence engulfing Iraq puts in doubt the national elections scheduled for January.

There could not be ''credible elections if the security conditions continue as they are now,'' he told the BBC."