BS: Christmas? A rant

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Ed T
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 11:13 AM

On Mall Santas:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZ6fdTU0qEo

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 06 Dec 09 - 11:57 AM

Though no great fan of No Roses, on which Shirkey Collins first coins the name Albion Country Band, I dearly love The Battle of the Field after which All Things Albion leave me rather cold to be honest, but such in English Folk Rock - IMHO possibly the worst music in the world, Mr Fox and Bright Phoebus notwithstanding.

At Xmas, folk-wise at least, I might reach for the Waterson Carthy Holy Heathens album, or better still the cassette Jim Eldon made with Billy Harrison (from which comes the tune Waterson Carthy use for While Shepherds...). Billy furnished Jim Eldon with an amazing tune for For Unto Us A Child Is Born but didn't have the words, so Jim assembled them himself from the Gospel of St. Matthew. To hear this truly astonishing & uplifting piece of work:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSeEsS6-HGQ

If that doesn't get you in the Xmas spirit, nothing will!

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 06 Dec 09 - 11:58 AM

Shirkey Collins? Yeah, she was some gal that one...

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Dec 09 - 10:58 PM

I'd be quite satisfied with a mere 400 quid and some shortbread, Toe Rag. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 07 Dec 09 - 03:04 AM

Sweeney: the version of While Shepherds Watched on Holy Heathens is one of the Sheffield Carols, surely? Did they get it from Jim Eldon?

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Dec 09 - 04:21 AM

One Yorks group I know always sing While Shepherds Watched to tune of On Ilkley Moor Baht 'At — fits beautifully.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 07 Dec 09 - 07:17 AM

MtheGM - it SHOULD work really well: I think I'm right i nsaying that the tune, Cranbrook, was actually written for While Shepherds Watched. Ilkley Moor came later and borrowed it! :)

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 07 Dec 09 - 10:01 AM

Sweeney: the version of While Shepherds Watched on Holy Heathens is one of the Sheffield Carols, surely? Did they get it from Jim Eldon?

The Holy Heathens CD booklet credits the tune source to Jim Eldon, who got it from Billy Harrison, though no mention is made of Billy here, unfortunately - nor yet of Sheffield. Don't know what gets sung in Sheffield - word is the Carol Scene is even more up itself than the regular folk scene if that's possible. I wonder if Jim still has copies of the Billy Harrison cassette? If so I urge you to check it out - it really is the real McCoy.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 07 Dec 09 - 10:32 AM

"word is the Carol Scene is even more up itself than the regular folk scene"

Ummm - in what way? You wedge yourself into the pub with about 150 other people, and you sing. I did it yesterday. You can buy a book of words if you want to, as many of the carols are not sung anywhere else, and no one looks at you askance if you use them. Pretty egalitarian, as these things go.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 07 Dec 09 - 10:40 AM

Just stuff I've heard down the years from various old folkie friends who have been made to feel less than welcome. From what I've seen & heard of it myself it looks jolly enough fun.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 07 Dec 09 - 11:07 AM

Well, there can be certain modes of behaviour that develop around these things - there might be an element of "you can't sit there, that's so-and-so's chair", but I always think that when traditions really belong to a community, we "folkies" are basically tourists, and it's incumbent upon us to understand that and be respectful and try not to tread on anyone's toes. But having said all that, I can think of traditional events that are FAR more insular than Sheffield Carols. I've never observed anyone being made to feel unwelcome. But it is a pretty catch-as-catch-can experience, with everyone cheek-by-jowl, and the struggle to get to the bar or the loo can be a bit of a trial. If visitors go expecting lots of people sitting round singing politely as though they're in church, they might be in for a shock.

Re Holy Heathens: there are lots of versions of While Shepherds in the Sheffield tradition - i'm pretty sure that's one of them.

Wasn't there a post here a little while ago about the bloke who wrote Cranbrook? Or did I dream it?

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Folkiedave
Date: 07 Dec 09 - 11:35 AM

Just stuff I've heard down the years from various old folkie friends who have been made to feel less than welcome. From what I've seen & heard of it myself it looks jolly enough fun.

I have been going to Dungworth, most sings since 1973, so I now count as one of the old fogies.

We have welcomed dozens upon dozens of friends old and new over the years and from all parts of the Uk and the world. Three came back for soup and sandwiches yesterday afternoon, along with some others we had already invited. I do this most Sundays (unless we have previous invitations ourselves. They were total strangers at the start of the day. So I do resent the suggestion that people are unwelcoming.

However Barry Callaghan published a guide to etiquette. I quote from it "......but if ten strangers appear in the middle of the room taking up valuable singing space, they will quickly feel uncomfortable."

I have certainly seen this happen including this year(!!)(which is why it is in the guide). I just wonder if this is what your friends did perhaps?

http://www.folk-network.com/info/carols.html

The piece about etiquette is at the bottom.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Folkiedave
Date: 07 Dec 09 - 11:36 AM

And I thought I saw a piece about Cranbrook too!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 08 Dec 09 - 06:45 AM

What I heard was that the carols had been taken over by folk revivalists and was more about them than the local communities. Looking at that link that doesn't seem to be so much the case, though that was some time ago. As I say - looks like a lot of fun; just a shame it's so far away really.

*

The Billy Harrison / Jim Eldon cassette was on Music Traditions. Here's the review: http://www.mustrad.org.uk/reviews/harrison.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 08 Dec 09 - 07:33 AM

"What I heard was that the carols had been taken over by folk revivalists and was more about them than the local communities. Looking at that link that doesn't seem to be so much the case, though that was some time ago"

Ian Russell runs a carols festival every other year, with workshops that teach the carols. That is attended by a lot of revivalists, but it has also helped to re-introduce carols from the surviving manuscripts, some of which had previously fallen out of the repertoire. But that's only one day, every other year. The pubs that host carols are rammed for four or five Sundays leading up to Christmas, and it's a real mixure of locals and folk enthusiasts. (Sometimes the two things are not mutially exclusive.)

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Folkiedave
Date: 08 Dec 09 - 08:04 AM

I of course speak as a "not mutually exclusive". I can see the Royal Hotel from my house which must make me a local-ish. They can be a bit insular in Dungworth.

I was at a less well-known sing last night. There was a genuine song-carrier(or source singer)there; a number of folkies; at least three singers from the Sheffield Philharmonic Chorus; a member of a cathedral choir; some well-known folkies and their parents; a well-known folkie without his parents (!!) and about ten people who live within a mile of the pub who learnt the songs at childhood and they are now around 70.

Last year I interviewed a man from Ireland who had come over for the carol festival. The one thing he wanted to emphasise above all else was the sense of community. Take n notice of what people tell you, it is open to all with an interest in singing.

just a shame it's so far away really.

Unless you are in Australia - it isn't!!

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 05:36 AM

For anyone local there is a sing at the Nag's Head, Stacey Bank.

Up the Valley and on the left. Just before the Dungworth turn-off.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 07:21 PM

And what a sing!!

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 04:54 AM

And another new one from The Great Man Himself, just to get you all in the festive mood...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIhqfB0QAbk

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 20 Dec 09 - 06:46 PM

Not much longer till the supermarkets start stocking food again rather than party titbits.