Masterpiece Theatre & Bagpipe tunes

Subject: RE: Masterpiece Theatre & Bagpipe tunes
From: greg stephens
Date: 15 Nov 05 - 12:36 PM

The original piping contest in Kidnapped is between Alan Breck Stewart and Robin Oig McGregor, Rob Roy's song: no ferrymen, of course, are involved. There is, naturally, no mention of "Amazing Grace", neither do they drink Coca-Cola or have red hair and freckles or anything else inserted for the benefit of American audiences.
They first play what is described as a "spring", both inserting theirvery best twiddly bits. Robin Oig wins the competition easily, Alan Breck acknowledges this extremely grumpily. Robin Oig then plays, very beautifully, a pibroch that he knows the Appin Stewarts are very fond of, and Alan (being an Appin Stewart) changes mood completely, and the two proceed to drink Athol Brose and get rat-arsed, while playing tunes all night. Now, it is technically possible that in this latter stage of the evening someone might have played "Amazing Grace", but frankly I would have thought the "Star Spangled Banner" was about as likely, historically speaking.

Subject: RE: Masterpiece Theatre & Bagpipe tunes
From: Tootler
Date: 15 Nov 05 - 11:54 AM

The tune we know as "Greensleeves" was probably one of a set of variations on a ground or bass line. A similar tune appears in Playford's dancing master under the title "Green Sleeves and Yellow Lace"

It was common practice in the 16th century to improvise variations or divisions on a ground and a number of standard grounds were in circulation. I think (but am not certain) the one over which Greensleeves was written is called Passamezzo Antico. English Lute players were much admired in Europe at this time for their ability to make divisions.

Subject: RE: Masterpiece Theatre & Bagpipe tunes
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 11:28 PM

Maybe Mudcat can get a lucrative contract with the BBC to furnish them with reliable research sources!**bg**

Subject: RE: Masterpiece Theatre & Bagpipe tunes
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 11:11 PM

There's no evidence that Henry even knew the tune, and the attribution to him is later, and apocryphal. There is no reason to think that it was "traditional" at that time. The earliest reference to the title is in the Stationers Register (3 September 1580), and it's likely enough that the tune was composed around then, though it didn't appear in print or surviving MSS until considerably later.

What Child is This, far from being "Elizabethan", is a 19th century text, written by William Chatterton Dix. It was later set to the Greensleeves tune in American hymnals.

All this has been gone over in long and tedious detail in previous discussions. There are very few songs about which more nonsense has been put about than Greensleeves, I'm afraid; and most of it can be found here by those with the patience to plough through it.

Subject: RE: Masterpiece Theatre & Bagpipe tunes
From: Melani
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 10:31 PM

I'm sorry to have missed the second half of "Kidnapped," but I wasn't totally pleased with the first half. It strayed too far from the original book for my taste. I read it when I was 11, and it totally changed my life, since it led to historical research which then led to other related interests, and is indirectly responsible for what I am doing right this minute--hanging around a folk music forum.I hope it will be re-broadcast so I can catch the rest of it.

Re: "Greensleeves"--my understanding is that Henry VIII wrote a set of words to the traditional tune for Anne Boleyn, and that Elizabeth commissioned the writing of the Christams carol "What Child Is This?" to the same tune. ?

Subject: RE: Masterpiece Theatre & Bagpipe tunes
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 11:00 AM

Thank you, leeneia! I look forward to seeing it.

They did it, again, this week! In the "Virgin Queen," last night, they had Elizabeth playing the harpsichord. She was playing "Greensleeves" and noting to her visitor that her "father wrote it."

Ah...I think BBC needs to require its music researchers to be members of Mudcat!!

Subject: RE: Masterpiece Theatre & Bagpipe tunes
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 11:55 PM

Be comforted, kat. Much of Scotland is beautiful, beautiful, and not littered with telegraph poles and so forth.

Subject: RE: Masterpiece Theatre & Bagpipe tunes
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 05:18 PM

Thanks, Malcolm. I was hoping you'd share you knowledge on this.

kat

Subject: RE: Masterpiece Theatre & Bagpipe tunes
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 11:42 AM

For background on the best-known tune to which Amazing Grace is sung, see various past discussions; in particular Is 'Amazing Grace' a Celtic song?, which identifies, if not the ancestor of the tune, at least what appear to be some older relatives.

It isn't so much that the tune was "lost to the pipes until the 1960s", but that there appears to be no evidence that it had ever been considered a pipe tune until around that time.

Subject: RE: Masterpiece Theatre & Bagpipe tunes
From: Alice
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 10:46 AM

I thought the mountains looked like Montana! I wondered as I watched if it was filmed in Canada or NZ.

Subject: RE: Masterpiece Theatre & Bagpipe tunes
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 10:17 AM

Scotus, I thought the mtns looked too peak-ed and white with snow!LOL

Subject: RE: Masterpiece Theatre & Bagpipe tunes
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 09:51 AM

Maybe the film crews dont like midges.

Subject: RE: Masterpiece Theatre & Bagpipe tunes
From: Scotus
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 09:48 AM

I had a funny feeling it wasn't Scotland - the mountains in the background just didn't seem right to me.

I know dozens of places they could have filmed it without a powerline or telephone pole in sight - Rannoch moor or Cairngorms for a start.

Jack

Subject: RE: Masterpiece Theatre & Bagpipe tunes
From: jimmyt
Date: 09 Nov 05 - 09:42 PM

I felt the same way when watching it! I thought everything was grand and then along came Amazing Grace.   Sorta lost its edge thewreafter   jimmyt

Subject: RE: Masterpiece Theatre & Bagpipe tunes
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Nov 05 - 03:13 PM

Glad to know I wasn't the only one!

Unfortunately, I just found this, in answer to your query of where it was filmed:

from NZHerald.com 24.02.05

The BBC is under fire for opting to film the famous adventure story Kidnapped in New Zealand, rather than in Scotland where it was originally set.

While Robert Louis Stevenson set his tale in the rugged hills and glens of Scotland, the BBC shunned it for North Otago.

Head of BBC children�s drama Elaine Sperber told the Scottish Press Association that New Zealand offered better choice.

Scotland lacked panoramic views and was littered with telegraph poles, pylons and caravans, she said.

There's more at the website link. Is that true about Scotland? I find it hard to believe it is so littered, esp. farther north!

kat

Subject: RE: Masterpiece Theatre & Bagpipe tunes
From: Scotus
Date: 09 Nov 05 - 02:42 PM

Funnily enough I was just congratulating them on having the cast sing 'Up an War them a Wullie', which IS completely authentic to the period, when along came 'Amazing Grace'!

I also agree that it was otherwise a pretty good stab at RLS. I thought it captured the dark mood of the book particularly well - and the tapsel teerie chase across the Highlands.

Does anyone know where it was filmed? Were the Highlands actually the Highlands? I'm sure they didn't use South Queensferry - where was that?

Jack Beck

Subject: RE: Masterpiece Theatre & Bagpipe tunes
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 09 Nov 05 - 12:55 PM

It looks to me like you are right, kat, and they should have done more research. I know the error would stick out for me if I had watched the show.

By the way, I dislike Amazing Grace so much that I have told my husband that if they play it at my funeral, I will come back and haunt him. He understands.

Subject: RE: Masterpiece Theatre & Bagpipe tunes
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Nov 05 - 11:13 AM

refresh

Subject: Masterpiece Theatre & Bagpipe tunes
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Nov 05 - 03:38 PM

We just watched the second and final episode of the new Masterpiece Theatre new production of Kidnapped. It was quite good, imo, and the scenery was HOME and breathtaking. They were doing really well, until near the very end, when there was a quick bit of a sour note, imo. STILL worth the watching regardless, don't get me wrong.

The character, Alan Breck, had a bagpipe-playing duel with a ferryman for the use of one of his skiffs(?). Of course, Breck won. The last piece he played, just before the bounty hunters came upon them, was "Amazing Grace." It seemed a gratuituos addition to what had been a wee bit of fun piping.

Now, Kidnapped was first published in 1886. I found the following on Wikipedia, which I know is not infallible, but I would appreciate knowing if you lot agree with what it says about Amazing Grace being lost to the pipes until the 1960's. If so, I'd think MT ought to have done a bit more research!:-) Thanks, here 'tis (Nice to see the Ritchie family noted!):

    For the Spiritualized album, see Amazing Grace (album).

"Amazing Grace" is one of the most well-known Christian hymns. The words were written by John Newton; they form a part of the Olney Hymns that he worked on, with William Cowper and other hymnodists.

John Newton (1725–1807) was the captain of a slave ship. On 10 May 1748 returning home during a storm he experienced a "great deliverance". In his journal he wrote that the ship was in grave danger of sinking. He exclaimed "Lord have mercy upon us". He continued to traffic in slaves thereafter, nonetheless.

The now familiar and traditional melody of the hymn was not composed by Newton, and the words were sung to a number of tunes before the now inseparable melody was chanced upon.

There are two different tunes to the words. "New Britain" first appears in a shape note hymnal from 1831 called Virginia Harmony. Any original words sung to the tune are now lost. The melody is believed to be Scottish or Irish in origin; it is pentatonic and suggests a bagpipe tune; the hymn is frequently performed on bagpipes and has become associated with that instrument. The other tune is the so-called "Old Regular Baptist" tune. It was sung by the Congregation of the Little Zion Church, Jeff, Kentucky on the album "The Ritchie Family of Kentucky" on Folkways (1958).

The association with bagpipes is a relatively modern phenomenon; for over a century the tune was nearly forgotten in the British Isles until the folk revival of the 1960s began carrying traditional musicians both ways between the British Isles and the United States (where Amazing Grace had remained a very popular hymn). It was little known outside of church congregations or folk festivals until Arthur Penn's film "Alice's Restaurant" (1969). Lee Hays of the Weavers leads the worshipers in "Amazing Grace".

Newton's lyrics have become a favourite for Christians of all denominations, largely because the hymn vividly and briefly sums up the Christian doctrine of Divine grace. The lyrics are loosely based around the text of Ephesians 2:4-8.

It has also become known as a favorite with supporters of freedom and human rights, both Christian and non-Christian, as it is believed by many to be a song against slavery, as Newton was once a slave trader. He continued to be a slave trader for several years after his experience, but with more compassion. Later he became a clergyman. The song has been sung by many notable musical performers.

The hymn was quite popular among both sides in the American Civil War. While on the trail of tears, the Cherokee were not always able to give their dead a full burial. Instead, the singing of Amazing Grace had to suffice. Since then, Amazing Grace is often considered the Cherokee National Anthem. For this reason, many contemporary Native American musicians have recorded this song.

Thanks,

kat