BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 09:56 PM

We don't need Ghostbusters... We need Republican PR-Busters... When you go into the "well, ah hem, the dems and repubs are both the same and work for the same guys" you are repeating the BIG LIE that the Repub PR have put out there...

There are choices now that are very real... The current Republican Party is more dangerous than any party since the Democrat Party of 1860...

This is our reality... We don't have a lot of time here... I every state where they have taken over statehouses they are trashing women and unions and anything that FDR would be about...

We are at war... We don't have time for Dennis Kucinich to ride in and save us... This is our reality... The Repubs have us pinned and they are about to drive the final stake thru our hearts, the New deal, unions, women, etc...

This is not time to stand on the sidelines and play like it ain't happening... It's happening in Ohio, in Wisconsin, in Virginia and other states... The Republicans want to strap women down and invade their bodies...

No time left for the classless and free discourse...

Time's up...

You are either part of the problem or part of the solution... Blaming Dems is part of the problem...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 11:24 PM

Bobert,

I am going to shut up and let you do all of the talking because you are nailing the shit out of it.

I got no time to argue with the high fallutins who like to demonstrate how enlightened and above it all they are. Fuckin right we are chickens flapping our wings against a hurricane. But we are flapping our wings, not our lips. Go Boberz.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 01:38 AM

Exactly so!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 03:40 AM

I have had an interest in politics for many years.
In the UK we had endured a long period of conservative rule, people were sick of Mrs Thatcher, and an ideology which punished the largest and poorest parts of society.....while the rich grew obscenely rich.

Then along came the great white hope a "centre left politician" who was to bring some sort of equality....sound familiar?
Of course it was Mr Blair, took us to war, shamed our nation, and sowed the seeds of the current financial "disaster".

The conservatives are now back, with policies even more draconian, and more importantly with the excuse to impliment them.

Now most grown ups would recognise that this state of affairs is systemic in nature and no matter what particular party is in power, they are confined by the perameters of the system.

If "change" is to be meaningful, this system has to be dismantled and re-constructed in a workable form, but none of the current parties are prepared to let this happen.....in fact we would be slaughtered in our thousands if we even attempted it.

But that should not preclude us from gaining an understanding of what the problem really is and would stop the idiocy of eternally swopping one band of parasites for another even more hypocritical one.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 08:51 AM

Bingo!

Thanks, Ake. Well said.

Okay, so Messrs. Don Firth, TIA, Bobert, and the rest of their "ilk" (in joke on Mudcat) are going to go on repeating their particular loyalty mantra forever and ever, and rushing heroically to the electoral barricades to get another phony Democratic president elected, imagining that that will somehow hold off the Neo-Con hordes...

And Ake and I and the rest of our "ilk" (most of whom live outside the USA) are going to go on repeating our particular mantra forever and ever, which is..."You guys in the USA are being had!"...

;-D

And Dschshunds will continue attempting to steal food off counters beyond their reach, pigs won't fly, and Israel will keep stealing their neighbour's land and killing 100 Palestinians for every Israeli that dies, and the USA will keep trying to relive the glory days of the Roman Empire.

Business as usual.

But let's try to have at least a little fun while we're doing it, okay?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 09:05 AM

Your conservative rule, Ake, compared to ours is quite moderate...

Our conservatives represent the NRA which is in business to sell handguns... There are more handguns owned by private US citizens than owned private and public for the entire rest of the world combined and we have 100,000 people shot every year as a result of it... That's our brand of conservatism...

Our conservatives think that the state should have the right to not only make decisions about women's health but also strap them down against their will and perform medical tests that penetrate her... That's out brand of conservatism...

Our conservatives have no problems selling our government to the highest bidders, be they domestic or foreign, without the voting public having the right to know who it is that is buying up the blocks of advertising time??? As far as our conservatives are concerned it could be al qeada or the Taliban buying chunks of our government... That's out brand of conservatism...

Out conservatives have rigged the deck so that the 1/2 of American people now live at 125% of the official (ha) poverty level or less which represents the highest per capital poverty level of any western so-called civilized country... And after rigging the deck they blame that 1/2 of the population for their plight??? That's our brand of conservatism...

Our conservatives are for denying health care to people who, frankly, cannot afford it and are on record of saying, "yeah, let them die in the streets"... That's our brand of conservatism...

Our conservatives love incarceration and they want it to be as long and as miserable as possible thinking that will teach people to behave better when every study show that the longer the incarceration the higher the recidivist rates??? That's our brand of conservatism...

Our conservatives think that disenfranchising voters who might vote against them is the best way to hold power... 70,000 black voters have been disenfranchised in South Carolina for the sin of being born at home 50, 60, 70 years ago when most black people were born at home... And these voters are people who have had the right to vote all their lives... It's now taken away... That's out brand of conservatism...

Our conservatives think apartheid is peachy in their book as schools are being re-segregated through out the South and in many mid-western states... That's our brand of conservatism...

I mean, I could go on and on, Ake... Unless you live here, you are clueless just how much our conservatives are like the Taliban...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 09:09 AM

Your conservatives are outright neo-Fascists, Bobert. I know it. I lived in upstate (rural) New York for 10 years and I saw it with my own eyes. I thank God I don't live there anymore...though it's a nice looking countryside, that's for sure. A lot of good land down there...too bad about the politics!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: John P
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 10:04 AM

I feel like you're arguing with someone else whom you have mistaken for me...or you think that I am someone very different from whom I actually am. It just doesn't connect.

LH, I'l try to connect the dots for you. Here's a couple small examples of why I and others express irritation/exasperation at you:

Which means: you actually agree with me that people like us CAN'T really do anything about the basic situation...but in the meantime, you'd like to make yourself feel better by just doing a little re-arranging of the deck chairs on the Titanic...just so you can feel like good little progressive who are out there "doing something".

Which is rude bullshit. Or:

Here's a tip: As long as the mighty imperial $ySStem that really runs your country can keep you battling each other in a futile divide over the utterly illusory choice between voting for a corporate-backed Democrat or a corporate-backed Republican...it will have you right where it wants you. Helpless and in its pocket.

Which is ignorant bullshit. And defeatist bullshit. So don't give me your little Bambi-in-the-headlights "Why are you mad at me?" deal. As Bobert says, you need some new material. And you need to learn how to talk politely and individually to the people you're talking to. You are, as has been noted many times, smarter than that. Or else you're the dumbest smart guy around.

When do you begin to get it? One more time, join in on the chorus, boys,

Gay rights aren't a "futile divide over the utterly illusory choice" or "a little re-arranging of the deck chairs".

Reproductive rights aren't a "futile divide over the utterly illusory choice" or "a little re-arranging of the deck chairs".

Separation of church and state isn't a "futile divide over the utterly illusory choice" or "a little re-arranging of the deck chairs".

War isn't a "futile divide over the utterly illusory choice" or "a little re-arranging of the deck chairs".

Income equality isn't a "futile divide over the utterly illusory choice" or "a little re-arranging of the deck chairs".

And when you keep saying they are, you become a REALLY big part of the problem. Reducing these things to being equal with their opposite supports the people who are happy with the status quo. Supposedly independent thinkers who support the idea that the Republican ideas are the same as the Democratic ideas are worse than the blinkered Republicans themselves.

When you keep saying that black is the same as white in such rude terms, people not only see you as part of the problem, but as an unusually irritating part of the problem.

This is how it connects.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 10:13 AM

"Your conservatives are outright neo-Fascists, Bobert. I know it. I lived in upstate (rural) New York for 10 years and I saw it with my own eyes"

And against them apparently we should not "rushing heroically to the electoral barricades"

And those statements only separated by eight minutes.

What the F do you think you are talking about?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: John P
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 10:14 AM

I see no way of avoiding it unless we simply stop talking to one another (and I am not suggesting that we should stop talking to one another).

You could also try talking about the subject at hand instead of running your tired old trip over and over and over. You could try actually talking to the people you're talking to. You seem to have this mistaken idea that you've been joining in the conversation. In short, the way to avoid it is to avoid it.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 10:28 AM

Lot of good land and a lot of good people. The Constitution is a thing of the past, and that was the last remaining barrier protecting folks, average people who want lives of relative safety. The power of the Constitution has been being stripped away for decades, and no one will like the results.

The following may help explain:

""A Presidential Executive Order, whether Constitutional or not, becomes law simply by its publication in the Federal Registry." Congress can still attempt to block "by passing legislation in conflict with it" refusing to fund or enforce the law. Even with that the President has the power of the Veto. Congress can attempt to override the veto but that requires a two-thirds majority. Only two executive orders have ever been overturned.

Here are just a few Executive Orders that would suspend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. These Executive Orders have been on record for nearly 30 years and could be enacted by the stroke of a Presidential pen:

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990 allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995 allows the government to seize and control the communication media.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997 allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000 allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001 allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002 designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003 allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005 allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051 specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310 grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President."


At present there exist approximately 600 to 800 'relocation centers' in the USA controlled by FEMA. Were I you, I would want to know who controls FEMA/DHS/ICE. Call both your Senators and your Congressmen/women and ask. Let me know what your Senators and Congressman/women say. The EOs have been on the books for years. But until now the camps haven't been ready. They are ready now.

I am in agreement with Bobert on one thing: knowledgeable people like him are desperate and for good reason. In this election it is important that Obama be re-elected. But more important will be the elections after--because even if all good guys and gals got in this election--it would not change the balance of power in either the Senate or the House. Without a good Congress, you could have Jesus H Christ hisself in the Oval Office and things would not improve. I don't think there is sufficient time for that to occur. The second-to-last nail in the coffin is suspension of habeas corpus. The last nail will be a situation of extreme national emergency, either real or fabricated. IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: John P
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 10:55 AM

Thanks, 999. That's one of the reasons I almost always vote for Democrats, even though I don't consider myself a Democrat (for all the reaons LH et al have been expounding). I can easily see our current crop of Republicans carrying out the take-over scenario you describe. I can't see the Democrats doing it.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 11:04 AM

Interesting that you bring up "habeas corpus", brucie because according the the Supreme Thugs with their "Citizen's United" you can be accused of anything your accusers want to accuse you of having done or not done and you don't have the right to even know who the accusers are or, umless you have as much $$$ as these secret accusers are, the means to defend yourself???

That is 100% F'd up!!!

Impeach Alito and Roberts for lieing in their Senate Confirmation hearings... They are not judges... They are crooks and nothing but partisan water boys...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 12:06 PM

Hear I go rushing to the barricades again...

"The Pennsylvania House of Representatives is poised to pass HB 1077, which requires all women seeking an abortion to be subjected to a mandatory ultrasound at least 24 hours prior to having the abortion.

The bill would subject women to invasive, transvaginal ultrasounds, requires the ultrasound screen to be aimed toward the woman's face, and requires that she deliver a print of the image to her physician in order to have the procedure.

This bill operates under the guise that women aren't smart enough to understand their own bodies. The Pennsylvania Medical Society and other medical groups have already come out in opposition to this incredible violation of the physician/patient relationship."

Guess which party introduced and is pushing this. G'head, guess.

Just because our political system is thoroughly corrupted (thanks Supremes) should we not oppose this crap?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 12:51 PM

There are good arguments against the promotion of homosexuality in our society
There are two sides to the abortion issue.
Complete separation of church and state may make society even more empty and easier prey than it is at present.

War and income inequality are cornerstones of the system you seek to support.

You are a "one trick pony"......forget your obsession, try to understand that this battle is not about the ridiculous issue of "gay rights"......but survival.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 01:16 PM

John J, Bobert and TIA, thank you.

"Just because our political system is thoroughly corrupted (thanks Supremes) should we not oppose this crap?"

The question is rhetorical, but it's a damned good one. For six years I have been thinking about how best (most effectively) to oppose this. I have concluded it's lots simpler than any of us know. CONTAIN THEIR POWER!

The easiest way to defeat a soldier with a night sight is to strike a match. Light on the subject! His eyes will be blinded for long enough that you can get out of Dodge.

In this instance, were I an American, I would be mobilizing my friends of like concern all across the USA and asking them to call their Congressmen/women, Senators and Governors (whom I understand also have the 'right' to invoke Executive Orders that pertain to their State).

Call about what?

1) Well, call about he question I think is of paramount importance: Who controls FEMA? Who controls DHS? Who controls ICE? It does not matter whether your representatives are Republicans, Democrats or Independents. What matters is the call. They will know that YOU know.

2) You will require a Bill before your Legislative bodies that rescinds all Executive Orders to date that pertain to the Constitution, and disallows any in future that infringe, alter the intent or change the meaning of the Constitution if even ONE elected member of the House or Senate abstains from voting or votes against it.

3) When is the time to begin this? NOW!

It is unwise to allow your adversary to choose the time and place of 'battle'. Your opponent will choose a time propitious to himself and his efforts. Reacting to the situation will, in this scenario, mean you have waited too long. MAKE this the topic of discussion in America, but soon, like in the next few days. These bastards CAN be beat, but they won't be unless they are fought against by YOU.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 05:09 PM

"John J, Bobert and TIA, thank you."

John P, that is twice I have messed up your name. The other was when I referred to you as John B. However, I'm getting better in that the J is closer to the P than the B was.

My apologies.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 05:54 PM

Here's an idea: For every abortion there is a corresponding castration of the father...

End of discussion...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 10:52 PM

Could you elaborate on that some, Bobert?

John P - I wasn't being a "deer in the headlights". I was being mildly humorous. You and I actually agree about a great deal, but you only notice the parts of my posts that you don't agree with, and you get REALLY UPSET ABOUT THEM! Don't. It's bad for your health.

Nothing any of us say here is worth getting upset about or losing any sleep over. It's just a bunch of reaction-counter-reaction bla bla on a transitory keyboard, and it won't change anything, so don't sweat it. I'm not upset about you. I can't see any use in you being upset about me.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 11:07 PM

Yeah, LH... Woman cannot get pregnant by themselves, right???

Yet when the chips are down it is the woman who has to make the though choice...

The father??? Gets off Scott free... No repercussions... He can go outg and knock up another 100 women who will be trashed by the right wing...

No!!!

If the baby is so fuck0ing important than if it is to be aborted and in so invading a woman's body then, hey, the other side of the coin is the father who was the other 1/2 of the deal...

Make the father's equally responsible: Castration!!!

End of discussion... End of men saying that women are the quilty... End of Taliban mindset...

Castration!!!

yeah, if we're going to play Taliban than play it both ways!!!

End of discussion... End of Republicans punishing women... End!!!

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 11:26 PM

Okay. I see your point.

Does this mean that all Republicans hate women?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 11:50 PM

I will answer for Bobert (but he can also answer for himself if he wishes).

An analogy:

Not all Republicans are ignorant and racist, but if you are ignorant and racist, you are more likely to be Republican.

Not all Republicans hate (or perhaps more accurately - have no respect for) women, but if you have no respect for women, you are more likely to be Republican.

Did I get that about right Bobzers?

And this is an example of where the "both sides are guilty" shit breaks down. This is not a "two sides of the coin" difference. It is a fundamental, unequatable difference. Thus, even though I have had the shits of Obama's capitulation tactics, and wish someone else where running for Prez, your goddam right I will run to the barricades to keep those ignorant jerks and their anti-woman health care laws out of my daughters' vaginas.

And I am not upset at you or losing sleep over you (no offense).

Santorum? Perhaps I am...




Just one more. On the subject of the Koran burnings in Afghanistan, Santorum said on one of the Sunday News shows..."I'm not sure the President should be apologizing for something that was a mistake..."

What?!?! I hope Santorum's wife kicks the shit out of him for having that attitude. Yup, never apologize unless you *meant* to do it, because then you have no reason to apologize, or...oh hell never mind...it's pure drivel.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 11:59 PM

Hey, guess what, TIA? I agree with all that stuff you just posted.

I've always said the Republicans were way worse than the Democrats.

I've never said they were equal in their respective iniquity.

I fairly much detest the Democrats (the party, I mean)...yes...but I ABSOLUTELY HATE the F-ing Republicans (the party, I mean) to the very marrow of my bones. I consider them as I would the Nazi Party.

We agree!!! Smile! It's good for your health. ;-D

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: John P
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 08:50 AM

And this is an example of where the "both sides are guilty" shit breaks down. This is not a "two sides of the coin" difference.

Hey, guess what, TIA? I agree with all that stuff you just posted.

. . . but in the meantime, you'd like to make yourself feel better by just doing a little re-arranging of the deck chairs on the Titanic...just so you can feel like good little progressive who are out there "doing something". . . . As long as the mighty imperial $ySStem that really runs your country can keep you battling each other in a futile divide over the utterly illusory choice . . .

Hmm, perhaps you don't agree with everything she just posted, LH?

By the way, another annoying thing about your conversational skills is your penchant for deciding and then telling people what's going on in their own heads and why it's making them say the things they say.

I, also, am not upset or losing sleep over you. You are irritating, that's all. And you are preaching a message that supports the people who want to control my life. Until you can get that through your head -- and do something about it -- you will continue to have people responding badly to you in conversations where you basically agree with what they are saying.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 10:57 AM

Yeah, TIA, you got it about right and I'm sticking with my idea of 1 abortion = 1 castration... This will end this Taliban thinking that way too many Republicans are into...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 12:13 PM

Have any of you called your senators and congressmen/women to ask who controls FEMA/DHS/ICE? If so, what have you been told?

I'm getting the distinct feeling people are afraid to speak with their representatives about it. If so--and I don't blame you--doesn't THAT tell y'all something?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 01:31 PM

I know that something is buggin' you about these, bruice, so spill the beans... BTW, FEMA is part of DHS and Janet Napolitano is Secretary of DHS...

But if you have something, spill it...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Stringsinger
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 01:52 PM

Fortunately, the US today has an alternative to its corruption and war-mongering, Bernie Sanders, in the Senate, Barbara Lee in the House, Kucinich, John Lewis of Georgia but the main impetus for social change lies with the Occupy Wall Street Movement which is dedicating itself to an alternative democracy in opposition to the corruption in Washington.

In the Occupy movement, we are all leaders and followers. The General Assembly is a tribute to what real democracy looks like and there is a revolution going on today in the US that can replace the hardened political process that we see in the Executive Branch, the Senate, Congress, and Supreme Court.

Occupy has already influenced the political process here and will continue to do so. Young people all over the world have had a taste of what genuine activism can bring from Egypt to Wall Street and it will only grow stronger.

It may not take the same form as it has now but will become more potent in future years.
Because this is true, the US is not finished by any means. Our Constitution is still vibrant and flexible.

The truth doesn't lie in party politics or existing government that is controlled by corporations, energy, MIC, or Citizens United rulings.

Resistance is a fact of American democracy today as it was in Poland under Communist dictatorship or Mubarak's domination.

You will also see the growth of trade unionism in the US when workers own their condition.

There will be struggles but growth.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 04:19 PM

I do not support the people who want to control your life, John.

The only person I can think of in USA politics whom I support without reservation is Dennis Kucinich. He does not want to control your life. I am deeply and fundamentally opposed to ALL the people who want to control your life...and mine...simply to enrich themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 04:27 PM

And I do support the Occupy movement.

I do not support the big political parties, because I know who they work for...not for you and me, that's for sure! There is occasionally an individual candidate within one of the political parties who I will support. Dennis Kucinich is one such. I don't support him on account of his Democratic party affiliation, but on account of his stated ideals and his record while in office.

I would support him no matter what party he was in...because of who and what he is.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 04:57 PM

Support him, yes. But knowing that he hasn't a ghost of a chance of becoming President?

And even if he DID somehow become president, he would run into the same stone wall that Barack Obama did?

Barack Obama is fine. What we need to do is replace Congress!

(Elementary, my dear Little Hawk.)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 06:49 PM

Does anyone know WHO controls the organizations I mentioned, and has ANYone called?

Jesus fucking Christ, answer the question! I have been asking for three FUCKING YEARS!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 06:54 PM

Have any of you called your senators and congressmen/women to ask who controls FEMA/DHS/ICE? If so, what have you been told?

I'm getting the distinct feeling people are afraid to speak with their representatives about it. If so--and I don't blame you--doesn't THAT tell y'all something?



Talk is cheap, 'cept when ya gotta make the call.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 07:16 PM

DHS is controlled by various factions and people... Ya' have to remember that it was several existing agencies pulled into one with a cabinet level Secretary in Janet Napolitano... The President has some ultimate control, however, Congress has it fingers in the pie along with career bureaucrats...

I mean, it ain't some "shadow government", brucie...

What am I missing in your question???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 10:38 PM

999-
Not to get you even more upset, but here's (an absolutley true) anecdote...

I am a scientist (anyone surprised?) doing research in physics, aimed at detecting hiddent objects.

Did some online (Jstor, ISI, etc.) research into IEDs, and within 24 hours, I got a call from DHS asking why I was visiting various websites. No shit. Really happened. Big Brother is not just watching, he has his hand around your prick...(and they just heard/read me saying that). Hi boys!!!!! It's TIA typing IED again. Call me!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 10:54 PM

Dear Guys,

Am I to understand by these remarks that

1) no one has dared call a representative?

2) I should fuck off?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 11:00 PM

Callin' my North Carolina representative is a waste of time... I'd be better off asking a rock...

What's the deal, brucie???

Seriously, man???

Where are you going with this??? Gimme a clue and I'll help... PM me a clue and I'll help... Send me a postcard and I'll help...

Sorry... I am clueless on this one???

B???

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Songwronger
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 11:46 PM

So what's the question? Who runs the terror network in America?

We have two governments--our traditional elected government, and the shadow government. "Shadow government" is not a conspiracist term. It an acknowledged fact.

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oG7lTtqU1PjWIAg1VXNyoA?p=jack+brooks+rex+84&fr2=sb-top&fr=yfp-t-701&type_param=

Yahoo links to congressman Jack Brooks in a congressional session in 1987. Arch-traitor Ollie North was involved in setting up a secret arrest and detention program called Rex 84, and when Brooks asked about it, North and Inouye wouldn't answer his questions. Look at that clip. Brooks is saying a secret government was front page national news that day, yet North refused to talk about it. 25 years ago.

Rex 84 was set up to deal with "illegals" from Mexico. Round them up and detain them. Those plans have blossomed to the point where now Obama says that he can kill or "disappear" any American he deems to be a "terrorist." And the Dept of Defense and Haliburton are hiring "internment and relocation specialists" for FEMA camps.

Anyway, the US has 2 governments, and the shadow government is taking over the elected government. All our candidates are CIA spooks, like the Bushes, Obama, Clinton.

What can be done....be aware that your local sheriff is the ultimate authority in your county. Your sheriff has more power in your county than the president of the U.S. Talk to your sheriff and make sure he's aware of this. There are lots of sheriffs' organizations on the internet that explain and promote this stuff. I think there are 2600 counties and parishes in the U.S., so that's 2,600 people who can overrule the president on anything. Anything. Make sure your sheriff is aware of the constitutional protections his people have, and make him aware of illegal actions like the NDAA, PATRIOT Act and so on.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 12:07 AM

The shadow government *is* the 1%.

And your sheriff and DHS already have drones (UAVs) that make sure you toe the line.

Obama is not stopping it, but I'd rather have him than Santorum doing the same *plus* sticking a probe up my daughters' vaginas in the name of purity.

If I can choose to live in 1984 plus Handmaid's Tale or just 1984, I will rush to the barricades for 1984 (to F Handmaid's Tale) and at every opportunity I will also rush to the barricades to fight 1984.

No offense LH, but are you seriously advocating that we should not fight because it is hopeless (or that we should vote for an admirable no-chance-in-hell purely on principle while the probes go up the vaginas? I really do want to understand the philosophy behind your disdain.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 02:02 AM

I don't get this negative attitude you have toward me personally, TIA. I agree with you on all these concerns you are mentioning in your last post. I cannot fathom how you think I don't agree with you or what the hell you are talking about regarding my supposed "disdain" (for what???). I disdain the 2 big political parties...yes!...because they've sold out to lobbyists. I don't disdain YOU.

It was I who asked Bobert if he'd read Naomi Klein's "The Shock Doctrine", because I think it's an absolutely brilliant book and expose' that everyone should read. You apparently think so too. Where the hell do you think we disagree on that?

Where do you think I'm telling you to "give up"? I am NOT telling you to give up.

I'm not saying you should vote for Kucinich for president! There's utterly no chance of him becoming president in corporate Amerika. I'm saying you could contribute to getting him re-elected in his present riding, for Chrissake!

They have gerrymandered his old riding so as to deprive him of many votes, and they are slandering him on TV with all kinds of utterly false accusations. He needs help right NOW from many other Americans to get re-elected to the House of Representatives! Not to the presidency.

Now, understand: unlike you, I am not an American. I don't live in the USA. And thank God for that! If I did, I'd be trying to get out to some other country if I possibly could. I don't doubt that "they" (you know who) called you up about those websites you were visiting.

And, yes, the 1% IS your shadow government. But it is not my position to tell YOU or anyone else in the USA what to do about it. That you have to decide for yourself. If you wish to openly fight them (in what manner?)...that's your decision. And you have to decide how you're going to do it. I am not going to advise you one way or the other about it, because only you can make a decision like that. I would not presume to advise you on a matter that could well cost you your life.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 02:07 AM

I got a little charged up there. But not because I have anything against you, TIA. I just don't enjoy being extremely misunderstood as regards both my motivations and my intentions. I am not against you. Matter of fact, it looks to me like we are very much on the same side.

But I don't live in the USA. That puts us in a rather different spot in a number of respects.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 05:30 AM

Well, FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency) and ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) are now part of the Department of Homeland Security, which was formed in 2002. Immigration came from the Department of Justice, Customs from Treasury, and FEMA had been an independent agency.

Former Arizona Governor Janet Napolitano has been United States Secretary of Homeland Security since January, 2009. She was appointed by President Barack Obama and confirmed by the U.S. Senate. It seems to me that she's doing a pretty good job.

Over a period of 30 years, I did security clearance investigations on hundreds of employees of Customs, Immigration, and FEMA - including people at the highest levels of management. With few exceptions, these employees were decent people doing a pretty good job, dedicated to serving the public. Nonetheless, there were lots of things I didn't like about aspects of these agencies, particularly Immigration. I'm not likely to believe any conspiracy theories about these agencies, though. They had normal problems, nothing disastrous.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 08:35 AM

Yeah, Joe, I purdy much posted that already... The DHS is more a reshuffling than anything new...The Coast Guard, if I am not mistaken, is also now under DHS...


B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: John P
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 09:34 AM

Little Hawk, it's not about you personally. For my part, I like you and find you mostly charming and witty. The reason people keep picking at you is because you, on every political thread you can shoehorn it into, go on about how we're all a bunch of automatons who are being lead around by the nose and whose struggles are manufactured by the ruling rich corporations to keep us busy while they raid the henhouse. You always manage to mention how the Republicans and the Democrats are all the same. And that's the problem. I said this yesterday without getting any response from you: when you, an intelligent and erudite man with advanced writing skills and an air of being fair an balanced, write that the politicians are all the same and that issues of the day are unimportant, you are in support of the people who want to take over our lives. A basic part of their lie is that we do the same things they do. They want us to believe that the problems in Congress are due to partisanship and not to obstructive Republicans, etc etc. Every time someone like you makes the claims you make, their basic lie gets a boost in believability.

We all know you're a nice, thoughtful person. We all know you basically agree with us on these issues. We all also know that you regularly denigrate the issues that have huge impacts on our lives as well as our efforts to do something about them.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: pdq
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 10:16 AM

Here is a great place to find out...


                                                                         ...what departments went into making Homeland Security

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 11:30 AM

Hmmm. Okay, John. Perhaps I, in my deep frustration with what's going on in the world, am just getting a bit carried away at times with my own rhetoric here. That tends to happen when a person gets angry, and I get very angry at what's going on in the halls of power all across this world.

I've been reading "The Shock Doctrine" and it's been making me really angry about what happened down in Latin America, starting on September 11, 1973 with the violent overthrow of the democratically elected Allende government in Chile by a group of Army officers...then being followed by other military takeovers in Brazil, Argentina, and Uruguay over the next decade. Those countries were prosperous and happy before the military takeovers, with a rapidly growing middle class and rapidly improving economies that benefited the entire public. They had democratically elected governments which were strongly supported by the vast majority of citizens.

After the coups, all of which were orchestrated by alumni of Milton Friedman's Chicago School of Economics and put into motion by well-trained CIA agents backed by thugs in the Latin American military forces of the respective countries, those countries faced mass arrests, torture of hundreds of thousands of innocent citizens, execution/disappearance of tens of thousands, and the establishment of military dictatorships which were mostly praised in the USA mass media at the time. This was supposedly done to establish FREEDOM!

Talk about employing the BIG LIE principle! And who did those takeovers benefit? They benefited a tiny rich elite, they impoverished the rest of the public, and they opened the door to privatization of public industries and institutions and takeover of those industries and national resources by a consortium of huge American corporations!

It's been the organized rape of the world for the sake of corporate profits. It's been going on since the end of WWII (it started off in Iran with a CIA-backed coup against a democratically elected secular government). No American president has stood up to stop it.

This enrages me. Rage drives people sometimes to bitter and harsh rhetoric.

If my harsh rhetoric has offended any of you, I regret it. My anger is not aimed at you, it's aimed at the overall system we live under.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 01:06 PM

They all support that system Little Hawk and any attack on it is perceived as an attack on them personally.

You have absolutely nothing to apologise for, rather we should be commending you on your insight.

Keep flying free!!    :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 05:51 PM

Oh Bull, Ake...

I agree wholeheartedly with John... The Republican PR machine has put out this idea that both parties are guilty and that there is rampant partisanship on both sides... That is mythology... There is rampant partisanship on one side but if the Republican PR folks can get enough parrots on board to repeat their BIG LIE then they have leveled the palying field in the eyes of the voters and will not be punished for their bad behavior/s...

Exhibit A: During the debt ceiling slobber-knocker that the Republicans ***manufactured*** the following occurred:

1. The Republicans demanded a "large deal"

2. Obama and the Dems said, "Okay, let's do it"

3. The the Republicans demanded that medicare and Social Security be on the table.

4. Obama and the Dems said, "okay, let's do it"

5. The the Republicans said, "Ya'll give eeverything and we ain't giving you shit... Not one dime!!!"

6. Then the United States credit rating was down-graded...

7. Then the Repubs demanded a short deal...

8. Obama and the Dems said, "Okay, let's do it"

This is purdy much what has been going on since Obama was elected... Dems have given and given and given and the Repubs have taken and taken and taken...

And now they want everyone to think that both side have misbehaved???

Give my ol' hillbilly butt a break... And no... I don't wnat to buy your friggin' bridge, either...

Sheesh...

And for all the "Both Sides Parrots"??? Bite me!!!

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 06:32 PM

Ake's solution to the problems of the world is to storm the Winter Palace.

It's been done, Ake. What it produced was Joe Stalin and the Soviet Union. Didn't work out real well, did it?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 07:04 PM

BTW...

...200...

B~