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Origins: The lad with his trousers on |
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Subject: RE: Origins: The lad with his trousers on From: Santa Date: 12 Jan 08 - 03:30 PM The Minstrelsy arrived today, thanks to Lanerch press and Malcolm. The songs do indeed only exist in fragments, although in two cases there are slightly more to them then appear on the CD. I did notice, however, that Lousy Cutters and Here's the Tender Coming were also only printed as fragments, rather than the full versions sung today. There seems to be only a small amount in Mudcat threads on either,with perhaps rather more on Cutters suggesting that only the fragment is original. But this is under the heading of a Sunderland song - surely as Newcastle lasses they wouldn't be singing a Sunderland song? |
Subject: RE: Origins: The lad with his trousers on From: Santa Date: 04 Jan 08 - 12:41 PM Thanks to both:I have your CD and shall order the Minstrelsy, probably after playing the CD. |
Subject: RE: Origins: The lad with his trousers on From: radriano Date: 04 Jan 08 - 12:08 PM Can't resist some shameless adverising here. I recorded "Jackie Tar" on my 2002 shanty album "Time Ashore is Over" - it's a great song and should be sung more. Lyrics to this song and many more less common sea songs and shanties on our website: Handspikes.com |
Subject: RE: Origins: The lad with his trousers on From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 04 Jan 08 - 11:22 AM You can find out easily enough. A paperback facsimile edition of Northumbrian Minstrelsy can be bought from http://www.llanerchpress.com/ at a mere £14.94 plus p&p. |
Subject: RE: Origins: The lad with his trousers on From: Santa Date: 04 Jan 08 - 05:19 AM Correction on my part: rereading the sleeve, the fragments come from Northumbrian Minstrelsy. It still isn't clear to me how much more might be there. |
Subject: ADD: Jacky Tar From: Vic Smith Date: 03 Jan 08 - 12:23 PM GUEST,kenny wrote I believe he got his version of the song from "Ord's Bothy Ballads". It's on Page 324 and 335 of Ord where the words are:-
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Subject: RE: Origins: The lad with his trousers on From: GUEST,kenny Date: 03 Jan 08 - 11:04 AM Tony Cuffe used to sing a version of "Jacky Tar" which had the last line of each verse as "...with his trousers on". It was more or less to the tune known in Ireland as "The Cuckoo's Nest", the 3-part hornpipe. I believe he got his version of the song from "Ord's Bothy Ballads". Sadly he never recorded it. |
Subject: RE: Origins: The lad with his trousers on From: Santa Date: 03 Jan 08 - 08:40 AM The last line of Jackie Tar bounces along to the tune in the Winterset piece, but the sentiment has reversed. As I recall, the sleeve notes say that the fragments were found whilst browsing in Peter Woods' library, but are ambiguous about how much was found. The set includes part of The Weary Cutters, which certainly is known in fuller versions, but I don't recognise "I'll sit upon the pier 'til the tide comes in", "Up to smoky Shields, handy for bonnie Newcastle" or the title piece "Blue's gone out of the fashion, red's come in with the new, I'll have a sailor laddie and dye my apron blue." |
Subject: RE: Origins: The lad with his trousers on From: The Vulgar Boatman Date: 02 Jan 08 - 04:33 PM Same song Jack - and was refined and printed at Seven Dials as a broadsheet between about 1820 and 1840. By that time the tune was still recognisable as a descendant of Cuckoo's Nest. Roy Palmer has it in "Boxing the Compass". |
Subject: RE: Origins: The lad with his trousers on From: GUEST,Jack Campin Date: 02 Jan 08 - 02:22 PM Can't remember that one, but "Come ashore jolly tar with your trousers on" ýs the earliest version of the tune now known as "The Cuckoo's Nest". It's from Elizabethan England. |
Subject: RE: Origins: The lad with his trousers on From: Santa Date: 02 Jan 08 - 08:08 AM Thank you for the help: which means all the fragments in the set are to do with the sea and river life. The boy is thus a sailor or perhaps a keelman? A bonnie keel laddie? |
Subject: RE: Origins: The lad with his trousers on From: The Vulgar Boatman Date: 01 Jan 08 - 06:06 PM Trousers - as distinct from the breeches worn ashore at the time - denote the dress of a common sailor. Date circa 1780. The song Jackie Tar which goes with the hornpipe of the same name refers; see also Cobbett on the subject of Deal, Kent, referring to a "very vile place" and its "trowsered" occupants. KYBTTS |
Subject: Origins: The lad with his trousers on From: Santa Date: 01 Jan 08 - 03:28 PM As sung by the Winterset on their latest CD, in a set of fragments from the North East. "The lad with his trousers on he says he will not have me." Had this been a folk song, then getting said trousers off would have sorted the matter out fairly quickly. However, as presumably this is from a music-hall song, it is likelier to be marriage that the lad is refusing. But what is this song telling us, about a sub-culture in 19th(?) century Tyneside where some lads have trousers and others, by default, do not? What did this sub-class wear instead? Is it that the singer is not good enough for the lad rich enough to wear trousers? Has anyone any helpful information about the origins and meanings of this song? A few extra words might help, or does it only exist in fragmentary form? |
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