BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 01:53 PM

Alan, well said, but I do have to disagree. No offence, though. Our compassion lies with the families of those murdered. Atkins sealed her fate and must live out her "life" sentence as society has dictated. As it is, she is in hospital, being cared for. That's enough, imo.

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: Wesley S
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 01:14 PM

With most other prisioners I'd be tempted to let them out of jail under the circumstances. But this case was so high profile and the crimes so nasty that the community is better off if she stays put. She's safer too. There are too many oddballs out there that would treat her either as a hero - or a target.

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: pdq
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 12:57 PM

"The 'revenge' idea is foreign to German law."

It is not a concept found in American law either. It is usually thrown around for political purposes only.

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 12:48 PM

If she was in Germany, she would be released, of course, with me and most Germans agreeing with that decision. The "revenge" idea is foreign to German law.

The ministers announcing such decisions usually say something like "a higher court than human courts will take over this case very soon". I do not share the idea of a "higher court" of this type, but I share the sentiment expressed by these words. If death is imminent punishment and sentences lose their sense for me.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: alanabit
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 09:50 AM

Bonnie, she says she has changed her attitude. Of course, we can't be sure that she is telling the truth. Yet how great is the likelihood that she is lying? We will not diminish ourselves by giving water to a dying person, who claims to be thirsty, however wicked the deeds of that person. She has suffered retribution now for nearly forty years. Now she is begging for mercy. The young Susan Atkins and the other "Family" members failed to show that sort of compassion so hideously back in 1969.
I like to think we are not like them. There could be no better illustration of the difference than for us to now show her mercy.

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 08:27 AM

I'm a great one for compassion too. I wouldn't begrudge her her last 3 months of life out of prison but if she had killed any of my family in the way she did (Sharon Tate begged for the life of herself and her baby) I would find it difficult to forgive.

The parole board did not give the reasons for their decision but it was unanimous. She actually applied for this release in March so it has taken some months to get this far. Apparently, since March, it has cost almost $1.5 million dollars to look after and guard her. Since she is now partially paralyzed presumably any guarding is not first and foremost to stop her escaping but to protect her.

She did have some support from family and others at the parole hearing but I suppose that releasing her now might set a precedent for the rest of the Manson family in the future.

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 08:23 AM

> she had time to fully contemplate and become aware of the awfulness of what she did<

If this was true, the she would now realise the enormity of her crimes and of peoples feelings towards her, and accept her fate in prison.

eric

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: Emma B
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 07:39 AM

No offence taken alanabit

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 07:20 AM

No. Not smug at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 06:51 AM

Very well said, alanabit.

It is always most difficult to witness those we like, admire, and trust expressing such strong desires to see punishment taken too far. Particularly when they are so smugly convinced of the rightness of seeking to extend such a vengeful punishment as we are seeing done in this case.

There is a tremendous need for healing, no doubt. Sometimes the most important step in healing from devastating, horrific events like this is finding one's compassion and a willingness to forgive.

Like the Amish parents of the school girls murdered in PA did, for instance.

Seems we could use a whole lot more of their example in our hurting world.

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 05:56 AM

> she had time to fully contemplate and become aware of the awfulness of what she did

She's certainly had time to, yes. But has she? I think one's attitudes towards one's actions does make a difference. And I don't feel that all punishments should be finite. Some acts are life-changing. I might feel differently if there was evidence of any genuine sorrow for what she did (as opposed to sorrow for the trouble it got her into) but I can't see anything remotely convincing.

I think it is not unfair to make her fully bear the consequences of her actions. It's not as though she's being kept in in-humane circumstances. Presumably no one is stopping her husband from being by her bedside.

"Acknowledges what she did was wrong"? Or says what people want her to say in order to get something?

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: alanabit
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 05:21 AM

I have opposed capital punishment for many years now and I always will. Had Susan Atkins have been executed thirty-nine years ago, I would have mourned very little. By no standards was her conduct defensible and her crime and reaction to it at the time were so heinous that it was impossible to muster any compassion for her.
She has now been in prison for over three fifths of her life. The woman, who committed the terrible crimes, of which she was convicted, has already died. There was nothing spectacular about it, but it happened. It was a long, slow death, in which she had time to fully contemplate and become aware of the awfulness of what she did. In short, a terrible retribution has been extracted for an unspeakable crime.
The pathetic, dying creature, whom we are now talking about, is of no danger to anyone and is asking for a few days or weeks to die in a place of her choosing. I believe we have had our revenge. We can't recall the victims to ask for their opinions. On their behalf do we choose mercy or punishment? We can't change what she did. She now knows and acknowledges what she did was wrong.
Compassion should not only be for the virtuous and attractive. Showing compassion to Susan Atkins now would not diminish our respect for the vicitms and their families. It would however, say something about us.
I am very sorry if I am potentially giving offence to many good folks here, whom I respect so much. Beware of the urge to punish. Punishment should always be finite.

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: GUEST,caitlín
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 03:46 PM

Her victims didn't get to choose where they died. Why should she? Her victims didn't get medication for their pain, maybe she should count her blessings.

R.I.P. (Rot In Perdition)

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 03:16 PM

Actually, she isn't in prison any longer. She has been in a hospital since last March, according to the Reuters version of events, and it sounds as if that will be where she remains until she dies.

Her appeal was to allow her to be taken home to die, it sounds like.

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: Wesley S
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 11:29 AM

She's not getting released so it's a moot point.She's staying where she is and that's fine by me. One article mentions that she's been in prison longer than any other woman in California.

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 11:11 AM

I read the actual release in which the California Department of Corrections stated that, should they release her, they would no longer be obligated to pay her medical bills, which are substantial.

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 09:36 AM

> Cooley says Atkins' crimes alone warrant denial of the request.

I have to agree in this case. She participated in a carefully pre-planned and orchestrated, gruesome multiple murder; and she has never shown a shred of remorse. All we ever got was a lot of rhetoric spouting hatred of "society" (including, presumably, its care amenities). That same Society - i.e. the taxpayer - would now probably have to support her and pay for her extensive medical bills, not to mention around-the-clock police protection. I can think of a few non-criminals who could do with some free housing and hospital care.

She was viciously ready enough to destroy "society" when she was young and healthy, and nothing convinces me that anything other than selfish interest is motivating her now. Is she sorry? Has reflecting upon her crime and its victims even occurred to her? Or is she just going after something she wants?   

In any case, what is the point of releasing her? After all the decades she's spent inside, not to mention her very public profile, where is she going to go and what sort of life could she expect to lead? It's such a changed world now from all those 60s values and styles - where is she even going to plug in? I don't know how long she has left, but there's little difference between one hospital ward and another. Or would it mean hiring her a private nurse - along with the guard at the door?   

She should reap the full consequences of her acts, which were freely chosen.

Humble Opinion, why don't you get down off that fence and tell us what you think? And the reasons supporting it. We all have.

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 09:25 AM

I wonder is there a way to remove the fame from these people? The media gives Manson and his people way more attention than they have earned.

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 08:31 AM

I say no.

Q - All life sentences should be commuted to hanging.

Is that like giving them a suspended sentence?


D.

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: Big Mick
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 11:49 PM

No.

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 09:32 PM

Bobert, maybe SOME of them, but not ones like her who have committed such heinous acts.

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: catspaw49
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 09:16 PM

Sounds like if she dies she gets an automatic reduction in her sentence............

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 08:14 PM

Well, as per usual, I'd let her out but with some restrictions... I'd have her do her remaining time in her or her husband's home and wear one of those ankle things that allows her to be found if she runs...

There is a point in time when if we are gonna de-incarcerate some of the 3,000,000 people we have locked up (@ $50,000/ each per year) that we are gonna have to do some serious rethinking about the economics and social implications...

Now, go ahead and blast away... I'm used to it...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: heric
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 08:04 PM

She maried her husband in 1987. He's 15 years younger than her, and graduated either from Harvard or Hastings law school.

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 07:46 PM

eanjay---if true that is good news. None of those Manson creeps should be let out except for burial. Why no one offed Manson in prison is beyond my ken, or is he in solitary 23 hours a day?

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 07:16 PM

It sounds as if release has been denied - latest news.

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 06:33 PM

She has such a short time left to live now and she has already had one leg amputated. I just wonder who would look after her if she is released and who would foot the medical bills.

The answer to both is--guess who?--the government. And she'd probably not get as good medical care as she's getting in prison.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: Ed T
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 06:15 PM

She shows(ed) no remorse (or compassion) for the lives of others (by terminating Sharon Tate's life, and that of her baby). She should not expect more for herself, regardless of her current plight.

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: GUEST,In My Humble Opinion
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 06:09 PM

A predictable course is being followed by this thread, keep her in. I mean what else were you going to say?

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 06:05 PM

All life sentences should be commuted to hanging.

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 05:57 PM

She can stay where she is. She's a burden on the state like this, a very expensive inmate, but she should stay put.

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: Sorcha
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 05:35 PM

She was sentenced to LIFE in prison. That means LIFE. Means you don't get out because you are sick. Sorry. I can't see the parole board going for this either. What eanjay said.

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 05:33 PM

From everything I've read and heard, including interviews with her, she has never repented and has come off as proud of what she did.

No, she shouldn't be let out. She should receive appropriate medical care, including pain relief, but she shouldn't be released.

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 05:30 PM

I've read a lot about the Manson Family and more recently I've read a lot about Susan Atkins. Originally she did receive the death penalty so she has already lived longer than she may have done.

I would not begrudge her the last few months of her life out of prison but then she didn't kill any of my family; I may feel differently if she had.

She has such a short time left to live now and she has already had one leg amputated. I just wonder who would look after her if she is released and who would foot the medical bills.

I would be surprised if the parole board agrees to this release and even if they do how long would all the paper work take?

Has she shown any remorse for her crimes which were particularly horrific?

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: Becca72
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 05:23 PM

No, she should not be let out simply because she has a terminal illness.

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 05:07 PM

I've read Helter Skelter and I am not pro-death penalty, but for the life of me I can see no redeeming factor in allowing ANY of the Manson family anything, including life. No, they should not let her out.

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: Greengal
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 04:51 PM

There are some crimes for which there should be no parole.

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 04:34 PM

What was her sentence?

Subject: RE: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: skipy
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 04:34 PM

Die in prison, rot in Hell!
Skipy

Subject: BS: Susan Atkins - Release her from prison?
From: Wesley S
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 04:28 PM

Susan Atkins of the Manson Family is asking to be released from prison since she has terminal brain cancer. Do you think she should be released?


LOS ANGELES, California (AP) -- Los Angeles County District Attorney Steve Cooley has asked the California parole board to deny Charles Manson follower Susan Atkins' request for compassionate release from prison.
Atkins, who was convicted of eight 1969 murders, is terminally ill.
Cooley says Atkins' crimes alone warrant denial of the request.
The district attorney notes that Atkins personally stabbed pregnant actress Sharon Tate, tasted her blood and used it to write the word "Pig" on the victim's door.
The parole board meets Tuesday.