BS: Russian war crimes

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 May 22 - 09:22 AM

I've been to Cyprus three times and I've stayed in both the north and south. There were, and are, rights and wrongs on both sides, and the recent history IS complicated. I'm not trying to exonerate Turkey, but the comparison with Russia's invasion of Ukraine is invidious.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 May 22 - 09:10 AM

Not for the people who were living in the now occupied territory - I work for one, work with one and occasional visitor to the office is one!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 May 22 - 07:41 AM

In 1974 the Cyprus thang was just a little more complicated...

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 May 22 - 05:32 AM

Don't forget - in 1974 those bastard Turks did exactly the same to Cyprus as those bastard Russians are now doing to Ukraine.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Donuel
Date: 28 May 22 - 05:04 PM

In a game of Empire of Thrones we are all exposed to propoganda and its effects.
Putin's face looks like he is on Pregnosone. Some suggest he is being treated for cancer. I think he just likes steroids.
Even the NYT is prone to propoganda. It is difficult to live up to democracy's ideals in America today but Biden is better than Trump

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 May 22 - 12:49 PM

yes Putin is very unpleasant so is the USA, Biden will be fighting China next
Turkey invades syria, you are not outraged about that.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 May 22 - 12:12 PM

I'm not surprised. What a terrible way to try to live and govern.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Donuel
Date: 24 May 22 - 11:53 AM

Zelensky said the russain assasination attempts on his life are ongoing like groundhog day.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 May 22 - 09:46 AM

Ukraine war: Russian soldier Vadim Shishimarin jailed for life over war crime
"Captured soldier Sgt Vadim Shishimarin was convicted of killing Oleksandr Shelipov, 62, in the north-eastern village of Chupakhivka on 28 February."

He admitted shooting Mr Shelipov but said he had been acting on orders and asked forgiveness of the man's widow.


Ukraine destruction: how the Guardian documented Russia’s use of illegal weapons

Cluster bombs, fléchettes and unguided missiles on residential areas: as prosecutors investigate alleged Russian war crimes in Ukraine, our reporters reveal the evidence they discovered on the ground

At about midnight on 1 March 2022, a Russian air force jet dropped a series of 250kg Soviet-era explosives over Borodyanka, north of Kyiv. They were powerful FAB-250 bombs, designed to hit military targets such as enemy fortifications and bunkers. There were no such structures, however, in this quiet town of 13,000 people.

Let's stick to discussing bunker busters, not breaking balls.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 May 22 - 06:57 PM

Today I heard a conversation about possible war crime trials at the Hague of Russians accused of rape and murder, so I guess they do have some clout in what is going on now. Or it is presumed that Russia won't investigate?

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Donuel
Date: 16 May 22 - 10:13 AM

What war crimes? All is fair in love and war ... or if your country does something in war.
The holy grail bio war weapon like weaponizing the common cold seems to have killed millions. So whats the big deal in killing 500 million people in an accidental nuclear exchange. When an outcome is not a zero possibility, it will happen. Investing in 40,000 nuclear weapons is not zero.

Dresden, Hiroshima and Soviet Union will be the minor examples of the numbers of war casualties. We are all statistics now, waiting for when -

not if.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 May 22 - 06:02 AM

OK. Sorry! I didn't look at the posting times.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 May 22 - 08:51 PM

We cross posted after WAV.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 May 22 - 07:13 PM

Er, there was plenty about Russia in my post, with respect.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 May 22 - 05:44 PM

Now back to Russia.

It seems that evil Senator Mitch McConnell and some of his GOP senator buddies went secretly to Ukraine. If you look at the photo of McConnell with Zelenski, Prez Z doesn't look happy at all. He knows who let Trump get away with slowing down cash to Ukraine while Trump was in office playing his political games. And responsible for letting Russia think they could get away with this war on Ukraine. He was polite and professional, but very few smiles. CNN coverage has a video from the visit.

One wonders how or if the US is backing the process of trying war criminals if we're huge Ukraine supporters but not involved in the International Criminal Court. In theory, the ICC tries cases that aren't investigated and tried by their own countries. So the Ukraine trying Russians isn't an ICC thing but the Russians ignoring their generals and soldiers committing war crimes would be. I guess the reason the US didn't join is because 1) they intend to investigate their own war crimes (unless someone like Trump thinks it's all good) and 2) this way they can't be tried by the ICC. Russia isn't in it either.

Troubled times ahead on the legal front.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 May 22 - 05:39 PM

NATO, to be clear, is a defensive organisation. On the whole, it consists of western democracies who banded together to defend themselves against potential Soviet threats. NATO has failed to hold to its commitment to Russia that they would not expand towards the Russian border. However, it's hard to see how we could say no to countries close to Russia who feel vulnerable who ask to join, and the current situation, in my view, has exonerated us from that broken promise. In addition, even now the forces we've put close to the Russian border don't add up to a threat to invade or attack Russia. As a leftie I'm not a fan of NATO. But, as long as it keeps to its commitment to attack only if attacked first, I think I can live with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 May 22 - 02:39 PM

Agree that the U.N. must become more effective partly via, as I say, dissolving such clubs-of-nations as NATO, the E7, E.U, the Commonwealth, etc. Moving it out of the U.S.A. to England (which, for better or worse, is, of course, the home of the world's lingua franca, to use a bit of Italian) may also help...


If Jewish people had been given their own nation in Europe after WW2, the sad disrespect of Palestinian land rights that SRS mentions may not have occurred.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 May 22 - 12:08 PM

I took a couple of adjectives out of my remarks before posting. Thick is probably a polite version of my thoughts.

The trial starting now is of a 21-year-old who murdered a 62-year-old civilian.

It is alleged Shysimarin, a sergeant, had been fighting in the Sumy region in north-east Ukraine when he killed a civilian on 28 February in the village of Chupakhivka.

He is accused of shooting at a civilian car after his convoy of military vehicles had come under attack from Ukrainian forces. He then drove the car away with four other soldiers as he sought to flee Ukrainian fighters.

Shysimarin shot dead the unarmed man, who was on a bicycle and talking on his phone, after being ordered “to kill a civilian so he would not report them to Ukrainian defenders”, according to prosecutors. . . . Two other cases are likely to be heard in court within days including an in absentia trial of Mikhail Romanov, a Russian soldier accused of rape and murder. He is accused of breaking into a house in March in a village in the Brovarsky region near Kyiv, murdering a man and then repeatedly raping his wife while “threatening her and her underage child with violence and weapons”.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 May 22 - 11:43 AM

I don't know if WAV is just naive about how well the UN do, if he is purposely winding people up or if he is just thick.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 May 22 - 11:40 AM

WAV, that's the lunatic fringe talking. You see how ineffective the UN is - you know what their first act was? To give Israel statehood. See how well that went? Palestinian refugee camps for the decades since Israel was given the imprimatur, continuing to treat the original landowners as second class citizens or worse. They live what they learned - in this case, they are really good at ghettos.

This thread isn't for fighting about Israel, but it also isn't for your brand of whataboutisms and moral equivalence.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: meself
Date: 13 May 22 - 08:18 PM

With Russia, China, the US, et al, having vetoes ... no problem there ....

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 13 May 22 - 05:16 PM

It's wrong that Russia invaded Ukraine (as it was wrong for the U.S. to invade Vietnam, etc.), but it is also wrong to form "clubs" such as NATO - if any given nation is to be interfered with/protected, it should be via the United Nations, only.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Donuel
Date: 13 May 22 - 05:01 PM

The first war crime trial of a Russaibn soldier began today.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Donuel
Date: 08 May 22 - 04:11 PM

Paxton

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 05 May 22 - 09:08 AM

Unless, of course, that's what Vlad wants us to think he knows .... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Donuel
Date: 05 May 22 - 07:20 AM

The dozen Russain Generals killed by Ukraine is the result of the US sharing intelligence. US says the killing of Generals was not our intent but we know what the Russains are doing in detail.
(we obviously want Putin to know)

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Apr 22 - 01:09 PM

https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/03/07/russia-criminalizes-independent-war-reporting-anti-war-protests#

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Apr 22 - 05:20 PM

I have been learning how Russia got its first group of oligarchs that controled 50% of Russia's economy and how Putin has murdered or arrested those replacing them with the Putin Oligarchs.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Apr 22 - 02:02 PM

This is not the thread to discuss UK politics but there is a link with Johnsons attempts to undermine democracy and Putins methods to stay in power. Both involve blatant lying and criminal activity. Johnson has not resorted to killing people yet but his actions are the thin end of the wedge that results in situations like the war in Ukraine:-(

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Rain Dog
Date: 23 Apr 22 - 05:16 AM

No it is not lefties complaining about a few drinks in the garden. It is a growing number of people fed up with all the lying about a few drinks in the garden. The dishonesty shown by Johnson and his supporters has been shameful. They are responsible for that. It was their choice. I hope they are ashamed by their behaviour but somehow I doubt it.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Apr 22 - 05:01 AM

So France and Germany have sold weapons to Russia since 2014, and the lefties complain about a few drinks in a garden???????????????????????????

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Apr 22 - 10:46 PM

MSNBC is playing an hour report from Richard Engle who has been reporting from Ukraine. I didn't turn it on at the beginning but I expect they will replay it so I'll look for it this weekend. The link I find right now is to MSNBC Live - and that will change once the program is over. Ukraine: Freedom or Death.

And here's an interesting story about tracking Russians via stolen Air Pods: Tracking Airpods in Ukraine and Russia.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Apr 22 - 08:34 PM

No surprise that Putin's generals seem to have a shopping list and the Donbas isn't the only property on it.

What is Transnistria, and will Russia advance toward Moldova?

Two months into the invasion of Ukraine, a Russian military commander suggested Friday that Moscow aims to establish a corridor through southern Ukraine to Transnistria, a breakaway republic in eastern Moldova.

“Control over the south of Ukraine is another way out to Transnistria, where there are also facts of oppression of the Russian-speaking population,” said Rustam Minnekaev, acting commander of Russia’s Central Military District, according to the Russian news agency Interfax.

It was unclear whether Minnekaev’s statement reflects the official Kremlin line. The comment surprised some analysts, since Russia tried and failed in the early weeks of the war to advance on southwestern Ukraine — the area it would need to secure to reach the border with Transnistria.

Further down they give the history of the place

The small Eastern European country of Moldova, sandwiched between Ukraine and Romania, used to be part of Romania. It was integrated into the Soviet Union in 1940. The collapse of the Soviet Union five decades later triggered a civil conflict in the early 1990s between the newly independent Republic of Moldova and separatists in Transnistria, who wanted to maintain Soviet ties.

Transnistria, a thin strip of land that runs along Moldova’s border with Ukraine, has a population of about 500,000. No country — not even Russia — recognizes the territory as independent. But it functions as a separate nation, where Moldovan authorities admit they have no control.

Russian troops have been stationed in the area for decades as “peacekeepers,” with an estimated 1,500 there today. Moldovans make fun of the sliver of land as a backwater stuck in the Soviet era, where Lenin statues remain, international bank cards don’t work and a monopolistic company, Sheriff, controls virtually everything.

Moldova is neutral and has said it isn't interested in joining the EU.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Apr 22 - 05:41 PM

Russain cancel culture Czars crave censorship. Censorship and alternative facts/lies have infected the US with a superbug via Trumputin.
The first casualty of war is truth and Russia has the all time championship of censorship and lies. Free speech plays a vital role in War doncha think. As for suiciding oligarchs they may be a tiny jigsaw puzzle piece in this crazy patchwork puzzle called war.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Apr 22 - 10:55 AM

Just a reminder: The topic is Russian war crimes.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Apr 22 - 09:42 AM

Two Russian oligarchs hang themselves after killing their family with an axe.?????/ https://www.newsweek.com/oligarchs-murder-suicide-1699766

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Apr 22 - 09:07 AM

https://princetoniansforfreespeech.com/commentary-free-speech-me-not-thee

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Apr 22 - 08:59 AM

Sandman illuminates the difference between free speech and the 1st ammendment.
They are 2 different things.

Unless certain 30 year old laws are changed, Fox news can legally lie 24 hours a day.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Apr 22 - 08:42 AM

When an extremist voice pops up continually even though it is disaproportionally only .0001% of the whole it is probably just media sensation strategy for getting more eyeballs on their source.
Thats what Facebook can do.

So there are voices too loud.

However I do not have the wisdom to decide whose wisdom is eventually the best but there are means to find where it is coming from.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Apr 22 - 07:39 AM

You can't accuse any group of having too loud a voice. We could criticise those in the middle for having too quiet a voice. They often like to refer to themselves as "the silent majority," a term which is supposed to make us think that they are sage, contemplative, reflective, measured pipe-smokers. "I see all but I say nothing." Unfortunately, they are all too often "silent" because they haven't been following/don't give a damn/don't wish to get into an argument that they know they are not equipped to sustain. The dreaded man-in-the-street vox pops on the telly news can be a real giveaway. They often make me shudder. The people on the far right and on the left are often the most politically-committed. You can damn them for their one-sided views, their bigotry or racism writ loud, but you can't damn them for having too loud a voice. Instead, it's down to you to speak up. As ever, it's best to try to be informed. Nothing truer that the adage that it's better to be thought a fool that to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Apr 22 - 02:41 AM

Donuel
sqid
The last 10 years have been populated by uniquely stupid digital warriors on social media who believe the 'ends justify the means'.

Hyper viralized comments on social media are not a solution, it is an acid eating away our institutions and democracy.
Our kids are watching and have reponded with self harm and growing suicide. Facebook like apps have hurt and not helped imo.
The right wing and extreme left have too loud a voice along with Russain bots and trolls."
Perhaps that is the reason China and Russia bans facebook, to stop mis information.
should US ban Fox News?

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Apr 22 - 01:21 AM

DailyTelegraph
17 Mar 2022 — France continued to issue dozens of arms export licences to Russia after the EU imposed an embargo on weapons sales to Vladimir Putin's regime .

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Apr 22 - 01:17 AM

Daily Mail uk
18 Mar 2022 — France, Germany and Italy used a loophole in a ban of exporting arms to Russia to send the Kremlin €296million worth of military equipment

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Apr 22 - 06:43 PM

Disclose is an "NGO" site out of France. The reporters appear to be all French. Privately funded. There is a political election underway and they just "disclose" that Macron sold weapons to Russia. Did he really? Are they for real? That's like quoting the National Enquirer - not terribly reliable. Any other sources?

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Apr 22 - 08:29 AM

Putin has declared victory in Mariuple. lol

Declaring victory is tantamount to declaring peace since every peace slogan I have ever heard has failed. As a kid it was 'peace through understanding'. That one didn't get off the ground since it was obvious there is no understanding whatsoever. At most another culture or nation is funny or crazy. Other peace slogans were even more ridiculus; ban the bomb, atoms for peace, hands across America and of course peace on earth good will to men. That last one must really piss off women.

Probably the best reconcilliation speech was the Gettysburg address but that teaching was ignored at the end of the following WW I which created WW II. WW III won't have any reconcilliation speechs, just mutated mountain and cave folks.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Apr 22 - 04:50 AM

As reported by Disclose, France has sold €152 million worth of military equipment to Russia. A figure confirmed by Investigate Europe's analysis, and places France far ahead of its neighbours, exporting 44% of European arms to Russia.17 Mar 2022

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Apr 22 - 03:22 AM

Rain Dog, when it comes to this particular foreign policy , YES. Nothing new there,Historically,in times of WaR the BBC BECOMES A GOVERNMENT MOUTH PEICE. Check out the SECOND WORLD WAR

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Apr 22 - 10:11 AM

Russia is now being asked to let fighters and civilians evacuate to a third country. You know they're not going to do it.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Apr 22 - 08:14 AM

Can/should the US send in the cavalry to rescue the people in Mariuple (their Alamo)?
Russia has given Ukrainians a deadline.

The last 10 years have been populated by uniquely stupid digital warriors on social media who believe the 'ends justify the means'.

Hyper viralized comments on social media are not a solution, it is an acid eating away our institutions and democracy.
Our kids are watching and have reponded with self harm and growing suicide. Facebook like apps have hurt and not helped imo.
The right wing and extreme left have too loud a voice along with Russain bots and trolls.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Apr 22 - 11:38 AM

The US prosecutor of genocide by the Nazis was Benjamin Ferenze
He also helped form the International Criminal Court. Unfortunately Ukraine, Russia and the US have elected to not be members.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Apr 22 - 11:34 AM

I follow a number of good journalists on Twitter, as well as reading online papers from the US, the UK, DV, Al Jazeera English, etc. One can piece together what is happening in Russia, Ukraine, Syria, Yemen, Burma, and other places.

It seems English fighters have been captured by the Russians and are requesting to be traded. At least one of them seems to have landed there before the Russian invasion:

“Aiden is a serving member of the Ukrainian armed forces, and as such is a prisoner of war and must be treated with humanity” according “to the terms of the Geneva Convention”, she was quoted as saying by the newspaper.

“It already looks like he has been beaten up. It is time now for the British government to get involved and help secure Aiden’s release because he is still a British citizen.”

Aslin joined the military in 2018 after relocating to Ukraine to start a family with his fiancée. He previously fought alongside the Kurds against the ISIL (ISIS) group in Syria, the newspaper said.

That from the Al Jazeera source named above.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Apr 22 - 11:07 AM

Despite all the spin, bias and selective bullshit we are undoubtedly fed, I think it's a pretty good bet that the public in western nations is a damn sight better informed that the Russian people.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Rain Dog
Date: 18 Apr 22 - 11:05 AM

"BBC is cunning and subtle, but still is the mouthpiece of the UK political establishment."

Do you honestly think that the BBC is the mouthpiece of the present Tory government?

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Apr 22 - 10:42 AM

WE are not given unbiased info as to what goes on either. as you say nothing is simple and neither are we given top secret information as to what goes on.
BELOW is an example, THE 1973 MINERS STRIKE. THE FOLLOWING WAS RELEASED UNDER THE 50 YEAR RULE IN THE UK. Jo Gormley and Ray Buckton were reporting back to MI5, ON UNION LEADERS DISCUSSIONS DURING THE MINERS STRIKE.
Steve, you are no better informed of what diplomats and governments are doing any more than the Russian people or the Chinese people OR THE American people.
no GOVERNMENT releases top secret info until at least 50 years after the events.
so please stop this stuff about the Russian people being less informed than anyone else. Western news is also biased, some more than others FOX news would be more extreme than the BBC, BBC is cunning and subtle, but still is the mouthpiece of the UK political establishment.
do you ever look at the Chinese news?

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Apr 22 - 08:54 AM

If a Russian gunner fires at non-combatants under direct ORDERS from the Kremlin, or under orders from a commander who is taking orders from the Kremlin, then it is a Putin war crime. If he carries out the action whilst not under direct, specific command to aim at that target, knowing that he is targeting those non-combatants, or aims at civilian areas without regard for the risk of harming civilians, then it's his war crime. All combatants should know the rules of war, and claiming ignorance of them would be no excuse. I suppose that it would be difficult for an under-orders Russian soldier with a conscience to refuse to engage in what he would know to be a war crime. As for the Russian people, we could, in the case of many of them, in particular the ones who support Putin, discuss whether they are aiding and abetting war crimes. That would be a difficult area, as we know that Russian people are not given accurate information about what's going on. Nothing's simple.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Apr 22 - 08:37 AM

This should be titled Putin and his war crimes,
it is no more the fault of the Russian people, than it was the fault of the Chinese people when Tibet was invaded, or the Fault of the American people when in 2001 the USA President Bush ordered the invasion of    Afghanistan, and later Iraq
In October 2002, Congress granted President Bush the power to decide whether to launch any military attack in Iraq. The Iraq War began in March 2003, when the US, joined by the UK, Australia, and Poland, launched a "shock and awe" bombing campaign

Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Apr 22 - 04:39 AM

Russia spends $65.and is ranked no 4 in the world, behind India and China

The Top 10 Military Spenders
Rank        Country        Military Spend 2019 ($B)
#1        United States        $732.0
#2        China        $261.0
#3        India        $71.1
#4        Russia        $65.1
There would appear to be no reason that any of us know as to why Russia has invaded, none of us are informed as to what goes on behind the scenes., that information is highly classified
What is clear to me is that all the time billions are spent on military, there will be a temptation for countries with large expenditure to use it.

Subject: RE: BS: Russain war crimes
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Apr 22 - 04:20 PM

Indeed. It stank.

Subject: RE: BS: Russain war crimes
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Apr 22 - 03:39 PM

We've had our moments, Maggie, but getting rid of that rotten thread was truly one of your brilliant moves.

Subject: RE: BS: Russain war crimes
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Apr 22 - 03:03 PM

That thread came from a place of vitriol that wasn't going to do anything but start fights. Several members expressed disgust with it. I even posted to it, but had a bad feeling about it from the beginning.

The topic can be discussed, but I would suggest a less hot-headed member of the group start something like that. And someone who doesn't start way too many threads already.

Subject: RE: BS: Russain war crimes
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Apr 22 - 02:39 PM

Where is the US war crime thread? A bit heavy handed don't you think?
I was musing about crimes and thought how one can perjure themself, or the crime of suicide where one kills themself. What about the possibility that all crimes are against oneself despite a victim being involved? I tend to think how all crimes are commited against other people but consider how all crimes are actually committed upon oneself unless they are social psychopaths who are deeply damaged and without empathy. The answer lies in a broad definition of an enlightened self. Self includes a we, doesn't it? This may be a different way of thinking for some of you but...

I think it is a bit social psychopathic to shut people the fuck up with a push of a delete button.
There is the old saying of throwing babies out with the bathwater if you get my drift.

Subject: RE: BS: Russain war crimes
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Apr 22 - 10:39 AM

Dick, this thread is about Russian war crimes. The impulse to change the subject would be better served by posting to a thread dedicated to that topic. And that long copy/paste has been deleted because it was too much and it was off topic. I will not that those other war-crimes threads are difficult (and often closed) because someone's ox is always gored, and the usual parties arrive to defend their favorite antagonists.

For now, with the ongoing invasion of Ukraine, keep this thread to discussing Ukraine.

Subject: RE: BS: Russain war crimes
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 16 Apr 22 - 10:00 AM

"Let the one who is without sin cast the first stone."
Is there a country in the world that has not committed war crimes? Is there any country that has not committed some degree of genocide? A British friend of mine left Kenya after it gained independence and traveled around the world seeking an English speaking country in which to settle. He settled in Canada "because it had not treated its indigenous as badly" as other countries had. Now, we find it has done just as badly as anywhere else.

Of course we are only assessing "white" countries in this regard; other colours have, and are, committing mass genocide in a number of countries throughout the world, as I write...

I have never doubted the war crimes of the USA; growing up there as a "liberal" and a Quaker and the daughter of a man who paid a great deal of attention to the workings of the world, I have heard of those crimes most of my life.

And now, we have Putin. And a world wide news network. Are these Russian war crimes? Putin is the embodiment of Hitler and the people who follow his orders are "just following orders". To rape? To murder? To starve the enemy? Medieval warfare? medieval thinking?

Like Jeri, I wish for an end to it. I am in a state of shock that this man has been allowed to waltz into Ukraine - unstopped. That he thought it possible, seems to believe it is his right... I recall that people tried, and failed, to kill Hitler - hoping this one death would prevent the many.

What now? Is there good reason to believe added efforts to stop Putin (not the Russians but the head) might create a worse situation? And we, who are basically powerless to do other than help the displaced, the survivors, find new space, new lives, can only wonder why. "When will they ever learn?"

I look at the mess and grieve for the people, for the animals, for the destroyed homes and buildings, for the desecration of the environment at a time when some of us are recognizing the need to take far better care of it. While I take care to use as little as possible, mega gallons of fossil fuels are being mis-used to destroy; more will be needed to rebuild. Insanity.

These are not merely war crimes, they are crimes against the planet, the future generations... I grieve.

Subject: RE: BS: Russain war crimes
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 08:16 PM

Dick (yeah, I'm "considering the source"), Trump supporters are probably saying Putin's a genius, so you got that wrong. It's not that I want war, but I'd like it if Putin were stopped from murdering more thousands of innocent Ukrainians. I suspect the Russian people might have a better chance of stopping him.

Subject: RE: BS: Russain war crimes
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 07:40 PM

Benford's law revealed 149,000 russain internet bots.

Subject: RE: BS: Russain war crimes
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 07:34 PM

It's "practicing" in America, Dick.

Subject: RE: BS: Russain war crimes
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 05:28 PM

Sandman, over here there are alot of people who have been victims of fraud and were rooked, cheated, scammed, lied to, poisoned, brain bleached, systemically led astray and taught a version of reality that was not helpful. These people are not particularly vengeful but have given up on being able to control their well being and sometimes would rather the whole system would just blow up. Granted the system is 98% corrupt and used for the people with enough capitol to destroy people like obstacals in their path but there is always 2% hope the destructive people will fall.

What feels random, is not.
Check out Benford's law

Subject: RE: BS: Russain war crimes
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 05:01 PM

"never mind the thread of world war" quote
good to see the desire for peace is alive in the USA,
That quote sounds like a warmongering statement ,is that the sort of thing Trump supporters say

Subject: RE: BS: Russain war crimes
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 04:56 PM

2 points:
1) It is well reported that, long since, GPS was not jammed per se, but overrode with false data wherever Putin's motorcade was travelling. One ship in the Black Sea reported errors - it is serious because ships take a long time to slow down, and it was Putin's convoy in the area. GPS signals are weak, falsifying them only needs a stronger signal.

2) The ex PM of Finland gave a very measured interview on Youtube (can't remember the URL). He made the point that there are 3 words for "truth" in Russian, one of which is Pravda. He gave the translation of "tactical truth". In English that might be "white lie" - there you have it, Russian language/culture use alt truth, where English says lie. Its all in the emphasis. And wasn't/is Pravda a Russian newspaper?

Subject: RE: BS: Russain war crimes
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 03:50 PM

jeri, practising.not practicing
And thankyou for wanting us to have a world war,so kind of you and considerate of other people.,

Subject: RE: BS: Russain war crimes
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 03:18 PM

Thanks Donuel.

Subject: RE: BS: Russain war crimes
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 03:09 PM

Source: a journalist on Democracy Now this morning.
A Ukraine children's center showed signs of child genocide. Putin claims fake news.
same source.

Subject: RE: BS: Russain war crimes
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 02:18 PM

I'm fairly sure Donuel was repeating something he heard on Rachel Maddow. He does that.
She talked about the cyber stuff, and Russia practicing screwing up the power grid - in Ukraine AND the US.

I hate war, but I'm getting to the point where I wouldn't mind us, or other countries, getting involved in kicking Putin's ass, and never mind the threat of
world war" anything. Except maybe not tempting China to get involved.

Subject: RE: BS: Russain war crimes
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 11:36 AM

Source please Donuel.

Subject: RE: BS: Russain war crimes
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 08:56 AM

140,000 Ukrainian children have been transported to Russia for adoption, orphaned or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Russain war crimes
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Apr 22 - 10:50 AM

There was a long report on this during the BBC news on my local NPR radio station today.

Lots of rape and murder happening.

Subject: BS: russain war crimes
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Apr 22 - 09:34 PM

Russia is jamming the American GPS signals in Finland and Ukraine.
Russia is commiting murder in Ukraine.
For now Putin is Russia.