Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: Nerd
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 10:57 AM

One thing that people seem to be misinformed about is what Ronstadt actually said. All she did was to dedicate a song to Michael Moore, who she said "cares about this country deeply and is trying to help." She did not go into a long political rant. Granted, as some of us have asked, why should I care what she thinks of Moore? On the other hand, why should I object to such a dedication, no matter my politics? It all seems like another right-wing intimidation ploy to me. And, as Greg says, a temper tantrum.

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From:
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 11:01 AM

to Bobbert and all the rest of you "Patriots" If you want to move out of this country, I can give you a whole list of places to go, however one is at the top of my list---------Hell!

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: GUEST,Agentgirl
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 11:16 AM

Harpgirl you're not entirely correct, Artworks, you're right. Ms. Ronstadt did have an obligation, professionally and ethically regardless of what her contract did or did not say, to disclose to her employers any antics she planned to display other than the musical performance she was hired for, most especially if it is political. This was not a Central Park, open-street concert, but a performance in a five-star facility with a five-star audience. I am greatly in favor of free speech, but there is a time and place for everything. Dixie Chick, Natalie, said so herself when interviewed by Diane Sawyer, that the British audience was not at all hostile to their group during their concert performance, she just felt the need to speak out. Unfortunately, Ms. Ronstadt paid the price for her need to speak out, just as the Dixie Chicks did and are stilling having to pay even now.

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: Peace
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 11:25 AM

From: GUEST,[e-mail]

Did you think of that all by yourself, or did your mommy help you with the big words?

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: ard mhacha
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 12:42 PM

I heard the Dixie Chicks interview on RTE [Irish Radio] and afterwards the many responses to the lady, all in support, what is going on in the US, have any men performers the courage of these two magnificent ladies?,.
Please get this imbecile out in November and THEN the world will be a safer place.

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 05:24 PM

On another thread I recalled how the mere mention of "...have you seen Fahrenheit"...sets off the most violent reactions in people one had thought to be reasonable thinking individuals.

As to Linda R., I surely believe in her right to make the comments she made---as surely did the Dixie Chicks. One expects that most folk performers do this---recall the time Woody Guthrie was booked a a posh NY club---they, too, did not get the performer they figured on. Eliza Gilkyson comes to mind as a recent artist that I have had on my program and who I have seen perform---OK she was preaching to the choir there---but she surely made some stinging political comments.

But, it is not only the "folk" performers that make political comments. Think about Las Vegas and the likes of the Sinatras, Sammy Davises, etc; Just that they were coming from a different side and seemed to be more Vegas "types", if you will. Probably made the local yokels feel "in" and brought the managements many dollars--more than a Rondstadt probably.

I surely commend Linda R. but, like most things, I suppose you had to be there to find out what really happened, how the audience was sold on the performance, and what was in her contract. Yet, even if all the things mentioned in the previous sentence were against her the fact she stood up for her beliefs and just made a simple comment and not a harangue speaks to her courage and forthrightness.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: GUEST,SteveGP
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 05:32 PM

It wasn't impromptu she did the same thing at Wolftrap in Virginia.

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 08:48 PM

Bobert....Dont go to hell, come to Scotland.

We've a tradition of free thought and free speech and your too big a guy to have to suffer these numbskulls.

Back to Linda, I think she was correct to use her position to put forward her point. Most of us are so disenfranchised as to have no voice at all in these matters.

Just been listening to Iris Dement....Now theres a lady who really puts her opinions across,you can feel her burning with the same fire I remember as a young man.
Im afraid the fire ,in my case has become the dull glow of cynisism,
but I still admire people who can hold on to it.
I agree with Ard Macha the women seem braver than the men politically.
Carol C is a great example..Ake

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: Once Famous
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 10:23 PM

It's not brave to spout bullshit, Ake. It's just bullshit.

A great example of a total hardhead once sided, jaded arguement.

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: Bo Vandenberg
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 01:39 AM

Looks like the Las Vegas spot has had multiple bands cancel gigs in protest of their treatment of Ronstadt. Looks like the media has been using the truth as a chew-toy again -- Rhonstadt says most of the extream facts are just plain wrong.

this link has an account purportedly to come from Ronstadt herself.


http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/breaking/072104ronsdadt.html

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 04:07 AM

Martin...It appears a lot of people on Mudcat dislike Carol, because she does not give an inch in her defense of the Palistinians.
I too believe that they have been abused,not just by the Israelis but by many vested interests,even a section of their own people.

But Carol is brave to stand up for her beliefs,as well as all the reseach she does, considering the amount of personal abuse she has to except.   I'm sure you'll agree that she never uses personal abuse as part of her platform.

Carols position is much like Lindas,when people think their entrenched
bigotries are under threat from common sense,they revert to abuse.
I know you dont give a shit for me or all the other arseholes on Mudcat,but surely if you put aside religious matters and view the subject from both sides,you must see that the major historical wrong has been done to the Palistinians....Ake

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: GUEST,Boston Man
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 07:40 AM

Linda,

Just SHUT UP AND SING!

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: ard mhacha
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 08:23 AM

And boy can she sing, get yourself "Canciones de mi Padre" and close your eyes, but don`t keep sitting on the cactus Martin.

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: JJ
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 09:09 AM

Here is a letter which claims to be from someone who was there, although I have no way to verify this. The original may be found at:
www.nationalreview.com/thecorner/04_07_18_corner-archive.asp#036039

Mr. Goldberg --

My wife & I were at the Linda Ronstadt performance in question, at the Aladdin in Las Vegas, and quite frankly, Aladdin President Bill Timmins' account of what happened is complete crap. There was mixed booing and cheering at Ronstadt's pro-Michael Moore comment, and that was about the extent of the "bedlam" that supposedly broke out. I saw no posters being torn down or cocktails being thrown in the air, and if people stomped out of the theatre unhappy, it was because 1) that was the last song Ronstadt performed; it was her encore; and 2) she mainly sang her standards repertoire, with the Nelson Riddle orchestrations, and a large part of the crowd wanted to hear more of her rock-'n'-roll stuff; she got the biggest round of applause for doing a lackadaisical run-through of her version of "Blue Bayou."

Frankly, my suspicion is that Timmins is way overdramatizing what happened, in order to justify giving Ronstadt the boot. It simply wasn't that big a deal.

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 12:06 PM

I think that the policy of the venue has a great deal to do with what is deemed acceptable. Las Vegas is a place that is probably mostly gangster controlled and they don't want to rock the boat. Bad for business.

The audience who booed her was probably given the green light by management.

I have seen concerts on TV that promote the Bush agenda and nobody says anything.

If I pay money to hear an artist, i wanat the whole person, not just an "acceptabble" part of that person. Their conviction gives their art some substance. I admire some country performers who have opposite points-of-view from what I believe and would still enjoy their performances. They have a right in this country (hopefully which will endure) to speak their mind.

Linda only promoted the movie. She didn't spend much time on that.


Moore is a lightning rod. Why should he be? It's not as if she was promoting Joe Stalin or Adolf Hitler. Moore is a filmaker.

Mel Gibson is a filmaker too. Do you think that the "Passion" hasn't been promoted by some so-called Christian performers?

There have been plenty of artists to promote many of the list of "patriots" that artbrooks has suggested. Robert E. Lee might be another lightning rod but plenty of traditional folk performers from the South would find his promotion acceptable in a concert.

The whole issue is a red herring for one reason alone. Those that agree with Linda have no problem with her. Those that disagree do.
It's all about where you're coming from. If she supported the Bush agenda in Iraq, I doubt whether there would have been any protest whatever. I don't see Progressive people defacing posters, yelling for their money back, or fighting with others.

I don't have any problem with artists who I like speaking their mind one way or another. It's an American thing to do.

Frank

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: ard mhacha
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 02:22 PM

Frank,You could have fooled me, it is very much a European thing to do.

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: GUEST,Jaze
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 08:24 PM

Ironically, I heard on the radio today that the Aladdin Resort has new owners or something who say that Linda Ronstadt is more than welcome to play there any time. What a scary place America is becoming when those who profess to be true Americans and patriots are the very ones who want to deny freedom of speech because it doesn't agree with THEM. I have a feeling we'll all be in the underground soon.

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 09:10 PM

The beatiful thing is that Linda has the right to voice her opinion but so does the audience. The problem is when the audience makes their opinion known by booing or walking out of the performance you liberals always blame the president like there is some sort of conspiracy. I do no think the administration had representaives at the concert. Lesson learned is you do have the right to voice your opinion but it may have consequences. I also have the the right to voice my opinion and not by your music or attend your events. Seems like your liberals only want it one way.

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 09:51 PM

I think its a tempest in a teapot, that Ronstadt used to promote her failing career. Why it is failing I don't know, because she has a great voice.

Politically speaking, as an artist, I find her to be disingenuous. Her artistic integrity didn't extend to her insistence on playing Sun City gigs back in the South African boycott days, when she was much more popular than she is now. And that was AFTER the boycott organizers pleaded with her not to perform.

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 09:54 PM

Guest, wake up. Who blamed the President in this case? I don't think anyone suggested that "liberals" took offense to the audience showing their disapproval. The issue is whether the Aladdin was correct in their actions.   You conservatives really have a unique way of interpreting the news, the Consitution and the Bill of Rights.

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: Alonzo M. Zilch (inactive)
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 10:37 PM

Martin Gibson wrote:

"This same controversy has been going on a long time with Peter, Paul, and Mary. In between songs, long political rants which are not represented on the records they sell to the public."

If that's what you think, then I don't think you've been listening to Peter, Paul & Mary records over the past 42 years. In 1962, their first album included political songs including several anti-war songs like "Cruel War" and "Where Have All the Flowers Gone," and "If I Had A Hammer," a song that celebrates civil rights, equality and justice.

Most of the albums that Peter, Paul & Mary have done since have included political songs. Their new album, "In These Times," includes "Have You Been To Jail For Justice," whose title is self-explanatory, "Jesus Is On the Wire," about the anti-gay hate crime murder of Matthew Sheppard, "Invisible People," about the injustice reigned upon Native Americans as Europeans conquered America, a medley of classic labor songs, etc.

Peter, Noel and Mary have always been politically active with their music. They sang at the March On Washington in 1963 just before Dr. King made his "I Have A Dream" speech, they were there in the Vietnam peace movement, the enviornmental movement, etc. When the Reagan administration was destroying democracy in Latin America, they were there standing up to the administration.

To suggest that their music has ever been apolitical is to show that you've just not paid any attention.

BTW, this is not the first instance of Linda Ronstadt getting involved either. She was very active, for example in the No Nukes movement.

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 11:05 PM

We heard on the local news that Linda Ronstadt dedicated the song "Straighten Up And Fly Right" to Enron in her lastest concert. Go Linda!

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 11:24 PM

Well, I was down in Elkins, WV last night crashing Blues Week and was talking wid my pal, Sparky Rucker, and asked him if he'd been behaving while he was there.

"Heck no, I performed last night in the auditorium and told 'um all to get their act together this election 'er I was gonna have to come back to West Virginia and kick some ass..."

That's my man... Like he says, "If yer gonna get the song, yer gonna get the sermon..."

Good on you, Sparky...

Bobert

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: Ron Davies
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 11:55 PM

This story gets better and better. According to the Wall St. Journal today, Michael Moore, in addition to demanding Aladdin rehire Linda, has offered to join her onstage to sing "America the Beautiful", "after which he would screen his film at no charge for anyone in Las Vegas who wanted to see it". There now, doesn't that make it all better, "Martin Gibson" , Larry K et. al.?   See that?-- no filthy capitalist he, Michael volunteers to show his film for free to a whole city. Now what else could you possibly want? Right?   LOL

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: Nerd
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 12:19 AM

nameless GUEST # 1 said: The beatiful thing is that Linda has the right to voice her opinion but so does the audience.

Yes, but it seems from all the accounts I've read that there were equal boos and cheers, and that then a few people in the audience threw drinks and tore down posters (which some accounts deny entirely). So my point is, "the audience" was split equally, and few of the ones who disagreed cared enough for it to spoil the concert for them. Then, a small minority of audience members tried to bully the casino into taking some action by vandalizing the place. I have no problem with the booing, but the casino claims it was objecting to the vandalism, and blaming it on Ronstadt herself.

I don't think it's a conspiracy directed from the white house. But I DO think it's a pattern we've seen a lot of lately, including in Florida in the 2000 elections when mobs of out of staters posed as Floridians and "protested" by intimidating vote counters. It's thuggery, and in this case it happens to be right-wing thuggery.

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: GUEST,mike p
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 04:11 PM

What a stupid ----- linda is. Does she not know that she just pissed off fifty percent of the american audience..
                                                    former fan

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: Amos
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 04:19 PM

GUest:

You are sadly mistaken.

She said what she had to say, and if half her audience is that blind-bat knee-jerk unthinking and reactive, she'd probably not miss them.


A

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 07:27 PM

'm amazed this is happening. I mean, I'm amazed that anyone is batting an eye over this. It's commonplace for musicians, especially folk musicians, to be very upfront about their politics, and they are typically liberal if not downright radical. Anyone out there ever heard of Pete Seeger? Peter, Paul & Mary? Paul Robeson? Utah Phillips? The Almanac Singers? The Weavers? Woody Guthrie? Arlo Guthrie? Bob Dylan? Phil Ochs? Joan Baez? I'm sure all these people (if they were all still alive) would approve of what Linda Ronstadt did enthusiastically. I'm amazed that anyone who frequents a website devoted to folk music wouldn't know this and expect this.

I'm trying to imagine how I'd react if any of these people surprised me by saying something I strongly disagreed with. Suppose one of them said he favored the death penalty, for example, or thought the Patriot Act was a good thing. I'd be shocked, but first of all, I'd LISTEN. I'd want to understand. If they recommended a movie that explained their point of view, I'd want to go see it. But regardless, I'd at least continue to enjoy their music. No way would you catch me defacing a poster, or demanding my money back for no good reason.

Furthermore, I don't believe any substantial number of Ronstadt's audience did that, either. Believe it or not, even most Republicans are decent people. It only takes one asshole to deface a poster, and for all we know, maybe only one asshole did. As far as people walking out, they were probably only trying to beat the rush, since it was during the encore anyway. I think the Aladdin management lied and exaggerated the whole thing. They probably want to blame her for their own incompetence. This is really reprehensible.

I guess I don't need to tell you what I think of the anonymous guests who not only take it for granted that the management's story is true, but even try to justify what the audience supposedly did.

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: mg
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 09:45 PM

just read the comment about art supposing to provoke...maybe..I have very lowbrow taste in art, and most people wouldn't call what I like art. Anyway, maybe so. But entertainment does not have to provoke. Our lives are hard and probably about to get harder and there is a great need for simple R&R....sometimes we don't need to be shocked or annoyed and pay for it besides. If I very infrequently go to hear a show of some sort, I would want to be informed as to the likelihood of being subjected to diatribes (not comments now and then) so I could make an informed decision. mg

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: Ron Davies
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 01:06 AM

"Former fan" Mike P.---you really don't think very clearly, do you?

This is probably the most and best publicity Linda has had in over 10 years (how about 20?) From a 70's oldies-night denizen (when did you last see her, by the way?), she has at a stroke become the darling of half the country, who now would probably love to see her, hoping for some political red meat as a bonus.

She was out of place in a Vegas hotel, although she actually would have been better received if she had done her 70's rock, not her Nelson Riddle (see earlier posting---people were at least if not more disappointed in that as in her pro-Michael Moore introduction to her encore.) Now she can go back to playing venues for people who are both musically and politically aware. She has basically stated she has nothing in common with reactionaries, so no sweat if they don't show up. If they do, there may be fireworks--a riot at a Linda Ronstadt concert?--definitely stretches the imagination. At any rate, it's certainly obvious to whom she can dedicate her next performance of "You're No Good".

You're certainly welcome to stay at home and burn your copy of "Heart Like A Wheel" in your back yard (which will be no sacrifice for you anyway since your turntable doesn't work). I'm sure Linda will understand--in fact she'll probably be honored to be treated the same way as John Lennon (1966) and Elvis earlier. Actually she would be against the pollution burning the record would cause, as would lots of us.

That reminds me--I've been meaning to pick up one of her CD's--which one would you recommend? LOL

Get used to it, it's election year homestretch, and a singer with any kind of folk bent is likely to have strong opinions, and as a thinking person is unlikely to support Bush. By the way, I'm a registered Republican--to my mind Bush is so far off the scale he's left the party.

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 08:08 AM

"Intimate venue" - 1300 people? !!!!!

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: GUEST,robin
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 10:11 AM

i support linda in her comments,this country needs to wake up.you can not trust bush.we are all targets for another terrorist attack.have we really taken precautions?are the borders secure?do we have a plan if we are attacked?are the first responders equipped with chemical suites,mask etc?duct tape and a few bottles of water will not cut it folks.this war has created more hate toward america which equals more terrorist.bush did not have to attack iraq,where is bin laden?he murdered our people,he needs to be caught.if bush was been really serious about going after those responsible for 911,sadam would not have been the target,oil was the focus.

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: Jeri
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 10:14 AM

Ron Davies[*], it's funny you should say that about Republicans & Bush. I'm the product of a mixed marriage: Dad was Democrat, Mom was Republican. I can remember them discussing politics and events in the news, and pretty much aggreeing on most things. I think this decade (perhaps longer, but I hope not) will go down as the 'age of unreason', when any slight difference of opinion is exaggerated and any issue becomes a wedge to drive people further apart.

This Linda Ronstadt thing...
How many of us who are atheist lefty types have sat there and listened to certain old-time, bluegrass, or country music legends make the odd comment that offended us, without walking out or raising hell? We could talk about it later, we could accept the person was a great musician and realise we were there for the music. We could enjoy a performance without necessarily accepting the whole package. It was more important to look for things we enjoyed and respected than look for things we despised.

Now, it seems like our culture, in the US, at least, is about finding things that piss us off, SAYIN things that piss others off, belittling our 'opposition', and driving the wedge in deeper. Finding common ground is something people did back when they thought tolerance was important and rebels were the ones who thought for themselves and didn't just jump on the big rebel bandwagon with the sign that says "If you think like us, you can be a rebel too!"

I think we had a chance after 9/11. I think people came closer together in grief, and yes, even anger. I think the wars and the defense of that policy have done nothing but polarise us and drive us further apart, and I can't see anybody arguing with that. What you might argue with is that I also believe that unity may have been a threat to some. Better for them that we squabble like little kids, throw tantrums in casinos because of something somebody says, and prove they can't leave us alone without adult supervision and a lot more house rules that we used to have.

[*] My recommendation would be Living in the USA. Some gems and some standards.

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 04:03 PM

Saw Linda at Ravinia last year - still hitting the high ones with awesome power. No politics that night!

The only personal note was to say that she altered her set-list to take advantage of the world-class musicians afforded her, which displeased no one.

She had the well-known jazz standards singer Steve Tyrell to open for her.

A gutsy and rarely seen thing to do since she could almost open for him. Most A-list performers would have used an unknown or a comic.

Does anyone recall an appearance on Leno wherein the outspoken lass blasted H. Stern while sharing the greenroom and "couch" with one of Howie's cohorts? I watched and said, "go you girl" then.

I'm glad Mr. Timmins didn't catch it or I would have missed my chance to encore my "go, you 58-year-old, ten-Grammy-winner girl!"

I'm closer politically to those conservatives she despises than to Mr. Moore, yet I'm not nervous that discovery will get me ejected if I ever get to hear her sing again.

Meanwhile ...

I only wish Mr. Moore would remind those who appreciate him that those who voted to authorize the use of force had access to the exactly the same intelligence GW had. If GW was duped by the pentagon and CIA, as Kennedy was prior to that pig-fiasco, his co-dupees in congress have successfully and shamefully covered their butts while he takes the brunt of Mr. Moore's passion.

Kennedy took responsibility for abandoning troops he commanded while they were under fire on the field of battle (a capital offense). No, no ... don't tell me how far removed he was politically or militarily from them ... they were US trained, US sponsored and US transported to the scene ... ultimately by the commander-in-chief.

Still had he lived he would have crushed Goldwater just as surely as Johnson did.

People need to appreciate that we don't have executive branch intelligence and congressional intelligence, or Democratic Party intelligence. Congress funds the CIA, and its intelligence committees have access to the same classified materials as the White House (a basic fact that gets very little ink these days).

Remember I'm not talking about GW actions, I'm interested in dozens of DC denizens who collectively gave him the go-ahead. They did not need GW to hand them the intelligence. As easily as they discredited him later, they could have discredited him, then.

Did Mr. Moore mention that the intelligence Powell presented to the UN specified that the UN weapons inspectors were being duped by the fact that the WMD they sought had been mobilized. If they were mobile so as to not be wherever the inspectors looked (the basis of Powell's UN appeal), why would anyone be surprised if they were mobilized out of the country by the time shock and awe subsided.

The fact is dozens were duped. By a very long list of dupers.

So lets throw GW out bag and baggage. He lacked the skills JFK used to recover from Pentagon/CIA fever. But let's not kid ourselves that the GW represents the problem.

Mr. Moore should be planning a sequel. All successful Hollywood efforts deserve a sequel. In it he should seek out those who could have prevented GW from using the force he was authorized to use.

Conservatives/Republicans make up a third of the American populace. Even Reagan needed "Reagan Democrats" to beat Mondale. There are less conserv/repubs today than then.

By all arithmetic logic and the morning headlines GW should concede the election now.

Liberals have all the media except O'Reilly (good grief!) and that radio bozo (you know, the football expert?), yet have no majority role in the running of any branch of the federal government. To the point where it seems all they can do is stand on the sidelines of American political life and BOO!

Yet even with Mr. Moore's film Kerry has not yet "locked" the vote.

Does anyone find that amazing?

Folks who venture to glamorous places like Linda, go to places the evildoers would like to mess with. They have a right to be concerned. They cannot be expected not to express themselves.

Being stalked by Al Qaida is no different than being stalked by nutsy fans. From Linda's point of view, security is security and she thinks a GWectomy might help. And it might. Can you blame her?

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: GUEST,another GUEST
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 08:16 PM

GUEST, you numbnuts, an incumbent President is almost NEVER doing as badly as Bush is doing now, before even the Democratic convention. Moore's movie is a documentary, for God's sake. The fact that ANYONE has seen it is surprising, so to expect it to have any effect on an election is optimistic. An to expect Kerry to have "locked" the vote is ridiculous.

Yeah, the lefties have all the media, except for Bill O'Reilly and Scarborough, and Olbermann, and Wolf Blitzer, and Chris Matthews, and practically all radio, and most of CNN, MSNBC, and CNBC, not to mention all the rest of Fox, plus many newspapers thanks to Murdoch, plus network folks like John Stossel, etc., etc.

Finally, your claim is that all of Congress had access to all the intelligence Bush did? Nope. In large part, they were duped by HIM. Not only on intelligence issues, but on how he would use the authority they gave him. So sure, blame congress for getting duped. But don't pretend the administration was as innocent a victim as they were. The administration WANTED to go to war, WMD or no (note how they are STILL telling the war was justified, WMD or no) so they were not "duped." They were helped by the bad intelligence, and their agenda was advanced. They would not have gotten a majority in congress without joining the ranks of the dupers.

I agree we need to get rid of him, though!

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 09:59 PM

Much of the coverage on this affair seems a bit less than illuminating. For example THIS sterling bit of journalism.

Can someone explain to me how Linda Ronstadt's not liking George W. Bush and his policies makes her a bigot!???

From the article:   ". . . any right-thinking person. . . ." [Emphasis mine.]   Yeah, I guess you could say that.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 12:14 AM

Sorry, for once i have nto read the whole thread, but I came across this op/ed piece and thought it worth posting the link. The writer actually knows something about folk protest music...even mentions Steve Earle and Tom Waits!

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 02:48 AM

From the article posted by Don Firth:

"It's a real conflict for me when I go to a concert and find out somebody in the audience is a Republican or fundamental Christian. It can cloud my enjoyment."

So sez Linda.

THIS is how she can be a bigot, big guy. Or did you not bother to read the article?

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 04:01 AM

Funny, I pull a dick when I see chicks, too...

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 12:59 PM

OK, courageous GUEST:

If Linda goes to a concert (is she attending or singing?)...

If she's attending, she has 3 choices: stay and say something, stay and say nothing or leave. I suspect she does not toss her can of Diet Pepsi at either the offending individual or the stage.    If she's singing the concert, she has no choice--she stays.

By the way, how did she find out the person is a Republican or a fundamentalist Christian?
Is the person yelling at her that she has no right to sing "Will There Be Any Freight Trains In Heaven?" since she's not "born again"?   I'd say she has a right to feel uncomfortable.

Pretty clearly wretched sensationalist journalism, as Don says. But that won't stop giant intellects like yours from reading the worst possible interpretation into it

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 01:33 PM

Kat....Thanks ,I loved that link.

Thats what we need ,a bit of fucking fury.
Blair Bush and company are stomping all over us and all we can do is wait for Kerry or Howard to save us....Ha Ha Ha.

We really have become the apathetic generation.   Where are the voices of our conciences....Gone to graveyards every one???   

Even on Mudcat all we've got is a bunch of fucking number crunchers like Teribus....Fuck the "facts", lets have a bit of emotion...Ake

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 01:52 PM

Ake--

The only way to defeat factual arguments is to counter with facts, not emotion.

But, take heart. Most of the Bushites are not like Teribus, a worthy debate opponent, but more along the lines of deep thinkers like "Martin Gibson". The vast majority of the semiliterate ranters are on that side.

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 02:11 PM

OK Ron,   But Im of the opinion that facts dont exist,and the word itself is only used as a means of manipulation,like "Democracy","Accountability" "Freedom""Fulfillment",   Need I go on?
The only truth is that ache in your heart when you just know something is wrong ,...Like the war in Iraq..
You dont have to be a rocket scientist to know they are lying through their teeth,and their lies have made us all complicit in the deaths and mutilation of hundreds,or thousands of innocent men women and children.
All the arseholes on this forum who complain about all the politics and Iraqi threads ,should listen to Dougie McLeans beautiful song "What have they done".Although it was not written for the Iraq war, it applies perfectly,and you know Dougie means every word.
We need a bit more fury, Weve become a nation of wimps....Ake

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 02:22 PM

And another thing...I dont think Teribus is a semi -literate ranter.

On the contrary, I think his use of so called "facts"is a tactic which he and his ilk use to cover the truth.

People must learn to think for themselves and dont allow their masters to spoonfeed them crap disguised as truth.

Teribus is the guy in charge of the spoon !!

Remember Gleneagles Hotel 2005...   Ake

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 02:25 PM

Ake--

Fury is great, Ake.

But more important is that every one of the furious realize how important it is to "plant a Bush back in Texas" in November--and it ain't by voting for Nader.

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 06:08 PM

You're welcome, Ake. I like to see some passion, too.:-)

I was appalled to see one poll say Bush was slightly ahead of Kerry. I cannot fathom a nation that would actually put the shrub back in the White House when he clearly needs to be put out to pasture...preferably one with padded, sound-proofed walls .

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 09:48 AM

I haven't read all of this post; but, here's my read on this. The audience payed for her artistic skills, not her political opinions.
    Wilco 48,in Tennessee

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: GUEST,read the damn thread!
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 11:47 AM

GUEST:

"I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about, and can't be bothered to learn, but I'll tell you my worthless uninformed opinion, anyway."

Thanks for sharing, dickhead.

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 06:00 PM

Ron Davies said:


The only way to defeat factual arguments is to counter with facts, not emotion.

Correction: The only intellectually responsible way to defeat factual arguments is to counter with facts, not emotion. But emotional appeals do, more's the pity, often prevail over the facts. And those who would do that don't care about the facts anyway.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Linda Ronstadt pulls a Dixie Chicks
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 07:30 PM

Dave...I remember George Bush and Colin Powell going to the UN with a huge bundle of "facts",why they even had pictures of "facts" and Colin told us all what the pictures showed....They showed WMDs,a bloody great arsenal of them.

The "facts" and pictures were so clear that Colin George and Tony convinced us all that we should go to war and blow the arms , legs ,and eyes from the children that I watched on TV one week ago.

The thinking people of the world, although not in possesion of Colin George and Tonys bundle of facts ,instinctively knew that the whole enterprise had a very bad smell. They marched in their millions, but ,of course facts are always right...

Tell it to the children....Ake