My six years olds class

Subject: My six years olds class
From: GUEST,Spaceman
Date: 13 Feb 01 - 01:10 PM

I did the following with my six years old class from a Kodaly Method book:

"I gave them four-beat rhythmic values/phrases. As I pointed, children clapped and say first the words and then the rhythm with "Ta's" and "Ti-Ti"s", Kodaly Method. "Then we clapped different animals, instruments and the babies of each kind of animal. Then I clapped rhythms and they echoed those back and echo speak it back", Kodaly method book.

I encountered the following problem: While the students were able to clap the animals, the instruments, their names and rhythms they had difficulty in echoing those back with Ta=quarter note and TiTi's-eighth notes.

The same problem I encountered wheh "I Played on the piano and had the children speak back its rhythms pattern in "Ta" and "Ti".

I had no problem when "I chanted a chant and children echoed it back first with words while clapping". However they had the same problem when "repeating it back with Tis and Tas."

How can I develop their understanding of "Ta"'s and "Ti-Ti" 's?

When we played a game of who will first clap back correctly the rhythm of their names they got it right with their name clapping but they could still not find in the "Ta"'s and "Ti-ti"'s of the rhythms they were clapping.

What shall I do?

Subject: RE: My six years olds class
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Feb 01 - 01:23 PM

Interesting one. I have no education in music, but I'd try substituting something meaningful for the Tas and Titis. Maybe they could do it better with Yes and NoNo, or Mom and Daddy, or something less abstract? I've run into that with short-term or working memory capacity - an adult can recall 7 (+/- 2) things that make sense, like a seven-digit number. Little kids don't do too well with digits, but can remember 7 +/- 2 little animal pictures. My thinking is that they have nothing to "hang" tas and titis on, so they are thinking about the tas and titis, not about the task. Let me know if it works, it's an idea, not an experience!

Subject: RE: My six years olds class
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 13 Feb 01 - 02:41 PM

I vaguely remember tas and titis from my scool days and found them as uninspiring now as I did then not to mention the comic smutty element. I think using real words at this age is fine. Sausages and mash were always a favourite of mine. I teach year 1 primary (5/6)and we do name rhythms animals and nursery rhymes and also just capping .

Subject: RE: My six years olds class
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 13 Feb 01 - 03:59 PM

I do good ol' ta and titi because they are standard syllables for teaching elementary rhythms, and it's convenient to make the sounds the same across the board and from school to school. My theory is that you gave them too much info at once- at least, did you all that you said above in one session? I would introduce ta and titi in the third or a later session, once I was sure they had the concept first steady beat, and then of long and short sounds. I often introduce the symbols, an upright stroke for ta and 2 strokes connected by a beam for titi, before I give them names, and use them with the animal or food names, as a visual recognition. Soon they begin to get it that the one that stands alone is a longer sound, the "steady beat" sound, and the "monkey bars" are shorter sounds. Then I give them names, and we chant the names and clap, or just chant, always in the context of words of a rhyme, such as
"Apple peach, pears and plums
Tell me when your birthday comes"

It takes time for young children to learn the sounds and symbols- think of the years it takes them to learn to read letters and words and sentences and paragraphs!

Subject: RE: My six years olds class
From: black walnut
Date: 13 Feb 01 - 07:05 PM

i'm totally with animaterra (once again!)...the system is a good one. success has to do with pacing and enthusiatic, creative delivery. you don't need to reinvent the wheel. the wheel works.

anamaterra is right on....break things down into smaller bits. find ways to repeat and strengthen each building block before preceeding to the next element. get the basics down...it's worth the time and effort!

and have fun with it.

please let us know how things go....

~black walnut

Subject: RE: My six years olds class
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Feb 01 - 09:19 PM

Don't remember the Ta's, but sure remember the titties!

Subject: RE: My six years olds class
From: GUEST,Spaceman
Date: 14 Feb 01 - 07:01 AM

Dear Animatera:

How do you teach and how can I teach frst to these children the concept of short and long sounds?

I myself introduced that as running on tas and walking on titis. I then put some fast music and children run and said titi and then some slow music and the children walked and said ta. I also introduced the quarter put four quarter notes on the floor and children walked on these and said ta. Then I put eighth notes and children runed on these and said titi. I also used the uprighth stroke for ta and 2 strokes for titi and they also formed thses patterns with their bodies as well.

Also how do you use Ta and titi with animal and food names? Do you use them like me? i.e. you clap animal names and food names?

Subject: RE: My six years olds class
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 14 Feb 01 - 01:44 PM

Sorry but the idea of getting my kids to run around shouting titi when I spend most if my time and energy trying to stop them fills me with dread

Subject: RE: My six years olds class
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 14 Feb 01 - 05:55 PM

LOL Mrs Duck!
ceman, you're doing great, but how much do you want them to read and why? I have a pretty carefully planned "scope and sequence" from grades one-five (ages 6-10) but do very little music reading with the 6 year olds. I want them to hear the steady beat (also called the pulse), understand about simple rhythm patterns and be able to hear them in a song, especially patterns that are relevant to the song ("cat goes fiddle-I-fee" for ex.). Above all, I want them to enjoy music and to feel that they can sing and play along (with drums, tambourines, wood block, etc.)
By the end of grade 5 they should be able to read the syllables and line-and-space names of the treble clef, read a few time signatures, hear major and minor keys, keep a steady beat, read and play several complex rhythms while others are being played at the same time, sing in 2-part harmony, and so on. In the early years I build skills that lead to this confident musicianship. So at age 6 they do "pre-reading" (pictures: cat cat fiddle&bow cat cat)
Later I would add the symbols and even later use the symbols with no pictures. My goal for the end of the school year is that the kids age 6 to recognize ta, titi and rest and play and sing them. It's a whole school year of re-enforcing those and other melodic concepts (do re mi sol la). A whole year! So still think about how much you want them to know and what sort of music they will be doing as they continue to learn and grow. It's great that you're spending the time with them!

Subject: RE: My six years olds class
From: GUEST,Spaceman
Date: 22 Feb 01 - 08:21 AM

Animatera:

I am not very clear of your method of teaching. How do yourself break up the activities down to smaller bits? I would very much like to know your own way of teaching steady beat and long and short sounds. Do you use a page/drawing with the upright stroke for ta and 2 strokes connected by a beam for titi and do you write on the drawing animal names and food names? Do you get your students chant in Ta and Titi at all?

HOW SHALL I REINFORCE THE CONCEPTS MENTIONED ABOVE?

Subject: RE: My six years olds class
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 22 Feb 01 - 09:34 PM

How about substituting Dog and Kitty for ta-ta and Ti ti Ie: Dog, dog, Kitty. kitty, kitty? Just a suggestion from someone way out of his league. Kindest reguards, Neil

Subject: RE: My six years olds class
From: Sorcha
Date: 22 Feb 01 - 09:36 PM

GO TO SCHOOL AND GET A MUSIC ED DEGREE IF YOU ARE SERIOUS ABOUT THIS. OTHERWISE, LEAVE THE KIDS ALONE BEFORE YOU TOTALLY DESTROY ANY LOVE OF MUSIC THEY HAVE.

I AM REAL TIRED OF YOU USING KIDS TO SUCKER US IN!! DAMN CAPSLOCK INTENTIONAL!!

Subject: RE: My six years olds class
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 05:16 AM

I'm six years old (give or take 50 years) and want to learn music. Should I go to Spaceman?
RtS (in tears)