BS: The Republican Default Crises

Subject: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 11:17 PM

There are about 300 Congressmen who are so impressed that they have actually flustered the usually implacable Obama, that they think they smell blood in the water.   Boehner could have cracked some skulls but he is afraid he will be replaced if he doesn't play Cantors game of having an adult conversation and wathen walk out.

There are no polls that favor the Republican position in this battle. It seems many the Tea Party is OK with blowing up the economy to harm Obama. What they don;t know is that the repurcussion will last 12 to 20 years.

The Republicans are defending the oil loopholes and tax loopholes for the wealthiest 400 men in the country to the point that even the rich are bemoaning the monster thier think tanks invented to advance a Republican Party that was in tattters after the economic crash.



The Republican plans go beyond defending loopholes for billionaires, it would cap spending so the USA could not respond to disasters. There would not even be money for low interest loans to victims.
We could not extend Unemployment insurance and most important...

The cuts would cost jobs without revenue offsets.


Econ 101 - More money in the system = more spending and a better economy.

Less money in the system = less spending and a worse economy.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 11:36 PM

The problem is no knows how much the US credit rating will drop if a default occurs. No one knows how far a world economy would sink as the world standard dollar sinks. No one knows how high credit card fees and rates will go.


Republicans say there will be no default, Tea Party says a default doesn't matter and there will be no compromise, even after Obama agreed to cut SS MEdicare and mediaid. Republicans say Obama had no plan, but he had 3. Republicans say he is liar. Republicans say he is formenting class warfare and scaring old people.

It really seems that this is the Limbaugh strategy of creating an American failure that will make Obama a failure.



There is one thing I know for sure. If a default happens, even by a small delay, it will be a monumental first.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Stringsinger
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 11:50 AM

Remember that the Tea-o-crats are "hell-bent" on destroying the country and replacing it with their godliness.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 12:01 PM

Taking the American President Barak Obama hostage requires that the entire country and the life of the world economy that use the dollar as a standard are threatened with death, unless we pay the ransom of eliminating Federal Goverment regulatory agencies and its social programs.

Political scientists will look at this moment in time when 87 tea party congressmen and women were able to not merely threaten but destroy such a large country with a heroic history.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 12:49 PM

The point is though, that everybody in the Western World (especially US voters) will remember just who it was suggesting solutions, and who it was sitting tight with their heads up their arses.

Those dumb bastards may just ensure Obama's second term, and I'm certain that isn't their intention.

God help America if it loses its economic clout to China and India.

Payback for the destruction of the Nipponese Co-prosperity Sphere, and won't emerging Asia love that?

What price brain transplants for Republican Congressmen and Senators Mr Obama? Then they might qualify as imbeciles.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 08:06 PM

Default is unconstitutional. (14th Amendment)

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 10:08 PM

(especially US voters) will remember just who it was suggesting solutions, and who it was sitting tight with their heads up their arses.

The average A.D.D.-afflicted U.S. voter will have forgotten long before the 2012 election.

Just wait & see.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 10:32 PM

It's very rare that I disagree with you, Greg, but I think the Repubs, inspite of their unlimited $$$ at election time, won't be able to erase what they have done to our country...

People aren't quite that stupid...

Or should I say, "I hope that people aren't that stupid"...

What I do know is that if the Dems could match the Repubs in $$$ then the Repubs would be swept out of Congress in 2012 but, sadly, the Repubs now, thanks to a Repub packed Supreme Court, will throw everything and the kitchen sink in the 2012 el3ection and will try to Willie Horton the Dems....

If the Repubs win in 2012 then the US will be right about where Germany was in 1936...

Yes, history does repeat itself...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 10:34 PM

Refusing to raise the debs ceiling is like saving money by not paying your bills....not the swiftest approach

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 11:55 PM

I guess it it more like threatening your domestic partner that if they don't cut down on nail polish, you will stop paying the mortgage.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 01:38 AM

So, Donuel, you support Obama's plan for solving the U.S.'s financial problems? If so, what are his plans?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 03:54 AM

What is the current timescale? Am I right that even if a deal can be done it is still too late for it to pass the legislative process in time? If so what is plan B?

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Rumncoke
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 05:22 AM

My little corner of the globe has been watching the US commit financial suicide since the sub prime mortgage disaster came to light.

I can't imagine what it would be like for Americans living with a broken economy and a global financial system which blames the US for the present economic downturn but it seems that there are people who want to find out for themselves no matter what the sensible people advise.

To many people the US appears to be acting like someone ordering a mink coat to keep themselves warm rather than mending the broken windows in their house. It would't be so bad but the heating is still full on.

We see a system where the power is with those with money and they want to keep it that way, and to Hell with the rest of society and the rest of the world.

No wonder the President is going grey at such a rate. He looks like a man who got his dream job on the board only to discover that the safe door is open and the other directors are not answering their phones.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: MarkS
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 09:32 AM

I would be more confident if the Dems finally presented a budget which could be discussed. Obama presented a budget in Jaunuary which was rejected by the Senate 97-0, and Harry Reid has not presented a budget in some 2 1/2 years.

All we are discussing today are "frameworks," and arbitrary numbers which appear to still kick the can down the road. There is just a limit how far down the road we can go with debt ceiling increases and continuing resolutions.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 11:43 AM

""So, Donuel, you support Obama's plan for solving the U.S.'s financial problems? If so, what are his plans?

DougR""

Well there it is!

Bang on time and proving Greg F right. Dougie actually believes that sitting with your head up your arse is a plan.

Seems to me that anything anybody actually does will work better than that Doug.

The Repubs should maybe consider the ostrich. Sticking their heads in the sand would be marginally less stupid, and a whole lot less stinky.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 11:50 AM

Obama has had three plans, first Cantor walked out on, 2 trillion cuts and close loopholes for billionaires.

Second 4 trillion cuts and 800 billion revenue
that Boehber walked out on.

and three the Reed plan that is revenue neutral.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: MarkS
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 01:10 PM

According to a press release just documented on "The Hill", Earl Blumenauer (D) Ore, has stated that nobody on the hill has seen the Reid plan.
Must be another of those "vote for it in order to see what is in it" packages.
Am I the only one who has started to dispare about the state of our legislative process?

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: gnu
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 02:51 PM

Is this a ploy to boost exports and get a little cash going? AND raise interest rates to gouge more coin out of the populace who are in debt or who live on a fixed income? Not that any of that would have any effect on the rich except to put more coin in their pockets.

Or are we looking at another Great Delusion like we had before WW2?

And where is that money that Bernie made off with? They STILL can't find it?

And why is SOMEONE throwing cruise missiles around like Nerf balls if they can't pay for them?

Is this all just smoke and assholes?

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: DougR
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 05:04 PM

The Republicans in the House of Representatives have passed two bills, and both of them raised the debt limit. The Democrats in the Senate voted on one and shot it down, the other one Harry Reid would not allow to come to a vote.

So how in the world could anyone believe the Republicans are to blame for the current mess? Why won't the Democrats compromise? If they would, there would be no crisis.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: pdq
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 05:14 PM

The claim that "wars" caused the budget problem is not supported by fact.

After the Sept. 11 atrocities, we engaged the enemy in Afghanistan and later in Iraq. We also beefed up security at foreign military bases and embassys.

Total cost of those three items, sometimes called the War on Terrorism, has been slightly under 1.2 trillion, but that is for a period of ten years.

Total Federal spending for that 10 year period was about $32 trillion.

The War on Terrorism therefore represents about 3.8% of Federal spending from late July 2001 to late July 2011.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 05:20 PM

PDQ's claim that "wars" alone caused the budget problem is not supported by fact.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: olddude
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 05:25 PM

It will be a world wide shit storm if they default ... Not just for this country. All oil exports to all countries is US dollar based. It is the world standard of currency much like the Spanish piece of eight was. I suspect we will lose a heck of a lot more than just political fights and parties.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 05:28 PM

What is Obama's Plan??? Unless you a FOXhead then you know that he has proposed $4T deficit reductions over 10 years with $3T in spending cuts and $1T in increased taxes...

I mean, this has been reported in no less that 4000 newspapers accroos the country and one every credible television news station...

If anyone out there says they don't know the plan then they are either...

...a pathological LIAR or...

...got their heads so far up FOX unNews butt that you could light a quarter stick 4 feet away and not hear it...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 05:33 PM

THe Hose Republicans are threatening to renege on paying for the things----the Bush Tax Cuts, Two Wars and the Big Pharm Swindle---that they voted for in the first place.
THe debt ceiling has NOTHING to do with future spending or reduction of same.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 06:26 PM

The Republicans in the House of Representatives have passed two bills, and both of them raised the debt limit.

Yes, Douggie-Boy, but what ELSE did the bills do in addition? Guess you don't want to keep receiving your Social Security or Medicare.

So how in the world could anyone believe the Republicans are to blame for the current mess?

Because the majority of Republicans don't have the guts to tell the minority TeaBagger ignorant lunatics driving the bills ptresented to take a freakin' hike and present a reasonable bill?

Why won't the Democrats compromise?

1. They have. On several issues. Yopur question is better directed at Boner and the TeaBaggers.

2. Because they are aware that the Reagan-Bush-Bush tax cuts CAUSED the situation we are now in & that revenues need to be restored as part of the package to the levels they were before Voodoo Economics screwed tthings up.

Glad to see, Douggie, that you still swallow & regurgitate FOX bullshit as a matter of course.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 07:16 PM

The Republicans have no choice but kiss Tea Party ass and that means, "Kill the fucking government"...

Period...

End of discussion...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Sawzaw
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 07:20 PM

Who or what destroyed Greece's credit? We can learn from examples.

"he has proposed $4T deficit reductions"

Like closing Guantanamo.
Like putting debates on Cspan.
Like putting all bills on the internet for 5 days for public scrutiny.
Like lowering health care costs.
Like keeping unemployment below 9%.

He has proposed a lot of things that did not happen.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Janie
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 07:44 PM

I am absolutely disgusted with the whole lot, though somewhat less disgusted with Obama than the rest. Wasn't really disgusted with him at all until he spent the 1st half of his address Monday night being a political hack, only switching over to statesmanship in the 2nd half of the address. Not skillful.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 11:40 PM

gnu suggested that their could be a less than obvious conspiracy to make someone some big money.

The Gold market could make 25 cents on the dollar , if you sold in time once it settled down. I noticed that the Senate Hearings on the BOnd and Security Rating Agenices weren't asked much about Credit raters collusion to give junk bundled mortgages and derivitives and credit default swaps AAA ratings.   Instead talk turned to thier actually threatening to lower America's rating even if we do pass a debt ceiling. WHo the fuck are they? You can bet with threats like that they hope to have more people currying thier favor with bribes, slush funds, junkets...Whadda bunch of lieing greedy mother fuckers.

If Obama saves the world with an emergency action I can already see FOX types hyperventilating as they cry for impeachment and treason and dictator ad infinitum. Go ahead Impeach him. The Senate will throw it out. The right wing court is gonna reverse the decision to throw the world economy in the toilet??? I don't think so.

Meanwhile every contractor, every administrator and beaureaucrat does not have the slightest idea who or how anyone is going to be paid. I bet the heart attack rates go up in DC this weekend.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 11:42 PM

HEy I GOT IT

Maybe some repubs bought some credit default swaps from AIG, BETTING AGAINST AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


They will make trillions.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 11:47 PM

It might have helped, if president Obama ever ran as much as a lemonade stand. That being said, Bush's unfunded war hasn't helped much either. In any event, the guys who will set the policy(of which Obama has NONE),will be the bankers, multi-national, and globalist..not either party...so, come on, try to get your heads out of the partisan party boxes. These last administrations, are nothing but shills for the decisions that are made, circumnavigating anything remotely resembling the will of the people, for the people, or by the people!
How much more obvious does this have to get, before some of you get the idea to 'hop aboard the clue train'?!?!

Sorry, if that insults your pet party..but it IS the Truth!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 12:01 AM

See More About:
national debt
debt ceiling
Obama
government waste
federal budget process

Congress has tinkered with the debt ceiling, the statutory limit on amount of money the United States government is authorized to borrow to meet its legal obligations, a grand total of 78 times since 1960 - 49 times under Republican presidents and 29 times under Democratic presidents.



In modern history, Ronald Reagan oversaw the largest number of debt ceiling increases, and George W. Bush approved a near doubling of the borrowing cap during his two terms in office.

Here's a look at the debt ceiling under modern U.S. presidents.

1. Debt Ceiling Under Obama

The debt ceiling has been raised on three occasions under President Barack Obama. The debt ceiling was $11.315 trillion when the Democrat was sworn into office in January 2009 and increased by nearly $3 trillion or 26 percent by summer 2011, to $14.294 trillion.

See also: Did Obama Double the National Debt?

Under Obama the debt ceiling increased:

by $789 billion to $12.104 trillion in February 2009, Obama's first year in office, under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act;
by $290 billion to $12.394 trillion ten months later, in December 2009;
and by $1.9 trillion to $14.294 trillion two months later, in February 2010.

2. Debt Ceiling Under Bush
The White House
The debt ceiling was raised on seven occasions during President George W. Bush's two terms in office, from $5.95 trillion in 2001 to nearly double that, $11.315 trillion, in 2009 - an increase of $5.365 trillion or 90 percent.

Under Bush the debt ceiling increased:

by $450 billion to $6.4 trillion in June 2002;
by $984 billion to $7.384 trillion 11 months later, in May 2003;
by $800 billion to $8.184 trillion 18 months later, in November 2004;
by $781 billion to $8.965 trillion 16 months later, in March 2006;
by $850 billion to $9.815 trillion 18 months later, in September 2007;
by $800 billion to $10.615 trillion 10 months later, in July 2008;
and by $700 billion to $11.315 trillion three months later, in October 2008.

3. Debt Ceiling Under Clinton

The debt ceiling was raised on four occasions during President Bill Clinton's two terms, from $4.145 trillion when he took office in 1993 to $5.95 trillion when he left the White House in 2001 - an increase of $1.805 trillion or 44 percent.

See also: National Debt Versus Federal Deficit

Under Clinton the debt ceiling increased:

by $225 billion to $4.37 trillion in April 1993;
by $530 billion to $4.9 trillion four months later, in August 1993;
by $600 billion to $5.5 trillion two years and seven months later, in March 1996;
and by $450 billion to $5.95 trillion 17 months later, in August 1997.

4. Debt Ceiling Under Bush

The debt ceiling was raised on four occasions during President George H.W. Bush's one term, from $2.8 trillion when he took office in 1989 to $4.145 trillion when he left the White House in 1993 - an increase of $1.345 trillion or 48 percent.

Under Bush the debt ceiling increased:

by $70 billion to $2.87 trillion in August 1989;
by $252.7 billion to $3.1227 trillion three months later, in November 1989;
by $107.3 billion to $3.23 trillion 11 months later, in October 1990;
and by $915 billion to $4.145 trillion one month later, in November 1990.

5. Debt Ceiling Under Reagan
Hulton Archive
The debt ceiling was raised on 17 occasions under President Ronald Reagan, nearly tripling from $935.1 billion to $2.8 trillion.

Under Reagan the debt ceiling was raised to:

$985 billion in February 1981;
$999.8 billion in September 1981;
$1.0798 trillion September 1981;
$1.1431 trillion in June 1982;
$1.2902 trillion in September 1982;
$1.389 trillion in May 1993;
$1.49 trillion in November 1983;
$1.52 trillion in May 1984;
$1.573 trillion in July 1984;
$1.8238 trillion in October 1984;
$1.9038 trillion in November 1985;
$2.0787 trillion in December 1985;
$2.111 trillion in August 1986;
$2.3 trillion in October 1986;
$2.32 trillion in July 1987;
$2.352 trillion in August 1987;
and $2.8 trillion in September 1987

Just in case 'Facts' interest anyone out there!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 07:29 AM

Just one problem with the numbers, GfinS...

The December, '09 deficit wa still Bush's last budget... Not Obama's...

That's the part that the right refuses to admit... Bush left yet another exploding deficit with his last budget which was in place before Obama was sworn in...

Reality is that Obama actually cut the annual deficit by $100B from Bush's last one of $1.4T to $1.3T...

But I reckon we don't need to stenkin' facts cluttering up the discussion...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 07:44 AM

Under Reagan it was raised 18 times.

Today;
THE YEN SURGES and the dollar falls.

Who is seriously hurt by this already?
Japan.

Today more dollars will be chasing the Yen.
In DC the symbolic kabuki performances continue.


The real deadline was in May yet tea types question the Aug 2 validity as a dealine.


Senator McCain came back to life yesterday and said on the floor of the Senate that the 6th month old Republican House members are BIZZARO ! He went futher to say that, "these new members are so misinformed that they believe that when Sen Reid TABLED the house bill which included changing the COnstitution of the United States of America, that tea partiers believe that means they can now ammend the bill and get it passed. That is unfair, that is not true, that is not reality"

One really dumb house repub said "I will never vote to raise the debt ceiling, I, uh, want to lower it"




I was thinking that House leader Boehner should invite the tea party members to a dinner at the Four Seasons, sneak out the back door and have a waiting quorum of the house to pass the usual one page debt ceiling increase bill and give it to the Senate and signed by Obama in 15 minutes, enough time to get back to the dinner and have dessert with the Tea Party Congressmen.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 07:45 AM

As it happened, from the ages of 7 to 13 young Barry Obama was a lemon stand organizer. He scouted locations, gave speeches about sugar ratio and talked to customers and supplies alike generally rising the quality and profitability of the Oahu lemonade experience. Then Barry went on to middle school and started organizing the paper carriers.

Then the big bottlers came in with their "tea" and had a party. Police were bought off. Cut rate Arnold Palmer was everywhere and The Hard stuff (Mike's Hard Lemonade) was showing up in unsavory places. A corporate sponsored crackdown was instituted when the GOP rigged the health board elections. They all drank the Koolaid because of the high fructose corn syrup subsidies. Artificially enhanced lemon like citric acid flavoring became king. The consequences are only now becoming apparent in the high incidence of mouth cooties.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 08:56 AM

Hey Douiggie! Check it out-

Editorial - New York Times
A Denial of Reality
Published: July 26, 2011

How can so many Republican lawmakers justify pushing their country toward catastrophic default just to score ideological points? The answer can be found in their statements and writings: They are constructing an alternative reality far different from that of most Americans.

The Treasury Department, which keeps the government bankbook, set the Aug. 2 deadline, but they say it cannot be trusted because it is an arm of the Obama administration. Representative Joe Walsh, a freshman from Illinois, recorded an instantly notorious video in which he accused President Obama of "lying" about the dangers of default. "There's plenty of money to pay off our debt and cover all of our Social Security obligations," he said, without saying where all these billions might be hidden.

Representative Michele Bachmann, the Tea Partier running for president, went even further, saying there would be no default at all because the government would always find a way to pay the interest on its debt. Her level of disbelief in any statement made by the White House is so complete that she disregarded the possibility that the global financial system could impose its own devastating downgrade on the government's obligations.

Mrs. Bachmann's denial of economic reality puts her at the far-right end of the House, alongside eight other Republicans who voted against the "Cut, Cap and Balance Act" last week because it was too liberal.....

Complete article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/27/opinion/27wed2.html?src=rechp

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: pdq
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 11:24 AM

"...alongside eight other Republicans who voted against the "Cut, Cap and Balance Act" last week because it was too liberal..." ~ New York Slimes

So why doesn't the Senate just pass the Cap, Cut and Balance Act and be done with it?

The bill needs just four more votes from Democrats to pass.

Answer: Democrats like Obama, Shumer and Reid have said that anything proposed by a Republican is "dead on arrival".

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 11:45 AM

The goal behind all the right wing members of Congress is to "Starve the Beast". That is the old anarchist strategy of killing the Federal Government by monetary starvation. No money = no agencies like EPA, Education, Energy, FDA, SEC, FEMA, SS and all the rest.

No agencies - no enforcemnt of laws, regulations and safeguards.

Everyone with a bilion dollars could do as they please with impunity, as they essentially have been doing for 12 years, but on meth and steroids.

The cut cap and balance for example when compared to the Ryan plan, goes 10 times farther. The Federal Government would not be able to respond to a catastrophe unless it was put into the budget prior to the diasaster.



!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HISTORIC BREAKING NEWS. It seems that Harry S Truman was the first President to unilaterally push through a debt Ceiling Bill!
So it seems there is a precedence for a President to intervene.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 11:49 AM

The "Cap, Cut and Balance Act" would put 50% of retired folks into poverty... Right now, we have 50% of our seniors living with less than $22,000 a year... What the Repubs bill would do is ***force*** draconian cuts in Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security...

If, however, the Repubs would agree to allow the tax rates that were in place 30 years ago when the middle class's wages stagnated and close the tax loopholes that the corporations have put in place during that time frame then maybe we would have a basis for a discussion but to expect the working class, the poor and the elderly to absorb 100% of the3 sacrifice and the wealthy and corporations to continue munching down their free lunch is not only immoral but a formula for armed revolution...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 12:20 PM

The 'greater good', 'social justice' and the 'social contract' are now spoken of in terms of a disease, an evil and sinister plot.

Much of this attitude is shaped directly from 20 years of right wing radio and FOX.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: GUEST,Songbob
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 01:46 PM

All Congressmen and Senators take an oath of office, to "preserve, protect, and defend" the Constitution of the United States.

The Constitution, in its 14th Amendment, says that the public debt of the United States cannot be denied.

So voting to default -- failing to raise the debt ceiling -- is by definition UnConstitutional. It follows then that each and every Congressman that votes to send the country into default is in violation of his/her oath of office and should be removed forthwith.

Bob

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 01:47 PM

Good one Bob. But who would be left to preside over the mass impeachment?

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: GUEST,Songbob
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 01:58 PM

And this whole fooferaw is a smokescreen anyway. If the Republican'ts want to cut spending, let 'em pass a budget that does so. Oh, yeah... they did pass the Ryan budget, which voucherized Medicare and slashed a lot of other expenditures, then sent it off to the Senate to die. As they knew it would.

It was a safe vote -- vote your ideology, then let it wander off into limbo, while you get back to the important things, like defunding Planned Parenthood, accompanied by statements "not intended to be factual".

Republican'ts are really good at running for office, but shitty at running an office. Politics, yes; governing, not so much. And the old saw about polics being "the art of the possible" goes out the window in the highly-charged atmosphere these cretins seem to like. The Republican't approach is closer to a fringe party in Italy, or some other parliamentary system, where narrow special interests get served by a narrow, special-interest party.

I don't want the US to turn into Italy, thank you very much. Big-tent parties where you can have wide variance of opinion suits me much better than what they seem to be promoting -- ideological purity, "get your ass in line" discipline, talking point recitation in place of serious discussion (you get a lot of that here, from a few posters), and narrow, narrow views on what the country needs.

We're going into a period of austerity when the economy needs a shot in the arm. God help us.

Bob

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 02:30 PM

The Republicans have no mandate or public support for the Ryan Budget, or for the cut and cap thing. The Democrats have tried to compromise. The Republicans have refused all compromise. The Democrats cannot be blackmailed into denying the will of the people. The economy will lose big time. The argument that the Tea Party is putting forth, that we have to destroy the economy to save it will not prevail. The Republicans will lose this battle, now and in 2012.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: pdq
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 02:43 PM

CNN polls shows Cap, Cut and Balance has the support of 67% of the American people.

Obama and the DNC see predictions that the Dems will lose another 60+ House seats and probably lose the Senate in 2012.

Obama is also toast unless he can shut down the US government and blame the Republicans.

It is not working as well as it did when Clinton did it and successfully blamed Gingrich.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 02:52 PM

CNN polls shows Cap, Cut and Balance has the support of 67% of the American people.

No. That is a lie, capping cutting and balancing has the support of the American people. Not the specific Cap, Cut and Balance bill.

I support capping cutting and balancing. But it is economic suicide to put it into law. Do you want the whole country to be run like California? The Federal government and the markets need the flexibility to deal with a cyclical economy.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 03:42 PM

So why doesn't the Senate just pass the Cap, Cut and Balance Act and be done with it?

Perhaps because its a piece of shit, PeeDee?

The "Cap, Cut and Balance Act" would put 50% of retired folks into poverty...

C'mon, Bobert - PeeDee doesn't give two shits about that.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: gnu
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 03:53 PM

"THe Hose Republicans..."

Hahahahahaaa! Bunch a hosers eh? Good typo/F-slip!

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Sawzaw
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 12:53 AM

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi saw her wealth rise considerably last year, from just more than $20 million to $35.2 million establishing Pelosi's place as one of the wealthiest lawmakers in the country.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 07:55 AM

Then we ought to be taxing her eh?