BS: American captain rescued from pirates

Subject: RE: BS: American captain rescued from pirates
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 08:53 AM

"Maybe that's where they have their 200 hostages ... ?"


             meself - Yes, I heard on the news last night that they do hold the hostages on the mother ships, so sinking them is not really an option.

Subject: RE: BS: American captain rescued from pirates
From: Big Mick
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 09:15 AM

Are the "shoot first, ask questions later" crowd giving any thought to the fate of the 200 to 300 hostages once you back this group of thugs into a corner by blasting them to the skies? When you leave no options, there will be sad families around the globe.

Not that I am advocating much in the way of negotiations, but this is not as simplistic as you make it, at least not until we get the innocents out of there. In order to end the problem, first a coalition must be built among the nations that are affected. And I am not talking about one of these coalitions where countries say they are with us, but not willing to commit troops and arms. There must be a committment to act in concert. Then an Entebbe style raid, with first rate intel, planning, and execution, understanding that there will be casualties among troops and hostages. Once they have no hostages, then and only then, can we elevate the conflict at sea. And at that point there should be a clear message. Commit an act of piracy and you will be destroyed.

The real long term solution lies in encouraging the establishment of a stable government in Somalia. And that is a years long process which, again, must be supported, really supported, by all nations. The USA cannot act unilaterally. If the other nations won't support that, then our obigation is to protect our own shipping and leave others to protect theirs.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: American captain rescued from pirates
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Apr 09 - 04:55 PM

So far France, India, and the US have taken some action. But you're right, Mick, anything anybody does now will not do much to help the hostages they already have.

          I suspect they realize they're doomed if they turn the hostages lose, so it's kind of a stalemate.

Subject: RE: BS: American captain rescued from pirates
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 01:45 AM

I have always wondered why the term HIJACKERS has been carefully avoided by goverment and media when talking about piracy.




\Cool coincidence with thye name Bainbridge.

Subject: RE: BS: American captain rescued from pirates
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 02:10 AM

Exactly, thats why non lethal weapons such as the microwave cannon etc. make a sensible deterent. Not only that, there is no proof what stopped them.

The Pirates have made between 60 to 100 million dollars so far.
There are certainly pirate kingpins. Getting the kingpins to fight each other is certainly an easy thing to do.

Getting back hostages is almost never easy.

Subject: RE: BS: American captain rescued from pirates
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 02:34 AM

'.....The Pirates have made between 60 to 100 million dollars so far...'

Maybe, if they had a lobbyist, on Obama's cabinet, they could triple that!....at least!!!

Subject: RE: BS: American captain rescued from pirates
From: Teribus
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 11:33 AM

Taking a look at the areas where attacks have occurred there would appear to be some misconception about how these pirates operate. Immediately after the attack on the Maersk Alabama another US aid ship was attacked unsuccessfully, and three other vessels were attacked successfully one bulk carrier and two Egyptian fishing vessels. Of those three vessels taken the Bulk Carrier will be ransomed and the fishing vessels will become replacement "mother-ships". No better disguise on the worlds oceans than a fishing vessel. While nearly all other vessels are in obvious transit from point A to point B, fishing vessels can loiter for extended periods in an area without arousing suspicion, the pirate "mother-ship" can hide amongst the fishing "fleet" unnoticed. Then as fuel and provisions run out the pirates take over another "mother-ship" from amongst its neighbours.

The only hostages onboard the "mother-ship" will be the crew of that vessel, the skiffs having successfully attacked and taken over their target vessel need the crew of that target vessel onboard to operate the ship and keep it running. There have been no instances of a ship being ransomed separately from its crew, so the crews are not on the "mother-ships".

Q-Ships were never really all that effective; your best bet would be to send one down there that would tempt the pirates to take it as a "mother-ship". However it has no deterrent value and relies purely on luck, you can hardly cruise around with a big neon sign with an arrow flashing "attack me" on it.

Bubblyrat's idea is a good one with regard to aerial surveillance coupled with a rapid strike capability. This capability could be provided by UAV's. The convoy idea works only in one direction as you have a natural assembly point at the eastern end of the Suez Canal. After they have passed the Horn of Africa the whole thing falls apart as the vessels disperse – take a look at the incident plots. Convoys were effective because all the vessels in the convoy were sailing from one point of departure to a common destination, that is not the case here for east bound traffic.

To eradicate the problem you must hit their bases onshore.

Subject: RE: BS: American captain rescued from pirates
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 12:01 PM

Good post, Teribus!

Subject: RE: BS: American captain rescued from pirates
From: meself
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 01:05 PM

'The only hostages onboard the "mother-ship" will be the crew of that vessel, the skiffs having successfully attacked and taken over their target vessel need the crew of that target vessel onboard to operate the ship and keep it running. There have been no instances of a ship being ransomed separately from its crew, so the crews are not on the "mother-ships".'

Did I miss something here? Aren't you saying in the first sentence that the original crew IS indeed on the 'mother ship', and in the second that they are not?

Subject: RE: BS: American captain rescued from pirates
From: meself
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 01:07 PM

Oh - okay, I think I get it: the original crew IS on the mother ship, but no other hostages have been added ...

Subject: RE: BS: American captain rescued from pirates
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 03:40 PM

"I have always wondered why the term HIJACKERS has been carefully avoided by goverment[sic] and media when talking about piracy."

I would think that the terms piracy and pirate (especially in this maritime context) are specific to the crimes currently being perpetrated by the criminals in question. Aaargh!!

Subject: RE: BS: American captain rescued from pirates
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 06:23 PM

"
I don't see why they don't simpy sink the mother ship,.."

remember, no matter who is on it, the mother ship is a stolen ship....owned by someone. The pirates did not start with their own fleet.

(I'm sure glad some of the clever folks posting suggestions here aren't making the decisions in this matter)

Subject: RE: BS: American captain rescued from pirates
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 08:29 PM

If an officer on the bridge knew how to use a rifle, with a searchlight backing him up, how close would an overmanned skiff get?

Subject: RE: BS: American captain rescued from pirates
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 08:31 PM

Ye-a-a-a-h, ..What if Little Hawk is on one of them...using Chongo's ID, as not to be detected by one of the pirates, on a salted out laptop???..Should we sink him..or not?

Subject: RE: BS: American captain rescued from pirates
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 05:42 AM

Another huge difference between US and European methods.
US is bringing a Somali pirate for trial in US.
If we did that he would have to be granted leave to remain in Britain because returning anyone to Somalia breaches their human rights!

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For later discussion, please see threads crosslinked above.
-Joe Offer-