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BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia From: beardedbruce Date: 26 Sep 07 - 06:46 PM SRS, "Read BB's stuff and you see shoddy sources and hair-brained conclusions" That is very interesting, coming from a nasty piece like you who demanded that HER sources be always assumed correct, and ANY source that differed with her opinion was therefore false, without even bothering to look at it. If uyou think my sources are shoddy, perhaps you need to look at them. Encyclopaedia Britannica, for the last few. But I guess that would be too difficult for an academic genius to bother with. My conclusions are based on the facts of record: YOURS seem to be based of whatever you want to believe at the time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia From: Mike Miller Date: 26 Sep 07 - 07:07 PM I can't believe I got sucked into this chazerai (pig sty) again. I promised myself noy to try to conduct a dialogue with the cadre of closet Jew baiters who infect this forum. There is not, nor will there be, a cogent discussion on matters concerning the Jewish state. Frankly, I have had true discussions with Palastians and pro-Palastinian Israelis but I have never had a real discussion with a anti-Israeli non Semite. Those people don't understand the situation, at all. A Palastinian understands. He fights for his land. So, does the Israeli. Neither cares about the objective morality of his position. It is the home of his fathers and his culture. It identifies him. The kneejerk antipathy of the Moslem world, toward Israel, is based on culture, history, language and the deepest part of common faith. The, equaly, knee jerk support, for Israel, from the West, is pretty much the same. It's a family thing. But, what gets my goat is people, who have never been under the gun, stand a safe distance from involvement and take sides based on their own prejudices. Our home grown Rockwells say that theu are not anti-Jewish, they are anti-Zionists. I suspect they use Zionism the way some folks use "law and order". It never takes long before these Hamens appear. You should have heard them during the gas crunch in the 70's. Forunately, most Jews and Christians feel the affinity for the Jewish homeland with a zeal that matches the Moslem's. I am not saying that the left is anti-Semitic. A lot of the sympathy that is shown to the Arabs is based on pity. A liberal, almost by definition, sides with the underdog. It doesn'y matter who they are or how they got there. They're downtrodden, we love 'em. Believe me, this hasn't been easy for liberal Jews. Our guts say "survive", our hearts pity the plight of the Palastinian. We have been trying to work out a compromise for sixty years. Well, I'm never going to reach the hearts of some but, for what it's worth... Mike |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia From: Stilly River Sage Date: 26 Sep 07 - 07:15 PM Name calling, that's a strong suit of yours also, BB. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia From: number 6 Date: 26 Sep 07 - 07:53 PM "Now they have a country. Tough shit for anyone who doesn't like it. Now, nobody will fuck with them. And if that had been the history of your people you'd wanna be the toughest sonuvabitch on the block. Well, they are. AND THAT'S THAT." Well said Peace. biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia From: Bobert Date: 26 Sep 07 - 08:15 PM SRS, Well, sheet fire, girl... You got T-zer all lathered up and BB back to SCREAMING, as if that makes him right (???)... You go, girl... BTW, as for what you have said being the "dumbest" thing that T has ever read I'd refer him back to his own dumb arguments during the mad-dash-to-Iraq that were so ill thought out that it now has the US and the UK back on its heels in just about every respect... Yet t will be more than happy to recite his liteny or UN Resolutions, as if they actually have any relevence to a decision that George Bush made even before 9/11??? Go figure??? Dumbest??? LOL, T... Thank Goodness that you dumb stuff is archived... You can run but you cannot hide... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia From: Ron Davies Date: 26 Sep 07 - 08:33 PM pdq-- "Facts trump opinions every time". Very observant. "Problem is, by the time he (Ahmadinejad) leaves the office (sic), Iran will have nuclear weapons." Now, what makes that a fact? Source please. The next Iranian election is scheduled for June 2009. Less than 2 years from now. Fact. Unless Ahmadinejad is forced to step down before that, due to Iranian discontent. Unions and students, among others, have already shown unhappiness with him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia From: Bobert Date: 26 Sep 07 - 08:51 PM Facts, Ron??? We ain't gonna get none... What we are gettin' is just more sophisticated propaganda... Had it none been for all the ***lies*** that Bush got caught in in gettin' US into Iraqmire then they wouldn't have to work the PR folks so hard now... Your tax dollars at work, you know... S.S.D.D.... And the beat goes on... Right now the PR folks are waiting for anything right to happen within the Bush administration so they can use that as a jumping off point to sell the American people on a new 'n shiney war.... Reminds me of an ol' Jethro Tull song entitled "New Day Yesterday"... "It was a new war yesterday it's an old war now..." Well, my own thoughts are that the Bush asministration will do nuthin' right between now and when he is retreats to Crawford so I think the PR folks have a long row-to-hoe if they think they can sell a 3rd war while the US isn't really doing well in the other two Bush wars but what scares me is that Bush and his cronies have corraled so much power that they might just invade Irabn without any Congressionl authority.... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia From: Peace Date: 26 Sep 07 - 10:21 PM GUEST, Pest: You are the reason some mammals eat their young. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia From: number 6 Date: 26 Sep 07 - 10:53 PM Back to the subject of this thread ... Ahmadinejad can talk all he wants. So can Bush ... personally, I'm getting tired, and disgusted of their lies, threats and "sophisticated propaganda", PR or whatever you want to call it. I'm not buying any of their rhetoric. Period. How can anyone justify one over the other? Anyway ... that's my 2 cents for whatever it's worth. biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia From: Stilly River Sage Date: 26 Sep 07 - 11:01 PM Thanks, Bobert. Mike Miller wrote I promised myself noy to try to conduct a dialogue with the cadre of closet Jew baiters who infect this forum. There is not, nor will there be, a cogent discussion on matters concerning the Jewish state. Frankly, I have had true discussions with Palastians and pro-Palastinian Israelis but I have never had a real discussion with a anti-Israeli non Semite. There's nothing like a good logical fallacy to shut down a political discussion, eh? Poison the well--suggest that a person who says anything negative about Israel must be an anti-Semite, so everything they say about Israel is false or uninformed. Dubya used this trick after Sept. 11. Anyone who opposed his rush to war must not be a patriot, so people who objected to his disastrous response kept their mouths closed so they wouldn't be barred from the conversation later by the rancor of knee-jerk conservatives. It's time people learned to separate the Jewish faith from the Jewish state. Set aside the corrosive wellspring of collective guilt over somehow not doing enough to prevent the Nazi death camps, set aside the hyperbolic romantic ideals of freedom fighters in the deserts of the Middle East from a Leon Uris novel. Look at the lives being lived in the region--yes, it is a set of politically manufactured states. The British were good at taking places apart and rearranging them. Look at India, Pakistan, Iraq, and Iran. Lumping and sorting that led to massive bloodshed, boundaries established because a minor functionary in London had a handy straight edge when he was drawing the map of new nations for people he didn't understand or never saw. The Israelis aren't responsible for the great disarray in the Arab world--infighting and factions have taken their toll. The Israelis are, however, guilty of frequently walking into that powder keg with a lighted match. Edward Said wrote in 2002:
Surely the time has come to start thinking of ourselves as a people with a common history and goals, and not as a collection of cowardly delinquents. But that is up to each one, and it's no good sitting back blaming "the Arabs" since, after all, we are the Arabs. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia From: Riginslinger Date: 26 Sep 07 - 11:21 PM At the end of the day, they'll probably never be an end to it until rational thinking people rise up and stamp out the scourge of religion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia From: number 6 Date: 26 Sep 07 - 11:26 PM Well ... Ahmadinejad's solution to the Middle East crisis is to destroy Israel,.... getting back (in some ways) to the subject of this thread. If I lived in Israel I would be kinda concerned (whatever stand I take regarding the Palestinians)with statements coming from a guy like him. And Bush, your president, wants Arabian the oil and is willing to sacrifice the lives of Americans, but also the citizens of of the mideast to get it all under the guize of security. biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 26 Sep 07 - 11:51 PM Selective facts, like selective statistics, yield the answer one wishes. This stuff has been gone over before. I am sorry I posted and should have known better. I have bitten before in other threads. I have quoted the usual references, Britannica and Middle Eastern studies, etc., etc.; a waste of my time. There is no way a zionist, or a Hamas supporter, can be persuaded to discuss matters intelligently (particularly the former). Authors of a new book, John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen M. Walt, "The Israel Lobby and U. S. Foreign Policy," contend that the Jewish lobby jeopardizes the national security of the United States. An extensive review by Leslie H. Gelb appears in The New York Times Book Review, September 23, 2007. Professors at Chicago and Harvard, resp., they say that U. S. policy is so lopsidedly pro-Israel that it fuels Muslim terrorism against the United States. Named as especially virulent lobbyists are the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations, The Anti-Defamation League and the publisher Mortimer Zuckerman. The book is published by Farrar, Straus & Giroux, 484 pp. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia From: mg Date: 26 Sep 07 - 11:52 PM I don't think Paris Hilton is too late at all to go to Rhwanda. I am sure there little micropools of misery still left there, and just by going she will have photographers going there too... And you can wave magic wands and say presto here is a state for some oppressed people, but oh dear, there are already people living there, in houses they consider theirs, tending goats they consider theirs, raising oranges and olives they consider theirs. How inconsiderate of them not to just vacate. I would have sooner given them a large chunk of Austria and Germany..people there too, mostly innocent, but closer to the problem. mg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia From: Mr Happy Date: 27 Sep 07 - 07:16 AM number 6, Yourself and a significant number of other respondents here seem to be convinced that 'Ahmadinejad's solution to the Middle East crisis is to destroy Israel,.... ' I really can't comprehend why you persist in the belief that the 'translation' promulgated by the New York Times was true. Here's some more correct information about what Ahmadinejad really said about Israel: [as posted above by McGrath] Lost in translation. Experts confirm that Iran's president did not call for Israel to be 'wiped off the map'. Reports that he did serve to strengthen western hawks. Jonathan Steele June 14, 2006 12:49 PM My recent comment piece explaining how Iran's president was badly misquoted when he allegedly called for Israel to be "wiped off the map" has caused a welcome little storm. The phrase has been seized on by western and Israeli hawks to re-double suspicions of the Iranian government's intentions, so it is important to get the truth of what he really said. I took my translation - "the regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time" - from the indefatigable Professor Juan Cole's website where it has been for several weeks. But it seems to be mainly thanks to the Guardian giving it prominence that the New York Times, which was one of the first papers to misquote Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, came out on Sunday with a defensive piece attempting to justify its reporter's original "wiped off the map" translation. (By the way, for Farsi speakers the original version is available here.) More here: http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/jonathan_steele/2006/06/post_155.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia From: Wolfgang Date: 27 Sep 07 - 07:45 AM you'll find that in actuality there are a lot, if not mostly, U.S. dollars in regular use as well. (Stilly River Sage, emphasis mine) Why are you defending a wrong statement of fact with new nonsense instead of simply admitting an error in a minor detail? I recommend a look at a site with travel tips for Israel (U.S. dollars in cash are accepted at a limited number of shops you'll find for instance). And even if the information was true what would it mean? Sites with travel tips for Iran state that US dollar is accepted as cash nearly everywhere in Iran. Do we learn anything from that? No. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 27 Sep 07 - 07:56 AM Mr. Happy, The official Iranian news agency gave the same quote. Khofi Anan, with the benefit of the UN translation unit, gave the same quote. Ahmadinejad has refused to deny or withdraw the quote. See links in my previous posts. thread.cfm?threadid=104986&messages=166&page=2&desc=yes#2157575 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia From: greg stephens Date: 27 Sep 07 - 08:27 AM The poor man is getting a lot of stick for saying there aren't any gays in Iran Foir heaven's sake, cut the chap a bit of slack. He's doing his best to achieve this target. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia From: Peace Date: 27 Sep 07 - 10:31 AM Truer words . . . . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia From: Stilly River Sage Date: 27 Sep 07 - 10:37 AM What I am stating, Wolfgang, is what I was aware of a number of years ago. Perhaps this has changed. Why don't you post more than a snippet by way of correction, you visit the travel site and offer the explanation? I have a friend who travels to Israel every couple of years, and she has no difficulty shopping with U.S. dollars. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia From: Peace Date: 27 Sep 07 - 10:51 AM People can do that in Canada, too. Use American currency at a 'fair' exchange rate that is. The bills seldom stay in circulation long, but there's no problem having the money accepted at most stores. (Large bills are usually refused because of counterfeits, but smallre denominations are taken with no problem. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia From: Stilly River Sage Date: 27 Sep 07 - 10:58 AM Good read--I should have clarified "cash" when I posted. Bruce, last time I was in Canada I found some Canadians where more interested in the U.S. coins--those collectible quarters in particular. I ended up going through my coin purse a couple of times for folks who were looking for particular states. :) SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia From: Peace Date: 27 Sep 07 - 11:05 AM We had that with quarters here. They did a 'collection' that had one for each Province and Territory and I think one for Ottawa, making 14 in all. I wasn't aware of the States collection, SRS. When's the last time you were up? (Sorry for the thread drift here, but despite my disagreement with SRS's views to do with Israel, she's a smart lady and a nice one, too.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia From: 3refs Date: 27 Sep 07 - 11:25 AM He shoots! He scores! Words made famous here in Canada, The United States and Newfoundland by Foster Hewitt during his Hockey Night in Canada broadcasts, translates to, "Il tire ! Il marque!" in French ! Now, translate "Il tire ! Il marque!" back into English and you get "It draws! It marks! Now most Canadians, who listen to French broadcasts, know that we usually here "Il lance, il count!" which translates to "It launches, it count!". Sometimes we hear "La but!"(le?)which is "The Goal". Of course there are many different versions of scoring a goal in both English and French. My point being, sometimes things get lost in the translation. I'm not sure just exactly what Ahmadinejad meant with his reference to "Homosexuals". Is it possible that what he intended to say, could he do it in English, was that "yes we have homosexuals, but they don't enjoy the same kind of freedoms as those in western country's!". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia From: Peace Date: 27 Sep 07 - 11:56 AM "Iran: Two More Executions for Homosexual Conduct (New York, November 22, 2005) – Iran's execution of two men last week for homosexual conduct highlights a pattern of persecution of gay men that stands in stark violation of the rights to life and privacy, Human Rights Watch said today. " |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia From: Riginslinger Date: 27 Sep 07 - 12:22 PM Bollinger lost all credibility when he called Ahmadinejad a "penis-spud." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia From: Peace Date: 27 Sep 07 - 12:38 PM I think Ahmadinejad is a stupid man on the order of George Bush stupid. That is, brigher than yer average turnip, but not by much. It's a good thing he has no real power. W'all best get thinking about those who DO call the shots in Iran. And it ain't him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia From: Peace Date: 27 Sep 07 - 12:52 PM So, how long will Iran keep up the 'maskirova' for? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia From: bobad Date: 27 Sep 07 - 12:56 PM 3refs, I believe that should read "Il lance, il compte" - he throws (shoots) the puck, he counts (a point) scores. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia From: Teribus Date: 27 Sep 07 - 01:54 PM Hey SRS have a look at what today is as an anniversary for the great leader of the "Palestinian" people: http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/september/27/newsid_4579000/4579685.stm |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia From: dick greenhaus Date: 01 Oct 07 - 02:28 PM "I would have thought that my friend, Mr. Greenhaus, would have been more aware of the realities of protest. In today's atmosphere of antipathy, even the most apathetic will react to personal threat. (That is the real reason The US got into this war and the reason why so many approved. For the first time, we were threatened by acts of terror. We were mad, scared and determined to fight. Say what you will, it was that very real threat that got GWB reelected) But some of us feel more threatened than others. Jews have recent memories of massacres and freindly indifference. To a Jew, a national leader who rails against Jews, denies or discounts the Nazi Holocost, and openly supports Hammas, is a very real threat. I, personally, don't want anyone silenced but I can, well, understand why many would. It is like Lester Maddox being invited to speak at Grambling. I imagine the students might make their displeasure known to one and all. So, although I agree that everyone has, or shoud have the right to free speech, I find the scolding of those who protested out of realistic fear, have been given a bad rap by this forum." I have no argument with those who feel threatened, and/or wish to express displeasure or protest or outrage, but those folks have no right to prevent others from hearing that which displeases them. If Columbia thought fit to invite Ahmadinejad to speak, they had a responsibility to make sure that he could speak; having a imbecilic university president attack him before he spoke was not only abysmal manners, but made Ahmadinejad look better than hi might have by comparison. One function of a University should be to teach students the basics of civilized behavior. |
