BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down

Subject: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 10:58 PM

Just saw this on the Beeb site:

Castro steps aside after surgery

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 11:40 PM

"Raul Castro, 75, will temporarily act as both president and first secretary of the Communist Party."

The key word here is "temporarily". I don't hear the fat lady singing just yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 11:59 PM

I don't think much of the temporary thing. Castro won't willing give up his power, ever. We don't even know if the report is accurate, or the letter legit. What we do know is Castro has never done this before, even when he had health problems (that we only learned of after the fact).

His brother has been more visible in recent weeks, according to reports, and Castro hasn't been seen.

This could just be Raul's way of preparing the ground for his take-over, which may already be a done deal. Remember, most Cubans have never known another leader. Castro is second only to Queen Lizzie in the longevity of rule department, planet wide.

All speculation on my part, of course. But I think this announcement is heralding the end of the era, one way or the other. Even if he makes a comeback, Cubans now know it is only a matter of time before Fidel is gone.

Quite some ride, that one.

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: Amos
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 11:59 PM

From an earlier BBC article:

"Three weeks before his 80th birthday, Cuban President Fidel Castro has joked that he has no plans to be in power when he is 100 years old.

He was addressing 100,000 people who were marking the anniversary of the start of the 1953 Cuban Revolution.

Mr Castro used his speech to make fun of the US, which has set up a $80m (£43m) fund to "boost democracy" when the communist leader dies.

In power since 1959, Mr Castro has so far outlasted nine US presidents."

---

None of them will be in power when they turn 100, either. Sic transit gloria mundi. I wonder, though, which things have gotten better in Cuba since Bautista fell, and which things have not.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 12:58 AM

The BBC headline in the first link is "Castro steps aside after surgery," which doesn't sound like a resignation - but the article says it's the first time he has relinquishe power to anyone, even temporarily, since he came to power in 1959.

I'd say the end is near for Castro - but it ain't here yet.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: Kweku
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 04:43 AM

Mr Castro has so far outlasted nine US presidents. That is interesting. I wonder how it will feel like to have an "enemy" like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: GUEST,hugo
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 06:58 AM

What is amazing to me is the fact that the USA has been allowed to maintain an economic blockade on Cuba for the past 46 or so years. Despite the blockade Cuba has an enviable health care system .
HUGO

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 08:01 AM

Cubans now know it is only a matter of time before Fidel is gone.

Well they'd have to be pretty strange to thin anything else. Obviously he isn't going to be around for ever, or even for that long - he is 80 after all. But I would think it quite likely he'll outlast Bush.

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: Wolfgang
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 08:21 AM

He has stepped aside before for a couple of days some years ago.
People who are elected tend to stay for a shorter time than those who are not.
When I think back very far in my life I can still remember hearing the name Castro as a guerilla leader. However, the queen of the UK has always been in that position in my personal memory (which allows a good guess of my age).

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 10:01 AM

In light of the Project For A New American Century and BuShite past practice, sems pretty obvious what Dumbya's "plan" is.

Maybe they can think of a spiffy name for the invasion of Cuba- maybe "Bay Of Pigs II" & then the U.S. can prop up a dictator like Batista again.

Yessir, the Red White & Blue "There To Set Things Right"


.........

Cubans await news on Castro's health

By ANITA SNOW, Associated Press
Last updated: 9:25 a.m., Tuesday, August 1, 2006

... On Monday...President Bush was in Miami and spoke of the island's future:
"If Fidel Castro were to move on because of natural causes, we've got a plan in place to help the people of Cuba understand there's a better way than the system in which they've been living under," he told WAQI-AM Radio Mambi, a Spanish-language radio station.


[PS: "the system in which they've been living under" ??? God, the man is an embarrassment!)

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 10:08 AM

Hugo makes a very good point. The Cuban poor enjoy a vastly better health system than the poor of the USA.

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 10:11 AM

And crime, especially violent crime, is very low. And that stands in huge contrast to the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: bobad
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 10:13 AM

And also, I believe, literacy and universality of post secondary education.

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: GUEST,Woody
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 12:02 PM

http://www.plenglish.com/article.asp?ID={883786FA-6CDA-479C-AE3A-5AB2C08971F1})&language=EN

Chavez Wishes Fidel Quick Recovery

Hanoi, Aug 1 (Prensa Latina) President Hugo Chavez, who is visiting Vietnam, wished a speedy recovery to the "good friend, forger of ideals, and dream builder" Cuban President Fidel Castro, who underwent surgery on Monday.

Chavez devoted several minutes of his speech before Vietnam´s Chamber of Commerce in this capital, to highlight the Caribbean Island leader´s stature as politician and revolutionary.

He subjected his health to an extreme stress, due to days of international and national exhausting work, which caused him a severe intestinal crisis, with constant bleeding "that forced me to undergo complicated surgery," the leader explained in an announcement to the nation.

The surgery will oblige him to rest for several weeks, away from his duties and responsibilities.

The Venezuelan president said that as soon as he learned about it in the morning, through international television stations, he called Fidel´s office and felt calmed when he was told that he was recovering well, without further complications.

He stressed that "more than a triple friend, Fidel is an infinite friend," referring to the idea of friendship of Sergio Rodriguez, the teacher of the Liberator Simon Bolivar, and historic figure in Venezuela.

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: bill kennedy
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 03:00 PM

I, a US citizen, wish Fidel Castro a quick and complete recovery and many more years as leader (not ruler) of the Cuban people. And I can't wait until Bush and his cronies are out of power, hopefully they will never be able to enact thier 'plan' for the future of the Cuban government. I find it a comical, infantile assumption professed by US media all these years that Fidel is the obstacle, and that without him the Cuban people will rise up and welcome Uncle Sam back as ruler (not leader). Will we be bombing the Cuban people into submission in a few years? I hope not.

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: SINSULL
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 03:19 PM

I wonder if that "better way of life" Bush has in mind for the Cubans is nearly as good as the one he has provided for the Iraqis and Afghans?
I knew a man years ago who as a child lived with his uncle's head on a stake in the front yard for weeks. He had no love for Castro.
I wish no one ill.

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 04:27 PM

"we've got a plan in place to help the people of Cuba

Coming from Bush that sounds like a pretty terrifying threat.

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: Ernest
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 08:40 AM

Funny thing... if Fidel Castro is such a good leader for the Cuban people, and things are so good there.... why are so many people try to immigrate to the US instead of Cuba?

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: MarkS
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 08:48 AM

And why are so many Cubans risking leaky boats and rafts to come to the US?

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: Les from Hull
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 09:10 AM

Actually, things might be better for the Cuban people if successive US governments had not prevented Cuban goods from entering the US market and not made things difficult for the Cuban holiday trade. Of course, if they had have done, Communism would have spread across the USA by now, wouldn't it?

And do people here actually believe that Queen Elizabeth II has anything at all to do with the running of the United Kingdom, or for that matter, anywhere else where she is Queen? Where did you people go to school? Is it to late to get your money back?

Best Wishes to Senor Castro for a quick and full recovery.

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 09:26 AM

We've got to bomb Castro
Got to bomb him flat
He's too damn successful
And we can't risk that!
How do I know?
Read it in the Daily News.

-Tom Paxton ca 1964

Plu ça change....

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 11:00 AM

The US Government, and that means all of us citizens as well, practices state terrorism in many ways, in this case economic terrorism. The economic embargo of Cuba by the US since 1960 has been in place in the hopes that if the Cuban people suffered enough as a result, they would rise up and form a counter-revolution, allowing US corporations and interests back in. That is terrorism, the intentional harming of innocent civilian populations for a strategic goal. BUT, it has not worked. Many Cubans ARE suffering because the US won't buy anything from Cuba and won't sell anything to Cuba, like medicine, food etc. People risk thier lives in small boats because they are desperate, not because they hate Fidel or his economic policies. In spite of all this, there is not as much hunger and homelessness in Cuba as there is in the US, they have universal health care, education, etc., but a stagnant economy because we won't trade with them keeps many unemployed or underemployed. It is long past time that a handfull of Cuban emigres holds the US hostage through an imbalanced electoral college system of voting. US policy should reflect US values, not corporate greed or upper class assumed privileges.

Viva Fidel, viva Cuba.

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 01:05 PM

Cuba trades with every other country in the world. How come trade with the US is such a essential thing to the well being of another country?

It's bullshit along with all the crap about what a utopia it is in Cuba.

Is North Korea a utopia too?

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: Les from Hull
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 01:38 PM

Have you got a map handy, Old Guy? For any country with such a huge market of rich suckers so near and not be allowed to trade with it is a big problem. In spite of this and all the money the US Government has spent on trying to overthrow the Cuban Government, nothing of the sort has happened. Oh and part of that money I mentioned is used to convince the gullible that the Cuban system is unfair (presumably because it doesn't allow Corporate America to exploit them).

Nobody said that Cuba is a utopia, it's just a bit more egalitarian than most. For a country that is not particularly rich in natural resources, it's not doing too bad in world terms. And Utopia was no utopia anyway since it accepted slavery.

Cuba would of course be richer if it didn't have to spend a large part of its GNP on armed forces to defend itself from a large aggressive country to the North with a track record of invading neutral counties.

You could stop reading those newspapers and listening to those TV news reports if you want to have a balanced view of what's going on in the world.

North Korea is not the subject of this thread. Is changing the subject an admission of something on your part?

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 03:08 PM

If the US government's quarrel with its neighbour was actually about freedom and democracy, Cuba would be a long way down the list of priority states, well behind many of America's favourite allies.

Imagine that there was a genuinely free election in Cuba tomorrow (which would be a very good idea) - and Castro and his colleagues was overwhelmingly confirmed in power (which is the most likely outcome).   Does anyone seriously think that this would change the attitude of the Bushites?

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: Ernest
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 03:42 PM

So why do Castro & Co don`t have genuinley free elections then?

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: DougR
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 04:08 PM

True, Hugo, the Cubans have good healthcare evidently, but those that can afford them drive 1957 Cheverolets.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: bobad
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 04:18 PM

If I could afford a '57 Chevy, I'd be driving one too.

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 05:41 PM

Cuban Hospital room

Medical care is free in Cuba

Dr. Darsi Ferrer Ramírez, Director of the Juan Bruno Zayas Health and Human Rights Center in Havana, sent these photos of Yamilet Fernandez Donate, a 32 year old Cuban woman who almost died after complaining last November 27 of abdominal pain and entering one of Havana's hospitals for Cubans.
At the time, Mrs. Fernandez was six weeks pregnant and wasn't suffering from any diagnosed illness. She entered the Hospital Nacional in Havana where she was given intravenous analgesics and was sent home when the pain subsided.
A few hours later, Yamilet's abdominal pain got much worse and she was also running a fever. She went to the Hijas de Galicia Maternity Hospital. There she was told that her pain was not related to her pregnancy and that she should see the surgeon on duty at the Miguel Enriques Hospital.
In there, she was told that she was suffering from Acute Gastritis and the doctors recommended a gastric suction (stomach pumping or gastric lavage) and after the procedure she was told to go home that everything was now OK.
When Yamilet got much worse, her family took her to the Julio Trigo Hospital. Once there, the doctors told her that what she really had was an Urinary Infection and said that the best thing was to send her back to the Hospital Nacional. In the next couple of days Yamilet's health got much worse. She was in constant pain and running a high fever. She was vomiting, had muscular fatigue and even fainted several times.
After the family kept complaining, the doctors decided to operate the poor woman and they finally determined that she had a perforated appendix, peritonitis and an intestinal occlusion.
After the operation she spent several days in the intensive care unit and later had to have another surgery due to several complications that resulted from the first one. Several days later the doctors told her that they had to perform an abortion.
At the end, and because of the negligence of her doctors, Yamilet lost her baby and also portions of her intestine and colon. She also has very ugly scars on her abdomen to remind her of the pain and suffering that she had to endure at the hands of these butchers dressed as doctors.

Castro has sent thousands of Cuban doctors to Venezuela and many other countries of South America and Africa. And now Cubans who get sick have to endure not only the lack of medicines, but also the lack of qualified medical practitioners.
Of course, those 'doctors' don't have to worry about a malpractice lawsuit since they work for the Cuban regime and the victims don't have any right to complain about their "free healthcare."
Next time that you hear one of Castro's apologists saying that Cubans receive "excellent free healthcare" show them Yamilet's photos and the story of what she went through.

Don't blame the embargo for the lack of medical equipment in Cuba's hospitals. Those who still are trying to defend the indefensible claim that the reason why Cuba's hospital lack the necessary equipment and supplies to treat regular Cubans is because of the US embargo.
But that is another lie perpetrated by Castro's propaganda machine.

No medicines for Cubans, but thousands of tons of medical supplies for Bolivia

While Cubans are told again and again that there are no medicines available for them and their children because of the US embargo, the Cuban dictator is donating thousands of tons of medicines and medical
equipment to Evo Morales in Bolivia.

In this report by a Bolivian TV station, a dissident who is now living in Bolivia explains that when he was living in Cuba, he couldn't find any of the medicines that are now being donated by Castro to Bolivia.

This dissident is now being sought by Castro's agents operating in Bolivia. During this TV program a Bolivian woman calls to offer her home as refuge.
Video


http://www.therealcuba.com/Page10.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 05:55 PM

Fidel and Raoul at work executing a fellow rebel who did not follow orders.

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 06:34 PM

Oops

A Cuban hospital room

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 08:49 PM

So things never go wrong in hospitals in other countries?

Some statistics from a piece in Wednesday's Guardian: "Cuba has an average life expectancy of 77.3 against the US's 77.4. The rates of infant mortality are similarly close. The respective health spends, however, underline the Cuban miracle: in the US, the annual figure per head is $5,711; in Cuba, it's $251."

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 09:42 PM

http://www.canf.org/Issues/medicalapartheid.htm
    Health Care in Cuba: Myth Versus Reality

    Cuba's Economic Choice: The Regime's Health Over the People's

    Cuba's economy is in disarray as a direct result of its government's continued adherence to a discredited communist economic model. This decline has directly affected the health of ordinary Cubans. Lack of chlorinated water, poor nutrition, deteriorating housing, and generally unsanitary conditions have increased the number of cases of infectious diseases, especially in concentrated urban areas like Havana.

    The grave economic problems in Cuba were exacerbated by the demise of the Soviet Union and the ending of the $5 billion in subsidies that the U.S.S.R. gave annually to the Castro government. Cuba made significant advances in the quality of health care available to average citizens as a result of these subsidies. However, it devoted the bulk of its financial windfall to maintaining an out-sized military machine and a massive internal security apparatus.

    The end of Soviet subsidies forced Cuba to face the real costs of its health care system. Unwilling to adopt the economic changes necessary to reform its dysfunctional economy, the Castro government quickly faced a large budget deficit. In response, the Cuban Government made a deliberate decision to continue to spend money to maintain its military and internal security apparatus at the expense of other priorities--including health care.

    According to the Pan American Health Organization, the Cuban Government currently devotes a smaller percentage of its budget for health care than such regional countries as Jamaica, Costa Rica, and the Dominican Republic.

    Health Care in Cuba: "Medical Apartheid" and Health Tourism

    Of course, not everyone in Cuba receives substandard health care. In fact, senior Cuban Communist Party officials and those who can pay in hard currency can get first-rate medical services any time they want.

    This situation exists because the Cuban Government has chosen to develop a two-tiered medical system--the deliberate establishment of a kind of "medical apartheid"--that funnels money into services for a privileged few, while depriving the health care system used by the vast majority of Cubans of adequate funding.

    Following the loss of Soviet subsidies, Cuba developed special hospitals and set aside floors in others for exclusive use by foreigners who pay in hard currency. These facilities are well-equipped to provide their patients with quality modern care. Press reports indicate that during 1996 more than 7,000 "health tourists" paid Cuba $25 million for medical services.

    Cuba's "Medical Technology Fair" held April 21-25 presented a graphic display of this two-tier medical system. The fair displayed an array of both foreign and Cuban-manufactured medicines and high-tech medical equipment and services items not available to most Cubans. The fair showcased Cuban elite hospitals promoted by "health tourism" enterprises such as SERVIMED and MEDICUBA.

    On the other hand, members of the Cuban Communist Party elite, and the military high-command are allowed to use these hospitals free of charge. Certain diplomatic missions in Havana have been contacted and told that their local employees can be granted access privileges to these elite medical facilities--if they pay in dollars.

    The founder of Havana's International Center for Neurological Restoration, Dr. Hilda Molina, in 1994 quit her position after refusing to increase the number of neural transplant operations without the required testing and follow-up. She expressed outrage that only foreigners are treated. Dr. Molina resigned from her seat in the national legislature, and returned the medals Fidel Castro had bestowed on her for her work.

    In 1994, Cuba exported $110 million worth of medical supplies. In 1995, this figure rose to $125 million. These earnings have not been used to support the health care system for the Cuban public. In fact, tens of millions of dollars have been diverted to support and subsidize Cuba's biomedical research programs--money that could have been used for primary care facilities.
    U.S. Sales of Medicines and Medical Supplies to Cuba

    The US embargo does NOT deny medicines and medical supplies to the Cuban people. As stipulated in Section 1705 of the Cuban Democracy Act of 1992, the U.S. Government routinely issues licenses for the sale of medicine and medical supplies to Cuba. The only requirement for obtaining a license is to arrange for end-use monitoring to ensure that there is no reasonable likelihood that these items could be diverted to the Cuban military, used in acts of torture or other human rights abuses, or re-exported or used in the production of biotechnological products. Monitoring of sales can be performed by independent non-governmental organizations, international organizations, or foreign diplomats.

    Since 1992, 36 of 38 license requests have been approved to U.S. companies and their subsidiaries to sell medicine and medical equipment to Cuba. Sales have included such items as thalamonal, depo-provera, pediatric solutions, syringes, and other items. The Department of Commerce declined the other two requests for licenses it received for failure to meet legal standards. Both of these exceptions to the general policy of approving commercial medical sales occurred in 1994.

    Moreover, the U.S. embargo on Cuba affects only U.S. companies and their subsidiaries. Other nations and companies are free to trade with Cuba. Should Cuba choose not to purchase from the U.S., it can purchase any medicine or medical equipment it needs from other countries. Such third-country transactions only cost an estimated 2%-3% more than purchases from the U.S. as a result of higher shipping costs.

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 10:28 PM

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2458/4/66
Canada was in 11th place (72.0 years) and the USA in 29th place (69.3 years).

Other countries with reasonably high HALE in the Americas included Argentina (65.3 years), Chile (67.3 years), Costa Rica (67.2 years), Cuba (68.3 years),

Foreign Tourists on a raft

Cuban Citizens on a raft bound for Florida

Toilets for tourists

Toilets for Cuban university students

Home of a basically OK Cuban

Billboard stating "in Cuba old people have dignity and security"

The real plight of old people in Cuba

Want more?

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: bobad
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 10:44 PM

Have a look here Old Guy:

http://www.aliciapatterson.org/APF0902/Shames/Shames.html

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 11:02 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4422567.stm

'Riot' takes place in Cuban jail
By Stephen Gibbs
BBC News, Havana

Wives of political prisoners in Cuba march towards the Palace of the Revolution
Human rights activists provided news of the disturbance
Human rights activists in Cuba say a riot has taken place in one of the country's biggest prisons.

The government has not commented on the reports, but less than three weeks ago admitted to a "minor incident" in the same jail.

The riot at the Combinado del Este prison just outside Havana is believed to have taken place on Tuesday night.

It seems a group of prisoners were protesting at conditions in the jail and at some stage a fire broke out.

Prominent human rights activist Elizardo Sanchez says several prisoners are now seriously ill with burns injuries or the effects of inhaling fumes.

None of Cuba's imprisoned dissidents are believed to have been involved in the disturbance.

'Sub-human' conditions

In the incident three weeks ago, there were rumours that five prisoners had been killed during a riot at the jail.

Cuba's foreign minister said no-one had been killed or seriously injured and that not a shot had been fired by prison guards.

Per capita, Cuba has one of the highest prison populations in the world. Dissidents have described conditions as "sub-human".

Since 1989, the Cuban government has not allowed the International Red Cross to inspect its prisons.

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 11:06 PM

Who yet knows what will happen. News reports say that Raoul Castro, if he really does become the new leader, is not as hard-nosed as Fidel. Whether he would be committed to instituting significant political reform is something else. It's doubtful he would repudiate his brother and his brother's ideology in any way, but I hope I'm proven wrong on that score.

Chanteyranger

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: Ernest
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 04:06 AM

Beware: Thread drift!

Just a question on the side:

If people supporting Bush are to be called "Bushites", can people who support Castro be called "Castrates"?

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: Les from Hull
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 09:19 AM

I don't think anyone here is suggesting that Cuba has the perfect political system, the perfect economy or the perfect anything else. I'm just suggesting that it might be a bit better if the USA took its foot off Cuba's neck!

After all the USA has the best political system money can buy! But you would be better using that money to solve some of your own problems, rather than exporting problems to other countries. What happened to that nice USA of over a century ago that refused to get involved in foreign affairs? And I'm even more disappointed with the current UK administration that seems to back the USA in its bid to dominate the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 09:24 AM

From the news reports last night, it looks as if he is stepping up again.

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 10:10 AM

People that support Castro are both Communists and idiots.

A trade embargo which does not include medical supplies and equipment by the way, does not constitute a foot on Cuba's back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_Cuba

A U.S. arms embargo had been in force since March 1958 when armed conflict broke out in Cuba between rebels and the Batista government. In July 1960, in response to the nationalizations and expropriations by the Castro government, the United States reduced the Cuban import quota of sugar by 700,000 tons; the Soviet Union responded by agreeing to purchase the sugar instead, and further Cuban expropriations followed. A partial economic embargo was imposed by U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhower on October 19, 1960, and diplomatic relations were broken on January 3, 1961—two years after Castro's rise to power. The Soviet Union promptly stepped in, offering Cuba "preferential" trade prices, mainly for the sugar that Cuba exported and the crude oil the USSR sold them.

In response to Cuba's alignment with the Soviet Union during the Cold War, President John F. Kennedy extended Eisenhower's measures by Executive Order, first widening the scope of the trade restrictions on February 7 (announced on February 3) and again on March 23, 1962. (According to former aide Pierre Salinger, Kennedy asked him to purchase thousands of Cuban cigars for Kennedy's future use immediately before the extended embargo was to come into effect.) Following the Cuban Missile Crisis, Kennedy imposed travel restrictions on February 8, 1963, and the Cuban Assets Control Regulations were issued on July 8, 1963, under the Trading With the Enemy Act in response to Cubans hosting Soviet nuclear weapons, which led to the Cuban Missile Crisis. Under these restrictions, Cuban assets in the U.S. were frozen and the existing restrictions were consolidated.

http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cuba001.html

An October 28 U.N. resolution opposing the U.S. embargo of Cuba is a misguided attempt to blame the United States for Cuba's failed economic policies and divert attention from that nation's abysmal human rights record, according to State Department Area Advisor Oliver Garza.

Explaining his vote against the resolution, Garza said arguments that the United States is denying Cuba access to food and water are baseless.

He noted that the United States has donated or sold more than $1 billion in medicine and medical equipment to Cuba since 1992 and licensed the export of more $5 billion in agricultural exports since 2001. Moreover, Garza pointed out, remittances from the United States to Cuba approach $1 billion annually.

"Let there be no doubt," he said, "if Cubans are jobless, hungry, or lack medical care, as the regime admits, it is because of the failings of the current government."

Garza added that the Cuban government is not a victim as it contends, but rather a tyrant that has shown no interest in implementing economic or political reforms and "aggressively punishes anyone who dares to have a differing opinion."

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 10:21 AM

Fidel...
Ma belle
These are words that go together well
Oh, my Fidel

Fidel
You're swell
Those who diss you really, really smell
Oh, my Fidel

Te Quiero, te quiero, te quiero
That's all I have to say
Until I find a way
I will say the only words to you that you'll understand

(chuckle...)

Rave on, you imperialist, bloodthirsty, Walmart-addled, Coca-Cola swilling dupes. You embargoed him. It failed. You invaded him. It failed. You hired the Mafia to kill him. They failed. The CIA attempted to put a chemical on him to make his beard fall out. They failed. Canadians vacation in Cuba every year and you can't stop us, so Ha, Ha, Ha!

God must love Fidel... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: Les from Hull
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 01:36 PM

Het Old Guy - I think you meant to say 'in my opinion' Castro supporters are Communists and idiots. You say that like communists are a bad thing. I think its Marxist-Leninists you have the problem with. Would you welcome a Batista-style government back?

I certainly don't go along with the Castro Cuban African adventure (that was more down to Guevara, though), but that's the way these Marxists are. But I don't think that quoting the US Goverment is the way to encourage a frank open debate (in my opinion).

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 02:28 PM

Would you welcome a Batista-style government back?

Don't try to change his mind with facts....

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 03:11 PM

Would you like King John back?

Don't forget that the US supported Fidel in his revolution but not when he turned socialist.

So you say communists are good? Is that your opinion or a fact? Ever lived in a comunist country? Give us some facts on how great communisim is. Is the UK a socialist country?

First of all what happens when someone in a communist country finds fault with their great leader? The dissidents that are executed are the lucky ones.

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 03:33 PM

Of course the USA supported Fidel...he was a far more decent alternative to Batista, even in American minds until he kicked out the Mafia, the American-owned casinos, the whorehouses, and the big sugar companies and other big corporations! Uh-oh! That offended a lot of very rich people in the USA, people who have major influence on American foreign policy, people who used to vacation and gamble in Cuba and get drunk and screw Cuban prostitutes. Never mind that Castro gave the land back to ordinary Cubans, and gave them schools and doctors...it took money out of American organized crime and American corporate hands. That meant Castro had suddenly become an outlaw in American eyes.

$$$Money$$$ was all that mattered in that decision.

When Castro went to New York, he was expecting to find friends in the US government. They wouldn't even talk to him. That's when he turned to the only other big backer in town...without whom he could not survive...the Russians.

It was inevitable that he would, having been given the cold shoulder by the USA.

I'm not particularly in favor of Communism, no. Neither am I particularly in favor of Fascism which incorporates laissez-faire capitalism, drug-dealing, and rampant crime...which is what you have in many small countries which cooperate with American interests. In either case you get a police state. In the case of American allies, you get a police state with no social safety net and absolutely no hope for the poor.

I live in a country which has the good sense to mix socialism and capitalism to some extent, which is the best way to go. Both socialism and capitalism have many good aspects, and there is absolutely no reason to cling 100% to one or the other when you can have both.

Castro was driven into the arms of the Russians, because a bunch of rich lobbyists and crooks in the USA got offended when he nationalized their holdings. He could have been an American ally, and have been a socialist with no conflict of interest whatsoever. All you had to do was tell the Mafia and the United Sugar Company and a few other such rich criminal clowns to shut up and take their losses.

Let me ask your last question back to you, Old Guy. Do you know what happens when someone in a Latin American fascist capitalist country that is an ally of America finds fault with their great leader? The dissidents that get executed are the lucky ones.

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 03:42 PM

Oh shit. Screwed up the italics again...

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 04:29 PM

2005: Forbes magazine lists Castro among the world's richest people, estimating his net worth at $550 million. In 2006, Forbes increases his estimated worth to $900 million.

First of all what happens when someone in a communist country finds fault with their great leader? What's the answer? Don't try to dilute that with some anti American bullshit.

And I still do not see any evidence of how wonderful communisim is. I see failed communisim in the USSR. I see misery in North Korea. The Cubans are as poor and miserable as any other Latin American country.

The great free medical system is Cuba is a hoax. The high ranking commies and tourists get all the good stuff. The people get shit. Why does Castro tell them the medical shortges are because of a US embargo? There must be something lacking if he is making excuses. There is no embargo on medicine and supplies anyway.

Cuba manufactures and exports medical Equipment and medicine anyway so why should there be any shortages.

HAVANA.- The organizing committee of the 9th International Medical Technology Fair "Health for All" held in Havana awarded gold medals to 38 of the 146 products on display. Seven of gold medal winners are manufactured in Cuba, including multi-channel digital electrocardiograph CARDIOCID-BS, manufactured by CombioMed.

HAVANA.- The Cuban firm MEDICUBA has confirmed its position as the nation's leading medicine exporting company, with a high pharmaceutical production in 14 plants. Over 900 pharmaceutical products, including antibiotics, eye drops, capsules and natural products, are distributed and sold in over 20 countries: Argentina, China, Russia, Ukraine, Brazil and Colombia, among others."

So the US embargo is hurting them?

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 04:40 PM

I was among the people, Old Guy. I was not staying in tourist hotels. Yeah, most of them are poor. But they're considerably better off than they were under Batista, and they're considerably better off than the poor in most of the rest of Latin America.

I don't give a hoot about communism. I'm no admirer of it. Neither am I an admirer of the WalMart approach to society. Can you grasp that?

Your opinions are based on fear, hatred, prejudice, and pre-conceived notions. I've been to Cuba. I've been to Mexico. I've been to Trinidad. They all have their charms. They all have their flaws. You can get in serious shit in any of them in no time flat if you do something stupid or are unaware of the local conditions.

Subject: RE: BS: Era Ends: Castro Steps Down
From: Les from Hull
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 05:23 PM

Thanks LH for your well-reasoned arguments. I think that Old Guy is going to have the same knee-jerk reaction to the word 'communism' however it is used, from that practised by the early Christians to the worst excesses of Stalinism. State communism has a pretty bad track record, although it has probably benefitted more Cubans and Vietnamese than under their previous Governments.