BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans

Subject: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 May 04 - 10:21 PM

A lady called today and complimented the woman who tells stories to the very young -- average age of 2 years. She liked our storyteller's energy and enthusiasm, as did her granddaughter.

However, she objected to the storyteller lighting a candle and reciting a verse at the beginning of the storytime, and reciting a verse when she extinguished it at the end.

She "didn't want [her] granddaughter exposed to witchcraft." She was certain that "the young lady" wasn't "doing a spell" but it was still "witchcraft."

I checked. Seems like this has been going on for some five years, and the "spell" that's recited is a Mother Goose Rhyme. Lighting the candle tells the young 'uns that story time has started, and extinguishing it lets them know that it's over.

There is no Circle, nothing is done Skyclad (in the public library??), there is nothing which I can associate with Wicca OR Paganism.

Any Wiccans or Pagans see any?

(NOTE: this lady lives in a heavily Mormon area of town, an EXTREMELY conservative area, where far too much money resides in houses that are not only too costly and ostentatious, but downright ugly and cheaply built as well. Even so, I think she means well.)

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Blackcatter
Date: 11 May 04 - 10:29 PM

I have been Wiccan (and therefore Pagan for 13 years, now. What she is doing, if she's reciting something like a mother goose rhyme, has nothing to do with Pagan ritual or spellwork. Ans basically, there would be little reason to do anything Pagan oriented in such a location.

Hope that helps.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 May 04 - 10:29 PM

And let me add that the staff is having a very hearty laugh! Unfortunately, she's serious.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Blackcatter
Date: 11 May 04 - 10:36 PM

Mormons scare the crap out of me, and I'm surrounded by Southern Baptists.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Two_bears
Date: 11 May 04 - 10:37 PM

She "didn't want [her] granddaughter exposed to witchcraft." She was certain that "the young lady" wasn't "doing a spell" but it was still "witchcraft."
-----

Me thinks the lady is paranoid about witchcraft.

I see nothing wrong with that. I have studied a wide variety of pagan faiths over the last 6 years. I practised Ceremonial Magick about 30 years ago.

Now for safety sake; I would personally recommend against using the candle because some children become very excited, and I would hate for a child to knock over the candle and burn them with the flame, or scald them with the melted wax.

Two Bears

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Two_bears
Date: 11 May 04 - 11:38 PM

Mormons scare the crap out of me, and I'm surrounded by Southern Baptists
-----

You should reverse that statement. I was raised by Southern Baptist fanatic guardians.

I still have the knots and scars on my body put there by my guardians because I freaked them out with psychic abilities. Every time I slipped up and told them who was calling before they could answer; they labeled it Satanic and did their darndest to beat Satan out of me.

I have a knot on my left collar bone 1/2 the sixe of a chicken egg where they broke a broom handle over it. I have a knot on my right shin where I was beaten with an iron poker, and I have 50-75 scars all over both arms where I was burned with lit cigarettes as punishment.

Because of my early training in taoist meditation, and Qigong; I was able to turn my life around completely, and forgive my guardians for what they did because of fear.

Today; I am an energy healer, and have received the title maser in 8 different disciplines.

Two Bears

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Mooh
Date: 11 May 04 - 11:53 PM

Gee, we light candles at the beginning of church and snuff them at the end. Good old Anglican Church eh! No spells, just bible stories, prayer, communion, and fellowship. Often we have special candles, like during advent, which are lit accompanied by a prayer.

You don't suppose...LOL!

Oh, brother.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 11 May 04 - 11:58 PM

There are many...more righteous....more holy.....more spiritual women who are willing, capable, competent to perform "the rites" that have been observed.

If....you desire Wixan....bring in a "real" Wix.

If you desire the inculcation of a cult from a truly demonic sect.....to tell the children stories.... find a local Morman.

If you are a troll desiring to stir up the MC animules....follow the MC links to the peculiar MC-links of paganism, healing-circles, critters, and mormanism.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: LadyJean
Date: 11 May 04 - 11:59 PM

We had candles all over the place at our Easter vigil. No mother goose rhymes, though.
Now lots of innocous things are alleged to have pagan roots; morris dances, Christmas trees, Easter eggs, the English country dance Gathering Peas. I'm sure somebody somewhere has given pagan meaning to every rhyme in Mother Goose's melodies. But I'm betting the Mormon grandma doesn't know that. Some people have witchcraft on the brain! Which does kind of scare me.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Mudlark
Date: 12 May 04 - 12:14 AM

Fundamentalists, religious fanatics, paranoids of all stripes scare the daylights out of me. The combination of self-righteousness and fearful insecurity is a brutal mix, as whitness Two Bear's traumatic upbringing.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Cluin
Date: 12 May 04 - 12:22 AM

It's funny and sad at the same time, Rapaire. From ignorance comes fear which further begets falsehood, prejudice, and hate. But you knew that.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Cluin
Date: 12 May 04 - 12:28 AM

It's all the more poignant in that it comes from somebody's granny.

Grannies scare me.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: DonMeixner
Date: 12 May 04 - 12:32 AM

Repaire,

I have always been afraid of people who are afraid of the magic that just seems to float around us every day. That some one can be afraid of a little verse and a single candle must give them an awful life. Even I have found comfort in a candle and verse now and then on a Sunday. And that I find comfort there must truly prove the good of magic.

Don

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: dianavan
Date: 12 May 04 - 01:46 AM

If your school is anything like mine, regardless of whether the administration agrees with Grannie or not, the teacher will be asked to extinguish the candle (a fire hazard) to placate the Grannie. Since you are a pre-school, this may not happen but in public school, we are constantly trying to please everybody, whether they are right or wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 12 May 04 - 04:11 AM

Scandalous!! Candles burning in a public library!!! Blimey - we'd never allow that in the libraries I worked in!!!

As for the other... maybe granny wasn't listening to the verse hard enough, but to placate, maybe the reader could read it from the book, showing the title to all? How about she uses a tambourine jingle to get their attention (works well at my daughters' school) rather than the candle?

Sympathies to you, it's hard to work around peoples prejudices, especially in such a fundimentalist area.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: pussycat
Date: 12 May 04 - 07:11 AM

Yes, obv. the grannie is paranoid.
Doesnt sound like anything remotely like a pagan ritual going on, and quite frankly, the Mother Goose nursery rhymes are not exactly the most appropriate homage to the Gods, Nature, or anything, and esp. in a public library (with Mormans!!)!!

As for Bear - feeling very sad for you and your troubles. Although how we get to being who we are can often envoke painful memories when remembered (and indeed at the time too), it's best to think that at least we can put something back into the world which is what we would wish for, thus makeing the bad become fruitfully good instead.

Sounds like you are certainly makeing the most of this gift (if you can call it that...)

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 12 May 04 - 07:43 AM

geee...

Didn't they do this once (scaremongery stuff about withces) once in Salem.... I reckon you have to keep granny clear of the mathces! Courthouse, and any one called Paris. Agnes. Or Mother Jones...

Blimey... Some people really need to chill out about things. Kids love this sort of thing, and none of them I think are likely to bother about thinking about witch craft.

BTW... When you meditate during yoga, often we used to use a candle to focus on. And as Moo said above, the candle is rife throughout churches... Pagan/christian/and all the other beliefs... they're all similar!

Tell her to lighten up and be quiet!

Ella...

PS... I think the idea sounds great, but really couldn't imagine that happening in any of the uk libraries, (as voiced by liz) You'd have a bucket of fire sand swiftly poured over it, followed by a sush for even the ssisssing noise as the candle went out.

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: GUEST,maryrrf
Date: 12 May 04 - 08:40 AM

This is in line with things like the uproar about Barney being demonic. I had one Baptist tell me that the Smurfs were demonic. Saying a little rhyme sounds like a charm or something and this seems to trigger alarms in some people's brains. I guess the candle just clinches it in their minds. If possible, I wouldn't change the candle lighting/nursery rhyme. It would be the easy thing to do but would be giving in to narrow mindedness and stupidity.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Midchuck
Date: 12 May 04 - 09:01 AM

In all the debate I have been exposed to, about religion and the supernatural, over 62 years, I have come away with only two certainties:

1: A personal God Who is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent is a logical impossibility in a world with as much suffering in it as this one.

2: Smurfs are demonic.

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: pussycat
Date: 12 May 04 - 09:15 AM

I once had a male friend at school who used to have a cuddly toy smurf with a hole in the back that he used to use for masterbation...slightly disturbing!!

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 May 04 - 09:27 AM

I suppose some times and places the granny would be objecting that, what with all these rhymes and candles, it all sounded a bit too Papist...

There's a whole folk tradition of bigotry, which changes over the years, but it fundamentally stays the same.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 May 04 - 09:32 AM

Well, I'm going to check out the lighted candle because it could be a fire or safety hazard. I certainly don't want children hurt, especially in the public library! I've been thinking over alternatives, and a "magic lamp" that goes on and off might work -- a hidden button using a wireless hookup might do it.

Kids dwell (or should) in a magical world. I remember the story hours in the public library back home -- there was a round tower, and the room for story hour had pocket doors (those sliding doors that disappear into the wall). Naturally, that became "The Secret Room" and was a wonderful place to go for an hour. There was also a marionette stage there.

Of course, Granny might not have the worry since one of her neighbors (a city councilman) would shut the library down to save money if he could. She lives in That Sort of neighborhood -- long on money, short on sense and humanity. Sigh.

By the way, we haven't had one bit of trouble with the LDS church. We have both pro- and anti- Mormon materials, but because they're not the screaming sorts but are, rather, well-reasoned we don't have problems. Heck, one of our biggest supporters is the highest-ranking Mormon in town.

Also, the LDS Church has made no ruling reading Harry Potter, Artemis Fowl, Lemony Snickett's books, Captain Underpants, or any of those. In fact, most Mormon parents I know read them to or with their children.

Maybe I'll have some of the Wiccans at the University here drop by and see her. After all, the LDSers send around missionaries.... 8-)

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: GUEST,bonkers
Date: 12 May 04 - 10:08 AM

You could ask the granny if she believes in the constitution of the United States, and then ask her if she would be frightened if the storyteller started off with a Christian prayer. How about a Buddhist chant? Get her to explain to you why paganism should be treated like any other religion. Of course, the whole conversation would have to be hypothetical, since there is nothing inherently religious about lighting a candle or reading nursery rhymes . . .

Does anyone know if the Mormons use candles in their church services?

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Green Man
Date: 12 May 04 - 10:15 AM

Didn't the Master Jesus say let he who is without sin cast the first stone?

I wouldn't force feed my children any relifious cant' particularly the fundamentalist sort that seems rife in the USA. My childern have made their own choices as did I when I was old enough and had read and travelled enough to make my own choice of path.

Just be glad thay don't have ring o' roses for the opening and closing rhymes.

Pagan, no I don't see a connection. Just someone who knows that kids appreciate a complete cycle of action. Start continue finish. If we all finished what we started we would all bbe better off.

Must go and finish my lunch now. ;-)

GM

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Green Man
Date: 12 May 04 - 10:19 AM

Easter Eggs are Pagan, Oestrus the Roman Goddess of fertility had a festival at,, guess when - Easter and her symbols were the Hare and Egg.

Another festival stolen by Christianity.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 12 May 04 - 10:34 AM

Yes, kids do dwell on stories, I remember being read the amazing mrs pepper pot, and all sors of other stories, it was great!

Midchuck does have a point....

that smarmy self promoting purple git (Barney) is the son of satan...

eurchhhhhhhhhh!

Ella

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 May 04 - 10:44 AM

The way to eliminate the fire risk would be to use a floating candle. Looks prettier too.

Or there's the hour-glass or egg-timer system, like some preachers used to use.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Two_bears
Date: 12 May 04 - 11:57 AM

As for Bear - feeling very sad for you and your troubles. Although how we get to being who we are can often envoke painful memories when remembered (and indeed at the time too), it's best to think that at least we can put something back into the world which is what we would wish for, thus makeing the bad become fruitfully good instead
-----

I do not feel sorry about it at all. In hindsight; it was a blessing. in giving me the inner strength I would need later in life.

I only told of my experiences to teach others that we can overcome hellish conditions.

Two Bears

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Two_bears
Date: 12 May 04 - 12:05 PM

Easter Eggs are Pagan, Oestrus the Roman Goddess of fertility had a festival at,, guess when - Easter and her symbols were the Hare and Egg.
-----

EM: You are ABSOLUTELY correct!

Christmas is based in the solar calendar (same date every year 12/25)

Easter is based on a lunar calendar. Easter is always the first Sunday following the first full moon following the spring equinox. Can be any time between March 22nd, and April 15th to 22nd,.

Two Bears

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: GUEST,from bbc at work
Date: 12 May 04 - 12:08 PM

Two bears,

I was so sorry to hear of your experiences. My family background is Southern Baptist & some of them are quite fundamental in their thinking, but they would never behave as you described. I think it is fair to say that what you experienced is *not* characteristic of Southern Baptists, generally, nor should it be of any Christians. I do understand what you mean about good coming out of bad. I underwent an unsought 8-year divorce that left me strong, independent, & much more compassionate. I like the person I am today.

best to you,

bbc

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 12 May 04 - 12:08 PM

there are bedside lamps in many styles that are made to turn on and off with a touch (I'm not sure how they do this - but my neice had one for years)

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 May 04 - 12:11 PM

And that is the way to deal with it when bad things happen.

There's the saying "If it doesn't kill you it makes you stronger" - but I think it's as well to remember that works the other way, "If it doesn't make you stronger, it destroys you."

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Hollowfox
Date: 12 May 04 - 01:24 PM

Repaire, the "light the story candle" for a beginning of a preschool story time has been around since at least the late 1970's here in Ohio. If it would help, I could probably find documentation recommending it to inexperienced librarian-storytellers as a way to start their programs. Good luck, and see if you can get some help from that highest ranking Mormon supporter.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 12 May 04 - 01:28 PM

I believe it probably pre-dates that - as Thornton W. Burgess suppossedly adapted the "light a candle" custom to burning a small piece of wood in the fireplace - customizing the story to the length of burning time (and manner of burning) of the particular wood. This would have been in the 1920's

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Blackcatter
Date: 12 May 04 - 02:31 PM

The word Easter actually comes from the Germanic name for the celebration of the Spring goddess Eostare - the celebration was knows as Ostara or Eostare in England and Germany for a long time prior to the coming of Christianity. Hence the odd fact that English speaking countires are the only ones who celebrate Easter. Other countries celebrate the "Ressurection of Christ"

I said early on that I'm more scared of the LDS than Southern Baptists. My reasoning for that is the wierd concoction of Mormon "mythology" and practices that they like to insist are mainstream, but which no other Christian body recognizes. Their political and social attempts to persuade other Americans that they are mainstream, have allowed them to get away with quite a lot of really scary things. Mainly one of the biggest is that the state of Utah is nearly a Theocratical democracy in a similar way to Ireland.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 May 04 - 02:56 PM

Do Mormon's actually technically count as Christian? Surely they are more akin to Muslims, as seeing themselves as founded on a separate and subsequent revelation, and seeing Jesus as essentially a prophet, and not the final one prophet at that?

Sorry if that's a drift too far. And it's not meant to provoke any discord here. I just felt curious, and th Mudcat is where every curiosity can be satisfied.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 May 04 - 04:04 PM

All cultures generate ritual. It's part of our humanness. It's also part of our humanness that we trust our own symbols and rites and distrust others'. Xenophobia, in other words.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 12 May 04 - 04:30 PM

Granny sounds as if she's on a little power trip there.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: GUEST,skeptic
Date: 12 May 04 - 09:04 PM

Next time Granny comes in, have all the adults hold crossed candles in front of them while facing her and mumbling some nonsence words. That'll take her mind off the children...

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Blackcatter
Date: 12 May 04 - 09:33 PM

Mormons consider themselves Christians. Unlike Muslims, they do believe in the divinity of Christ (In Islam, Jesus is one of a long line of prophets such as Moses, Noah, Abraham & Mohammed. In LDS beliefs it is the revealed word of Christ in the New World that they follow along with the Old & New Testaments. The LDS story goes that after his death and ressurection and on his way to Heaven Jesus stopped in America - principly central and southern Mexico and brought his teaching to the Indians (presumably the predecessors of the Maya). It didn't seem to take as obviously the Indians certainly didn't exhibit and Christian tendencies when met by the Spanish some 500 years later. (I jokingly say that, unlike Bugs Bunny, Jesus DID take a left turn in Albequerque.)

The teachings of Jesus were enscribed on gold and brass. They were found in New York state by Joseph Smith, who is considered a prophet, not unlike Moses and Mohammed.

Other Christian sects generally have mixed feelings about the LDS. There are radical differences in LDS and mainstream Christianity, but they are Christian.

Please feel to correct any of my info - this is off the top of my head, but I've been doing studies of the LDS for many years.

pax y'all

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 May 04 - 09:39 PM

Well, our storyteller came around to my office to talk to me about it. She was wearing a tall, pointed, black hat and laughing fit to bust.

She's going to talk with Granny when she comes in tomorrow and explain that the candle bit has been going on for about fifteen years. And yes, she's quite thoroughly checked with the Fire Department and has insured that the smoke when the candle is blown out doesn't activate the alarms! She also uses a candle in a deep jar in which the bottom can be raised and lowered. During storytime it's kept well within her control; when the story session is over she picks up the candle and pushes it up, then all the kids (and her) "blow it out" (but the only one who actually does is the "Story Lady)."

It's really a very nice little ritual and the kids understand it.

We discussed getting a "story lamp" that she could use, turning it on and off from a distance (via lamp modules and suchlike stuff, all of which is easily available at Radio Shack).

I'll see what happens tomorrow. Everyone thinks that this will blow over when it's explained to Granny. If it doesn't -- well, I'll just have to roll out some Big Guns I have.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 May 04 - 10:05 PM

Oddly enough -- and this impresses LDS folks:

The Mormon Church was founded in upstate New York, and left there to establish its first temple in Kirtland, Ohio. Many of the Church's Doctrines and Covenants were promulgated there and in Hiram, Ohio.

*I worked in Burton, Ohio and used to drive to and from work through Hiram -- I've also visited the Temple in Kirtland.

They left Kirtland and moved to far western Missouri, where they were forced out (in a very cold February) and Joseph Smith arrested (for murder, I think). Cold and sick, the marched east across Missouri, crossed the Mississippi River at and were granted asylum in, Quincy, Illinois.

*I was born and raised in Quincy, Illinois. Some of my ancestors most likely sheltered some of the Mormons (I like to tell the Mormons I know that our family has always taken in stray dogs and Mormons (they laugh)).

From Quincy they moved upriver about 60 miles and founded Nauvoo, where they built their most famous temple. Joseph and Hyrum Smith were murdered in Carthage, Illinois.

*I've been to Nauvoo many times, beginning in the 1950s and most recently a week before the temple there was dedicated in June, 2002. My sister was for a time the Director of the Carthage Public Library.

The Mormons fled from Nauvoo and spent a cold winter at Council Bluffs, Iowa.

*The National Guard unit I belonged with back in the '60s traces its ancestry directly back to a militia unit which was activated to protect property in Nauvoo after the Mormons had fled.

At Winter Quarters (as the camp in Council Bluffs was called), the Mormon Church schismed. Emma Smith and Joe Jr. founded the Reformed Church (RLDS), another chap took a bunch off to Beaver Island, Michigan (an interesting side to American history here -- you should look it up!), and Brigham Young marched the rest to Utah. They spent most of the journey across Nebraska on the north side of the North Platte River, along what is now called "The Mormon Trail" (the south side of the river was the Oregon Trail).

*I've driven this route at least three times. At least.

To wrap it up, yes, I've been to Salt Lake City several times (heck, it's just 2.5 hours south of here). AND...

the Mormons I know can't understand why, with a personal history a lot of them envy, I'm not a member of the LDS church.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Cluin
Date: 12 May 04 - 10:11 PM

"Everyone thinks that this will blow over when it's explained to Granny. If it doesn't -- well, I'll just have to roll out some Big Guns I have."

You gonna lay the smackdown on her, Rap? Just a thought, but that may be counter productive.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 May 04 - 10:21 PM

Sort of -- I know some Big Guns in various churches around here (except for the Greek Orthodox) who can hole her boat 'twix wind and water. And they LIKE what the public library does for the kids.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: TS
Date: 12 May 04 - 10:27 PM

This sounds similar to the ongoing problem today...if it seems harmless enough it must be ever so harmful!...I think the thought that a candle and a MotherGoose rhyme is an evil prayer or spell or anything other then a candle and a mother goose ryhme is amazing. I'd be laughing at the ole bat too, Rap!.....Slainte!

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Blackcatter
Date: 12 May 04 - 11:46 PM

Witches prefer Grimm stories.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 13 May 04 - 03:54 AM

When I first began reading this thread, I really became so upset. Once again, being confronted with such a small-minded frightened person who seems intent on spreading her fear and ignorance (which of course, go hand in hand) to others.

But as the thread progessed, once again, it heartens me to read the responses of mudcatters. Lots of interesting folk lore, religious lore discussed, and in the end, I think there will be enough good reason and good faith to counter this sad grandmother and her misplaced distress.

I'll remember to light a candle for her...( For me, the idea was always about shining a light into the darkness-getting rid of the shadows, or at least showing them to be only shadows, and not the monsters of our imagination.)..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Wolfgang
Date: 13 May 04 - 08:07 AM

Pedant's corner:

English speaking countires are the only ones who celebrate Easter (Blackcatter)

We say 'Ostern' and we don't think of Germany as an English speaking country.

Wolfgang

(Silly German joke, and I'll have to stretch the language quite a bit to make it understandable in English: "Happy Eastern" "Thanks, but I personally prefer a happy western")

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: JennyO
Date: 13 May 04 - 10:18 AM

As a Pagan myself, I am unfortunately no stranger to the kind of fear and ignorance as demonstrated by this old lady. I certainly hope that she will be able to be "enlightened" somewhat.

Reading this thread put me in mind of someone we have in Sydney, who calls himself "Yuri the Storyteller". An important feature of his performance is to have the lights in the room dimmed, light a candle, tell his story, and at the end to dramatically blow the candle out to signify the end of the story, at which point the lights are turned on again. He is a master of his craft, and none of it has anything to do with witchcraft or anything like it, of course. You can read about him here

Here is one comment that has been written about him:

Sydney professional storyteller, Yuri, is once more our guest. The enclosed documentation tells you about the man, but it does little to prepare you for the impact - the magic of his reading. All the lights are turned off. Then, by the light of a single candle, Yuri starts his storytelling. In a storyteller less rooted in the storytelling traditions, this would be sheer gimmickery. Yet, be it an extract from "Cannery Row", a Celtic myth, or set in the foreboding of a Slavic forest, Yuri's candle is a natural adjunct to his storytelling. Actors would murder for his vocal delivery - and an ear which allows him to master all accents and dialects. He is not to be missed, for he is possibly the best storyteller in Australia." - Bill Iden, secretary Poets At The Pub (PATP) Newcastle.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 13 May 04 - 11:09 AM

Only English-speakers celebrate Easter??? Better warn the Church of Room and the Russian and Greek Orthodox Churches that they're offside!