BS: Bullying

Subject: RE: BS: Bullying
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 01:37 PM

"Corporate punishment? Yeah, I'm all for it. Those bankers and oil barons have got it coming all right..."

:0)   

Sorry about that folks, although it was worth it for Steve's remark there...Very good, Steve! I was in a real hurry when I posted that earlier.....and....I'd only just managed to stop myself saying "Corporate Bastards!" on air on Fitz's show, so I guess the word was still hanging around.

Jeri, I felt every word you posted above. I'm so sorry you had to lose so much of your younger life to unhappiness of that sort.

It makes my blood boil that this is still not being dealt with in today's world. The effects of bullying can so often last a life-time. The amount of older people who were advocating bringing back corporal punishment shocked me, to be honest...as did those who thought that sorting out the bully with a bloody good thump was all that's needed...Yes, maybe that did work, still does work, but we ain't come far as a species if we have to deal with violence purely through more violent violence, have we?

My lad was bullied, as was my daughter, as was I.   We were all quiet as children and young people and that's not allowed in group situations, basically. If you are different in a noticeable way, then the ones 'higher up' or ...er....'lower down' the chain feel it's their right to bully, exclude, belittle, abuse...whatever it takes to make them feel good and you feel bad.

Being kind to each other is AS important as English, Maths, Science et al....and Music and Arts should be up there on the 'must have' lists too, along with Compassion, Empathy and Dealing with Shiteheads...

Yes, the bullies come from bad backgrounds, more often than not, but if all children were taught from the very beginning that being kind is right, and being unkind is wrong, then maybe the message would get through much more clearly.   

Many parents don't love their children, many teachers don't like children. Many do. It's the ones who don't who are also adding to the problem and who also need to be dealt with.

I was hit across the hand, very hard, with a wooden ruler by my form teacher in Primary School for talking. I was a chatterbox charlie back then, but I barely whispered a word in class. On this occasion he caught me whispering to my friend, literally, whispering...I was called out to the front of the class...made to put my hand out straight, then WHACK!! he went with his ruler.

From that moment I hated him.
From that moment I learned to never trust another teacher again.
From that moment I knew humiliation....and inner rage.
From that moment I knew a powerful sense of right and wrong.

From that moment I knew that any adult who hits a child is shit, although back then, I didn't konw the right word, but I knew he was a bad man.

You wanna stop the bullying? Then start liking the children. Stop incessantly testing them. Stop forcing them to learn things they have no interest in. Stop teaching school in the same way it's been taught since Victorian times....

Let go of all that's gone before and make school a place where every child feels valued, loved, cared for, extraordinarily safe, and knows they're a part, a very important part of a whole caring community, where respect lies in equal parts on both sides of the corridor.

Subject: RE: BS: Bullying
From: kendall
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 01:33 PM

It felt good when I decked that asshole, but after wards it didn't and I never felt like doing it for fun.

Subject: RE: BS: Bullying
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 01:20 PM

When I was in the early grades in a two room school, with multiple grades in each, I was bullied to the point of terror by a few of the bigger and older kids. I would often come home crying and I still remember my older brother teaching me how to box on our kitchen floor. I learned fast and I grew fast and strong enough to beat the crap out of my tormentors. Perhaps I became a bully then myself because I fancied myself as a bit of a vigilante who would not only step in to defend others but also torment and intimidate those whom I considered to be bullies. By the time I reached my teens I seldom had to fight and I would walk away if I could at all, but both my peers and myself knew I was no coward.

Subject: RE: BS: Bullying
From: GUEST,999
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 12:01 PM

Check your messages, Mr Dixon.

Subject: RE: BS: Bullying
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 11:45 AM

Steve Shaw's line about bankers and oil barons made me laugh; perfect example of 'corporate' bullying.

Subject: RE: BS: Bullying
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 11:43 AM

GUEST,999: What was the point of this remark?

"So far, Shaw, you're the only one who hasn't grasped that. Good of you to catch up."

Steve Shaw was, I think, pointing out that corporal punishment had been twice incorrectly referred to as corporate punishment.

And GUEST,999, why don't you get a membership so we can PM you about stuff like this?

Subject: RE: BS: Bullying
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 11:13 AM

In all my years of teaching, I saw many bullies. In nearly every case, they were at heart very unhappy and miserable individuals, who had suffered neglect, abuse or violence at home. The interesting thing is, many (not all by any means) of their victims were also children who were at a disadvantage in some way, either scruffy, too fat, too thin, odd mannerisms etc. I never had any sympathy with the protagonists, but punished them every time (lines, detention etc.) Just because one is unhappy inside is NOT an excuse to dominate and hurt another. But I did manage (I hope) to distinguish between serious bullying and ordinary playground disagreements and name-calling. The latter should be ignored in the main. I find nowadays that bullying goes on in the adult world. I was bullied in the HMCR enquiries office the other day, for no apparent reason. But the woman concerned was obviously miserable in her job (no excuse!) and didn't look well. Neither did I when I emerged in tears after the 'interview'!

Subject: RE: BS: Bullying
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 10:54 AM

Please spread the word about this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrJxqvalFxM

Stand Up! - Don't Stand for Homophobic Bullying

Subject: RE: BS: Bullying
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 10:35 AM

What happens can't always be dealt with by beating someone up. I was bullied for most of my childhood. There were ringleaders, but pretty soon, mostly all of the kids are on board with the bullying. They're either part of it or they're ignoring what goes on.

I was told to ignore them. "Sticks and stones," and all that, but it didn't STOP anything. I learned that doing goofy things would at least get them to stop taunting and start laughing, even if it was at me.

I changed.

Things got better when I got older, but I'd learned some things I don't think I should have had to learn. I didn't trust people, and I didn't really like them either. There were kids who'd reached out a hand, and I was afraid they were doing it to fool me. I believed I had to act differently than my normal self to get along, and THAT stuck with me for most of my adult life. I felt like I was a monster, pretending to be human so the other humans didn't come after me with torches and pitchforks. That's a bit overly dramatic, but you'll get the drift. Every single time I feel hurt, I go back to that.

And there ends today's D.I.Y. therapy session.

You can blame victims, you can blame bullies, but it really is about what ways of interacting are condoned or encouraged. The way these things are or are NOT dealt with can cause more harm or good than the actual bullying. I don't think punishing the bullies would have been effective, and I don't think teaching me to kick everyone's ass would have been effective. If a person is trying to fit in, further alienating others will make things worse. Changing the norm for the group would have worked. Shame would have. Teaching those outside of the core group of bullies that those bullies were wrong would have. Teaching them to stop supporting the bullies would have.

Subject: RE: BS: Bullying
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 10:34 AM

Whilst I dealt with bullies myself, I understand that it's not everyone that's equipped physically or, more importantly has the courage, to do that and risk a beating. It takes serious cojones to face down a tormentor (or usually, a tormentor and his/her sidekicks) and return his treatment.

I also understand that times have changed, and that whereas a fist-fight, a bloody nose and the odd black eye would sort things out back in the day, there seems often to be a danger of weapons being introduced and violence escalating in today's world.

I think the bullying of yesteryear, which was predominantly physical, slapping around, throwing books in the mud, letting bike tyres down sort of stuff has now been replaced by much more sinister stuff - texts, e-mails, social-website abuse and generally underhand, nasty behaviour. Much harder to deal with.

Glad I'm not a kid growing up today. And Kendall's right on the button - bullies and squaw-beaters are cowards and beneath contempt.

IMHO. YMMV.

Subject: RE: BS: Bullying
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 10:22 AM

I believe that bullying is a concept children learn at home...usually as a result of verbal or physical bullying by parents. This does not absolve schools and society from adressing the problem, however, in my experience, parents need anti bullying instruction more than children do. The behaviour must be stopped at the root of the problem. Just a thought.

Subject: RE: BS: Bullying
From: kendall
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 09:58 AM

Bullies and wife beaters are cowards at heart.

Subject: RE: BS: Bullying
From: GUEST,999
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 09:52 AM

Institutionalized corporal punishment doesn't work. We already know that, so going down that path again accomplishes nothing except to have schools and their policies in court for assault.

As with Kendall and Backwoodsman, I handled it myself back in grade 5. Same result as them.

I was strapped in junior high school for being insubordinate (wasn't paying attention). Yeah, that taught me. When Mr _________ finished the five I looked at him and said, "My sister could hit harder than that!" I thought he was gonna have a coronary on the spot.

I think any school that institutionalizes corporal punishment had best be prepared to deal with mom and/or dad, either in court or in person. It's easy to grab a tiger by the tail, but before doing so one would be well advised to have a plan in place for dealing with the tiger's teeth. imo. ymmv.

Subject: RE: BS: Bullying
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 09:33 AM

Hellooo?

Subject: RE: BS: Bullying
From: GUEST,999
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 09:25 AM

So far, Shaw, you're the only one who hasn't grasped that. Good of you to catch up.

Subject: RE: BS: Bullying
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 09:20 AM

Er, is it OK if we call it "corporal...?"

Subject: RE: BS: Bullying
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 09:16 AM

I work in an environment that does not allow bullying in any form luckily or anything that contravenes the Diversity Act, it is such a good feeling that I can arrive every day happy knowing that someone is not going to make life hell for me. But I have experienced the opposite at school, in my early career and from an ex-spouse.

Corporate Punishment at school can't have worked in my experience as far as bullying goes. It made some children more deceitful with their tactics becoming revengeful again towards the victim. The only relief was actually leaving school only to come across another bully later but with this particular girl I bided my time until she herself left to go to another job. After that the rest of my single life got better.

The trouble with bullying it is in so many forms, girl bullying for instance can be hard to tackle and especially in this way by physical punishment as it tends to be bitchy. But however it is tackled in schools today the difference now is because of news coverage and programmes depicting gun and knife culture the schools can't always know how it will all turn out if or when they do tackle it.

The diversity policy works in here and could be used to teach parents and children in the same way followed up by frequent quizzes. The only thing I worry about is that children like to let off steam sometimes and it could get to a situation where they grow up shying away from wanting to confront anyone about anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Bullying
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 08:37 AM

"As a boy I was bullied until I got fed up and decked the worst of the lot."

Yep me too, Kendall. Funny thing...nobody bothered me after that.

Subject: RE: BS: Bullying
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 08:34 AM

Corporate punishment? Yeah, I'm all for it. Those bankers and oil barons have got it coming all right...

Subject: RE: BS: Bullying
From: kendall
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 08:30 AM

As a boy I was bullied until I got fed up and decked the worst of the lot.

Subject: BS: Bullying
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 08:07 AM

From Obama to BBC Radio Devon, people are FINALLY starting to talk about this terrible problem. I've been banging on about it for years, and have pretty much suffered bullying because of it...

Anyway, I've just got off the phone from BBC Radio Devon as they were having a talk-in about it this morning. I was on just before 1pm. Many people want, apparently, to see corporate punishment brought back, but that is NOT the answer.

The answer is, imo, to look deep into ourselves, as adults, and ask why this is still being allowed to go on. It's about asking questions about examination stresses, schools and the whole idea of them, TV programmes, books, fashion, shops...EVERYONE who is making a fast buck out of our children and all those who don't care about children, be they the parents or the teachers....

We need to sensitise our children, not de-sensitise them...

If you listen to the BBC Radio Devon interview, I apologise for my shaky voice, but as ever, when something affects me very deeply the tears are brimming in my eyes and in my soul....