Where Have All The Americans gone?

Subject: RE: Where Have All The Americans gone?
From: kendall
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 08:40 AM

I've done enough traveling in the past 4 or 5 years so I hardly notice the nationality of the poster. I'm interested in most of the posts I see here.

The part about this being a big country is a good one. Last April I did a show with Utah Phillips in Grass Valley California, and Amos drove up from Southern California to see us. I don't know how far he drove, but it was a long old sonk.

Subject: RE: Where Have All The Americans gone?
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 09:09 AM

And here's an even more immense thought:

Canada's even bigger than the US.

Subject: RE: Where Have All The Americans gone?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 10:00 AM

"He stood on the corner with a fag in his mouth..."

Isn't language wonderful. If he smokes it down, by the same token he'd be left with a " butt" in his mouth.

Doesn't that conjure up a wonderful image?

Subject: RE: Where Have All The Americans gone?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 10:08 AM

Dick, I did not notice your earlier post. You had mentioned publicity being a factor with our low turnout for Guy Davis. Yes, I am sure that was part of the problem. We have been doing publicty basically the same way for the past 25 years - sending out press releases to the local papers, running ads, sending out flyers, etc.   We have a website and an e-mail list (we do need to push that more) and frankly we do depend on word of mouth. I also posted a notice about the show here on Mudcat and on my own website - ronolesko.blogspot.com

Perhaps there are other methods of publicity that we have not been looking at, and perhaps that might be an issue with other groups as well. What worked well for us in the past may need some new ideas and fresh blood.   That might also be one of the reasons why U.S. postings on Mudcat have been sparse as well.

Subject: RE: Where Have All The Americans gone?
From: Pete_Standing
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 12:58 PM

Something else to consider, maybe Brits (like me) feel more comfortable in Mudcat than any of the other forums hosted in the UK.

Although my musical focus is mainly on British trad and the scene in the UK, I hope my sights aren't so blinkered that I can't appreciate stuff from elsewhere.

I've been interested in the concept of house concerts as they happen in the US. They are beginning to happen in the UK too and I can see the value in them.

As an amateur musician, it is also interesting to discuss things, especially aspects of playing, technique and equipment on a wider basis than purely with folk from the UK.

Mudcat is unique in that it seems a natural place for people around the world to talk about roots based music. The more the merrier IMHO but I hope you guys from the US don't retreat or feel as though you are being pushed out.

Subject: RE: Where Have All The Americans gone?
From: Steve-o
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 06:04 PM

Ron O: Please put me at the start of a list of "folkies" who ARE NOT likely to be listening to the current crop of singer-songwriters! The old stuff does not wear out, no matter how many times you play and sing it or listen to it. Navel-gazing, angst-ridden, open-tuned strummers get worn out really fast.

Subject: RE: Where Have All The Americans gone?
From: wilco
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 06:29 PM

I'm in Chattanooga, Tennessee, in the south-eastern USA. I'm at "ground zero" for appalachian music, two hours from Nashville (Country Music), and five hours from Memphis (blues), etc.
    I run an acoustic music store, and I am pretty aware of music related events.
    There are at least fifty festivals this weekend, within an hour's drive.
    The mudcat is Brit-centric, and many of American traditionsl music genres don't quite fit.

Wilco48

Subject: RE: Where Have All The Americans gone?
From: Big Mick
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 06:34 PM

It's only brit centric because they participate.

Subject: RE: Where Have All The Americans gone?
From: Tootler
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 07:34 PM

A gut feeling and I have no hard statistics to bear it out, but the impression I get is;

Americans posting here are more likely to be professional or semi-professional performers.

A larger proportion of the Brits are amateur musicians. Many of the threads on venues in the UK are for sessions or folk clubs where people get together simply to play the music and sing the songs they love with friends and other like minded people.

This is not to say there aren't announcements for professionals performing from the UK, but we seem to see less of the announcements from the amateurs in the US for their events. I'm sure they are there.

Please! let's hear from you.

I'm in the UK, BTW and one thing I noticed when I visited the USA for the first time were the distances. You had to set aside whole days to go between places. You can see the difference in the way the we talk about distance. Ask "How far is it?"

USA response "About four hours drive"
UK response "About 200 miles"

Subject: RE: Where Have All The Americans gone?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 07:38 PM

the current crop of singer-songwriters

Thwere are plenty of good songs being written and sung today. Plenty of bad ones too, sung by people who don't recognise when they've written one of them. But slapdash categories like "the current crop of singer-songwriters" which bundle the good and the bad together and throw them out - that's just lazy thinking.

All the good old songs were good new songs one time. (Or sometimes they weren't that good to start with, and got better along the way.)

Subject: RE: Where Have All The Americans gone?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 08:07 PM

Hi Tooler

I'd say that most of the Americans that post here are not professional or full time performers, though there are a fair handful of them. Semi-professional performers & amateur musicians probaly make up the bulk with the amateurs maybe being a bit more represented than the semi-pros.

It depends on what you call amateurs & semi pros though. Semi pros, working most weekends or a lot of week nights but still holding down a full time job & having a good few CD's or are they only a once in a while performer doing maybe a few festivals a year along with a few concerts & maybe 1 or 2 CD's? Would you consider that latter an amateur or one who never performed for payment?


Barry

Subject: RE: Where Have All The Americans gone?
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 08:43 PM

Re: the size of the US: when I was in Korea, our "auntie" thought she'd visit us Americans when she visited her cousin in Chicago. We were from California, Arizona and Washington. Her plan was to just jump on a cross-country bus, as she would when travelling from Seoul to Pusan. We could not convince her of the distances involved; she clearly thought we were having fun with her when we explained how many days of travel by bus all of that would entail.

Anyway, as the saying goes, "A Brit thinks a hundred miles is a long way. A Yank thinks a hundred years is a long time."

Subject: RE: Where Have All The Americans gone?
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 10:52 PM

I really can't even consider myself an amateur musician, unless you count playing alone as amateur. I play for myself (and my wife, who endures it). I play because I enjoy it, a reason sufficient in itself. I am a professional librarian, and I'm not going to give up my day job!

There are good songs being written. It's just that, like every other time in history, they have wait until the dross washes away.

Subject: RE: Where Have All The Americans gone?
From: Bert
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 11:11 PM

I just looked at Ron Olesko's site. It's kinda scary how many of the same things I like. But Ron, I clicked on "Full Size" on your picture, and you know you must be a pretty small guy.

Big Mick has the answer though, it's 'cos they participate.

Steve-0 is just a little harsh in his condemnation of singer/songwriters. But I'll forgive him this time because I have been to some songwriter meetings that he must have been to.

Subject: RE: Where Have All The Americans gone?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 14 Oct 06 - 08:07 AM

One thing which I never understand about Mudcat is that when there are questions on Old Time American or clawhammer banjo it is often as not Banjo Ray or myself trying to answer, and both of us are Brits.
There have been a number of threads started by Patrick Costello (U.S.) offering online resources, podcasts, Banjo and guitar classes (Online Video) which have scarcely been commented on.
I sometimes wonder why the Americans do not seem interested on stuff from your own side of the pond. I certainly am interested to find out about what makes you tick (Musically - I get bored with all the politics threads in BS).
Quack!
Geoff.

Subject: RE: Where Have All The Americans gone?
From: GUEST,Patrick Costello
Date: 14 Oct 06 - 08:53 AM

> There have been a number of threads started by Patrick Costello

Yeah, but they were just posts pointing to a free workshop. If there ever had been a full-blown thread I probably would have ignored it because, to be totally honest, I'm not really into talking about what I'm doing. The material is there and you can use it or not. I don't care either way because we're having a hard time handling the traffic we already have.

Hell, I just had to take the new Daily Frail series offline this morning until I can add some more bandwidth to our account.

The one thing I am seeing across the board when it comes to web forums is that things are boiling own to a collection of private clubs. "Normal" people stop by, see that the forum in question is a private club and move on.

The Internet is a great place to gather and distribute information, but it sucks ass as a tool for bringing people together.

Turn off your computer, go outside and make some music. The real world is a lot more interesting than the Internet.

-Patrick

Subject: RE: Where Have All The Americans gone?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Oct 06 - 09:58 AM

Steve-O, you can put yourself on whatever list you like - it is all a matter of choice. It doesn't matter what list any of us are on.

I am not a "fan" of the navel-gazing songs either, but the problem is you create a stereotype when you say that and end up dismissing some great songs - songs that have the potential to stand up with all those great songs that you feel comfortable with. There are some amazing writers among us and we are only cheating ourselves. As we get older, we tend to stick with the music that we "grew up" with and becomes comfort food for the soul. Hearing an old ballad might bring us back to happier times.

It is really like anything in the arts. Every generation will wrap their arms around a style and it becomes hard to replace. As individuals I would also hope that we find something to hold onto. I have a friend who is a huge fan of ragtime. Another Jersey boy loves bluegrass music and you would think he grew up in the South instead of Bayonne. What about all those white college students that adopted the blues of African-Americans during the folk revival?   

It all comes down to an individual finding something that appeals and speaks to them.   Hopefully that does not require the person to methodically tear down other styles that are out there. One mans ceiling is another mans floor to quote a great song.

Subject: RE: Where Have All The Americans gone?
From: Janie
Date: 14 Oct 06 - 12:15 PM

Barry, while it is true there are a lot of 'amateurs' who post here from the US, many of them, you included, are definitely performers with some expertise in either the lore of the genre you are involved in, and also with some musical 'technique.' I don't think there are as many opportunities for many of us in the USA who are strictly 'back porch' singers or instrumentalists to congregate in public domains like pubs or folk clubs. We don't have the tradition. And so there is not as much to post about. I tend to agree with Tootler's remarks on how this may effect the number of music threads posted by USA'ers.

Geoff, Your point is well taken. I notice there are not many of us who tend to respond to threads about banjo or 'stringband' or jugband music. My sister is a fiddler. She is a bit of a purist when it comes to the style of fiddling she does (old-time Appalachian, especially West Virginia style fiddling.) Although she likes lots of different music, she limits how much other kinds of fiddle she listens to, because she says it unconsciously influences her own fiddling. This really isn't a bluegrass site, and other stringband musicians tend to be pretty narrowly focused. Also, this is much more of a song site than a tune site, and a lot of fiddle and banjo music are 'tunes' with any lyrics or singing very secondary.

So, there is a large contingent of folk musicians in the USA who are not much drawn to this site.

Janie

Subject: RE: Where Have All The Americans gone?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Oct 06 - 12:35 PM

I'm definitely an amateur. Unless you count being paid to stop singing! An amateur is someone who never gets paid.

One thing I have noticed over here is that most of the Americans (and Canadians) I see turn up and do a song or tune or two (which is not a huge number, I admit) are technically better than most of the similar Brits. There are some Brit amateurs who are shit hot (Jeff, for one), but it isn't really all that many round here. Mind you there is one guy with a pair, yes, I said a pair of Zemaitus acoustics, and never mind what he does I just listen to the guitar! There are some semi-pros who are OK and some who are good.

But of the pure amateurs, the non-locals seem to be technically better. This may of course be because they who are truly hopeless do not travel to play.

How about that? I said something nice about the Americans! Do you all feel welcome on your own site now?

Subject: RE: Where Have All The Americans gone?
From: Betsy
Date: 14 Oct 06 - 08:23 PM

Hi Jerry , are you happy that everyone is talking to each other ??

Cheers
Betsy