Lyr Req: Songs by Harry Clifton (1832-1872)

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 11 May 10 - 02:23 PM

Steve

Are you thinking of the Halliard version of Calico Printer's Clark using Dave Moran's tune (recorded 68)?

Mick

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 11 May 10 - 12:51 PM

Steve,

Mark Dowding is the man to answer that one, methinks. Mark himself has recorded a version.

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 11 May 10 - 10:40 AM

Sminky,
You seem to have answered your own question very adequately.
Thanks for this.

'Calico Printer's Clerk' coming up soon.
At least one of the following was singing this in the 1960s if I remember rightly. Can anyone verify which, and who sang it first?
Harry Boardman, Robin Dransfield, Stefan Sobell.

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 11 May 10 - 10:02 AM

The Era Magazine of August 1862 states that his song The girl in her dress of blue "will become popular".

Do we know what were the "difficulties that appeared almost insurmountable"?

I found the folowing in The Aberdeen Journal of March 22nd 1865:

"Harry Clifton, the inimitable comic singer, takes a benefit in the Music Hall on Tuesday evening next, when he will be supported by a talent of every variety. Harry deserves a full house, especially if the published statement be true that he had his savings in the Birmingham bank which has failed."

Subject: Work, Boys, Work and Be Contented
From: Artful Codger
Date: 10 May 10 - 08:09 PM

See this thread (129400) for Clifton's song "Work, Boys, Work and Be Contented".

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 10 May 10 - 03:38 PM

What a gaffe! And what a prat!
Of course Henry Clay Work didn't write the tune to Prisoner's Hope, it was George F Root. Sorry about that.

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 10 May 10 - 03:03 PM

As you can see from the above I am currently slowly sending Artful scans of Harry clifton sheet music so he can post the info and ABC notations. As this is going to be a long process if anyone has any preferences with particular songs please let me know and if I have them I will send them first. Next up should be 'Work, Boys, Work and Be Contented' which curiously goes to 'Work's tune, 'The Prisoner's Hope, or Tramp, Tramo, Tramp, The Boys are Marching'.

Meanwhile here is a newspaper review from the back of an edition of that particular song. If for no other reason than it helps with dating some of the titles mentioned.

'THE SONGS OF MR. HARRY CLIFTON,--It is with much pleasure we have to speak of the humorous and pleasing compositions of this very clever vocalist and author, because they supply a want which has long existed, viz, a lively, merry ditty, that can be sung at a private family party, either by lady or gentleman, without the fear of offending propriety. Unfortunately of late a taste has to some extent sprung up for a class of songs of a very questionable character, and 'great comic singers' have received in some instances enormous salaries for doing that which, in the opinion of many, had much better been left alone. but a change has begun to appear, and now real wit and humour seem to be required in place of low vulgarity. To Mr Clifton is the favourable movement mainly to be attributed, because unaided he has worked against the vulgar taste, and that he has succeded is best shown by the very large demand which every new song he issues to the public, through the instrumentality of Messrs. Hopwood & Crew, of New Bond Street, is sure to meet with. In the words of one of his own excellent compositions, he has been 'Pulling hard against the stream,' and at last the popular tide has turned in his favour-- a circumstance that will give pleasure to every lover of mirth and good taste. it would be impossible to enumerate separately the merits of his compositions, but as specimens of his style, we take at random, 'Bear it like a Man,' 'Where there's a Will there's a Way,' 'A Motto for every Man,' 'Work, Boys, Work,' 'Pulling hard against the stream,'My Old Wife,' 'Jones's Musical Party,' 'The Railway Bell(e),' 'It's really very singular,' and 'The good-tempered Man.' Each of the above are entirely of his own composition, both words and music, and in all such a healthy spirit prevails, that the vocalist experiences as much pleasure in singing as a really merry and wise party would certainly feel in listening to them. Mr. Clifton has doubtless worked hard, but the success he is now enjoying must be both a gratification and a satisfaction to him, especially as he has had to overcome difficulties that appeared almost insurmountable."--
Vide "Sun" Newspaper, London, July 8th, 1867.

A bit of overenthusiasm in here: 'both words and music'. Clifton didn't write all of the words or all of the music. Certainly 'Work, Boys, Work' stole its unattributed music from Work's work.

Subject: I Am One of the Olden Time
From: Artful Codger
Date: 09 May 10 - 12:13 AM

See this thread (129356) for Clifton's song "I Am One of the Olden Time" (or "Fifty Years Ago").

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: Art Thieme
Date: 07 May 10 - 11:39 PM

Sorry! I seem to have misread the title of this thread.
Art

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: Art Thieme
Date: 07 May 10 - 09:52 PM

...and she also went to high school with STEVE GOODMAN !!!!

Art Thieme (She's doing a good job in Washington now too.)

Subject: My Rattling Mare and I
From: Artful Codger
Date: 07 May 10 - 08:39 PM

See this thread (36299) for my music transcription of Clifton's song "My Rattling Mare and I". Earlier in the same thread, Jim Dixon transcribed the lyrics from a broadside in the Bodley Ballads collection.

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: Leadfingers
Date: 07 May 10 - 08:32 PM

I have always enjoyed Music Hall songs sung in Folk Clubs , but only found out fairly recently how many of those 'Old Songs' were based on Traditional songs .

Subject: Send Back My Barney to Me
From: Artful Codger
Date: 07 May 10 - 07:54 PM

See the thread Lyr Add: Barney for a transcription of Clifton's song "Send Back My Barney to Me", which was the precursor or the song "Barney" sung by the Watersons, and possibly of "My Bonny Lies over the Ocean".

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 03 May 10 - 04:51 PM

Just looking through copies of the Lester Levy website for the Pastor songs which I haven't found yet, I came across more Clifton sheets with music
Darby McGuire
The Family Man
Isabella and her Gingham umbrella
Jemima Brown, or the Queen of the Sewing machine
Never Look behind
Pulling Hard Against the Stream
Wait for the Turn of the Tide
The Waterford Boys
Where the Grass Grows Green

Wow! There's some amazing stuff in there!

Re the Pastor songs, I don't think I took off copies because I already had the Clifton originals.

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 03 May 10 - 04:28 PM

Send Back My Barney to me Written and composed by Harry Clifton, Arr. M Hobson
Bb A GGGG F# D Bb C
He is gone and I'm now sad and lonely
D^ Eb^ D^ C Bb Bb C D^ F#
He has left me to cross the wide sea
Bb A GGGG F# D Bb C
But I know that he thinks of me only
C C D C Bb C Bb A G
And will soon be returning to me
Bb Bb A Bb F^ D^ Bb A C
His eyes they were filled with devotion
Bb C D^ C Bb Bb C D^ F#
As my husband he said he'd soon be
Bb A GGGG F D Bb C
Then blow gently ye winds of the ocean
Bb-C D^ C Bb C Bb A G
A-and send back my Barney to me.

I think it has some affinity with the lovely Waterson tune.
Like this there are no repeats as in 'My Bonny'.

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 03 May 10 - 04:08 PM

I have the music to the following
Bear it like a Man
Calico Printer's Clerk
Dark Girl dressed in Blue
Folly and Fashion
Granny Snow
I am one of the Olden Time
Isabella the Barber's Daughter
It's not the miles we travel
Jolly Old Country Squire
Jones's Musical party
Lannigan's Ball
Mary Ann the Roving gardener
A Motto for Every Man
My Mother in Law
My Old Wife
My rattling mare And I
Paddle your own canoe
Polly Perkins
The railway belle
Rocky Road to Dublin
Send back my Barney to me
Up with the lark in the morning
Very Suspicious
The Way to be Happy
Where there's a will there's a way
Work, Boys, Work and be contented
The Young man on the Railway

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 03 May 10 - 03:46 PM

Artful,
Off the top of my head the main source of my statement on Tony Pastor is all on the Lester Levy website so I suggest looking there.

Re the original sheet music, yes I do have it and will post the notes with words but I'm no music expert and can't give you an ABC. If that's not good enough, I could scan my copy and email it to you. I don't know which ones have only lyrics posted but I can let you have a list of all the tunes I have, certainly all of the well-known ones and those that have survived in oral tradition.

The Watersons recorded a more original version of Barney but again I can't read music sufficiently well to say their tune is the same as Ckifton's original.

Will have a look at my Levy copies and try to identify the offending Pastor stuff.

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: Artful Codger
Date: 03 May 10 - 03:40 PM

The National Library of Australia has fifteen entries for Clifton songs, though there is only an online scan of "On Board of the Kangaroo". They are:

As welcome as the flowers in May, or, The jolly miller
The adventures of Robinson Crusoe
It's not the miles we travel, but the pace that kills
Jones' Musical Party
Jemima Brown
On board of the Kangaroo
Paddle your own canoe [2 entries]
Pulling hard against the stream
Purely a matter of taste
Put the break on when you're going down the hill
True blue and seventy-two
Up a tree
Very suspicious [2 entries]

The majority of these songs have not been mentioned in the various threads on Clifton. I'm sure we'd appreciate transcriptions of the lyrics and dots. I'd be happy to transcribe melodies to ABC if someone provided me with scans.

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: Artful Codger
Date: 03 May 10 - 01:13 PM

Steve, in an earlier post, you said you sing "Send Back My Barney" but to the "My Bonny" tune, implying that the original tune is different. Do you have a copy of the original music, and if so, can you transcribe the original tune?

Also, since you've been collecting the sheet music, have you located tunes for any of the songs in your list where only lyrics have been posted? Does your list include Clifton's songs for which Tony Pastor spuriously claimed credit?

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 06:51 PM

The Cover of 'The Hardware Line' is for sale on EBay at the moment. Unfotunately it's just the cover and they want a fiver for it. If it doesn't go through the roof like the last one I might bid on it.

I was looking at my copy of 'Send back my Barney' today and realised it is actually set in Ireland and therefore, like Lannigan's Ball and Rocky Road, formed a big part of his Irish tours.

Ladies,
If you do manage to find a biographical source, I too would be very interested. That such a great star at the top of the tree in the 60s went without a proper bio is amazing. It would be worth checking the theatrical papers for 1872 for entries.

Billy Weeks is the man best placed to get the info. I'll email him.

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: GUEST,Carole Wallis
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 05:30 PM

Hi Robert, I am a great granddaughter of Harry Clifton. Please contact me at [e-mail] so we can compare info.
Regards

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: GUEST,Carole Wallis
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 05:28 PM

Hi Mark, I am also a great granddaughter of Harry Clifton. I am stuck the same as you on finding out very much. Please contact me at [e-mail].

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 20 May 09 - 12:03 PM

Not forgetting the wonderful CALICO PRINTER'S CLERK also on the DT.

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 20 May 09 - 11:40 AM

Lyrics to the following Harry Clifton song are in the DT:

LANIGAN'S BALL


Lyrics to the following songs have been posted in Mudcat threads:

DARK GIRL DRESSED IN BLUE
FAITHLESS MARIA
ON BOARD OF THE KANGAROO
PADDLE YOUR OWN CANOE
POLLY PERKINS OF ABINGTON GREEN
PULLING HARD AGAINST THE STREAM (although there, it's attributed to "Mr. Boot"; I don't know whether the lyrics agree with what Clifton wrote.)
TEN MINUTES TOO LATE
THE WATERFORD BOYS


The Lester S Levy Collection of Sheet Music has the following titles:

A MOTTO FOR EVERY MAN
DARBY MCGUIRE
ISABELLA AND HER GINGHAM UMBRELLA
JEMIMA BROWN, OR, THE QUEEN OF A SEWING MACHINE
MY MOTHER IN LAW, OR, ADVICE TO PERSONS ABOUT TO MARRY
NEVER LOOK BEHIND
PADDLE YOUR OWN CANOE
POLLY PERKINS OF ABINGTON GREEN
THE DARK GIRL DRESS'D IN BLUE
THE FAMILY MAN
THE WATERFORD BOYS
UP WITH THE LARK IN THE MORNING, MERRY & WISE
WAIT FOR THE TURN OF THE TIDE
WHERE THE GRASS GROWS GREEN


The National Library of Australia has:

ON BOARD OF THE KANGAROO


Duke University has:

POLLY PERKINS OF PEMBERTON (sic) GREEN


The California Sheet Music Project has:

SHABBY GENTEEL


The Library of Congress American Memory Collection has:

PRETTY LITTLE FLORA (song sheet – lyrics only)
FAITHLESS MARIA (song sheet – lyrics only)


The Bodleian Library has the following as broadsides:

A BIT OF MY MIND
AS LONG AS THE WORLD GOES ROUND
BROKEN DOWN
JEMIMA BROWN
POLLY PERKINS
SHABBY GENTEEL
THERE'S A SMILE WAITING FOR ME AT HOME
WHERE THE GRASS GROWS GREEN
WHERE THERES A WILL THERE'S A WAY


You can see many more titles at WorldCat.org.

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 01 May 09 - 08:14 PM

This is complete conjecture based on his songs, but I have always thought Harry fell out with his wife some time in the 60s. He had a song called 'My Old Wife' which I have the sheet music to which extols her virtues. I also have the sheet music to 'My Rattling Old Black Mare' which is a parody on 'MOW' in which he changes the words in the first chorus to 'It's not my wife upon my life, but a rattling old black mare' now extoling the virtues of his horse! Fanny Edwards who he sometimes duetted with must have come into the picture after this. Harry died aged 40 in 72 so his children would have grown up by the time FE emigrated.

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 01 May 09 - 07:15 AM

According to R.P.'s post, above, he has his marriage certificate - and his will.

Don't forget that Harry travelled the length and breadth of the UK and Ireland. Records relating to BMD's/censuses etc are likely to be scattered.

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: MartinRyan
Date: 30 Apr 09 - 01:57 PM

Brakn

I think there are several online references to his "common law wife".

Regards

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: Brakn
Date: 30 Apr 09 - 01:37 PM

On the 1871 census Harry's listed as being married to Fanny (Edwards) though I don't think this ever happened. (I can't find it.)

If they had children together I suppose they could've been left in boarding school or with relations while the couple toured.

After Harry died, Fanny emigrated to the U.S. in 1889 and died 1908 at her home in Yonkers. Her obit in the New York Times says that she left three sisters and two brothers. It doesn't mention any children.

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 05:57 PM

The Lester Levy site also has several Clifton songs pirated by Tony Pastor who was his American imitator. Pastor appears to have altered the songs slightly and then claimed them as his own.

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 09:27 AM

There are at least two of his great-grandsons on this thread - he must have had children.

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: Brakn
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 06:48 AM

Re Harry cliftons children.

I don't think he had any.

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: Artful Codger
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 02:38 AM

Scans of several Clifton songs are available online at the John Hopkins Lester S. Levy site (including "Paddle Your Own Canoe").

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 03:14 PM

Guestx2,
Surely if you PM the above 3 relatives at least one of them should be able to answer your question.

BTW there are 2 of HC's sheet music pieces on Ebay currently. One very scarce one 'Robinson Crusoe' is already going beyond my pocket at £16 plus postage, but the other 'Paddle Your Own Canoe' is quite common. I have 3 versions of it all with different lithographs to the one on Ebay. This in itself would make an interesting study. In all my copies his face is much fatter. I would love to see a website of his work something like the one dedicated to Arthur Lloyd.

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 05:10 PM

This is a long shot but does anyone know the names of Harry cliftons children.
many thanks M

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: R.P.
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 09:44 PM

Hello Phil.
If you contact me at:- [e-mail]
I will be able to help you.
Best wishes.
R.P.

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: GUEST
Date: 28 May 08 - 01:37 PM

As a resident of Hoddesdon interested in local history and music hall entertainment, I was intrigued to read recently that Harry Clifton was born in my home town. Interestingly this seems to have gone unnoticed by local historians, at least there is no mention of him in local history books. I wondered if his birth certificate mentions where in Hoddesdon he was born as it would be nice to pass this on to my local history society and I would like to write a small piece for their newsletter.

Phil

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 06:10 AM

Related threads for Ten Minutes Too Late:

Lyr Req: Ten Minutes Too Late
Lyr Req: Exactly 10 minutes too late

Nice to hear from you, R.P. - what a great thread.

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: Brakn
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 05:51 AM

Just a few bits of interest.....
Henry (Harry) Robert Clifton was born at Hoddesdon and was Christened on the 20th of May 1832 at Broxbourne, Hertfordshire. Parents were Henry and Harriet Clifton.

His father ,I think, died in 1837. In 1841 he was living in the High Street, Broxbourne with his mother.

I can't find him on any other censuses until 1871 when he was boarding at Union Street, St Andrew, Plymouth with his common law wife Fanny (Edwards).

Harry Clifton died in 1872 and is buried in Kensal Green Cemetery.

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: GUEST,Steve Gardham
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 06:11 PM

To add to my previous list I recently found out that Harry wrote that well-worn song 'Send back my Barney' which eventually morphed into 'My Bonny'. You can listen to something near the original as sung by The Watersons. Sheet music came up on Ebay about 6 months ago but I was outbid. The winner very kindly sent me a photocopy.
I now sing it in schools I visit using the original words but the well-known 'My Bonny' tune.

Sometime when I'm not so busy I'd like to help set up a Harry Clifton website with copies of all his works. 'Where there's a will there's a way' is still going strong west of Sheffield where it's called 'The Spider Song' sung by Gordon Hoyland and others.

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: R.P.
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 06:29 PM

Hello again!
in my last message it should have read:- Maternal great grandfather.
Best wishes.
Robert.

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: R.P.
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 06:02 PM

Hello.
I have been researching Harry Clifton for the past 10 years, as he is my paternal great grandfather.
I have family papers his birth registration, marriage certificate, death certificate, will, and a number of his song sheets.
I would like to hear from:- Mark TURNER & K. BALL, to find out where we connect.
Best wishes.
Robert.

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: R.P.
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 05:44 PM

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: GUEST,mark turner
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 03:28 PM

it would be interesting to talk to you k ball, in which way are you related, and how would you like to get in touch?

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 06:46 AM

No.112 of the Axon Broadside Ballad Collection (the Death of Harry Clifton) includes the titles of several of Harry's compositions.

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: GUEST,k ball
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 04:16 AM

i to am also related to harry clifton and would like to get in touch

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: GUEST,Mark Turner
Date: 14 Dec 07 - 06:40 PM

I am the Great Grandson of HARRY CLIFTON.I would be very interested in the results of this website. I have little knowledge of my ancester and would welcome any information. I will now check this site at regular intervals.   
"I Live in Trafalgar Square".
To those that know please reply.

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: GUEST,Lucius
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 09:31 AM

Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but I'm wondering if anyone has the lyrics to "Ten Minutes too Late".

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: Billy Weeks
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 10:56 AM

I'vejust seen (three years late - sorry!) John Giok's comment that Kilgarriff is 'long on price and short on content'. Kilgariff's 'Sing Us One of the Old Songs' is a long-needed reference book and a monumental achievement that anyone could be proud of having produced. I take it JG wanted pictures? Or perhaps he thinks that,like the telephone directory it has a terrific cast but a lousy plot.

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: GUEST,Storyteller
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 08:32 AM

Steve, thank you for these very helpful leads. It appears that the Kathleen Barker Collection at the University has some memorabilia of Harry Clifton Kathleen Barker Collection. If I come up with anything more of interest I'll post it here.

Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter
From: GUEST,Steve G
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 04:46 AM

Storyteller, Some quick facts about Clifton off the top of my head: Yes, Clifton had a knack for writing popular material that would last. He died in his forties in 1872 but his work went through a revival in the 1880s. He travelled around England, Ireland and Scotland at the height of his popularity and had his imitators in America. Wherever he was appearing he tried to write songs that mentioned the local places, e.g. Hull's song was Faithless Maria or The Land of Green Ginger. He was famous for his motto songs however which appealed to the middle classes because they were messages of virtue to the common man, e.g. Work Boys Work and be Contented is a typical title.

I have 113 titles credited to him. I have the original sheet music for 20 of them but I'd like to get more. One I'd particularly like to have is My Rattling Mare and I. Almost all of the others I have copies of on broadsides.

As you might expect, his material has been collected more often in the tradition in America, such pieces as Paddle Your Own Canoe, Pulling Hard against the Stream, and Shabby Genteel are frequently found in American collections. In Br folk clubs one can still hear The Calico Printer's Clerk (Stefan Sobel et al) Polly Perkins and its Geordie parody, The Weepin' Willer.

Br tradition has Water Cresses, Mary Ann or The Roving Gardener, I am one of the Olden Time (sung by Mukram Wakes) My Rattling Mare and I (in my own collection and others) On Board the Kangaroo, probably others. And in Ireland Lannigan's Ball and Rocky Roads to Dublin (both written by D.K. Gavan), and The Waterford Boys. Hope this is useful. Steve.