Subject: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: O'Boyle Date: 01 Aug 98 - 01:40 AM Hey Folks, I've been reading recently about the Molly Maguires, a group of Irish Immigrant coal miners who resorted to violence in Anthracite region of Pennsylvania in the 1860's-1870's, and have wondered if there are any songs written about them. I've also been working on a song about them and want to make sure I am not being redundant on the subject, or more importantly, not stealing anybody's lines. If any one knows of any, please post them. Slainte agus tapadh leat, Rick |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: Brack& Date: 01 Aug 98 - 06:13 AM I have an album by a band called the Mooly Maguires somewhere I'll dig it out over the weekend and see what's on it. Mick Bracken |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: Brack& Date: 01 Aug 98 - 06:16 AM Mooly?? I mean Molly |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: Bruce O. Date: 01 Aug 98 - 01:25 PM In George Korson's 'Minstrels of the Mine Patch' is a section on the Molly Maguires, with 8 songs. I don't have 'Coal Dust on the Fiddle', which might be another place to look. |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: O'Boyle Date: 03 Aug 98 - 01:33 AM Bruce, Thanks for the info and any you can give to me later. I used the link to amazon.com and found three books by George Korson, unfortunetly, not the one you mentioned. They did have one called "Pennsylvania Songs and Legends" that by the title looked promising. I think I'll run down to the library and check the book out before purchasing (it was not reviewed on Amazon). Many Thanks Rick |
Subject: Lyr Add: THE MOLLY MAGUIRES^^^ From: skw@worldmusic.de Date: 21 Aug 98 - 03:12 AM The Dubliners sing a song I suppose is about this thread, written by Phil Coulter, on their 1969 album 'At Home With The Dubliners'. I've always wondered who exactly the Molly Maguires were. Now I (sort of) know. Any further information is certainly welcome. - Susanne
Chorus:
Down the mines no sunlight shines
Backs will break and muscles ache
|
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: Big Mick Date: 21 Aug 98 - 03:10 PM One interesting point, the Mollies were not just in this country. Ireland was full of secret societies, and the Mollies existed in Ireland also. There is a book on the subject, I (in my advanced age)just don't remember the title. Mick |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: O'Boyle Date: 22 Aug 98 - 01:45 AM There are a few books about them. the latest is "Making sense of the Molly Maguires" by Kevin Kenny. Rick |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: Pete Peterson Date: 22 Aug 98 - 12:18 PM Don't know any songs about them (think the Corson suggestion a good one!) but my non-fiction book where I learned about them was Arthur H. Lewis--"Lament for the Molly Maguires" and of course the bst fictional treatment is the second half of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's The Valley of Fear-- yes the Mollies (as villains) wound up in a Sherlock Holmes story! |
Subject: Lyr Add: LAMENT FOR THE MOLLY MAGUIRES^^ From: C. Adams Date: 30 Aug 98 - 01:36 AM The Irish Rovers have a song called The Lament for the Molly Maguires on their Shores of Americay album. My best shot at the words is below. Also there was a movie about the Molly Maguires (I think The Molly Maguires was the title) that starred Richard Harris. Chorus Sucking up the coal dust into your lungs Underneath the hills where there is no sun Trying to make a living on a dollar a day Digging coal in Pennsylvan-i-a We left old Ireland, we left our homes Across the ocean we had to roam With five (can't get this word-gusoons?)and a scrawny wife Trying to make some kind of a life Chorus
But the Welsh and the English, the Germans, the Dutch |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: O'Boyle Date: 30 Aug 98 - 02:41 PM Thanks for the song, I'll look for it and the film. The name in the last verse is probably McParlan, he was the pinkerton detective in the case. Slainte Rick |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: Date: 30 Aug 98 - 08:00 PM Rick O'Boyle, Need more background info on the Mollies and coal miners? Check out this book (great bibiography, too)
"The Kingdom Of Coal" Got my copy in 1993 from the U of PA press @ (410)516-6948 in Balitmore MD. Hope this info helps provide you with good info for your song writing. Rosie |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: Steve in Wisconsin Date: 31 Aug 98 - 08:03 PM There is a folk trio in Wisconsin called the Molly Maguires. They spoke of the history, but I can't recall any details to add. Cheers, Steve |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: Dan Milner Date: 04 Sep 98 - 08:56 PM Further to Big Mick's comments on 21AUG, the best song I've heard about the Molly Maguires is about the Mollys in Ireland and their anti-landlordism fight... All you who love your liberty, I hope you will draw near And likewise pay attention and listen unto me. I am a man far from my home in sorrow, grief and woe. Both night and day I mourn away since I left the Shamrock Shore. It was my cruel landlord that I must blame for all. He took from me my farm of land although it was but small. I paid my rent and taxes but he sent me off to roam To seek for employment far from my native home. * * * * * * * My name is Pat Maguire, I'm a shoemaker by trade. I'm one of Molly's darling sons that never was afraid. And if every man in Paddy's land would do the same as me. And fight landlord, sheriff and baliff, then Old Ireland would be free. HTML line breaks added. -JoeClone, 3-Apr-01. |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: dick greenhaus Date: 05 Sep 98 - 02:08 PM Dan- Glad to see you here. Why not beome a member? (It doesn't cost anything, and people can send you personal messages). Do you have a source for the song you posted? |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: Dan Milner Date: 05 Sep 98 - 04:46 PM Thank you for the welcome, Dick. I retired about 5 weeks ago so I hope to be more visible in future. What must one do to be a member? I've been assembling "Pat Maguire" for the last year and a half. I got most of the words from an older gentleman in Co. Donegal with a few odd phrases elsewhere. I've written a verse and a half myself. When I get it finished, you might like to put it in the database. Will include the full provenance at that time. Again, thanks for the welcome. All the best. |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: dick greenhaus Date: 06 Sep 98 - 11:20 AM Dan (and other non-members) If you click on the Mudcat Cafe logo at the top of the page, you'll get to the home page. There's a Membership is Available place to click there. I'll talk to Max about putting a membership link on the forum page. |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: Brack& Date: 07 Sep 98 - 08:54 AM I have an album called The Molly Maguires by a band called The Irish Balladeers. All the songs are those sung by the Irish in the coal mining area of Pennsylvania. It was on Avoca Records, released in 1968. I don't know if you can still get it. Titles Sons Of Molly The song about the Mollys in Ireland and their anti-landlordism fight is supposedly based on the murder of a Justice of the Peace in County Cavan c1845. |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: Dani Date: 07 Sep 98 - 02:44 PM Would add my recommendation of The Kingdom of Coal. Have a lot of family history in those parts, and it really brought to life some of the legends. Also, there's a great book called Breaker Boys with (as I recall) many contemporaneous accounts. As a non-sequitor, there's a train that runs in Allaire Village in Monmouth County, NJ (a wonderful state park) that carries a caboose used in the movie that Sean Connery (?) was in about the Molly Maguires.
|
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: Liam's Brother Date: 07 Sep 98 - 09:54 PM TO: Brack& Would you please give us a verse or 2 of "Pat Dolan or The Song of the Molly Maguires". Thanks. |
Subject: Lyr Add: Pat Dolan or Song of the Molly Maguires From: Brack& Date: 08 Sep 98 - 05:19 AM As requested! There were some parts of this I couldn't make out. This is what I came up with.
Pat Dolan is my Christian name and this I'll tell to you Said Molly to her darlin' sons, "the tyrant shall be humbled With me rigga-a-dum-do, and to hell with the crew The lots were cast, ????????? passed, I scorn to tell a lie Now for this deed, his friends indeed, sent out a fearful call With me rigga-a-dum-do, and to hell with the crew Those Orangemen they all stood then, to fight they thought it folly With me rigga-a-dum-do, and to hell with the crew James McPharlan sang this song in the barroom of Pat Domer's Sheridan House in Pottsville, November 1873. He was a Pinkerton detective who infiltrated and even rose to become an officer in the Union. McPharlan gave information to the police and many were arrested. Irish and catholics were barred from the jury. Twenty members were convicted and then hung. Regards Mick Bracken |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: Liam's Brother Date: 08 Sep 98 - 09:31 AM Thanks, Mick. Very interesting. Looks like a song sung at a moderate tempo. I could probably help you with those few words if I had a copy of the tape. Try me at folkmusic@juno.com if you want. As I'm sure you know, many of the greatest Irish patriots have been Protestants. McPharlan was a Protestant as I recall. Do you know whether he was political (an Orangeman) or was this just a job for him? All the best. |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: O'Boyle Date: 14 Oct 98 - 01:55 AM I found the complete lyrics to Pat Dolan in "Minstrel's of the Mine Patch" by George Korson (mentioned above by Bruce O.) I will transcribe and post it in this thread later this week. Rick |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: Liam's Brother Date: 14 Oct 98 - 06:53 AM Thank you. Seems very interesting and I don't have the Korson book. All the best, Dan |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: Rob O Date: 02 Nov 99 - 10:41 AM I just got the CD of "The Irish and How They Got that Way" and it had an interesting song on it called "The ghost of molly maguire" The chorus is like: And I'll die with my held high For I fought for the men bellow [and something something something] Down in the black hell hole. The verses are spoken by Molly's who are about to be hung for their crimes of murder, or for just being Irish. It's kinda a neat song, and I'd love to find a lyric/chord listing for it. Also, just what is everyone's take on the Molly's of America? From my very very superficial research they seem to be like the Robin Hoods of the coal mines... Rob |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: InOBU@aol.com Date: 03 Nov 99 - 06:54 AM I was wondering when someone would bring up that song that Rob O brings up - The Ghosts of Molly Maguire, Ive been looking for the words for some time. I believe the Irish and How They got that Way, came to the ballad in this way. It was sung by a friend of mine, Marla Collins, a fine singer from the West Vergina Coal communities, I believe, it was also sung by the late New York singer and fiddler, Susan Corrigan (who we all miss). Marla put it on tape for me, and I promptly lost it, however, I will try and get it again and post it, as it is on of the greats... in my less then good recolection of the words and worce spelling... Oh my name it is ___ and no pistol did I fire, But I will die with my head held high for being a Molly Maguire ______ for I fought for the men below, down in the dark of the old mine shaft down in that old hell hole when the ____ and the wind blows meloncoly Stand in the dark with your ear to the wind and youll hear the sons of Molly |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: kc Date: 03 Nov 99 - 12:44 PM I'm at college in western NY, and last year we had the Trinity Irish Dancers at our school, and one of the dances they did was about the Molly McGuires. There was a blurb in the program about the history, and the song and dance were very dark. It was pretty interesting, because I'd never heard about it. I don't have the program here or I'd fill in the name of the song, but I think it might have been instrumental. :-) |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: paddymac Date: 03 Nov 99 - 11:27 PM The Maguires were a 2nd level ruling clan allied with the O'Neils and were centered in the western part of County Fermanagh. I'm not sure of the origin of the "Molly", but I think I've seen it referenced about the time of the 1641 rising, in which the Maguire's and their allied clans featured prominently. |
Subject: Lyr Add: SONS OF MOLLY^^ or GHOST OF MOLLY MCGUIRE From: Len Wallace Date: 04 Nov 99 - 10:42 PM Here's a song about the Molly Maguires that I have performed for a number of years and am currently recording . I have not been able to find who wrote it. But here are the words: SONS OF MOLLY (Songwriter unknown) When the wind blows wild at night in the breaker's melancholy. If you stand in the dark with your ear to the wind you can hear the Sons of Molly. Down in the dark of the old mine shaft you can smell the smoke and the fire. And the whispers low in the mines below are the ghost of Molly Maguire. Let me tell you boys Michel Doyle is my name and I come from Carbon County. I shot the boss of the Lansford Mine and my soul is up for bounty. But I will die with my head held high for I fought for the men below. For the men who slave and sweat and die Down in that black hell hole. Let me tell you boys Everett Kelly is my name and I'm hanging in the morning. I shot John Jones for my skin and bones and I curse the sound of mourning. But I will die with my head held high for I fought for the men below. For the men who slave and sweat and die Down in that black hell hole. Let me tell you boys Alex Campbell is my name and no pistol did I fire. Yet I will fall from the gallows wall just for being a Molly Maguire. But I will die with my head held high for I fought for the men below. For the men who slave and sweat and die Down in that black hell hole. Repeat first verse. |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: InOBU Date: 05 Nov 99 - 07:15 AM GOD BLESS LEN WALLACE!!! I have been looking for those words for years. My dad dug coal as a teenager during the depression and I do a few mining songs - All the best Larry |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: Rob O Date: 05 Nov 99 - 08:37 AM That's it! Now, if I might be so bold... what's the progression? Oh, I'm a teacher and started some short discussions with my history dept (I teach science) and their opinion of the Molly's in America was taht they were just a band of thugs who contributed little to organized labor, and did less to further their own causes with the conditions of migrant miners. What's the other opinions out there? Rob |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: Len Wallace Date: 06 Nov 99 - 07:24 PM There's a good book about the Molly Maguires published a number of years back by International Publishers which was a defense of them. Considering the times, the cruelty of the mine owners, the almost slave like conditions of working in the mines, the racial epithets hurled at Irish workers as "lazy" and "ignorant", it is not surprising that some of the Molly's had taken to violent means to fight against oppression. They had ties to the Ancient Order of Hibernians (a cultural, ethnic, Catholic based organisation) and worked witin it secretly to make contacts. The work of the Mollys to organise a union was not only physically attacked by the employers, but was attacked by the church - the striving for unionism, any kind of radicalism, was considered anathema by the Catholic priests who preached sermons against them. The problem was that under such conditions, in those times, with political rights restricted, when "law and order" so flagrantly opposed to the working class, did the Mollys have any other choice? I think some 10 to 14 members of the Mollys were executed by authorities (hung), most of them innocent men and condemned for crimes they did not commit. Typical example of the justice of the times in the name of capitalist order. |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: GUEST,Mike McC Date: 17 Feb 01 - 07:28 PM Hi! I live near Albany, NY, and we have a very good local group here called Hair of the Dog. They just released their newest CD last weekend, "at The Parting Glass." The third song on the album is called "The Ghost of Molly Maguire"---sung to the lyrics printed by Len. It is excellent, you all should check it out!!! |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: Fiolar Date: 18 Feb 01 - 06:08 AM The origina of the "Molly Maguires" is supposed to be as follows. "Molly" was apparently a poor widow who was evicted from her home an event which inspired anger among her neighbours. By the Famaine of the 1840s the name was invoked by various insurgents in the counties of Cavan, Longford, Donegal and Tyrone. In 1847 a Tyrone landlord received a threatening letter with the postscript "Molly Maguire and her children have been watching you.". They first appeared in the U.S. about 1857 when a society of that name was alleged to be in Pennsylvania. The first documentation however occurs after the American Civil War. Don't forget the 1970 film "The Molly Maguires" starring Sean Connery and Richard Harris, which allowing for some poetic licence is reasonably accurate and is based on a true event. James McParlan as played by Richard Harris really did exist and became the manager of the Pinkerton's Western Division based in Denver. In 1906 he investigated the murder of the ex-governor of Idaho. Jack Kehoe as played by Sean Connery was executed but instead of a clean neck break strangled to death because of an "error" by the hangman. |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: Liam's Brother Date: 18 Feb 01 - 09:18 AM Driving around Wales last summer, I picked up a book on the Mollies (Kenny, Kevin. Making Sense of the Mollie Maguires. New York, Oxford University Press, 1998.)in Hay-on-Wye. It's very interesting, very well researched and complete, and I can recommend it to any and all.
All the best, |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: InOBU Date: 18 Feb 01 - 10:00 AM Hi Dan, after this post last year, I recieved an angry email from the author of the great GREAT song about the Molly McGuires mentioned above by the band of the same name. He made reference eather to Malarchy or McCort and I presumed it was my old pal, now refered to as Frank's brother! I saved the note in a computor which was later hit by lightning, and really wish he would write back, as I would love to do his song, and would not do it without proper acknowlegement. I asked for clarification of his anoyance, as he seems to have written the note in a state of some anger, I believe, presuming I knew more of the story of missuse of his song. If you read this, my hat is off to you, your song is a CLASIC! I hope it will be played for generations to come and attributed to you, so please get back in touch with all of us. Anyone in contact with him, do tell him to write to us. Cheers Larry |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: Jimmy C Date: 18 Feb 01 - 02:31 PM O' Boyle, I remember reading a great book about the Pennyslvania Molly's. I Think it was called " The Day They Shook The Plum Tree" or a title close to that. I don't even know where or how I came to have it. It was one of those books that you couldn't put down once you started to read it. If it still in print it would be worth pursuing, There was a group of friends of mine here in Ontario called " The Molly Maguires" Their only recording contained one song about the coal miners. That is the one mentioned above, with the following chorus " Make Way for the Molly Maguires They're drinkers, they're liars but they're men Make way for the Molly Maguires |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: Liz the Squeak Date: 18 Feb 01 - 05:10 PM Oooh thanks for the histories... makes a whole heap of family history make sense now.... My brother in law has the surname of Guirey. There is only one other indirect family in the world that we know of with this name, and he is the son of the Aga Khan.... Apparently when the family landed at Liverpool from Ireland, they changed their names to something allegedly Anglicised. Now I don't know about you but Guirey isn't particularly more Anglicised than MacGuire, which is what they were before. To find out the negative associations with that name, makes a whole heap more sense.... LTS And it was Sean Connery, it was one of his better films outside of Bond. Well I think so. |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: InOBU Date: 18 Feb 01 - 10:10 PM Hi JimmyC: Nope I meant the other band Molly McQuires... of "When the wind blows wild at night in the breaker's melancholy. If you stand in the dark with your ear to the wind you can hear the Sons of Molly. Down in the dark of the old mine shaft you can smell the smoke and the fire. And the whispers low in the mines below are the ghost of Molly Maguire." fame, it says author unkown in the post, but I am KICKING myself, for the great fellow wrote to me, and as I said, the note got LOST! Life can be cruel! Cheers Larry |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: GUEST,gloria guest Date: 05 Jan 02 - 04:13 PM Hi Rob, Are you still here? I'm replying to a 1999 thread where you said your research paints a picture of the Mollys as Robin Hoods. I'd like your references as all my research makes them look like terrorists and makes no mention of their connections to unionization and the mines. I would like to see some info on the flip side of the coin. Thanks, Gloria Guest |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: GUEST,Gordo Date: 18 Aug 02 - 11:57 PM I would bet that's only legend. I really doubt that McParlan would have sung that song that particular song when trying to infiltrate the Mollies. He never would have wormed his way in being that obvious; give him credit for a little subtlety. GMcK |
Subject: Lyr Add: PAT DOLAN From: masato sakurai Date: 19 Aug 02 - 05:14 AM From: George Korson, Minstrels of the Mine Patch: Songs and Stories of the Anthracite Industry (1938; Folklore Associates, 1964, pp. 255-257; without music). Original spellings retained.
PAT DOLAN
Pat Dolan, it's my Christian name,
CHORUS
Said Mollie to her darlin' sons,
The lot's now cast, the sentence passed,
Those Orangemen, they gathered then,
Those Orangemen, they all stood then,
One night as I lay upon me bed,
Now I'm in America
CHORUS
Other songs in the "Molly Maguires" chapter (pp. 257-268) are:
Jimmy Kerrigan's Confession ("You know I am that squealer they talk so musch about") ~Masato
|
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: Seamus Kennedy Date: 20 Aug 02 - 03:36 AM Chuck Rogers of the Irish Balladeers, Scranton, PA wrote the Sons Of Molly, and you can contact him at The Banshee Pub, 320 Penn Ave., Scranton, PA 570-969-4248. All the best. Seamus |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: ard mhacha Date: 20 Aug 02 - 07:10 AM James McPaland [the name is always spelt as such] came from south Armagh [God forgive him], And Liam`s brother the reason why he infaltrated the Mollies was because he was a Catholic. There is as much chance of a McParland in south Armagh being a Protestant as Ian Paisley being Pope. Ard Mhacha. |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: Big Mick Date: 20 Aug 02 - 11:48 AM Thanks, Ard. I was going to point out that with that name in South County Armagh, it was highly unlikely he was a Protestant. I am dying to get a recording of that song that Len Wallace transcribed above, The Sons of Molly. In fact, I would be very grateful if anyone could provide recordings for any of these songs. All the best, Mick |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: ard mhacha Date: 20 Aug 02 - 02:17 PM Hope you get a response Mick, I do remember The Wolfe Tones or The Dubliners singing a song about the Mollies, Ard Mhacha. |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: Big Mick Date: 20 Aug 02 - 02:55 PM OK, I found a recording by Blackthorn (Philadelphia group)by doing a Google search on the song name. They had a soundclip of it that gave me enough to get the arrangement. I enjoyed the soundclip and think I will purchase the CD. Later I will post the chords or a midi Mick |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: Seamus Kennedy Date: 20 Aug 02 - 03:57 PM Mick, Morning Star CD on the way with the Sons of Molly. Great arrangement. If you record it, please credit Chuck Rogers. See you in a couple of weeks. Seamus |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: GUEST,Patrick Date: 03 Sep 02 - 08:23 PM I've been trying to figure out the chords for The Irish Rovers - Lament for the Molly Maguires. I feel like my ear is missing something. Is there anything else in there besides Eb Ab Bb, or is it all just a variation on those three? Any help would be appreciated. |
Subject: RE: Molly Maguires: Songs about? From: GUEST,Nick Date: 04 Sep 02 - 04:23 PM Seamus, what's the tune of the Sons of the Molly Maguires? Tom Dahill (don't know if you know him) used to sing that song at my request, but I can't for the life of me remember the tune. Nick |
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