Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: greg stephens
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 10:05 AM

JulieF: the Guising you are referring to would have been largely Scottish in the recent centuries, I am sure. Most of the old Halloween customs in England transferred to Guy Fawkes night(Nov 5) and Mischief night(Nov 4). Certainly, all the bad behaviour/going round at night occurred on Nov 4 in north lancashire and the Lakes till fairly recently. Now it is drifting towards the nights leading up to halloween...which is of course where it all started, before Guy Fawkes chose Nov 5 for his escapade.
   Incidentalyy, in relation to the licensed bad behaviour aspect of the time of year: the fireworks let off by naughty boys has been going since around Oct 1 in Stoke.
    Anybody else spotted any interesting signs of seasonal activities?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 09:48 AM

Ref - I don't believe people are romancticising Guy Fawkes when they make and display the effigies. The whole point of the celebration is to toss him onto a fire and celebrate the fact that he did NOT succeed.

In the Eastern part of the US, Guy Fawkes day complete with effigy roasting is still celebrated in some towns. My family is from NYC but my due to my Dad's posting ( he was a cop), I spent part of my childhood about 80 miles North of the City in predominently Protestant town which had an annual Fox Hunt, Guy Fawks day and a few other unusual observances. The Guys there weren;t merely burned, before tossing them on the fire, they were often stabbed, kicked, beaten and otherwise abused.

I wonder if there is any connection to Guy Fawkes Day and the American tradtions of Homecoming bonfires at High Schools and colleges. Homecoming celebrations can be held anywhere from early october to mid-november depending upon what part of the US you are in. Usually, an effigy is made of a member of the opposing football team to be played the next day and it is similarly tortured before being tossed on the bonfire.

Any thoughts?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: JulieF
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 06:11 AM

Personaly I'm not particularly bothered by Guy Fawkes night but can report that I saw at least two guys on the outskirts of Sheffield on Sunday lunchtime.    I'm more concerned about the loss of the proper halloween tradition of 'Guising'   When I was growing up we dressed up. wnet round peoples houses with our turnip lanterns and performed our party pieces to be rewarded with fruit and nuts and sweets.

I think it fairly local to Scotland - possibly the north of england as well but when I moved to South Yorkshire when I was 12 in 1975 the tradition did not seem to be there.

Currently we get trick and treaters.   I will give fruit and sweets but not money and I must admit that I've resorted to Pumpkins for lanterns as you don't get as many blisters hollowing them out and I do a faily good chili pumpkin soup.

I am assuming that trick or treating came across to America with the Scots or perhaps other North Europeans. Does anyone know of similar traditions in other Northern European countires ?

J

Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: greg stephens
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 05:55 AM

Bit worrying that nobody else has seen one yet. Is the old custom dying out? I would hate to think that it is going to vanish completely, to be replaced with children in capes and plastic witch hats and devil's tridents bought at Wooly's, saying "Tricj or treat" because that's what they do in American TV programmes.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 05:25 AM

Mind you, now you mention it, I've not seen Guido for a while...

Guido dances with Albion Morris and due to a family committment (and he should have been committed) we missed going to Belgium to see them perform.

For those interested, Guido means wide.

LTS

Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Flash Company
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 05:19 AM

Remember as a kid being asked by one lady to sell her the clothes our Guy was dressed in as they were better than the ones her husband wore to work.

FC

Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Valmai Goodyear
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 03:43 AM

If you are interested in Sussex Bonfire, go to http://www.lewesbonfirecouncil.org.uk/index.html
which is the site run by the (now) six Bonfire Societies in Lewes, East Sussex, UK.

You hardly ever see Guys in Lewes apart from the magnificent moving one displayed by Cliffe Bonfire Society when they are selling programmes on the streets in the weeks approaching The Fifth.

Don't attempt to drive through Lewes on Saturday 4th. November this year as the roads will be closed from about 4.00 pm onwards. Parking is impossible.

Valmai
Lewes

Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 02:27 AM

The south east coast of Britain still retains a lot of its Bonfire Societies - groups of men who would raise money for one huge firework display in their town. They build and burn a huge effigy in Battle although this has caused some controversy in the past, over their choice of 'Guy'. It's usually some political personage or general 'Celebrity Twit'. The last year I went, it was Margaret Thatcher, complete with handbag (shows how long ago that was!!).

These days they raise money for local charities but the fireworks are some of the best along the south coast.

LTS

Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Rowan
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 10:27 PM

Cho;
Guy, Guy, Guy,
string him up on high!
String him on a lamp post
and there let him die!
Holler boys, holler boys,
God save the King!
Holler boys, holler boys,
God save the King!

And I haven't seen a Guy anywhere in Australia now, for at least 40 years. They used to be a feature of street bonfires but then everybody got rid of firecrackers and started worrying about bushfires.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Ref
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 07:48 PM

For the sake of bewildered Americans, Guy Fawkes was a Catholic who plotted, with several other prominent Anglo-Catholics, to blow up the houses of Parliament, killing the King and Parliament. They came extremely close to succeeding and imposing a Catholic dictatorship on England. This was also the goal, later and unrelated, of those who pushed the cause of "Bonnie Prince Charlie." Why people now romanticize these people is beyond me. The freedom that we now possess, tainted though it sometimes be, is the result of these brigands FAILING to destroy one of the most socially advanced governments of its time.

If you want to know what a "Guy" looks like, check out "V For Vendetta." V always wears a Guy mask.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 05:42 PM

This one I saw is a bit early, but in fact it is half term so the kids I have time. I actually saw two today, one of the old style(as described in my first post) and the newstyle one with the red plastic mask. Surprised nobody else has seen one yet.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 05:18 PM

I would not expect to see guys before halloween at least. Obviously the American idea of Halloween is now becoming popular over here and probably appeals more to kids than Guy Fawkes does now the health and safety folk have taken the fun out of it. I can honestly say Halloween used to come and go without acknowlement until the last ten years but we now get quite a few trick or treaters turning out and shops are cashing in big time.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 04:09 PM

Outside a railway station was always the best pitch in town. You used to be able to buy lurid coloured (very rough) cardboard masks that most guys donned. Haven't seen them in the shops either.

But the place is whizz banging with fireworks already.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Metchosin
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 04:06 PM

well Banjo-Flower, sometimes the childhood portion of my brain just trips into phonetic mode, when when I put my adult brain on hold. It gives pedants something with which to justify their existence. LOL

Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 03:48 PM

We have a variation in east London... the smallest kid or best actor gets dressed in old clothes and a mask, slumps down in a corner or against a wall and his mates berate passers by for a 'penny' although they expect rather more and if you try to give them a penny, they'll like as not spit at you or call you names. It's frowned upon here now as 'demanding money with menaces'... the same fate a London Borough tried to put on 'trick or treating'...

LTS

Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Banjo-Flower
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 03:43 PM

Metchosin Just to be pedantic it's not "Guy Fox " but Guy Fawkes the only man to enter the British Parliament with honest intentions
And to answer the original question Greg no I have not seen a Guy for a couple of years now as we seem to be becoming over run by trick or treaters instead, another tradition vanishing

Gerry

Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 03:20 PM

:), Ron

Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 03:18 PM

then again, we do have a big party on the 4th of July! We won that one!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 03:16 PM

No, we do not have anything like it.

We do have a cup of tea each year to remember the Boston Tea Party.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Metchosin
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 03:15 PM

My daughter and I have the honour of making the Guy this year for my cousin's Guy Fox bonfire. We're sticking to the tradtional stuff that we did as a kids. The base is an old dress dummy, but the rest is newspapers and old clothing and the head, a slightly deflated basketball that's been lying in the dog run for about ten years. I'm hoping his head might explode.

My cousin resurrected the family tradition a few years back, in honour of a beloved uncle, who along with his love of a good pint, his loud call in the middle of festivities of, " IS EVRYBODY HAPPY?!!! made Hallowe'en extra special for us when we were small, by importing and incorporating his very English traditions into our yearly quest for candy.

I think we make the neighbours very nervous as we don't light the bonfire and fireworks on Hallowe'en, which is the usual ritual here on the west coast of Canada.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Dave Earl
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 03:02 PM

Go to Lewes in Sussex to see how it should be done. Nov 4 this year (cos 5th is Sunday)

Please to Remember the 5th of November
Gunpowder treason and Plot.........

Dave

Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Bernard
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 03:02 PM

I'm sure things could get worse without Parliament... think of all those unemployed politicians with nothing to do... at least with Parliament we've a fair idea of where they are and what they're doing!!

Politics:

Poly = many
Ticks = parasitic insects

Last time some kids asked me for a 'penny for the guy' they accepted my penny, but wouldn't give me the guy...

Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: Little Robyn
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 02:28 PM

There haven't been Guys in New Zealand (at least where I live) for years. We always made one when I was a kid and I helped my daughter get into it 15-20 years ago but kids today seem to dress up and do the Trick or treat thing instead. The shops are full of Halloween costumes and party gear. I guess it's a similar tradition but I prefer the Guy Fawkes songs and the fireworks.

A loaf of bread to stuff his head
A pound of cheese to choke him,
A bottle of beer to wash it down
And a jolly good fire to roast him.
Guy, Guy, Guy, penny for the Guy
If you haven't got a penny, a ha'penny will do,
If you haven't got a ha'penny, God bless you!

I always thought Guy Fawkes had the right idea - let's get rid of parliament. Could things get any worse without it?
Robyn

Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: jojofolkagogo
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 01:52 PM

Well, greg, interesting indeed.

You know, I was ashamed to see all the Christmas (oh no, not the "C" word !!!) stuff in our shops BEFORE halloween - something that has not occurred, at least down here in London/Essex ever before. Well not to my knowledge anywayup !.

But, now you mention it, I have not seen ANY guys at all, I have noticed that the custom is fading somewhat, and I usuall see one, or maybe if I am lucky, two, but have not see ANY.

Some customs die, and some live on, let's be thankful that FOLK lives on !!!!!!!!!

Anyway, we have managed to resurrect the Plough Monday theme, mainly at Whittlesey Strawby ...

Loved the question from WFDU Ron - I take it he IS from the US of A and that they do not have anything like it over there ...

Jo-Jo

Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 11:57 AM

A Guy is an effigy(nominally of Guy Fawkes) displayed by kids in England in the period leading up to November 5, in the hope of collecting money. Normally mounted in a gocart/pram or similar for speedy getaway from rival gangs, irate shop-keepers etc. The custom (like all Bonfie Night activities) is under threat from massive promotion of American style witch/devil/scream/pumpkin Halloween stuff.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 11:11 AM

"Guys"??

Subject: Folklore: Seen any Guys this year?
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 10:54 AM

I have just seen my first this year, today in Stoke-on-Trent(England). An intriguing new design(new for round here, anywhere).In recent years Guys have been made by stuffing garments with newspaper(or other old garments). The heads have generally been carrier bags, stuffed with something, and a very badly drawn rudimentary face on a piece of paper, stuck on the bag.
   The one today, however, was interesting in three ways. Firstly, the proprietor was a little girl, they are normally boys. Secondly, the body was not specially made, but was a very large teddy bear, dressed up in kid's clothes. The face was I felt the most interesting cultural development. Echoing the general takeover of this time of year by American-style Halloween marketing, the girl had used a red plastic devil mask to stick onto the teddy-bear. So quite a mixture of the Halloween and Guy Fawkes elements.
    What's going on down your way?